DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What is the contingency plan at quarterback beyond these next two games?

I think the Browns need to keep drafting for a franchise QB. Hoyer and JM are not it.

The Browns need to build the team and fit in the right QB as the final piece, not just a piece to affix other pieces onto.

or the browns got to keep a QB and build a game plan and offense around him. this change QB 3 times a year don't work.

That might work, pblack, but I think that all the pieces of the puzzle actually have to be of the same puzzle.

Sadly, I think too many people equate high draft picks with successful players. I don't make that connection.

It's my considered opinion that you get players, no matter where they're drafted (or not drafted) that fit the puzzle. Occasionally, you might find pieces that you thought might fit but turn out to be for another puzzle. When you find out that a piece doesn't fit, you discard it.

They can't even do that part right. This team is going backwards....
don't even have a good K anymore. Still,they have to keep looking for a real franchise QB,which has been the #1 issue since '99. That's got to be some kind of record for a team,to strike out as much as they do.

If we had consistent competent QB play we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Our number one priority is and will always be QB. We have more than enough pieces that chemistry will fix on other positions.

Well I was surprised when I just checked team STATs on NFL.com. Our awesome defense is actually rated worse than the offense. We are 24 for overall defense and 21 for offense. Clearly, more than just a QB issue. Let's try keeping our coaches more than one year to develop a system instead of expecting our all pro players to learn new defensive and offensive schemes every year.

Hope you are wrong otherwise it's another 4-12 season IF we are lucky.

Gee I don’t even know how to start this post but my game day thoughts are these.

Johnny played much better it’s what I want to see from him it’s just that he started in such a bad place.

He isn’t ready but that doesn’t mean he won’t be come next year, that is up to him but I did see a few small sparks and it was worlds better then a week ago. Progress was made on his part, and that’s a good thing.

There is NO QB controversy between Hoyer and Johnny, and that’s a good thing.

The controversy exists only here among the fans and in the press, and that’s a bad thing.

Management has mishandled this QB thing from jump they need to do better, had they made it clear to everyone this whole QB thing which is really a byproduct of managerial waffling wouldn’t exist and it really shouldn’t.

The simple question is this are we better with Hoyer or without? Are we better in the future with or without Johnny? The simple answer here is we are better with both for now and into the future and we all need to recognize that.

Its starts with recognizing that Johnny although he was a 1st round pick (meaningless BTW) is a guy that is a full 2 year project then maybe he is ready. So that means that everyone in Browns town should have from jump got on board with Hoyer fully. Not this we will continue to evaluate and make changes if we feel they need to be made.

That CANNOT be the public approach the private approach is always we will evaluate but to the team and in the press its all hands on deck for the starter otherwise you have the issues we are just now seeing surface. It’s not Brian against Johnny, its what’s best for the Browns and the player.

It’s not how fast we can push Johnny onto the field but how successful he is once he gets there. It’s about having a thoughtful and well put together plan to development the player and pushing him in the case of Johnny to work hard to prepare.

At the end of the day the starts he is getting should help him if he uses them as a tool to learn, I hate that management tossed the season, that will always piss me off, but in the long run it may pay off (shrugging my shoulders).

It is very possible that these starts will be the catalyst that gets Johnny to buckle down and learn that playing football at this level is a grind and the best grinders win, or he will fall back to being what he has been ( a party boy) and seal his own fate.

This is what I would like to see happen. Re-sign Hoyer and fully guarantee him he will have an honest opportunity to be the starter and that you believe in him. There is NO QB that I can think of that is a better mentor for Johnny and if Johnny can beat him out then we have a winner.

Further I believe with all my being that Hoyer will come back next year better then he is now because of the experience he has gained from being the starter for most of the year. People always leave out the part about Hoyer just really now understanding how tuff it is to navigate and stay on course in an NFL season. There is no position in all of sports that is harder on a player then playing QB in the NFL .

That being said this is Hoyer's 1st go at playing that roll, sure he has seen Brady do it but the experience is only really gained by having done it. Hoyer has now done that he has a record of 10-6 as our starter and that’s pretty damned good. He had this team right on the very edge of shacking this loser mentality that has repeatedly dragged us under. We simply cannot allow a player that got us that close to get away…

More later

on yards a game.
1st in Interceptions
1st in pass defense
we are ranked 1st in rushing yards (or worst in the NFL)
we are ranked 6th in penalty yards
14th in fumbles
21 in total points/scoring
26th in passing yards
25th in sacks

Another poster replied to some of the other numbers, so let me also add another item.

On offense, we have lost Mack and Austin for the season, and lost Cameron for a few games. I know that Barnidge has also been banged up, but overall, we have been remarkably healthy on that side of the ball.

In this game, Haden could not play. Gipson was put on IR. Taylor and Hughes are on IR. (with Hughes eligible to return next week) K'Waun Williams could not go today. Armonty Bryant was lost for the year early on. We lost Dansby for several games.

We played this game with Desir playing a lot of snaps. We played guys like Fua, who was bagging groceries a few weeks before we signed him, on the DL. We appear to have lost Kitchen in this game.

We have played "Next to the Next, to the Next, Next man up" on defense for much of this year.

It is no wonder that statistically we have struggled on defense.

We are 25th in scoring in the NFL, at 19.7 PPG scored. We are 12th in scoring defense in the NFL, allowing 21.4 PPG. We have allowed a total of 32 TD this season, which is tied for 9th in the NFL.

Defense has not been perfect, and the lack of a pass rush is a major concern, but if our offense played as well as our defense has, even with the major injuries they have suffered, we would have a winning record, and almost certainly be in playoff position right now.

our DL has been the biggest issue and I'm not surprised.

At the beginning of the season we all thought the DL was going to be the best part of the defense.

It's amazing how injuries can change that.

the good news is that they most should be back and we again will have a solid DL.

Tough to give up on Johnny after just one start.

One complaint I've read is he has no pocket presence. Well, there was no pocket against Cincinnati. The Bengals overloaded the weakest areas of our line. Grecco and Seymour were manhandled much of the day. Schwartz also did not have a great game. Crowell missed blocks as did Cameron... Johnny never had a chance.

I didn't think Hoyer would come back to Cleveland next year, but they may make him an offer. How can you not? He "won" 7 games as the Browns quarterback. That doesn't happen often in Cleveland.

I don't understand the idea of Bradford. Nor do I like it. He's due a lot of money next season. No one will trade for him. St Louis is desperate for a QB. That seems to be their missing piece and I think they roll the dice one last time with Bradford. Make him earn his keep.

And I really really don't understand the hate for Johnny after one NFL start. He's only 22! I guess that goes to show the pressure of the situation and what the Browns asked of him. He's only 22! I can't say they are anywhere near ready to throw in the towel.

I think Johnny wants this. He needs to show that he wants this. Sure, go have fun, but unfortunately he's under the microscope because of who he is... but if he is serious he should seek ways to improve this offseason so that he is in fact the starter next season. It probably wasn't as easy as he thought, but it's also possible he can in fact play.

Does anyone's opinion change after yesterday?

I'm not ready to call Manziel a bust after only 5 1/2 quarters but I don't feel comfortable going into next season with him as "the guy". I know it's only a small sample size but personally I have not seen any reason to be optimistic...yet.

Hoyer didn't look good yesterday, but he didn't look bad either. The offensive line is continuing to struggle regardless of who is back there.

Back to the original question.

How does this QB situation get resolved heading into next season?

Rizzo was saying on the RBS this morning that he has a feeling that Hoyer wants a change of scenery. Rizzo usually only communicates these "feelings" when he has some inside info. Plus, he is connected to the team.

I think most people probably suspected it, but I think that all but confirms it. I think it would be a good idea to bring Hoyer back, but it's probably unlikely.

Tag his arse. Pay him big money for one year.

Let him prove his actual worth...

I keep wondering how much our offensive woes stem from Mack being out.

Honestly, I don't know the answer,

Our offense wasn't good for the get go if one player who isn't a QB can effect the offense this bad. I don't care what the center does.

Seattle lose their center and they still moved the ball like it was nothing. Against a good defense.

Atlanta has been losing OL left and right, and they still put up points.

I am getting ready to get flamed for this... Here goes anyway.

Trade for Jay Cutler to be our starter next year, let Hoyer walk. Make JFF our back up and if he does not fully commit to learning and becoming our future QB then release him.

Then trade up and get Jameis Winston.

We have the money, we have the picks, we might be just that desperate to win. lol

If I am betting money on the Browns QB position, I am splitting my bet between 2 things .....

1) We try to sign Sanchez. Pettine reportedly likes the guy, and he has been effective in an offense that limits his exposure. (like th eone we want to run)

2) We try to move up for Mariota.

I bet that, at least one of these happens. Maybe both.

Brady was in his 2nd year with a great defense.
Manning was in the same system forever.
Luck...walked onto a good team with all the intangibles.
Farve...played for how long in the same system?
Rodgers...sat for 2 years, and then started for a team with vets all around on offense.

Ask yourself this....

Who was the last Cleveland Browns qb who actually started a season with it being his 3rd year in the same offensive system?

I'm guessing that would be Bernie.

That's a really good, and sad point, BrownieElf....

The problem, as I see it Chris, is that the team was never built before the QB was put in place.

The closest the team came to success in this way was with Couch. They drafted him #1 overall on a horrible team and tried to build it up around him. Again, other than Couch, those drafts were horrible for the Browns.

In my opinion, they should have foregone taking a QB and if they could have traded out of that spot then they should have. I don't think that taking Couch was a bad choice on pure talent of the player selected, but because they need far more than him to begin their new franchise.

Look at the selections for the Browns of the 1999 NFL Draft.

Bernie started from week 6 in his rookie season, IIRC, and then started from his 2nd season on.

I have no doubt Pettine and Farmer will be back, which is a step in the right direction, I'm just not sure that either of them will feel any confidence going into next season with only Manziel as "the guy".

I have no idea what the answer is either.

Hoyer and the messy situation is already the first victim of the Manziel hype. It first devided the fanbase, then the locker room, probably even the decision makers.

Now not even a longshot, underdog guy, who bleeds Brown and Orange wants to play for the Browns anymore....I was never high on Hoyer, to the contrary, but to read that really hurts and makes me more angry that we drafted that circus clown.

That's what some of you wanted....be prepared to eat a lot of crap. This has blowup written all over it

No we don't.

It wasn't the QB that gave up the final points to Indy.

The Browns suffered some key injuries but that's why you have to have quality depth at all positions.

Is Scott Solomon for real? Maybe. I'd like to find out if they've stumbled upon a diamond in the rough or not and he should get start to finish the season.

The front office needs to determine who they want to keep and which ones they don't. I'm speaking of non-FA players and seek to trade those that they don't think fit the team. I don't care who those players are and I don't care what kinds of contributions they've made.

They also need to decide which FAs they want to target, both Browns FA and those of other teams and try to get them.

We need 22 good football players before we need a handful of elite players and less-than-adequate players elsewhere.

I agree. I have my ideas on how to fix what ails the Browns but nobody cares to hear what they are.

I can see how what i said made you respond the way you did.

The point is, and they are all sort of different, is that they were given time.

Brady obviously came in and won a superbowl. Rodgers did as well.
Both never started in their first year.

Manning and Farve were given time to grow.
Luck is well Luck.

And while Bernie may have started 6 games in (and i was actually at that game) I'll bet he was mentally ready at that point because of his smarts. And we again had a good defensive coach.

iirc Bernie did play for 3 years under Infante.

That would be the 80's....the freakin' 80's.

Pick someone, and let them learn and grow...this is truly insane.

Will Farmer, Pettine, Shanahan and even Haslam think that Manziel is worth building and growing around though for the next 2-3 years? With Brian Hoyer walking away (probably) are they going to be content going into next season with Manziel as the clear cut #1? Especially after our team has shown it's capable of winning with competent QB play this year.

We need to see if Manziel has it next season.

We drafted him. He needs to start next season.

There's 2 good QBs coming out the draft in 2015, but IMO unless farmer feels these guys are can't miss, we need to give our first rounder a shot.

That means no QB controversy, Manziel needs to be the starter through OTAs, training camp, preseason and into the season.

Use our two first rounders either on the offensive side for talent around him or defense.

UGH JM learning from Cutler... ouch

Why not, the first pick in 2016 could be useful...

I think the obvious answer is yes... that's why they used a first rounder on him last season. They passed on Bridgewater, Carr, Garappolo, Murray, Savage, McCarron and Mettenberger because they felt Johnny was their guy.

I would be utterly shocked if we give up on Johnny after 1 NFL start...

Cutler is still better then anyone we've had in a long time. It could/would solve the problem for a starting caliber QB. Cutler has all the physical tools except the mental part at times (which I know is important).

The mental part could be solved by great coaching.

With it being a "win-now" league is Haslam going to give Pettine and Farmer 2-3 more years to attempt to develop him though?

What if Manziel is the guy, but we start 0-8 next year and he shows no progress? What then.

I would hope Haslam doesn't fire them, because he's the one who pushed for Farmer to draft Manziel. According to what I've read Farmer was really high on Derek Carr.

Just an FYI.

This Sunday we might be seeing Connor Shaw get the start.

Per BleacherReport Manziel has a "grade-2" hamstring injury and Brian Hoyer apparently injured his shoulder yesterday.

No link, just got the update on my phone.

Ugh.

I heard the same thing about an hour ago on 92.3 FM.

That's fine with me.