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I don't knock Johnny Football for the play where he ran while not throwing to Agnew. But it does bring up a point of concern for me which I believe will lessen with experience.
My concern is I don't want to see him run the ball while other options are available. IMO, the more he runs with the ball, the higher the odds of an injury. I know he will use his legs and it's a part of his game and skill set.
I just believe I, along with other fans, want to see him use targets when they are available to him. There are concerns he will run without going through his progressions. I saw a little of that in the game. I'm fully aware that he is a very young and raw QB. As are all rookie QB's to some extent. So there will be a learning curve.
That's why I don't see this single play as a big issue. At the same time I understand the fans having concerns about him running more than needed and getting hurt in the process. I see it more of a concern about Johnny Football than a knock on the guy. People don't want to see him get hurt and hope to see him instead use available targets.
JMHO
Agreed ... What was the play designed to do? He should of thrown it, that was what the play and situation called for doing. Dont wanna hear if's on who would or would not catch it. Thats a lame basis for your argument.
I have been holding back on commenting on JM since he was drafted on this board because of my bias against him coming out of college. And for those starstruck by Johnny Football and for those haters. Manziel has been better then I expected and more mature then I hoped he be.
I dont care about his life off the field. He's committed no crimes. He just needs to learn to tone it down some and realize the security in privacy.
As far as him on the field, Much better than Weeden for starts. He played well in his first preseason game, not great and it was against 2's not 1's. I am very much impressed with his progress since last year, His mechanics are better, it appears he is going through progressions better, and a much quicker release but the fundamental point I'm trying to make is HE IS NOT READY YET. There is a lot more in presnap decisions and playbook that needs catching up.
PPL on here are ready to anoint the guy off of 1 preseason game. Is he intriguing? yes. Will he be the QB of the future for us? its beginning to look that way. But lets not ruin the kid by throwing him to the wolves of the NFL before he's ready. He still has a lot to learn upstairs about the game.
If I were Pettine I would not even be thinking of starting him until after the bye week. Dependent upon Hoyers play of course.
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Overwhelmingly one sided.
58%
That is exactly what I was thinking 
Joe Thomas #73
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Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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No offense...but I think you are full of crap most of the time. However, this post was spot on.
LOL, none taken. I know you think that about me. But I'm happy to finally find agreement with you.
Well, I was overly harsh. LOL. You handled it well. Now I feel like a jerk. 
But your post was still spot on. It will happen. Mark it down. Hell, when DA was leading us to a 10 win season, people wanted Quinn to take over.
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btw I think the poll has been up for a while. I remember hearing about the votes over two weeks ago.
I think so too. I think that makes sense, because when all people knew for sure was Hoyer, it made sense to back him as the starter. Now that people have got a look at Manziel, and have heard about him progressing in camp, it makes sense that he would gain on Hoyer.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not to put a snag in your theory...I think the numbers are still around the same - if he gained it was from just 1-2 %.
But its a poll - I hope no Brown's football decision will ever be made with any influence via a poll. Although I can remember a subject or two where that has been suggested in the past...lol 
Now if they took a poll of just Sports Journalists and Football analyst - betcha it would be around 70-30 Manziel... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Could be. I can't say for sure.
All I do know for sure is that a fan poll won't influence Pettine at all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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I want to see the poll of Loggains, Pettine and Shanahan after preseason game 3. That's the only one that matters..
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I want to see the poll of Loggains, Pettine and Shanahan after preseason game 3. That's the only one that matters..
I wanna know what happens if that poll is 2-1 in either QBs favor..
But the 1 is Pettine...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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It will be a discussion and a decision - you ever watch Chopped (cookie show) the way those judges get it done. They confer and unanimously agree on the decision. Well not Turked but one will get chopped!
Just remember this was Hoyer's job to lose and he hasn't done anything to lose it.
JM has shown that he is our Franchise QB of the future - time to nurture that and create our MASTER Johnny Football and unleash him on ALL!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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JM has shown that he is our Franchise QB of the future - time to nurture that and create our MASTER Johnny Football and unleash him on ALL!
jmho
Please tell me your kidding?
"Johnny Football" looked like a bum out there the other night...he done nothing that impressed me, i saw nothing out of this kid that says "oh my he is our guy"
Seeing Manziel play made me thankful we have Hoyer...i see Baby Brady out there in Hoyer...barring injury...I think Hoyer is the guy, and as long as Hoyer stays healthy, with the D he will take us to the postseason and that will cement Hoyer has the guy here in Cleveland, and hopefully we can send that egotistical, arrogant, cocky, partying fool moron Manziel out of here on the 1st trade offer that comes along.
Hoyer is EVERYTHING a Cleveland Browns franchise QB should be: Humble, a good guy, great work ethic, quick release, makes fast reads, shows good poise in the pocket, is mobile, and more importantly he doesn't come with the character issues Manzeil does...Manziel is a prima donna...he is going to make Winslow and Edwards look like poster childs in comparison...just wait.
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Don't hold back tell us how you feel
Joe Thomas #73
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To say nothing of letting your own personal hate cloud what you see on the field.
I wasn't ready to anoint JM - but a rookie in his first ever NFL game, he did well enough and wayyyyyy better than you are giving credit for.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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"Johnny Football" looked like a bum out there the other night...he done nothing that impressed me
I realize he didn't do anything spectacular, but he "done nothing" that warrants calling him a bum.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I wouldn't call him a "bum," just like I wouldn't call him a franchise QB after one preseason game. Truth be told, he looked pretty much like I expected him to look.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Ok First off Johnny Manziel didn't look like Bum out there.. NOT EVEN CLOSE.. What the hell is wrong with your eyeballs LOL Was he perfect, HELL NO.. But a bum.. Get serious. I am also happy we have hoyer but I think it's for different reasons that you. You seem to have this thing that Hoyer is a baby Brady.. What in the hell is a baby brady. He's either Brady or he's not, and he's not. Personally, I think we are so damn lucky for the first time in a long time. We have a 6 year vet that hasn't played a lot so he's got a lotta life in that body. But is he THE guy? Long term, I don't think so but who really knows. It will play out WHAT I want is for Pettine and company to make the decisions based solely on what they see, not on the pressure they get from Haslam or the fans or the media... If JM is the man.. Cool,, Let's get started. If not, let him sit and learn. But to call JM a bum and to elude to Hoyer being the next Brady....GEESH.. I wanna smoke whatever you are smokin... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ok Mrs. Hoyer, we get the message, you dont like Johny. Now go back to baking brownies cause its obvious you dont know a damn thing about football.
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Ok Mrs. Hoyer, we get the message, you dont like Johny. Now go back to baking brownies cause its obvious you dont know a damn thing about football.
I agree.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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"Johnny Football" looked like a bum out there the other night...he done nothing that impressed me, i saw nothing out of this kid that says "oh my he is our guy"
Johnny Manziel's QB coach praises his 'exceptional job' in Detroit and 'you can't take the best part of him away'
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/johnny_manziels_qb_coach_says.html
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c
I can't believe that people feel so certain one way or the another at all after one preseason game against backups. He hasn't done anything real, yet, folks... give it some time before jumping to conclusions.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Agreed ... What was the play designed to do? He should of thrown it, that was what the play and situation called for doing. Dont wanna hear if's on who would or would not catch it. Thats a lame basis for your argument.
How do you know what the play called for? Sheesh!
I sometimes think that Ohio fans can't handle success. The BB folks are complaining even though we got LeBron, Love, and other free agents who can help us.
JM plays well in the opener and people are complaining HOW he got a first down.
It's like you enjoy losing and being miserable and have no idea how to handle success.
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The only ones jumping to conclusions are the guys who are bashing him. His supporters have simply said that he played well in his first test.
And you have to consider what a guy did in college. There is a reason the coaches put him ahead of Conner Shaw in camp, sight unseen.
Heck, people are giving way more love to Bitonio and West than they are Manziel. Did you address them?
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There hasn't been any success, yet.
The BB folks complain about the things OTHER than LBJ & Love... you, however think they should just put on a smile and be chipper despite their ability to see a weakness on the team.
The "HOW" he got a first down thing, just like the BB thing.... it's called being critical, not unhappy (and certainly not "can't handle success", lol).
Being critical is how you improve. Staring at weaknesses that you can clearly see and doing nothing is how you stagnate, wither, and die.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
The only ones jumping to conclusions are the guys who are bashing him. His supporters have simply said that he played well in his first test.
And you have to consider what a guy did in college. There is a reason the coaches put him ahead of Conner Shaw in camp, sight unseen.
Heck, people are giving way more love to Bitonio and West than they are Manziel. Did you address them?/
No, should I?
Man, I cannot thank you enough for instructing me on how to respond and to whom, and when. I NEVER would have gotten it right if it wasn't for YOU.
Praise be! 
More than the critics are jumping to conclusions, otherwise there wouldn't be posts stating that "he's already shown he is our franchise of the future", blah, blah, or whatever. He performed well... great, leave it at that. Making any proclamations beyond that - one way or another - is ludicrous. It's Preseason Game 1... it's only slightly above Family Night on the scale of validity.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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A quote from QB Coach, Loggins from the link in pblack's post above...
"Loggains had no problem with Manziel running on fourth-and-1 instead of dumping it off to wide-open fullback Ray Agnew.
"It was a plus (in the grade book) because this is a production business and he got the first down,'' said Loggains. "That stuff changes a little bit if it doesn't happen, but there was a guy in his view and he had to get around and you saw him when he sidestepped it a little bit, he was looking to make the play then and he saw the first-down marker and made a heck of a play to get the first down.''
#gmstrong
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Think what you want. Johnny Manziel is a WAY better QB than Brian Hoyer.
That's projection I admit, but , pick one....here....now....do you take Brian or Johnny? A question for the board.....one or the other. I don't want to hear this, that, or the other. JUST a name.
I take Johnny Football
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Think what you want. Johnny Manziel is a WAY better QB than Brian Hoyer.
That's projection I admit, but , pick one....here....now....do you take Brian or Johnny? A question for the board.....one or the other. I don't want to hear this, that, or the other. JUST a name.
I take Johnny Football
Brian
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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"Johnny Football" looked like a bum out there the other night
Mensa?
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We will see how consistent you remain if he bombs this week. You are one of the guys, along w/PDR, who said it was "likely" that he would bust. That was pretty objective, since you said it before he even took a snap in TC. I guess it is my turn to roll my eyes.
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No, I don't have to pick anything right now; and I didn't say anything about who was better or isn't... I'm not worried about any of that. That will work itself out. Just like the coaches, I can sit back and see what happens and how they do.... and even then, *I* don't have to pick anything. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
A quote from QB Coach, Loggins from the link in pblack's post above...
"Loggains had no problem with Manziel running on fourth-and-1 instead of dumping it off to wide-open fullback Ray Agnew.
"It was a plus (in the grade book) because this is a production business and he got the first down,'' said Loggains. "That stuff changes a little bit if it doesn't happen, but there was a guy in his view and he had to get around and you saw him when he sidestepped it a little bit, he was looking to make the play then and he saw the first-down marker and made a heck of a play to get the first down.''
Imagine that. I think someone else said something very similar.
Peen: I am not picking one or the other right now. Too early. I am just perplexed at those dissing JM. He did a pretty good job the other night. Again, I get the feeling that there are too many people who don't like him as a person and really don't want him to succeed.
Therefore, I am defending him now. I am going to keep observing and evaluating and will pick a guy AFTER the third preseason game.
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We will see how consistent you remain if he bombs this week. You are one of the guys, along w/PDR, who said it was "likely" that he would bust.
That was pretty objective, since you said it before he even took a snap in TC. I guess it is my turn to roll my eyes.
Yup, I did say that, and that is exactly how I felt.
And if he doesn't have the maturity side of things down pat, that's how I still feel, regardless of how he may perform. By accounts, he's already proving me wrong about on the field... hopefully he proves me wrong about off the field as well. We'll see; there's nothing to do but watch and wait.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That's fair and honorable.
Peace.
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Why does anyone have to pick a guy?
Just support whomever the starter is until they prove they're not good enough and get replaced...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c
I thought it was pick one right now if the real season was tomorrow?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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How about pick one, right now, for the next 5-10 years. While I might be inclined to prefer Hoyer right now, I definitely pick Manziel if the parameters are long term. Too much potential there to pick otherwise.
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j/c
This thread is making me bust a gut!
We have guys dissing the rook after one preseason game.
We have guys picking the rook over the vet- after one preseason game.
We have guys challenging others to "pick one or the other"... after one preseason game.
We have guys making predictions about 2 QB's who have the same amount of time in a brand-new offense, with brand-new coaches under a brand-new FO.
You know what? I'm actually stoked at the fact that we Browns fans have 2 legit-looking QB's chomping at the bit to play their best for us.
For the first time in 15 years.
That's truly enough for me at this point. I'm content to watch this whole thing play out... because BOTH look better than almost anything we've had in the past.
It's a "good problem" to have, you know?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Heck yeah! good post clem.
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Well, I think his new nickname needs to be Johnny Money. Then, if he turns out to be a star, then he'll be a 'money' player. If he bombs big time, then all the people who wanted to draft Bridewater (see improperly printed Vikings jersey) can say, "See, I told you so."
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I like both players, and I believe 3 things.
1. Manziel is far more talented than Hoyer, on a physical basis. he does things that other QBs cannot do.
2. Hoyer is ahead of Manziel on a mental/knowledge basis. Hoyer has said that he has studied for his entire time in the NFL to get to the point where he feels comfortable with an NFL offense. Manziel is still working towards that comfort zone.
3. I think that Manziel can eventually catch Hoyer on the mental side, if he works at it hard enough, but Hoyer will never bring what Manziel can to the field.
I was glad that the Browns picked Manziel, not because I am sure that he will be a star player ...... but because I am fairly certain that he will either be a star player, or else a spectacular bust. I don't think that there is a lot of middle ground with him.That was, and is, a risk worth taking.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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