DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Are things in Cleveland really THAT bad? (Per media/fan outcry).

LOL.......he was kidding around. I thought it was pretty funny.

I do think Haslam had his hands in passing on TB for Manziel and I still think it is a mistake, but yeah man, Farmer was just being facetious.

not so funny now is it?

Just a general reply.

I don't think things are that bad right now. We have a game manager on the roster that hit a slump (Hoyer) and youthful talent in a lot of positions. The team is much better off than we were this time last year. We have a lot of UDFA that performed rather well.

This is my thought on offense. Our RBs are good enough to produce, the OL is good just decimated at the Center position, our WRs stepped up in a surprising way (Hawkins and Gabriel had their moments), and we have a leader in Hoyer (while he did hit a slump in November/December). I also think that the Cameron sitution isn't dire as we have 2 guys in Barnage and Dray that can fill that void if not resigned. While Manziel did not act like he even looked at the playbook and Gordon suffered from his 10 game suspension, Gordon will bounce back and Manziel will have to continue to adjust to the NFL (though you know my opinion of Mr. Football). We have to remember that this is the first year that this offense was installed.

On defense, we have probably one of the best secondaries in the NFL. While this statement may be biased, the first time we played Cinci is where our secondary truly shined. There is also that hope that Gilbert will bounce back and be the guy all the scouts and the Browns thought he would be. Our defensive line is alright and can definitely use another pass rusher on the end and we really need that nasty MLB that can disrupt in the run game. Again, this system is in the first year as well and will improve with continuity. Honestly, it took me a while to come around because I fell in love with Horton's scheme; but, I saw a ball hawking secondary (something we have been lacking) and we created a lot of turnovers. I'm not sure what that stat line is but I'm sure it was the best since the return.

The only area that I feel truly needs an over-hall is the special teams. Coverage was really good, but we could not field punts or return very well all year. I'm not sure if the return game is on the players or the coach.

As far as coaching is concerned, Pettine, Shanahan, and O'Neil all made their fair share of mistakes. I have seen growth though and repeating mistakes were minimal. I was impressed that second half adjustments were noticeable. I think we have a good crew in place.

With the talent acquisition in UDFAs alone, Farmer gets an "A" grade as well. While the 1st round seemed to allude us again this year in terms of immediate impact; West did well when he played, Bitonio was an impact player from day 1, Kirksey shows promise, and Desir seems to be a guy that will grow like Skrine did over the past few years. I can honestly see these guys on our roster 3 years from now, making an impact on this team: Isaiah Crowell, Taylor Gabriel, K'Waun Williams.

In summary, we are much better in a lot of positions and are finally in a position to draft quality depth. I think much of the reason we fizzled out was due to our youth and injuries in key positions. Things are not that bad and we will push this division. It started this year and will continue to improve. Mark my words, if we get consistently competent play out of the QB position whether it be Hoyer or some other bridge QB; we will be in the playoffs next year. This team will get better, as will the coaching staff.

I really liked Gray, and thought that he brought a ton of ability, especially in the receiving game, to the FB position. I think that he could have been a major weapons, going on on one against LB.

However, the team disagreed, and in fairness, Gray did fumble a couple of times in the preseason.

Buffalo.... it was a bad idea to let him go.

The browns have suffered through an entire tam of fullbacks of late. It needs to stop.

I would have to say that we have no idea one way or the other where we are at. Because in all honesty, we have the same glaring question we've had since 1999.... The QB position.

I agree, a good QB or a coach like Bill Belichick and the Browns are likely a playoff team this year. Sadly, they had neither. Unfortunately, barring unforeseen circumstances next year's prospects don't look all that bright. Pettine will be back, but man if I am Haslam after this Sunday’s games I would put a quick call into San Francisco and say remember that offer we made last year, we will even sweeten it this year if you will come and coach in Cleveland. Probably a wasted effort, Harbaugh’s going to Michigan, but worth a shot. Got to believe a respected, big name coach would do wonders for this franchise.

As for QB, Hoyer is gone, JM is the starter next year unless some miracle occurs. Browns will draft a project in the later rounds but the good guys are out of their reach in the first round. So Hoyer’s replacement will need to come from either a trade or free agency. A trade requires the player to agree to it. Is any decent NFL QB going to agree to be traded to Cleveland, the graveyard of QBs? That means signing a free agent. From what I see those are mostly career backups. So what the Browns will have is a JM starting the season and running around until he ends up on IR after getting clocked and a backup playing the remainder of the games. God I pray the Browns have a better plan in mind than this.

Anyone have any ideas what the Browns can do to land a good QB? The only thing I’ve heard is they just haven’t had the patience to allow one to develop. If that were true why haven't any of their castoffs developed into anything other than backups with other teams? They will have started 23 different QBs after this weekend and not found one worth crap. How can that be? Other teams find their franchise guy, the Browns can't even find a good guy. What are they missing?

Do you really think firing a rookie head coach (again) is the best thing for this franchise? Also, we will not be bringing in anybody heads and shoulders above Hoyer, unless it's Sam Bradford. You also have to think that Manziel isn't necessarily a shoe in for the starter job next year either. I think if we stick with these coaches (fire the special teams coach) and just focus in talented depth, we will be fine and contending in the division. I'd argue that we far exceeded expectations this year and took a step forward in the right direction.

If we have a different Head Coach for any reason other than an unthinkable tragedy, then I may have to say goodbye to this team I love. This team is like a psycho girlfriend, where you just get used to one kind of crazy and she goes off in an entirely new direction of nuts.

If we start over again next year, I may have to change my name to YTownJustDon'tGiveaDarnAnymore.

I'll be right with ya if that happens. Unfortunately we'll both end up turning on the game anyway hoping it will be different.

I don't think Haslam does it though. After last year, I don't think he wants that again.

yeah, we're both addicts.

Hopefully Haslam is not stupid enough to g to his 3rd head coach in his 3rd season as owner.

But but but. What about the question of never having an experienced Owner, GM, HC, and entire FO staff?

With Haslam comming from part owner in pitt, i would think he would know better.

I remember last year when it happened i was shocked. I have to think that chud was fired because they thought they were getting harbaugh. I would also guess there was a cya mentality with banner and lombardi. They certainly weren't on the same page as chud.

Seeing the dysfunction, Haslam cleared it out. Haslam did fire those guys to promote farmer.

I think this coach and gm are on the same page, and i believe haslam will be able to see beyond the record to a young team that was wildly inconsistant due to inexperience and injury.

As "bad" as the record will be - 7/9 or 8/8 - at points in the season we seemed to 'click'- we could run, we had a passing game -shoot, we had back to back 300+ passing yard games. At 7-4 we were agonizing about 1 more Defensive stop or first down or make a field goal - we'd be 9-2. Even still, are we really that bad at 7/9 or 8/8, with as much change has happend within our organization?

How weird the NFL has become - just looking at the 49ers going to let Jim Harbaugh go after 13/3, 11/4/1, 12/4 season, and probably 7/9 this year. NFC South being so bad with Matt Ryan and Drew Brees playing all season? Romo is finally have success after many down years - but least Dallas has stuck with him - and has been fairly successful YoY.

Please keep the staff and the core of the team - DEVELOP our talent - hold players accountable - and win 2 more games next year...9-7 or 10-6 is very doable with 'core' components of this team if we make small calculated changes - not blow up the team..

Merry Christmas Dawg Fans!

If we never stick with anyone log enough to let them build an entire roster, install all of their plans and build a team, we'll never have the things you mentioned.

Speaking of terrible in Cleveland, did anyone else take this as a dig?



Or am I just getting defensive?

I see progress not enough but progress non the less.

I think Hoyer ran out of gas. People skip over the FACT that this was his 1st season as the full time starter and nothing can prepare you for the grind of an NFL season, not to mention Hoyer has been working 7 days a week since he began his rehab last fall.

He will be better prepared for the rigors of an NFL season unfortunately for him and for us he ran out of gas this year. He will know better next season how to pace himself and he most definitely needs to learn when he needs to rest as apposed to working non stop, he simply burned out.

The coaching staff badly mismanaged the QB situation its just that simple from training camp on it has been horrid. Had they done a better job in handling Hoyer he may not have burned out and JF may have actually looked like they had worked with him and preparing him for the field. Worst handling of the position I can remember.

For that reason alone I grade this staff out as very middle of the road. lets put it this way there is a ton of room for improvement.

I would add a pass rusher and improve the depth. The great thing in my mind anyway is we don't have to act desperately we can take best player available. Never thought I would say this but we have small holes in the damn. We aren't bleeding to death as has been true in the past.

We are one play away on offense and defense from being a really good team with a record to match. When you look back at a few of the games 1 more play on defense or offense and we win, that hasn't been true in years past.

We are getting there just not as fast as any of us would like......................

Exacly, and the biggest reason why we've never had a franchise QB.

we have ran 4 different systems in the last 5 years. Nuff Said.

+1

and our players represent a tapestry of mismatched parts, presented to us by the continual boot and reboot of coaches, schemes, and GM's.

4-3 players in a 3-4 or is it 3-4 in a 4-3? Small butt OLB that cant hold the edge in this scheme, DT playing DE, CB's some better in zone playing man to man, the lost goes on and that is just the D.

FO forced to band aid fixes while they and the coaches operate with one eye over their collective shoulders waiting for the owner to drop the hammer.

Nah we don't need to stay the course with anyone.

I'm guessing that was a typo but it couldn't be any more on target...