I have clicked on your link twice and can't find the play you mentioned.
The kid picks up a first down and you guys are complaining. Un--freaking--real!!
We had Timid here, we had Frye here, we had Colt here, we had BQ here, we had Weeden here and all I heard was excuses for their bad play. We get a kid who plays well and people complain about him picking up a freaking first down.
All were saying is while yes, the desired first down got achieved, it would've been better if he tossed it to the FB.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
7 for 11 w/2 drops and one bad route. Another 27 on the ground. Covered the coaches' butts when the personnel grouping was wrong. Played behind an OL that was terrible. And you guys criticize him?
And aren't you the same guys who praised Weeden and made excuse after excuse for him and reached time after time to praise him? Now, you are making excuses for Manziel's good play and finding reasons to bash him.
Quote: And if he throws it to the backup FB, and he drops it..
Some people will complain saying he should of just ran it.
That too. I just think some people have a hard time staying unbiased with certain players on this board. Slam one, worship the other.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Who said he did nothing wrong. He got the freaking first down and people are complaining. You don't get where I am coming from on this one? And Swish.......before you go crazy again, I was one of Hoyer's biggest pimps last year.
I could care less who wins the job. I just want the best player to play. I am getting a strong feeling that there are a lot of people who don't like JM and they are rooting against him and looking for every negative they can. The kid picks up a first down and we complain? Really?
I thought he made the right play. It was safer. He had a guy coming in his face. It was a inexperienced FB on the route. There was no way the defender was going to tackle him for a loss. Sheesh.
Now, if you guys wanna complain about Manziel.........you can go to the read/option on his first drive where he kept it on 3rd and 2. Bad read. There.......I just handed it to you haters on a silver platter. Rip him all you want for that move.
Oh I know you was pimping him hard. I remember you being one of the first ones saying how when he got injured in that buffalo game we could just feel the energy from the team disappear.
Look bro, I absolutely want JM to win the job. But as a browns fan I just want whoever is the best QB out there. Which is why people are breaking Manziel down.
I believe the 1st down would've been achieved regardless if he three or ran. I just think that FB would've gained a few more yards overall. I don't think it was a bad play at all. Very good one actually.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Now, if you guys wanna complain about Manziel.........you can go to the read/option on his first drive where he kept it on 3rd and 2. Bad read. There.......I just handed it to you haters on a silver platter. Rip him all you want for that move.
He actually read it correctly, as the Dlineman went inside for the RB.
There were just too many second level guys.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
I do think some people are rooting against him, though. Not you, but some are. I've been around too long to not notice things like that.
Now, w/all that said...............JM might come out and lay an egg this week and Hoyer might work wonders w/the twos.
Who knows?
Here's my thing with regards to JM. You might agree might not
I absolutely hate the fact that josh Gordon put the browns In a situation that I don't want Manziel to see the field if he isn't gonna be here this season.
Here's my reasoning. The best thing for a rookie QB is a strong run game and a good defense right? IMO what's equally important is a BOSS WR. The guy that you know if you throw it in the general area, he's more likely than not gonna come down with it. Without JG, man our wr's are horrible.
I dot want us to put Manziel in a situation that Sam Bradford had. Sorry ass receivers for years. Can't build trust cause they're all trash and gotta swap em out every year.
Let's be real. Cameron benefited TREMENDOUSLY from Gordon, and vise versa. It's just hard when either one of them are not on the field, but Gordon being gone for the year is just gonna hurt. We potentially have this year no true #1 WR, 2 questionable #2's, a good slot, and one beast TE.
I just feel all too often Manziel is gonna have to take off on foot, and he might get killed this year because of it if he starts.
Last edited by Swish; 08/11/1408:47 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
That is sound logic. Yeah, I gave you a compliment.
You could be right, but I look at it that our WRs are poor w/out Gordon and Manziel is capable of making more plays out of nothing than Hoyer can. He extends plays, he makes people miss, he runs for first downs, etc. I think he is better equipped to compensate for poor WR play than Hoyer is.
And I never really bought into how guys got ruined by poor talent, i.e. Timid, Carr, etc. I just think they sucked.
But, I understand your logic and it is sound. Not sure who is right, but it's a good discussion.
Quote: I am getting a strong feeling that there are a lot of people who don't like JM and they are rooting against him and looking for every negative they can. The kid picks up a first down and we complain? Really?
I basically agree, although I think it's symptomatic of something deeper and less specific to Manziel. I call it "the slick syndrome." Some people are wired such that they get pleasure out of complaining, criticizing, and indulging gloom-and-doom thinking. I have a prediction: if the Browns are ever a perennial playoff team, posters will still be complaining, criticizing, and engaging in the same doom-and-gloom thinking they do now when the Browns are losers. It's not about the Browns; it's a predisposition for pessimism and negativity.
Read most of the posts on here and it looks fairly split 50% willing to go all in or bust with JM and the rest of us who see JM as the future, a solid veteran QB in Hoyer, and after decades of inferior QB play, willing to take the "patient" approach and not rush the kid. He's only 21. Personally I'd like to see him in there QB'ing for the Browns as long as Brady and Manning have been for their Team(s). That is not going to happen if Johnny keeps playing like he did in college. If he seeks out hits with the D like he did on that first series, going up against NFL 1's like Orakpo, Meriweather, Golston, Kearse, and Porter? He will definitely learn there is another level of speed between the one's and two's.
Quote: JM showed why he will be special. He also showed why the coaches really wishes that he sit for a while at least - too bad Pettine might get pressured to give the nod to JM. If Kosar, Eli, others can sit a while prior to their starts...I think they were more ready than JM.
I wouldn't mind letting JM get the first string start in the next pre-season for 2 reasons;
1- Give Johnny a taste of just how much faster the ones run than the two's do. See if he makes the same mistakes as he did in the first game or if he learned from them.
2- And this is my real interest, how much better does Hoyer make the two's play/look. Can he be the Brady/Manning type that can get second string players to play above their potential? That's the leadership I want in any of my QB's. Make those around you better.
just my take. As always, Go Browns
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
Quote: I am getting a strong feeling that there are a lot of people who don't like JM and they are rooting against him and looking for every negative they can. The kid picks up a first down and we complain? Really?
I basically agree, although I think it's symptomatic of something deeper and less specific to Manziel. I call it "the slick syndrome." Some people are wired such that they get pleasure out of complaining, criticizing, and indulging gloom-and-doom thinking. I have a prediction: if the Browns are ever a perennial playoff team, posters will still be complaining, criticizing, and engaging in the same doom-and-gloom thinking they do now when the Browns are losers. It's not about the Browns; it's a predisposition for pessimism and negativity.
our records since 99 hasn't exactly helped.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Hmmmm...............nice post. I am not sure if I totally agree w/you, but damn man, that was a logical post that has me thinking. I like when other posters make me think. I realize some don't like to think...........their opinions are set in stone and don't you dare mess w/them...........but, I think you brought up some very interesting points to contemplate.
I had to laugh NFLN criticized Johny for the roll out and not throwing the ball to the fullback. Then they showed Hoyer running the exact same play and said this is how you do it and the full back dropped the damn ball!!!! I saw that on my break earlier and couldnt wait to get on here and share that one. Should have been this is why you dont throw it to the fullback lol
Yeah.............if he throws it.....fine. If he doesn't, fine. I don't see what the big deal was? I still think that the defender crossed his face when Agnew broke open. I would have tucked it and ran for the first if I had JM's speed. Why risk a tip, a pick, or a drop?
Man, it's bad when guys are criticizing a first down.
Seems like so much Manziel hatred. Like people want him to fail.
I actually welcome this change from the blind optimism that was surrounding Frye, Quinn and Weeden. Those guys were horrible, but only a few of us had the objective perspective to call it out right away.
Manziel looks (if he can learn to slide ) like he is going to be a player in this league. A rookie, who supposedly partying his butt of and didn't know the playbook...he looked ok, not great, but clearly more talented than that stiff we had back there last season.
I am rooting my ass off for Johnny, and for Brian as well, BUT anybody heaping praise on the kid after a pre-season game playing against a very vinilla defense needs to have their head examined bro. Weeden went 14 for 17 for Dallas last week (I think not 100 percent sure on that) He must be on his way to an all pro season
Quote: 7 for 11 w/2 drops and one bad route. Another 27 on the ground. Covered the coaches' butts when the personnel grouping was wrong. Played behind an OL that was terrible. And you guys criticize him?
And aren't you the same guys who praised Weeden and made excuse after excuse for him and reached time after time to praise him? Now, you are making excuses for Manziel's good play and finding reasons to bash him.
Quote: I am getting a strong feeling that there are a lot of people who don't like JM and they are rooting against him and looking for every negative they can. The kid picks up a first down and we complain? Really?
I basically agree, although I think it's symptomatic of something deeper and less specific to Manziel. I call it "the slick syndrome." Some people are wired such that they get pleasure out of complaining, criticizing, and indulging gloom-and-doom thinking. I have a prediction: if the Browns are ever a perennial playoff team, posters will still be complaining, criticizing, and engaging in the same doom-and-gloom thinking they do now when the Browns are losers. It's not about the Browns; it's a predisposition for pessimism and negativity.
No offense...but I think you are full of crap most of the time. However, this post was spot on. You can take it to the bank...when we start winning, there will still be complainers. It will easily be forgotten how long it took for us to get to that point. I have an employee that works for me who is a Patriot fan...he complains about Brady on a weekly basis. I have a close friend who is a 9er fan who was in favor of trading Harbaugh. It amazes me how quickly people forget the struggles. No perspective at all. There will be people on this board like that guaranteed. They don't want to win with a druggie or a showboat or a coach with a shaved head. It will be something.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Quote: At some point...JM will start and JG will be back on the field, this year. There is too much capital wrapped up in not doing both of these things.
JMO But the NFL could give a crap about Josh or the Browns. If josh avoids a suspension it is only because the NFL was ruled against or because they thought they would lose face with the ruling.
Quote: At some point...JM will start and JG will be back on the field, this year. There is too much capital wrapped up in not doing both of these things.
JMO But the NFL could give a crap about Josh or the Browns. If josh avoids a suspension it is only because the NFL was ruled against or because they thought they would lose face with the ruling.
If there's anything the NFL loves more than handing out suspensions.
Its marketing.
Johnny Football throwing to Gordon for TDs. Bringing the Browns back to prominence. That's marketable. That's money.
Its all about money.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
But you can't suspend a guy 2 games for publicly assaulting his wife, then suspend a guy a year for pot.. especially with what's come out regards to the testing, and the fact that they will most likely be changing their testing..
If Gordon gets more than 6 games I'll be shocked.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
But you can't suspend a guy 2 games for publicly assaulting his wife, then suspend a guy a year for pot.. especially with what's come out regards to the testing, and the fact that they will most likely be changing their testing..
If Gordon gets more than 6 games I'll be shocked.
There are the rules, how they are written, and what they cover. One cannot adequately and fairly compare Gordon and his multiple failed drug tests to Rice and his conduct penalty, not because of what's right and wrong, but because of how the various infractions have fallen.
Basing what they'll do with Gordon off of what they've done with Rice...that's a primrose-path, man.
You do believe they'll go lenient on Gordon, at least in some part, because he's a marketable player with Manziel. I whole-heartedly disagree.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
I think that Gordon will get off with less than a year long suspension because I think that he has a good case. Throw in that NFL policy and Ohio employment laws are in conflict makes it easier for him to win, IMHO. (this assumes that facts are as reported regarding the test results of the A and B samples)
I don't think that anything else goes into the equation. I think that either the case is won of its merits, or it is not.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
If Gordon gets less than 6 games I'll be shocked. I think 8 games is the punishment.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Yep a lot of the same thoughts there - actually I would love to see JM with the #1 OL he should have a different environment then with that OL - I mean an OG was playing LT. One play I saw Gilkey take off to the right as if it was a OZB scheme but all the rest were not moving laterally. I'm guessing he missed the call by the center even though he is right next to him or didn't know the primary assignment on that play call. Some DT shot through the open gap and destroyed our RB of course the announcers praised the DT and didn't say a peep about Gilkey
Back to JM, Vers...my peeve with the JM decision is not with the result. Just the decision to run - he opted to that way too often for me. In a 16 game season - he is going to get seriously hurt. Possibly if he was 250ish like Big Ben or Cam it would be different. But its not like he's fragile and he is tough as nails. It just increases the odds for me. I want him to take off when he DOESN't have any other option. Usually that means more space for him. Not because I don't think he cannot run and make positive yards. I wish only to cut down the odds of INJURY. Look at Hoyer last year - yeah freak slide. I don't wish Big Surgery for the kid this early in his career.
There is a fine line with achieving success and Executing the offense with Precision. As long as Hoyer can be that "BRIDGE" QB I would want JM to learn and rid himself of some of the bad reactions he makes on the field.
As noted before several times - I wanted JM here! For over a year. Now that he is here. I want that GREAT GREAT QB we deserve...so I would love to get him as close to perfection as we can before throwing him out there. jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
There may a debate in some circles about who the Cleveland Browns starting quarterback should be, but to voters in an ESPN SportsNation poll there is no question.
The poll asked simply: Who should start at quarterback for the Browns in their season opener, Brian Hoyer or Johnny Manziel?
The results were surprisingly and overwhelmingly one-sided: Brian Hoyer should start.
Fifty-eight percent of voters favored Hoyer over Manziel.
The only state Manziel won was his home state of Texas, but that was even close with Manziel getting 53 percent and Hoyer 47 percent.
In Ohio, the vote was even more one-sided: Hoyer received 67 percent of the vote, with more than 1,800 voting.
Clearly interest in Manziel, while real, has not translated into the expectation he should be the immediate starter. Voters favor the veteran over the rookie.
The most important, vote, though, has yet to be cast. That belongs to Browns coach Mike Pettine, who is expected to reveal his choice next week.
As of early this morning, more than 35,000 votes had been cast.
If you had asked me before training camp, I would have voted for Hoyer. Now I am more split, and am probably 70/30 in favor of starting Manziel. I would guess that other people may have had a similar feeling about the position.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I don't knock Johnny Football for the play where he ran while not throwing to Agnew. But it does bring up a point of concern for me which I believe will lessen with experience.
My concern is I don't want to see him run the ball while other options are available. IMO, the more he runs with the ball, the higher the odds of an injury. I know he will use his legs and it's a part of his game and skill set.
I just believe I, along with other fans, want to see him use targets when they are available to him. There are concerns he will run without going through his progressions. I saw a little of that in the game. I'm fully aware that he is a very young and raw QB. As are all rookie QB's to some extent. So there will be a learning curve.
That's why I don't see this single play as a big issue. At the same time I understand the fans having concerns about him running more than needed and getting hurt in the process. I see it more of a concern about Johnny Football than a knock on the guy. People don't want to see him get hurt and hope to see him instead use available targets.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
) like he is going to be a player in this league. A rookie, who supposedly partying his butt of and didn't know the playbook...he looked ok, not great, but clearly more talented than that stiff we had back there last season. 
