DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Panthers 17 Postgame Thoughts

Johnny played like crap.
Hoyer played like crap.

The FO, without Jimmy Haslem, needs to do a gut check on this Manziel dilemma this offseason. If they feel he is a lost cause, I don't care if it's just two games, try and make a move for a QB if you like someone. And settling for Hoyer is not an option.

That was the most bland offensive game plan/execution I've ever seen and that is an indictment on Manziel and either a lack of readiness, intelligence, work ethic, or quite frankly a combination of all the above. I don't think I've ever been so disgusted by a QB play than watching Manziel-- and we've all seen some bad ones. I hope he get his stuff together, because if not, his tenure will be short and sweet.

Benjamin has the play of the game and that should be a highlight replayed in Berea all offseason showing the commitment to make a big play even when you are out of the playoffs. If we had any sort of offense that might have been the game changing play. Well done, Travis!

Mingo is garbage.

I liked the effort of Desir and Gilbert. Skrine showed up with his patented 2 defensive holdings/pass interferences.

I thought Kirksey played well and Dansby has another great game.

Don't think Bitonio had a particularly good game. If fact I've seen better from the offensive line.

Whitner is the most overrated player on this team.

Man, this team really needs a QB. It's so frustrating that talent is here and it is being wasted. Very frustrating.

Draft needs: DT/DE, OLB, WR, SS, TE#2

Rant over.

JM is no sacred cow; we dare not criticize him. Really? I grant he is a rookie, a very hyped rookie. Seems to handle interviews better than games. He is not ready for this and can't carry his weight offensively yet. But he has some serious problems, and needs to have some issues resolved. I question how coachable he is as far as results in game.
Long on talk, eager to tell us how he feels, how he will work, and I get it, feed the ego & push the shirts.

But I am not one who wants him out there for intangibles; we need tangible results and scores. I am not in love with the hype of extending the play, that is when it breaks down, like should be a rarer thing. Hasn't outrun everybody, certainly not Cam caliber of play IMO. Just hope we seriously consider how much work this demands. Not sure I am willing to make JFF the NFL QB he is not while we pile up losses doing that on gameday.

Agreed with the above comments, Memphis. What did you think of Solomon? Perhaps (!!!) he could give us the pass rushing specialist we need...

j/c

Our draft needs are about as dire as last year's IMO ... mostly because our FA spending went to replacing positions that left (MLB, SS)

IMO we need:

QB
DT
DE
LB
TE
WR
OL Depth

and probably more

My postgame thought is that the Browns played like a young 7-win team still learning how to put everything together on a consistent basis.

The first year of new coaches, players, and a GM is about to end and people need to not panic about the team not going from 4-12 to a playoff team within that amount of time. My goodness, folks. Remove the emotion and just look at the situation for what it is. The team is better and the organization is trying to build upon that. All of the talk about possibly firing Pettine or drafting a QB in the first round of the draft needs to stop and this group of players and the front office need to be given a chance to grow and succeed. The ridiculous clamoring for instant results and change if those instant results aren't achieved is moronic and a true sign of fans not understanding what it takes to build a winning organization. I hope Pettine stays on as head coach for next season since he improved the team's record by 3 wins and showed some promising signs as a first-time head coach. I hope Manziel stays as the QB for next year instead of being thrown away after ONE AND A HALF GAMES. I hope Farmer stays as GM after drafting some nice pieces and grabbing some free agents which panned out. Let's build THIS team instead of giving up on it based on the fact that it didn't make the playoffs this year when it honestly never had any business being in the discussion in the first place. Fans whine all the time about how there is no consistency, then pull a 180 and want the team blown up every season after it doesn't make the playoffs. What a joke.

"We have the best fans in the league!" I'm not sure about that. We Browns fans might be the most loyal, but that doesn't make us the best when we don't know how to truly support the organization and its goals. So many Browns fans are unrealistic in their expectations, all I can do is shake my head.

This. I can't believe how bad the play calling has been with Johnny on the field. Shannahan has no idea how to get the most from JF's talents. Let him play regular QB...when the play breaks down, then he can improvise. This is where he shines...not designed runs.

Just frustrating.

jc...

Watched Pettines presser last night. I wish he would stop saying he needs to watch the tape. Man, that is annoying.

Other than that, he seemed really ticked off and trying not to explode. I liked that. We have to give him time to get this head coaching thing figured out. I had no interest in giving Chud more time. He was a dud. It was plain to see. Guys didn't play for him and the players didn't respect him. There's been no indication of anything like that with Pettine. He tells it like it is ...how about those quotes about Gilbert and West...but he's just being honest. Not really throwing guys under the bus but not leaving room for the media to speculate either and he's not saying anything that the team doesn't already know.

I was just glad to see him highly agitated. Or it could have been he was just lost and didn't have any answers. But I think he's smarter than that. This is who you chose Haslam...let him see it through.

Nice post, Lemmy. Pretty much says it all...

He was drafted by the titans in the 7th at 211 overall. He has been on the titans, jets, and bucs. He's played in a total of 21 games in obviously limited time. He's got a career total of 16 tackles and 2 sacks, with one of them yesterday.

Pick Analysis: Solomon is the type of player NFL teams would love to have roaming among their front seven, not necessarily for his natural ability, but because of the obvious competitive spirit he brings to a defense. He has been a four-year starter for Rice -- after a medical redshirt year, he came back from a foot injury with a slight hitch, but displayed the same motor that made him a prospect in the first place. He has fifth- or sixth-round value based on his productivity and hopes that he continues to recover from a lingering foot issue.

A few thoughts:

--Manziel was awful again. I have not seen one on-field positive from him.

--Hoyer actually gave me a bit of hope when he entered.

--Crowell is a pretty good runner, but our center is killing us.

--DeSir and Gilbert got abused. Can't believe either was drafted where they were.

--That number 54 guy played w/a good motor.

--I liked Mingo last year, but he is yet another huge disappointment.

--We get absolutely no pass rush.

--Skrine is pretty good. Need to keep him.

--4 catches for 45 yards for the "best WR in the NFL."

--Bitonio struggled yesterday.

--Schwartz made a couple of nice seal blocks.

--Robertson is a pretty good player.

--The Steelers are in the playoffs and we are not. What's new on The Merry-Go-Round of Misery?

Center has killed us since Mack went down. We should draft a center/guard in the later rounds this year.
#54 is Scott Solomon. Please see my post above.
I don't think much of Desir, but I don't want to give up on Gilbert yet. If nothing else, we should have him returning kicks. I think Skrine and K'Waun Williams have taken Gilbert's job, and he owes the team.
We need new blood on the DL. Please see Solomon above. We need the pass rusher we've been missing.
The OL will be very good again once Mack is back, but we need a better back up for him.
Robertson is an ace. I'm glad we got him.

Pretty much agree with all of that except this. I actually think that Desir has shown vast improvement since his woeful pre-season. He made a few nice plays against Kelvin Benjamin that show me that he can play someday. Sure, KB got a few out-routes completed but our DBs never gave up the big play.

Friend of mine said same thing, "at least JM played better" what did he do that could be called better?

And Desir was always around the ball, too. He had a couple of tough passes against him that were just excellent throws. One I remember was thrown just over his fingertips.

I thought that Desir played a pretty solid game. He broke up a pair of passes, including one that would have/should have been a TD, except for his play.

Desir had 7 solo tackles in the game, a team high. He got picked on a lot, but never backed down.

The passes Desir gave up were: (based on the play by play .... I am not sitting through the misery that was this game again just to make absolutely sure I didn;t miss any)

7 yard catch on 2nd and 10.
5 yard catch on 1st and 10.
Illegal us of hands penalty.
10 yard catch on 3rd and 5.
8 yard catch on 3rd and 5.
Incomplete pass defensed by Desir.
12 yard catch on 1st and 10.
Incomplete pass defensed by Desir.
34 yard catch on 2nd and 9.
Solo tackle on Stewart at 30 yards. (the rest of the defense missed him, and Desir, at least, kept him from scoring)

Considering that Desir was playing his 2nd pro game, and played against just about every receiver the Panthers had, even having some success against Benjamin, I was fairly impressed with his effort. He wasn't perfect, and he did give up one big play, but that was the only big play he allowed. He prevented the "walk off" TD run at the end of the game, when the rest of the defense whiffed.

He wasn't perfect, but he did a lot of nice things int he game, especially considering that we struggled to get any pressure on Newton on most plays.

He didn't play any better, other than not looking quite as flustered, in my opinion. It's a good thing it was only his second start in his career, though.

Thinking about all this ineptness on the field, I have a thought. All the hype at the stadium: huge jumbotrons, ugly orange helmets blasting fireworks as the team is introduced, a dog on the field called "Swagger" who has nothing to do with this team, all the "improve the fan experience" talk..........all this is silly meaningless glamor.

What could really improve the fan experience is to put a winning regime in place from the top down and a winning team on the field. Forget all the silly frills, they do absolutely nothing in the end to improve the fan experience. Put the money, instead, in to the team to put a winner on the field each and every game for 60 minutes.

Bitonio has promise.
Manziel showed absolutely nothing worthy of a first round pick
Backup center needs an upgrade
Get a big name WR.....maybe Fitzgerald ...yeah right...he would never come here
Cleveland Browns are the laughing stock once again....Jerry Jones is thanking his lucky stars it's not him
Hoyer would make a decent back up
Bring up Connor Shaw in the off season and OTAs, see what he can do
Strengthen the run D
Solomon looks promising

I sat last night watching others in my family revel in the Steeler playoff scenario once again
I'm sad

Completely turning an organization around in one season doesn't happen, it has to be pieced together. Changing the stadium experience is a part of that change and was able to be done now. So, why wouldn't they? There are different Browns employees handling the building of the team than those building the brand. One has nothing to do with the other, so I don't see a problem with them enhancing the stadium experience and brand as they continue the long road of improving the roster and on-filed results.

Bitonio has promise.--Yep.
Manziel showed absolutely nothing worthy of a first round pick.--He has started 2 games and played in a total of one and a half games, there's no need to panic.
Backup center needs an upgrade.--Yep, like most teams in the NFL. The backup center is not a priority for any team.
Get a big name WR.....maybe Fitzgerald ...yeah right...he would never come here.--You say to get a big name receiver, then make a joke about how one wouldn't go to Cleveland. That's a clear indication that it isn't easy to do. Also, how about we get a big talent WR rather than a big name one?
Cleveland Browns are the laughing stock once again....Jerry Jones is thanking his lucky stars it's not him.--The Jets, Titans, Jaguars, Raiders, Redskins, Bears, and Buccaneers say hi.
Hoyer would make a decent back up.--Yep, and nothing more.
Bring up Connor Shaw in the off season and OTAs, see what he can do.--He's Connor Shaw, he can't do anything. He is not a diamond in the rough, the savior, or a person to be relied upon to do anything for the team.
Strengthen the run D.--Definitely.
Solomon looks promising.--Just like nobody should think they know too much about Manziel's stench after only two games, let's also not get too excited about Solomon after one game. He had a decent game yesterday, let's wait and see what he can do if given more opportunities.

I sat last night watching others in my family revel in the Steeler playoff scenario once again
I'm sad.--We are all sad, it sucks.

but again! He has done nothing in those 2 starts to make you think he will even be average in the NFL.. Nothing where you think, WOW! He might be good. . Heck I remember Quinn making a nice pass in the preseason his first year where I thought he might be OK! I am pretty Optimistic, I will give any QB benefit of the Doubt and again see nothing.. Not to mention his greatest asset is his ability to run and he hasn't even been able to do that. Which in my opinion I didn't think he would stay healthy very long doing that but didn't think he would go down this easily

It is obvious that Johnny needs to put in a ton of work in the off-season if he expects to play QB in the NFL. I do not think that the Browns can afford to go "all in" on Manziel, and they better have a backup plan in place in case he proves unable to improve dramatically. I suspect that we will look at a guy like Sanchez, who Pettine reportedly liked in NY, and who can play effectively in the "QB limited" style offense we want to run.

Manziel better glue his ass down in front of the video tape machine and study every snap from the whole team last year. He should also put in tape of Brees from previous seasons to see how a shorter QB can succeed. He has to do the work, or he will be just another 1st round bust.

He also has to understand that he is now a marked man, and if he is out doing goofy stuff with friends, it will be presented as if he isn't doing his job .... even on days, or months off. He needs to largely disappear from the public eye. I think that a lot of this stuff does also affect his relationship with his teammates.

I agree with everything you said, YTown, but this stood out to me.

He's even more of marked man on the field. On the play he got hurt yesterday, those defenders looked like they tried to drive him THROUGH the ground. And, it was the same against Cincy. Those guys didn't want to just tackle him, they wanted to hurt and embarrass him.

I think every team will continue to do that until he proves/disproves that he can/can't be a true NFL QB.

One of the things that drove me crazy this week was our lack of backside LB containment. On at least two of Cam's big runs, our backside LB took two steps inside not only taking themselves out of the play but then letting Olsen get out and block our secondary defenders. Once it was Mindo and the other was Sheard and in both cases Olsen got rave reviews from the annoucing team on how he's improved so much as a blocker. He did have nice blocks but they were on guys on the edge as our outside linebackers were stuck in the pile...so frustrating!

I thought Desir was pretty good.

Crowell has disappointed me lately. Goes down way too easy. Just a fingertip touch and he is on the ground. I fear we have no running back on this roster that we can depend on.

Gilbert apparently has attitude and work ethic issues. West has work ethic issues. I think Farmer drafted West because he got wind the Ravens wanted him and he wanted to put one over on them. Not to mention he's a dime a dozen back. Farmer got way too cute in last year's draft trying to be smarter than everyone else instead of being solid. His arrogance is actually very off putting. I hope we don't see that again this year. Stay where you are, take the best player available. Stop getting cute.

Steelers in the playoffs again? All is right in the world. As I mentioned before, some of you guys must have been real jerks in your previous life.

I applaud Vers for his honesty, but you know things are REALLY bad when he's ready to bail out on Manziel this quickly.
Even I am surprised HOW bad he's looked. It's incredibad

.. " Shanny isn't a bad play caller "

Good a place to jump in as any..

The O and D Coordinators are like Chess players to me. Move counter move , thinking one or two moves ahead .. Opinion ; Shanny is a lousy Chess player . Calmer heads ( SEASON IN REVIEW ) Will have to come to the same conclusion .. What to do about it will be the interesting part ! As you have stated on several occasions ; changing the entire O because you THINK it might work better has insane all by itself .

Of course you will want to up grade the talent level , and certain areas are a no brainier ..

My post game thoughts...

#1 - Where the hell has Scott Soloman been all season? #54 was an absolute beast yesterday! This guy HAS to be back next season to be a part of our defensive line rotation. I saw they had to start double teaming him at one point yesterday.

#2 - Pierre Desir looks like he might turn into a late round steal. He looked really good and confident yesterday. If we bring back Skrine and draft a backup safety (as Leohnard is going to retire) we'll have the most talented and deepest secondary in the entire league.

#3 - Where was Terrance West and or Glenn Winston? Crowell wasn't bad but he had way too many negative runs yesterday.

#4 - I saw Bitonio get worked a couple of times. He's been great a majority of the season but I hope he studies film of himself. Hoyer took that big sack at the end of the game because Bitonio turned his head away and left McDonald (at a very poor angle) to take on that defender 1-on-1.

#5 - Johnny Manziel looked ineffective. Not much better than last week. I don't have much confidence going into next season with him.

#6 - Brian Hoyer looked confident, but he didn't fair much better as the offensive line played way too inconsistent. Too many negative runs allowed, pressures and sacks.

#7 - Our defense wasn't bad considering all the injuries. We held the Panthers to right around 200 yards passing and only 17 points. Hats off to them for playing hard the whole way.


I didn't expect much out of yesterdays game.

Still frustrating seeing these close losses.

I love the amount of talent we have on this roster, we just need to get this QB situation figured out and we need ALL OF OUR injured players back and healthy....(missing 9 regular players yesterday).

j/c:

Cleveland Browns— Performances of Note

Scott Solomon, OLB: +5.9

Breakdown: Solomon was called up from the Browns’ practice squad on Saturday and found himself on the field for 26 plays on defense. He didn’t do much in the limited amount of time with the Buccaneers early in the season, but we saw a different player on Sunday. He showed great quickness as a pass rusher as he picked up a strip-sack and four hurries on just 12 pass rushes while also making a couple stops in run defense. It will be interesting to see if he can duplicate his success in the final game of the season.

Signature Play: (Q3 0:33) The Panthers run away from Solomon, but his great burst off the line allows him to chase down Jonathan Stewart in the backfield for a loss on 3rd-and-5.

Pierre Desir, CB: +0.3

Breakdown: It was a mixed bag for the fourth-round pick who started in place of the injured Joe Haden. He gave up six first downs including the one via penalty, but was never beaten too badly as the six catches he allowed only went for 61 yards and 14 yards after the catch. He did have two impressive pass defenses that did help offset the first downs allowed.

Signature Play: (Q4 7:22) Covering fellow rookie Kelvin Benjamin, Desir gets just enough of his hand on the ball to prevent the catch and touchdown.

Chris Kirksey, ILB: +2.3

Breakdown: Kirksey did not play as much as he had in recent games, but he still had a run stop among a few good plays in run defense.

Signature Play: (Q1 11:11) Kirksey quickly gets up field for contain but is actually able to take down Stewart for a loss on 3rd-and-3. The 6-yard loss moved the field goal attempt back to 49 yards which ended up being wide right.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/22/refo-browns-panthers-week-16/

He missed one omitting the outrageous hustle by Benji to get the ball back after the INT. His momentum took him away from the play, then he got blocked one going for the defender, but he still managed to run across the field, catch up and punch the ball out while he was making the tackle... I think he may have recovered it too, but I'm not 100% certain of that. Fantastic!

Yeah, he basically stole the ball from the returner...

play of the game for sure.

It was the longest 9 yard gain I've seen in some time.

I wonder what the advanced metric, or whatever the distance calculator that tells how long a player has run as opposed to just their yardaged gained is called, would be on that play?

A guy gives up 6 first downs and it is deemed as a positive performance?

The guy made a couple of good plays, but was clueless for most of the game. Some of these "experts" are just as dumb as the fans.

Hmmm...perhaps your evaluation is a bit harsh. His coverage was generally tight and the passes were well thrown balls/location...

And perhaps it is right on.

At QB it's Hoyer, FA, Manziel as a 3rd, Shaw to PS
At RB, I think our kids hit a wall. They will be better.
At OL, clearly need a quality backup at center. Add depth where you can.
At DL or LB, we simply need 1-2 guys to get after the QB.

I'll let you guys figure out LB and DB. I don't really like Shanahan but ANOTHER change in systems just sets us back.

We have some pieces and I hope that Pettine and Farmer get another 3-4 years to build something and get us to the playoffs.

To my eye, it was very positive, particularly for a rookie with virtually no on-field playing time. It seems a good indicator for the future...

They play any defense at all on that last drive, and the Browns win. They drove the field with no effort, it was putrid to watch.

The offense sucked, but they did get the lead back. The defense blew it.