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2nd String
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OP
2nd String
Joined: May 2013
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The ref's and Carey got it wrong on Winn's INT and Poyer's TD.
RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
……..(f) when an opponent takes a ball that is in the possession of a runner who is on the ground;
but wait …… Poyer isn't an opponent!!!!! He's a teammate
COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS
Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete
(by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act
common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an
opponent, etc.).
Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.
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Legend
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Legend
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The ref's and Carey got it wrong on Winn's INT and Poyer's TD.
RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
……..(f) when an opponent takes a ball that is in the possession of a runner who is on the ground;
but wait …… Poyer isn't an opponent!!!!! He's a teammate
COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS
Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete
(by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act
common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an
opponent, etc.).
Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.
We won't even get a "Mibad". No one will even bring it up on the sports shows. It seems like there were a lot of bad calls this past weekend. The Saints TD that was ruled a fumble sure looked like a TD, as it looked to have broken the plane of the goal line. There were other that I saw on highlights (lowlights?) that were questionable at best. The one with the Steelers where the defender appeared to taunt his own teammate, only to receive a taunting penalty was really bizarre. I think that officiating is really on the decline. It is especially discouraging when even the replay guys cannot seem to get things right.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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You left out (e)
(e) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and
making no effort to advance; or
They claimed Winn was making no attempt to get back up.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Dawg Talker
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I think that officiating is really on the decline. It is especially discouraging when even the replay guys cannot seem to get things right.
This is the part that really, REALLY burns me! There have been soooooo many times this year that a replay either clearly showed that the call should stand or it should be overturned. On almost every single play where they brought in the guy from New York, he says the exact opposite of what ends up happening. I mean, yesterday, he even stated that he would not overturn the JG reception even though that is precisely what they did. Then, they have a play that was called incomplete and was overturned. It was almost the same as the JG catch.  I counted at least five times where our DL was literally being held by the jersey or tackled. One against Kruger where the bozos made it a point to say what a great block the TE had on him. I'm like, man, I can block like that. Just grab a hold and hang on for dear life.
#gmstrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Here is a question. If Winn handed the ball off would he have to hand it off backwards like a lateral? I don't know if he did. But wouldn't he? he cant pitch it forward if he was standing. Can he hand it off forward if he is on the ground? We got screwed all day with PI penalties and non penalties for them.
Joe Thomas #73
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Legend
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Legend
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And there was no whistle blown!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Pettine brought it up in his post game presser.
I wondered how our out player, untouched, could be ruled down..The Refs explained it but it still didn't seem to fit right.
For what it's worth (nothing) I thought we had a TD
I had heard about the Pittsburgh thing,, haven't see it, but damn, that's just odd.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Conspiracy theory time ... the hate that Manziel is getting from the players has extended to the refs as well.
It's hard to watch what has transpired in the Bengals and Carolina game and not walk away with some thought that the fix is in.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Hall of Famer
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Just think, these are the officials that were clamoring for more pay and who the fans clamored to get reinstated.
My take, fire them all and hire full-time NFL officials for the 2015 season.
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You left out (e)
(e) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and
making no effort to advance; or
They claimed Winn was making no attempt to get back up. This, he just sat there. He was down.
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Dawg Talker
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I thought it was a bad call, Winn didn't sit there and start making tea or anything, he turned around and handed the ball to Skrine. That should have been a defensive touchdown. Terrible call by the refs. Great heads up play by Winn.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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I didn't think Winn was down long enough for the whistle to blow, which is why it didn't. Bum call, but it didn't help that Poyer kept turning around to see if the whistle would blow.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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You left out (e)
(e) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and
making no effort to advance; or
They claimed Winn was making no attempt to get back up. This. Conspiracy theories shattered, he gave himself up as it was explained during the game yesterday. When you start to take a nap as you bearhug the ball, the play is over.
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Ed Mockery & Co. got a lot wrong yesterday including that and the two muggings that weren't called when Cameron was ridden like a horse. But there was at least one "invisible" holding call on Skrine on the other side of the field, away from the play that they had no problem jumping all over to assure that Newton didn't have to sit down on 4th down.
It sucked, they sucked, and the league sucks by continually allowing (or sanctioning or orchestrating) constant game manipulation by the refs.
JMHO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Legend
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I don't mind if a ref crew calls a game close .... and I don't care if they call it loose ..... as long as they call it consistently.
I see huge inconsistencies with this crew in particular.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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I thing the defining moment was when Winn was on his back and started clutching the ball as if he was in a fumble pile before realizing that Poyer was wanting the ball.
Not defending the call, but that had to be the interpretation of giving yourself up.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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Legend
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You left out (e)
(e) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and
making no effort to advance; or
They claimed Winn was making no attempt to get back up. Declares himself down?!? I felt he was just "collecting his thoughts" while he was down there! 
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Hall of Famer
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If you've been a Browns fan for longer than a decade, you've seen it dozens of times.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Legend
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If you've been a Browns fan for longer than a decade, you've seen it dozens of times. And often from this particular crew. (and not only Browns games) I have often wondered if they have someone betting on the games, given some of the calls they make.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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The conspiracy theorist in me has always wondered how Vegas gets so close on their betting lines.
I understand that they have a track on inside info, but come on.
You can find pockets here and there where they over or under estimate something, but for the most part, you have to play line reactions rather than make predictions based on the teams.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Donaghey scandal was the tip of the iceberg and someday something will crash hard.
Just too much money involved.
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Dawg Talker
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I figure they are on the phone with vegas when they are in the review booth.
"we need 3 points or we lose 500million." blah blah
Wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Legend
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J/C:
I think it was the right call on the field.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Legend
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Legend
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I think an Elephant memory on us being the only fans in the history of the NFL to run the refs off the field throwing Water Bottles at them. Btw respected by other teams fans more than not...but I think we are paying the price for that one!
Note, all these guys are like 60-70 years old, they dye their hair but they are ancient. If the league does more copy cat to the Chip Kelly hurry up offense. These guys will retire or need resuscitation during games!
jmho that is what happens when they have a strong union.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The stupid thing about the call is that had Winn sat there, clutched the ball for a minute and thought he "had given himself up," If he had turned around and spiked the ball or put the ball on the ground to celebrate and a Carolina player picked it up and ran for a touchdown. It would have been a touchdown Carolina.
Why are there so many inconsistencies in the NFL. How many times do you see a young player make a catch, roll on the ground and hop up to drop or spike the ball in celebration, then the opposing player picks it up and it's declared a fumble.... How come that guy isn't ruled to have given himself up? Because clearly he has!
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Does anyone have a youtube on this play? I can't believe nothing was posted.
I was in a bar watching with no sound. I never got the jest of the call until the day after.
I read the rule above. Wow, since when have the refs been so schooled in the book to make a split second game decision.
I agree with the poster above. As a Browns fan, I've seen calls like this more than I care to.
I wish I can blame the refs for the loss. Browns did some stupid things to lose. It sucks sucking for so long.
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Legend
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There is something on NFL.com under the Cleveland Browns videos that shows the play a few times, I believe.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Dawg Talker
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I think that when Winn rolled over, he was trying to make it clear that he had caught it and had possession, then Poyer says give it to me since obody touched him. Clearly a TD.
I have seen many times a def. player fall on a fumble and stand up with it and be told to run. After standing there for a second they take off. Same thing happened here. Winn makes a great catch, and rolls over to show he has possession, and Poyer says give me the ball your not down and runs it in.
They can use any BS explanation they want. That was a TD...period.
#gmstrong
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Panthers
17 Bad call on Winn's INT
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