Quote: as for the play your talking about? he should have passed it. you don't gain team trust by trying to do it all yourself. have to trust the people you are throwing to.
You gain trust by being good. Getting first downs is a good thing.
and getting a first down the right way is even better.
There is a wrong way to get a first down? I guess if Manziel got injured I could understand, but the only thing that happened was we got a first down.
Quote: so now we are bickering not on the result of the play but how that result was obtained.
What if he ran for a touchdown with a wide open receiver in the end zone... we should only get 4 points?
well that's a pretty stupid comment. ofcourse we would take the 7. just like we took the first down. but the truth is we would have had another 5 yards at least if he would have passed it.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Quote: so now we are bickering not on the result of the play but how that result was obtained.
What if he ran for a touchdown with a wide open receiver in the end zone... we should only get 4 points?
well that's a pretty stupid comment. ofcourse we would take the 7. just like we took the first down. but the truth is we would have had another 5 yards at least if he would have passed it.
well we all cant be as smart as you, of course you of course your assuming the pass is on line, that he will catch it and he would not fumble when running with it...but that's ok because we know none of those things ever happen
Quote: so now we are bickering not on the result of the play but how that result was obtained.
What if he ran for a touchdown with a wide open receiver in the end zone... we should only get 4 points?
well that's a pretty stupid comment. ofcourse we would take the 7. just like we took the first down. but the truth is we would have had another 5 yards at least if he would have passed it.
well we all cant be as smart as you, of course you of course your assuming the pass is on line, that he will catch it and he would not fumble when running with it...but that's ok because we know none of those things ever happen
ofcourse if you watch. he just made the first. it was real close. the smart play was the pass.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Quote: so now we are bickering not on the result of the play but how that result was obtained.
What if he ran for a touchdown with a wide open receiver in the end zone... we should only get 4 points?
well that's a pretty stupid comment. ofcourse we would take the 7. just like we took the first down. but the truth is we would have had another 5 yards at least if he would have passed it.
Just like when we ran the exact same play with Hoyer. gotcha Of course the fullback dropped the ball but sure glad he did the right thing lol.
Quote: so now we are bickering not on the result of the play but how that result was obtained.
What if he ran for a touchdown with a wide open receiver in the end zone... we should only get 4 points?
well that's a pretty stupid comment. ofcourse we would take the 7. just like we took the first down. but the truth is we would have had another 5 yards at least if he would have passed it.
Just like when we ran the exact same play with Hoyer. gotcha Of course the fullback dropped the ball but sure glad he did the right thing lol.
going to bed. get back to you on Hoyer. but you guys are all right. just brilliant play by jff.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Quote: Cuz Im have a clue and i guess maybe u dont.
Let's break that masterpiece of a sentence [sic] down, shall we?
I am thoroughly enjoying the evisceration of these semi-literate trolls. I only wonder how they manage to get past the Dawgtalkers.net login screen to post these gems.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I see that some people really feel like JFF should have thrown that ball, I think he made the right call. He needed a yard, got a yard, untouched...done.
Quote: Quick, find the one play where he was trying to make a play and get the first down, don't show the other 4 or 5 times when he slid or got out of bounds..
ok.
What? He got down.. not all that gracefully but he did get down before the hit.. first time he went headfirst into the pile, second time he went head first before the hit, after that he got out of bounds and slid... that's called progress in one game.
Quote: I see that some people really feel like JFF should have thrown that ball, I think he made the right call. He needed a yard, got a yard, untouched...done.
Agreed. It was 4th down, we had to get the yard. He felt he could do it by running, so he ran. Throwing the ball requires 2 things for success: the throw (sometimes it just slips out and what should be a gimme is not) and the catch (have we *ever* seen a perfect pass get dropped?). Running doesn't introduce the extra components.
That one coach said it's a results driven business and he got the desired result, the first down.
Good to see the team has advanced so far already that we can criticize accomplishments as well as failures.
Quote: I think it was tuna who said when you throw the ball three things can happen and two of them are bad.
Actually, I think Woody Hayes coined that 50-60 years ago.
Yea, I don't know who said it first but I know it's been out there long before the Big Tuna was famous. My dad used to tell me the same thing in baseball as far as why it was better to hit hard ground balls than pop flys...
Brendan Leister ‏@BrendanLeister 39m Something that stood out yesterday: Agnew dropped only pass his way all practice. Manziel chose to run for 1st over passing to him vs DET.
ddubbia grading the result as per Loggins cause JM got the first down.
Successful yes, my main worry is he opted to run and grade and too often twice it looked like he went down and got hit in the head when he took off. Again my fear is not in his lack of success when he runs. My fear is in the injuries that will definitely come.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: Good to see the team has advanced so far already that we can criticize accomplishments as well as failures.
I wanted to re-post this, because it shouldn't be overlooked. This is HUGE, imho.
We've been waiting for years to have discussions of a positive nature... and I find this even more refreshing than all the new-found medialove we've been getting.
Without getting my hopes up too high (this IS Cleveland, you know..), it really does feel as if 'a corner is being turned'....
Quote: My fear is in the injuries that will definitely come.
Injuries are a real concern when a QB runs. Because of what you said in another post about QBs reverting to their old habits when they become overwhelmed or confused, (which is something I believe we've seen play-out in the last game as he dove head first on his first two runs), is another reason I hope Hoyer starts so Johnny has more time to entrench himself in the offense so he has "new" habits when things get difficult.
They've just finished installing the last of the new offense this week. He's certainly not going to have it all down pat by the next game on Monday night. Coming from his college offense to this one is a giant leap. Not so much for Hoyer.
Hoyer has been in, studied and played in complicated offenses before. He has a much greater chance of absorbing and implementing the new offense than does Manzel. Johnny is more talented without a doubt. But right now Hoyer is likely far ahead of him in understanding the offense and having good habits within it based on his experience.
I would like to see Manzel start Monday night. Pettine says they'll both play with the ones so starting Johnny seems the fair thing to do in a fair competition since Hoyer started the last game. Then Pettine has a week to name the game 3 starter who will likely start the season.
Just a note: I like the decision being made on the seasons starter before the 3rd game rather than wait until a few days before the opening game before naming a QB which we've seen before. Give the team that 3rd game, the practices before the 4th one, one series in the 4th game and the next week of practice knowing who the starter is. That gives the team a solid couple of weeks knowing who the starter is and practicing accordingly to get used to each other.
I'll admit I was quite disappointed in the performance of Manziel and the entire offense. While I'll agree the game wasn't all his fault, he never looked comfortable or confident in the pocket, which isn't a good sign. What had me scratching my head was why we were doing so much read option. Why not stick to the offense he was running with Hoyer? The bootlegs, rollouts, and heavy play action? That felt, and looked like a complete rookie move on Shanahans part. I can only imagine how frustrated the rest of the guys on offense were. (and defense for that matter).
I hope Manziel shows some improvement these next two games. If he looks like a giant turd in Carolina and then again in Baltimore I think it's going to raise a lot of eye brows in the front office, and drafting another QB is suddenly going to be an option.
I'm not saying I'll agree with that move, but we all saw that this team can win games, I don't think they're going to want to drag their feet and waste a ton of time trying to develop a project rookie.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
It's obvious from Manziel's play last week, he is a "long term" project.
How Johnny develops is directly related to the amount of work Manziel is willing to put in, to develop himself as a Pro QB.
Browns front office needs to get Hoyer signed to a 3 year contract and then begin searching for another QB to complete with Manziel for the backup job.
I'm not sure Brian Hoyer is going to want to stay in Cleveland after the way things have played out these last few weeks. Why would he want to come back when he knows that as soon as he starts playing streaky (in a bad way) he's at risk of being benched again?
I just really don't see a scenario where Hoyer comes back.
If Manziel is an absolute turd these last two games, I guess their is a 5% chance that Manziel could be traded, and Hoyer re-signed, but I see a lot of negative media backlash from a move like that.
I wouldn't be shocked to see us draft a QB in one of the top four rounds next year (as we have six picks in the top four) if Manziel doesn't improve in either of these next two games.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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