DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Even More Johnny Manziel discussion . . .

It certainly does.

Honestly? There SHOULD be some doubts... Serious doubts!

I doubt he will even be here next season, but only time will tell.

I think to fall in love with the kid in the first place, you had to suspend reality a bit, and pretend that he could do what he did in college in the NFL.

I would imagine that those people would've woken up by now. You don't have to write the kid off or call for his head...but to sit there and say things like 'he's going to be a superstar QB' and 'I have no doubts he's the franchise guy'....

I'm really running out of words to describe the dissonance in logic.


I guess it's a steep drop from 'we'll win by 30 if Manziel plays, lose by 30 if Hoyer plays'.

Johnny Manziel needs to start walking the walk

BEREA, Ohio — Johnny Manziel said some of the right things about his future with the Cleveland Browns on Tuesday.





Manziel
It shouldn’t be surprising.

Manziel has been saying a lot of right things since he decided to leave Texas A&M and declare for the NFL draft, where he wound up with the Browns.

Here’s a sampling:

"If you want to be the greatest, you have to prepare like it. That’s why I'm out here trying to be the best player possible. Whether it's in the film room or the weight room, there are days where it's hard, though, when it's a struggle."

And:

“I'm trying to show people I've grown up and I've learned from my experiences. I feel like you're a stupid person if you continue to make the same wrong decisions. I don't want to hear, 'Oh, anybody in his situation would have been doing the same thing.' I'm 100 percent responsible for my actions.”

And:

“People can call me crazy, and it's not cockiness, [but] I'm going to put myself in [position] to win the Super Bowl every single year.”

And:

“Football and family will always be the most important things in my life. The main thing for me is to play the game with a certain type of passion and a certain type of respect that football deserves. It's a humbling game. It can come and go at the drop of a hat."

Those comments were made by Manziel last February. He said them as he prepared for the draft with quarterback guru George Whitfield in San Diego, when he lobbied reporters John McLain of the Houston Chronicle and Charean Williams of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram to be the first pick of the Houston Texans.

If they sound similar to the comments Manziel made in Berea on Tuesday … well it’s because they are.

Manziel is very adept with the media. He says many right things.

The problem he’s had in Cleveland is doing them. This is not to say that Manziel was a problem off the field in Cleveland. He hasn’t been. He’s been a likable guy who’s gone about his business.

But when he got on the field for his opportunity he was not prepared. He did not prepare like he was the greatest, and he more or less admitted that on Tuesday when he said he wasn’t ready for the transition to the pros.

It’s to Manziel’s credit that he stood up and took some accountability for what has turned into a lost rookie season.

But he didn’t really take entire credit, because he also said he wouldn’t change a thing he’s done since he was drafted. How’d that work out again?

At this point it’ll be more to Manziel’s credit if he does something about it.

The words have been coming for almost an entire year.

It’s time for actions to follow.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...=espnapi_public

Even though they are completely different people, this all very much reminds me of Tim Tebow.

It seems to be quite evident that LeBron's marketing team has instructed Manzeil to talk positive and change his image in the off season to try and avoid an outright cut by the Browns organization. Once the Browns select the FA QB they want Manzeil should be gone.

I certainly hope not.

I thought Johnny was a first round talent and would not have said that if i didnt think he would be a very good player and I havent seen anything to really change that. The main thing he needs is reps and experience and its why I would have started him early. pettine went for the slow groom process of learning how to be a QB off the field, which means he still has to go through the process of learning by reps and experience on the field.

In the 2nd game he was really doing a much better job of going to the right place with the ball even though good things didnt always result from those decisions. Gordon drops the 3rd, the roll out screen is blown up twice by a great defensive play. Cameron is completely mugged on another 3rd down play. We didnt see that in game one and thus there was noticeable growth. Kid needs reps.

I cant say that I dont have a lot of doubts about Gilbert at this point because lets face, you really dont see players and coaches call a rookie out like that unless he just isnt getting it.

They will give Johnny every chance to take the job next year. I think he will put in the work and we will see a 2nd year player instead of a nervous rookie in his first start.

It's too early to give up on Manziel. The people who hated him before the draft are rejoicing in his horrid start. They are piling on in a gleeful manner. Seems odd to root against a Brown, but to each their own.

Brandon Weeden was sacked by the flag and threw four picks in his debut, sucked throughout his time here, yet he had a ton of support on the boards. JM has played less than two games and you guys are calling for him to be cut?

Manziel has not looked good thus far. He has a long, long way to go if he wants to be a decent NFL QB, but the story is not over yet. Stop rejoicing because he started off poorly.

Justin Gilbert has been a much bigger bust and is being called out by his teammates way more than JM has been, but he gets a free pass.

How is that relevant, you ask...Well, it is relevant that it is a clear-cut indicator that your personal disdain for one player is clouding your evaluation process.

It seems to me that the 8th overall pick should play better than the 22nd overall pick. It also is safe to say that it is easier to play CB than QB. It is also telling that it's Gilbert who is being criticized more by teammates and coaches than JM has. And Rish reported that Gilbert said he would rather sleep in than study like Williams has.

This Manziel hatred has taken on a mob mentality. Kick him when he is down and gloat because he is not succeeding. Looks like I am going to have to defend the kid, which is going to be tough because he hasn't shown me a darn thing on the field that makes me think he will succeed.

That was a nice post Vers.

Nearly every poster that has taken joy in Manziel failing to this point has let the cat slip out of the bag ..."I never liked Manziel before the draft".

DJ defended Weeden until the bitter end. He liked Weeden before the draft. DJ, sorry to pick on you, but it's a perfect example of what Vers is talking about. You're not the worst offender though.

I will defend those people somewhat as well. Just because the Browns draft a guy doesn't mean you have to change your opinion on someome either.

But where does being a fan become more important than being right? Sometimes I think that people would rather be right than be wrong and see the Browns be successful. I love studying people and notice that some people around here are kind of quiet or not as verbose when the Browns are having success. As soon as the wheels fall off they post more and their posts become more verbose. Often times its to say I told you so.

Maybe it's just like how everyone grieves in their own way, everyone "fans" in their own way as well.

It's tough being a Browns fan any way you slice it.

To the rescue!

I have to say, much like Vers, that I haven't seen anything in Manziel that gives me cause to defend him. So I won't try. But what I will say is that no matter the player, seven quarters of football is not enough to burn them at the stake. It's not enough evidence to gauge their future in the league.

And I'm one of those who didn't like the idea of drafting Manziel. I couldn't believe he was chosen with Teddy still on the board. I still believe that was a mistake. But Manziel is a Brown. He was the QB drafted. And he's only played seven quarters of football.

I'm not going to even attempt to say that I think he's the answer at QB. I'm also not going to say that he can't be. As a Browns fan I'm going to hope he works hard and improves to be the answer we've been looking for. Because it's far too early to say he can't be and it would be the best for the team I love so much.

I only recently came back to these boards and have been very critical of Manziel but at no point have I rooted for his failure and I don't think most of his critics here have either. I want the Browns to win and if it takes Manziel pulling his head out of his ass to do that, the great but that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe it will be the case and would prefer to have the team move in another direction rather than waste time on him.

What some of you seem to be saying is that you're not seeing anything on the field but that you're going to defend him because he's a Brown? That's even more reason to be hypercritical! If you truly believe he's the man as some do then great, argue as vehemently as you can that, that is the case and he deserves more and more chances but if you don't think he's the answer then damn straight call him out and for his ouster. Why in the world would you want to keep someone around if they're the answer? (That's not to say that one or the other position is right or wrong.)

It's very simple. Because it's far too early to tell if he can be the answer or not.

Some of us are smart enough to realize you can't predict the future of a player based on seven quarters of football. And some of us are not.

If those smart people are evaluating him on just 7 quarters of football then I think your assessment of their intelligence might be a little skewed. LOL

Have a Merry Christmas.

I was fine supporting JM... Now I'm not.. Because of his performance ? Yeah it sucked.. Did I expect poor play ? Sure did...

JM had his collage glory... I guess that makes him making all these commercials as a Browns QB before he even starts a game justified... LOL

Maybe blame the media and the NFL for making someone bigger than he is to make a buck... If your going to make this player higher than the almighty and jack up the fans..then they better be ready to take the heat when the jack can't get up...

JM ran his mouth about not taking the NFL serious... and he didn't... and as a fan he made me look like an ass because I supported him over Hoyer...So hate... nah.. but damn close for his damn immaturity... GUESS what Johnny...you should have stayed another year in school and grown up a bit... MAYBE you would have Appreciated the chance you got and worked your ass off to show it..

I can't handle people telling me I'm an ass because I don't want to be patient and support this immature ass who didn't give a DAMN about being a BROWN.

And some of us are able to predict the future of a player after 7 quarters...

Some of us learned from the past 22 failures to know .

Seems like QB is the only position where most coaching staffs seems to worry about the fragile mental state of QB's and play hard ball with everyone else. It's like QB's can call out any other team members and coaches while nobody has a pass to call out QB's - they just "need to play better and make less mistakes"...

And some assume if the little ball in roulette wheel lands on black 22 times it will the 23rd and states he knew all along.

It seems like the fan judgement is coming more from his sayings of not putting his full heart and soul into the game. For a passionate fan base, that would seem to be the worst you can do - play like you don't care.

That being said, it seems like Johnny never thought he was going to see the field this year behind Hoyer - who played well enough to keep him sidelined - and Johnny fell victim to a second-place mentality. When his number was called, he was unprepared [or so it seems] to handle the spot.

Secondly, can we have a playbook matched to a JM skillset? Seems like Hoyer and JM have 2 diffent styles - so how do you have O schemes in place that compliment both? Do NFL offenses change weekly based upon opponents and if so, can that late of a shift in QB styles really put a detriment on all aspects of the O?

Seems like we are always looking for consistency and yet we implode annually and start over. With JM on the sideline, everyone on the planet is just waiting for JM to get in, especially with all the hype of his career. I was not a fan of starting JM as a rookie, but having him on the sideline for a season seems to be another consistency hit.

After the last 2 games, IMO, we should have called him the starter from day one - fully committed to his development for a few years and go All IN. Was that our mistake from the get go?

Notice how much I in these interviews? Concerns me a good bit. Team instead, please.

Seems like a snakeoil salesman who believes he gets a pass for lousy play if he says the right things. Might be wrong on it, but he was very bad, worse than I expected. No way would I buy into this without him backing it up. Walk the walk first. Limit the talk to your play. So much to fix and prove. JMHO.

I truly hate watching bad football. If he can win and get some fundamentals down, play for years and I will celebrate every win with you. But first I need to respect your body of work and improvement. Not there yet for me.

Wake up JM. It is the NFL calling.

I have always thought that a team leader should use "I" when talking about bad stuff, and "we" when talking about the good.

lol..i think he got that wake-up call. Now we get to see what he does with it.

Probably go back to sleep.

I find the Manziel debate comical. I mean come on! No one has experienced a young wet behind the ears kid strutting his thing entering the work force. Later finding out the schooling he cruised through is nothing like the real world.

After missing goals and promotions he comes to realize he needs to attack differently. How is Johnny Football any different? Average Joe's life isn't on the daily news.

Let's hope little Johnny sees the light sooner than later. Potential is there if used properly.

Almost worse than the "I's" were these statements...

"...and that's what they intended on me coming in here doing, just giving them seven quarters, giving them a couple games and then looking somewhere else, I don't feel like that's a lot of commitment and sticking with somebody."

"...so if that's what they think is enough to evaluate a quarterback, then that's really up to them."

It just seems so divorced from the team mentality as if it's him against the coaches and front office. Would it have been to hard to put it in other terms like "I don't believe Coach would make an assessment on the basis of 7 quarters but I know that I have to be better in order to give him the confidence to play me." Same idea but puts the onus back on him. Again, he's a kid but with the marketing people he's been working with since before he was drafted that sort of language would seem to be a no-brainer.

One thing I don't do is say i knew all along... I will say I have learned from the past and I don't see anything now that changes my mind

I didn't have any personal disdain for Manziel, nor did I want him to fail. We needed a star QB and even though I wouldn't have picked him in the first place, I jumped on the JM bandwagon. It was a LOT of fun... until he started playing. Then the party was over.

I'm one of the people who think he should be traded. From what I saw so far? Come on - let's be honest here - he's a bust. It was like a horror movie for us fans. A punch in the face. A stake through our hearts.

I know some of you out there say it's too early to tell, but what we saw is all we have to go on right now. And what we saw was a colossal failure. (Sorry if I'm being too dramatic with that last line.)

If we end up keeping him I hope I'm wrong about him, I really do, but I just don't see him succeeding in the NFL.

Regardless of what you or I think.......Merry Christmas everyone!!!

j/c:

I guess I'm guilty and fall into the category of posters who have not been as critical on Gilbert as I have been on Manziel.

Perhaps that's been because I've seen progression, although small, of Gilbert as the season has gone on.

Perhaps as a QB, and as important as the position is to getting this team over the hump, I've seen Manziel do next to nothing that warrants "average" play.

Perhaps being under the assumption that Haslem might have pulled the trigger on the selection, I tend to lean on it being not about talent developing than the marketing ability running dry.

But seeing that both teams currently in the running for the #1/#2 picks need a QB, I will pray Manziel grows up and starts taking the NFL and his growth seriously. Because as he has been quoted in the past 24 hours, he clearly is not.

But it is fair to give a player more than two games to prove his worth, and as I wrongly advocated for Mingo to get his due, I guess I need to do the same for Johnny 'Effin Football.

Agreed. I mean, who among us can't remember the first time we were photographed rolling a bill in a bathroom?

Seriously, though, everyone keeps treating anything that comes up with this kid as an isolated incident or a youthful indiscretion.

Being concerned about him being an idiot isn't an eyeroll worthy opinion. It's a legitimate concern.

All I'm saying is give it a year or two. Life's lessons really do work. If he truly wants to be the starter, he'll return next season changed. Life will give him another bold lesson. Year after next he'll come back changed for the better. Meanwhile, Hoyer does his thing.

Of course, Johnny comes back his normal self and gets placed with the other trash at the curb. Life's lesson on steroids.

No, it's actually perfect example of board hypcrisy. Funny you mention the Weeden debates as an example "to root for Browns" and applaud the biggest of all hypocrites on here, Vers, of all people for it considering his comments on exactly Weeden. Sitting on the other side of that fence, I know for a fact how much hatred there was against him from day 1 right after the draft, same as with Manziel. I don't remember those who hated the pick having kind words after his first start, same as Manziel now. Vers and others hated the guy with a passion. I can admit that I hated the Manziel pick too, so what? His apologists loved and gushed about him, are their arguments and apologies more valid, because of it?
Playing the "less of a fan" card is lame and I never did, because, frankly, it's a stupid non argument trying to shut people off. All this rah rah now about "rooting against Browns", "it's too early" etc somehow didn't apply back then. You guessed why: OPINION. It's hypocritical. All this window dressing of opinions and acting as if being on a higher horse morally, it's laughable. Vers has already become a caricature of himself for his arbitrary flip flopping. Don't go down that path too please.

Back to Manziel: as has been said by everyone....he has shown NOTHING, and that's the problem here. Even Weeden was 26/37, 322yds, 2/0 TD/INT in his 2nd start and at least flashed some ability here and there. Same can be said about McCoy, Frye and even Quinn (or Tannehill who was mentioned by Mourg). Manziel probably didn't even throw for as many 1st downs an entire half in his 2nd start. That's a new low. He looked even worse than those before him. Manziel looked unprepared, overwhelmed and overmatched all at once. That's alarming, especially consdering the fact that Manziel got MUCH MORE time on the bench compared to our other fails at QB.

Merry Christmas ;-p

Report: Browns fine Johnny Manziel for being late for treatment

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 27, 2014, 4:48 PM EST


Josh Gordon isn’t the only high-profile player in trouble with the Browns.

Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel has been fined by the team for being late for treatment on his injured hamstring, Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports.

That news was broken just hours after the Browns announced that Gordon is suspended for the regular-season finale for missing today’s walk-through practice. Manziel is on injured reserve and was not expected at the walk-through, but the report that he didn’t show up on time for treatment is concerning.

Manziel’s tardiness today comes just days after he vowed to take his work more seriously. Apparently taking work seriously doesn’t include showing up to work on time.

So now the Browns, at the end of a season that showed some promise, are ending the season on a low note: Their best offensive playmaker is such a troublemaker that his future with the team is in question, and their franchise quarterback doesn’t show up to work on time.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-for-treatment/

good thing he is going to try harder. LMAO didn't take long to prove himself a liar did it?

No idea if its true, but 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland reported a rumor that Manziel and Gordon were out together last night. Partying like a Brown, apparently.