DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon is a Punk

Anyone notice how the entire team sucked Sunday, including the coaching staff? Until the meltdown against the Colts and the no-show against Cincy, this was a playoff caliber team. Baby steps. This team might have turned it around in a year, but it didn't. Now we have to see how they show up this week, next week, and next year.

The biggest question mark? Who is our QB? Because we still don't know. But there is definitely a team being built around the position, and the culture of losing is changing, whether Bernie and others want to admit or not.

You see QBs (Manning and Brady immediately come to mind) screaming their heads off or showing poor body language all the time if a WR runs a route wrong, but WRs aren't allowed to do the same when a QB horribly misses his target? Tensions arise on the field when teammates don't do their jobs. If Hoyer or anybody else doesn't want to see Josh Gordon showing frustrated body language, the QB should do his job and throw the ball to him. That goes for Hoyer, Manziel, or any other QB. WRs work to get open and expect their QB to do their job correctly when they do get the opportunity to receive a pass.

I know I'd be mad if I worked with a co-worker on a project for a week and did my part well, then my co-worker screwed up their end. Anger and frustration happen, not a big deal. Now, if you saw Gordon pulling on his QB's jersey and continuing to scream on the sideline like Owens used to do, THAT could be a problem.

Ricky Williams had that kind of talent as well...just sayin'.

I agree about Cameron. The guy is constantly hurt, then comes back and runs bad routes. It is not like he just started learning the play book, they guy has played some this year. His blocking is terrible, and this year he has had no impact as far as helping this team win.

With Gordon, it is just that people don't like his off field stuff, and justify their hate by accusing him of dogging it. How do they know he is not running the right routes or full speed. I watch every game, and until the ball is thrown, you rarely see what the WRs are doing.

As for him being pissed about Hoyer' bad throws, I don't blame him. Against Indy he had a sure TD, I hope he jumped Hoyer's ass about it.

The guy has not practiced for the first ten weeks of the season, I expect some lapses, but Cameron has no excuse.

Not sure I consider him a punk.. I listened to Pettine in a presser a few weeks back that he was pleased with how Josh blocked and ran his routes...

Then I also heard Pettine say he wished Josh was more aggressive at going for the ball...

Honestly I see an offense that all together seem to be falling apart as a team instead of building as one..

Is it due to Mack being out ? Why is JT struggling again ? Why are the RB's Struggling...And a FG kicker who got booted all pun intended a week ago..

An early bye and many injuries... I know your conversation is of Josh not performing well.. But at this point... I see lots of underachieving happening.

We miss Austin a lot. Someone has to catch those third down passes. He was this year's Joe J who was a huge reason we made 10-6 in 2007.

Everyone likes the big play, but chain movers are just as important.

I don't think it is right to be calling players punks.

Is he immature, yes, has he made stupid decisions, yes. Is he talented, yes. Is he a criminal? no.

I dislike every loudmouth and egotistical player. Irvin, Sanders, Manziel and numerous others.

Can I live with them on a team, my team. Probably.

But I wont loose any sleep if they are cut the next day, see Ray McDonald and Rice who are a far, far worse people than Gordon has ever demonstrated.

People need to understand the difference between individual stupid decisions, and criminal acts against others.

I'd call a team like Oakland or NYJ, and offer him for their (high) 2nd.

I could see the Jets biting on that.

And I'd be totally fine with it. Because I want Jaelen Strong in the first round anyways...

Is he a great talent? Yes.
Do I assume he's going to get suspended again? No.
Do I think he has the drive to put in 100% all the time to be as great as he can be? No.

I'm not a fan of his in-game body language either, but anyone who has re-watched the play and says he "dogged it" has an obvious agenda.

I broke the play down in the gameday thread back then and it was a misjudgement of where he was on the field (he though he was closer to the sideline than he actually was) because he looked back for the ball a long time and had to wait for it because it was underthrown. Still Hoyer's best play of that game. He threw a laser that traveled over 60yds. It was good effort by both. Gordon was too worried about his feet, which in turn cost him hand concentration. Both tried to make a long odds play and made it really close.

If you want to talk about "dogging it": watch what your boy Mingo did on that 4th&1 play. The 2nd effort run came over his side. He was on the ground righ off the snap and just waited for the play to end. He took that play off and it cost us the game. I consider "laying on the ground doing nothing" more like "dogging it" than running 60yds downfield, running to the sideline with your head turned trying to make a leaping catch while stopping your feet to stay in bounds.

But yeah, let's blame Josh Gordon

You want to trade who could end up being the best WR in the league for a second round pick because he was mad after an errant pass didn't find his hands and you assume he doesn't give maximum effort on every play? Folks...

Nobody is going to give up a high second for Gordon.

That's absurd.

jc

Josh is just distracted because he lost 10 game checks and can only buy is pot in ounces instead of kilos

I don't know if I agree that Gordon is a punk, but I guess his lack of effort since he's returned has been a little disappointing. I would have thought he would understand the playbook better having had 10 weeks to watch film and study it inside the building. I still think he can be salvaged though, a lot of issues have been at the QB position since he's returned, we can't forget that. If a team gave us a call offering a 2nd round pick for him? I would certainly think about it. Their are a lot of intriguing receivers in the first two or three rounds of this years draft...one without the off-the-field issues.

Sign a good WR in free agency, then draft one in the 1st round, that could make up for cutting Gordon loose, but the only way I'm doing it at this point is for a 2nd round draft pick....

Teams get desperate at draft time, so it's possible it could happen. A team like Seattle, Oakland or Minnesota that are in need of a #1 receiver.

Oakland could be eye balling Amari Cooper with their 1st pick (which as of now is 3rd overall). If they were to give us a 2nd round pick for Gordon, they could use that pick on a good pass rusher or offensive lineman.

It's also worth noting that next year is Gordons contract year, it's possible he leaves or wants too much money to stay. That would go into Farmers thought process too if a team calls to offer a pick for him...

JC

The man has been out of football for months. Only being able to train and etc, not practice or get reps in a new offense in etc. I think we all bought a little too much into Gordon coming back and being an instant impact on the field (me included.)

I fear by the time Flash gets into a grove, if that happens at all this season given bad QB play and line play and etc - it'll be late in the 4th quarter against Baltimore and that's how his season will end.

JMO

Not going to happen.

If anyone traded a 2nd for Gordon, I'd look for them to be fired not long after.

It's hard to say what teams might do, however teams generally don't like to give up 1st or 2nd round picks for players already in the league unless they are really top guys, or QBs.

Gordon can be a top guy, That was shown last year. The rules changes have out him into a position where he could be completely cleared with a year of not failing a test at the new, higher limits. Maybe that pushes a team into making a deal. I don't think that it will .... but stranger things have happened.

Look up what WR's garner on the trade market, then factor in that Gordon has the ball and chain of Stage 3 shackled to his leg, and no, it's not hard to say whether or not he could garner a second round pick.

A conditional third would be a shot-in-the-dark guess for a max return. I would be stunned if a team gave up a second, and, again, would expect to find that GM fired not long after.

I don't see us trading him, nor should we. His value is pretty close to it's floor.

Who is going to pay a second for a guy that odds say will be suspended at some point next season?

A second round pick is a valuable commodity. A talented WR who can't stay on the field because of drug issues does not have near the same value.

He has shown that he can be one of the best WR in the game. He is in stage 3, but that does not mean what it meant prior to the revision of the CBA. If he stays clean for a year, granted a question, at the new higher levels, then he goes out of the program entirely.

Stage 3 does not mean what it once meant.

So did Randy Moss.

What did he get traded for over the course of his career?

WR's have low trade value. Ones with baggage have even less.



A big one, and a low odds gamble.

You don't trade second rounders for a low odds gambles. I can't discount the possibility of a GM being a head scratching moron, but I doubt any would put their name on such a trade.

While you're correct, for teams desperate for help, it's possible.

Josh Gordon has a ton of upside and a team with a great coaching staff, lots of veterans, and a winning culture might be willing to risk pulling the trigger.

Gordon is still extremely young, he's big, fast, and he's shown he can lead the league in receiving (in only 14 games).

He's an off the field risk with high reward.

While it is unlikely, it wouldn't shock me to see someone willing to part with a 2nd round pick for him. Especially a team that's ready to win now. (Seattle, New England, Carolina, New Orleans).

I am not saying that teams will line up to throw high picks at the Browns, but getting a higher draft pick is more likely with the new CBA than it would have been prior to the rules changes.

Very solid point.

Wasn't San Francisco rumored to be offering us a 3rd round pick last year near the trade deadline?

I wouldn't say Gordon is a punk, but he seems a bit lazy, unmotivated, at least to a point.

About that article that came out last week....

"Josh Gordon says 'it's crazy to think' he'll play harder for Johnny Manziel than he did for Brian Hoyer"

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/josh_gordon_says_its_crazy_to.html

Sorry to repeat myself, but what he should have said was, "I promise I'll give 70% - and that's on every play."

Would you rather he gives 70% on every play..

..or 100% on 70% of the plays?

Wow! That's too deep for me... Now I have to go back to bed!

I disagree since I've watched those games pretty closely. If you're going to say anyone is responsible for carrying Hoyer during his 2013 games, it would be Jordan Cameron.

Everyone deserves their own blame. Gordon has definitely played a big part.

He won't play harder for Manziel because he can't play any harder, he's already giving maximum effort.

"It's like trying to throw a game on purpose. Nobody wants to do that -- no matter if you like a guy or you don't like a guy. I love Brian. He's been here since I first got here just about. He was my quarterback last year. He's a competitor, I had nothing wrong with him, and I never even played with Johnny before -- so that's crazy to think that.''

Why do people keep making things up? Most of the time, viewers can't see what the WR is doing on TV until the ball reaches them. But, SOMEHOW, people claim to know exactly what's happening on the field and say he's lazy. Stop making things up to fit your argument. You don't like him because he got suspended for weed? Fine, just say that. There's no need to make things up to justify your dislike for him, though. Gordon is one of the best WRs in the game and looked like the only guy giving effort on offense last week.

"We have a top WR in the league after crying about not having offensive weapons for years. This guy is probably lazy, though, so let's get rid of him." You didn't say to get rid of him, but others in here have. It's ridiculous.

Would love to see Gordon go for 200+ to shut this talk up ... or maybe you guys would like to trade our best if not the NFL's best WR

cant be the best if your not playing. and that is just a fact.

I'm in no way trying to get rid of him but it doesn't change the fact that you can tell that he's not giving maximum effort. So what you're saying is that he goes balls out until he comes on screen and then lets up? LOL

Most talented player on the team that makes everything look easy whether he is giving 100% or 110% ... Yep definitely a punk. Get rid of him. 12 weeks on the sidelines unable to practice with the team (well - actually, a bunch of weeks not able to have ANY contact with the team and then I think it was about week 6 he was allowed to practice at the facilities?) .... we ALL know that any WR in the NFl would step right in and be game ready, game fit, not skip a beat. The guy clearly is a punk. Cut him.

- OR -

Just another B.S agenda driven post by someone who seems to love to stir the pot - say outrageous things then play the victim when intelligent posters construct sensible, well founded arguments to refute whatever attention getting headline the poster comes up with.

You choose.

Just watch Gordon's highlights from last year - even when he was tearing up long TD runs and being pursued by fast CB's and safeties, he made it look easy. He didn't LOOK like he was trying then.... suddenly he's supposed to look different after 12 weeks on the sidelines ... what the heck ever.

At this point, I could care less about Gordon's personality and whether or not he's a punk. The offense clearly regressed after he came back.

Maybe the Seattle model is the way to go.

So you're saying that Gordon made Hoyer look bad, throw int's and made the running game go bad?

Makes sense?

No, not at all.

It's just an observation. The offense and our little WRs were playing much better prior to Gordon coming back than they have been since he has come back. Hoyer was showing signs of falling apart but Hawkins and Gabriel were balling. They are basically invisible now. Regardless of the reason, you can't argue that.

I don't know the reason. I only know that since Gordon came back they haven't been as productive. It just made me think about Seattle's model and the fact that no Super Bowl winning team I can remember in the last umpteen years had a top 3 WR on their squad.

It just makes me think is all.

Just hope that Gordon will not squander his chances as he has been given yet another chance. Just hope he will not throw that chance away.

How many chances are they willing to give him though is the question?

they will give him next year. then his contract is up. or I would. but he seems to be a cross between Ricky Williams and braylon Edwards. got the talent but......

I just love all these Einsteins who ridicule people who evaluate Gordon's play.

He is not playing well. His effort level--not talking about how he runs---is lame. He runs the wrong routs over and over.

He is not nearly as great as you guys say he is. Blame the messengers all you want. The truth does not change.

No one is saying to cut him or trade him, but the guy needs to change his act. I am tired of all of the apologists, yet most of you rip Manziel?

Say what?

Josh has tons of talent, BUT unless his mind catches up to his body it won't do him any good.

He's really helped since he's come back, hasn't he?