DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Panthers 17 Postgame Thoughts

Postgame thoughts. JF couldn't make it two games as starter without his brittle frame getting injured. A hamstring? I thought Miles Austin was going to be the first person with a hamstring injury?

This entire offense is a joke. It was a small sample size with three games with JF, now it looks like we will be lucky to see him play in the season finale. JOKE!

So, show us something that shows otherwise.

So far, he's an antsy footed, 1 read then run qb. Exactly what he was in college. His "extend the play" crap may have worked in college.............NEWS FLASH: This ain't college.

He made 1 quarter, 1 full game, and another 1/4 and a half before he got hurt.

John IS a developmental qb. Show me ONE thing that shows he's not.

I believe Bernie said it all. You can't build a winning franchise when you have incompetents running the show. This started with Version 1.0 of the "new" Browns. They choose Carmen Policy as GM. I go back a long way with CP (high school). He had no on or off field experience with football before his pal Eddie D. Jr. made him a GM. His success at SF had little to do with anything he did, but rather the presence of an offensive genius as head coach.

CP had never built an NFL from scratch and didn't have a clue how to do it. So what did he do, take Tim Coach with the first pick. If Coach had been an Andrew Luck type QB that would have been a good decision, but he wasn't.. The wise decision would have been to build the O-line and defense thru the draft and use a journeyman QB the first few years. Instead we had Coach and so much hype some Browns fans were even talking playoffs the first year. That set the model for team management. Draft a hyped offensive player; QB, RB or receiver and use third rate backups in the less glamorous positions. Yeah, Joe Thomas was the exception, but by that point Browns fans were so used to the hype did anyone say "we're going to the Super Bowl this year because we now have a good left tackle."? No, so year after year it has been new QBs, new RBs new receivers and the same loosing teams. The organization needs someone with the knowledge and balls to build the team from the ground up, with an owner who has no football experience keeping his distance. Maybe then this team can start to win.

Pretty much the same post you put in a different thread.


I'll turn it back on you: Show me ONE thing that displays that John is NOT a development qb. Thanks in advance, if you can come up with anything.

Here's a clue: His passing is inaccurate. His reads are terrible. He can't run in the nfl. He's too small to try running. He doesn't seem to know the playbook past the first read. He doesn't throw people open. He doesn't throw to open people.

Tell me, where am I wrong?

Why would you want such an easily injured QB? WE're looking at RG IV here.

JFF needed to wait the entire season to be ready for the NFL. He is extremely young and not ready mentally.

That was my hope, man. Just a complete and total redshirt.

Let him come into year 2 with the same coach, coordinator, etc... A full second training camp under his belt, and another pre-season, etc...

Although with a small sampling, maybe it works out both where he sat and watched most of the year, while still getting his feet wet, and seeing how brutal the position and game really is at the NFL level. I'm grasping here. This team seems so screwed.

Another great week of run defense! The Seahawks have the Legend of Doom for their secondary. Perhaps the Browns can nickname their run defense the Legend of Room,

I cant believe how bad Manzeil looks. I mean, I've seen rookies come in and stink, but they look like they at least have a clue what is happening. As I watch JM, he appears to not have a clue as to what to do.

I know it is early for him, but damn, show something, anything that gives hope. Because up to this point you look like a failureready to happen.

Exactly. Everybody is blaming the offense, but the defense lost this game IMO. The offense got the lead, then the defense gave up a TD in like 6 plays.

wow. a defense that held a team to 17 points and its there fault?

You can give out blame all kinds of different ways.

I do get annoyed with how when December hits, this team always lets teams run all over them out of the gate.

I really liken today's game to neither side of the ball being good enough. offense only scored 13, and defense blew a lead late. This isn't the same as the Indy game where they kept handing the lead back to the offense only for them to go 3 and out. On top of giving them 2 defensive TD's not the same. But blame goes all around today.

Post game thoughts?

Thank god we have the cavs to root for.

I don't think we are screwed... I think we need to find the next QB. once we do that things will work themselves out. JM needs to gain about 10 lbs of muscle and brain matter.

Leaf may have started off better.

His coaches aren't helping him either. Designed runs? Cmon man. Let the kid it back there and make mistakes, and learn. A designed run this late in the season does nothing. So awful.

Manziel showed improvement from week 1 to week 2. thats what I wanted see. Hoyer still cant hit a receiver with a 10 yard cushion, thats what we have seen all year.

Yeah... not a huge fan of the play call.

How many tds has Hoyer missed this year?

So frustrating.

Or how many did he make the connection, but if the pass was better and the WR didn't have to slow down/back peddle/adjust in some form, would have been tds? Many of those too.

I hope you're right. I probably shouldn't be so down on a guy after 2 games, but it's just so tough to take.

well yea. that's true. a 50 qb rate is better than a 27. of course his completion rate went from 55 to 37%.....

Tell me, where am I wrong?


Well first off!!! I would sa--
Well I would say - - -
Well!!
Nevermind! You're right..

all joking aside. I didn't want Manziel but I had hope he was everything people said but I just don't see it. I would sign Hoyer and develop Shaw or whoever we draft next year but play Hoyer all of next year and beyond if he plays well and get rid of Manziel. Someone might give us a Ham sandwich

Isn't that the truth!!! Some of the posts here are thoroughly disgusting...

I was hoping he was the real deal too....but I'm not seeing anything that resembles a quality QB in him right now. He looks awful bad.

Well, my philosophy has almost always been to trade down in the first round and pick up more selections unless the guy that you really want is available at your selection and you think that there is good value in it.

In 2015, I would very much consider falling completely out of the first round altogether (yes, trading away both firsts in this manner) and piling up the picks in rounds 2-7 in the draft and in rounds 1-7 in future drafts.

I was ridiculed a few years ago when we had 13 selections but was told at time that the Browns can't add 13 players to the roster. They weren't upset that we gave up 3 additional selections to move up a single spot to draft Trent Richardson.

It was said that we couldn't use those draft picks and put them on the team anyway, so why not trade them away to get players that we wanted. Well, how many of those draft picks from 2012 are on the team? We made 11 selections in that draft and only 4 are on the team. Those four are Mitchell Schwartz, John Hughes, Travis Benjamin and Billy Winn. That's it! It seems to me that we could have used those 3 additional selections.

Gee I don’t even know how to start this post but my game day thoughts are these.

Johnny played much better it’s what I want to see from him it’s just that he started in such a bad place.

He isn’t ready but that doesn’t mean he won’t be come next year, that is up to him but I did see a few small sparks and it was worlds better then a week ago. Progress was made on his part, and that’s a good thing.

There is NO QB controversy between Hoyer and Johnny, and that’s a good thing.

The controversy exists only here among the fans and in the press, and that’s a bad thing.

Management has mishandled this QB thing from jump they need to do better, had they made it clear to everyone this whole QB thing which is really a byproduct of managerial waffling wouldn’t exist and it really shouldn’t.

The simple question is this are we better with Hoyer or without? Are we better in the future with or without Johnny? The simple answer here is we are better with both for now and into the future and we all need to recognize that.

Its starts with recognizing that Johnny although he was a 1st round pick (meaningless BTW) is a guy that is a full 2 year project then maybe he is ready. So that means that everyone in Browns town should have from jump got on board with Hoyer fully. Not this we will continue to evaluate and make changes if we feel they need to be made.

That CANNOT be the public approach the private approach is always we will evaluate but to the team and in the press its all hands on deck for the starter otherwise you have the issues we are just now seeing surface. It’s not Brian against Johnny, its what’s best for the Browns and the player.

It’s not how fast we can push Johnny onto the field but how successful he is once he gets there. It’s about having a thoughtful and well put together plan to development the player and pushing him in the case of Johnny to work hard to prepare.

At the end of the day the starts he is getting should help him if he uses them as a tool to learn, I hate that management tossed the season, that will always piss me off, but in the long run it may pay off (shrugging my shoulders).

It is very possible that these starts will be the catalyst that gets Johnny to buckle down and learn that playing football at this level is a grind and the best grinders win, or he will fall back to being what he has been ( a party boy) and seal his own fate.

This is what I would like to see happen. Re-sign Hoyer and fully guarantee him he will have an honest opportunity to be the starter and that you believe in him. There is NO QB that I can think of that is a better mentor for Johnny and if Johnny can beat him out then we have a winner.

Further I believe with all my being that Hoyer will come back next year better then he is now because of the experience he has gained from being the starter for most of the year. People always leave out the part about Hoyer just really now understanding how tuff it is to navigate and stay on course in an NFL season. There is no position in all of sports that is harder on a player then playing QB in the NFL .

That being said this is Hoyer's 1st go at playing that roll, sure he has seen Brady do it but the experience is only really gained by having done it. Hoyer has now done that he has a record of 10-6 as our starter and that’s pretty damned good. He had this team right on the very edge of shacking this loser mentality that has repeatedly dragged us under. We simply cannot allow a player that got us that close to get away…

More later

JMHO

Carolina time of possession was 38 minutes. That says the defense can't get a 3 and out. There were 3 minutes left, there was no way the defense would get a stop with enough time left for the offense to have a chance.

good post!

Hoyer or Manziel? I think I'm ready to see what Conner Shaw can do. Hoyer can be good if he's well protected and has a running game. He lost that when Mack went down. Manziel seems incapable of learning the playbook after a season studying. He is also not used to NFL speed yet.

I want to see more of Solomon. Good motor on that kid with solid tackling. I would like to see more of what he does against the run. Mingo might lose his job to that kid. I'll take a team built of undrafted players if they do as well are our undrafted players are doing.

Christmas wish, beat the ratbirds. We've split with all the other division teams this year.

Only one thought.

I am happy I did not watch the game today other than in passing the living room while working on my truck.

I knew it would be miserable.
But the difference this week is I will not be.
May consider doing this A LOT more often in the years to come.
Might be time to bleach my gear white.

I'm sorry but you thought Johnny played much better? Better than what? Did you see the pass where he knocked himself over by throwing the ball?

I've said from the time I re-joined this board that this guy is a joke, primarily because of his attitude and work ethic, but it's been clear from the opening of pre-season that his physical tools don't translate.

I really hope this was Haslam's call and as someone else said earlier in the thread that he learns his lesson.

J/C ......

We definitely need to find another QB for next season. We cannot count on Manziel to be the guy just because of his draft status.

Now the team seems to really like Shaw, but I doubt that they will look to him to help in the event that Manziel implodes.

I wonder if the team will have to bring Shaw up to the main roster next week. Both Hoyer and Manziel were dinged in this game. Could be an interesting finish to the season.

I have no ideal why a run was called on the play that was Manziels last of the day.

Manziel needs to be a QB. Running him purposely is pure insanity.

Predictable results occurred.

That was not very smart.

I hope the Browns saved the receipts on their 2 first round picks. Maybe they can get a refund or store credit....

This is one of those 'what the hell are you watching?' type statements.

He may be the pass rushing specialist that we thought we were getting in Mingo. How did we obtain this guy?...

IIRC, we still had 2 timeouts. We could have got the ball back with slightly under 2 minutes, perhaps at our 40 yd line or so...