DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dansby: Gilbert "Has To Look in the Mirror"

Then you have guys like Crowell who were recruited to Georgia. Had some issues, and had to go to a lesser school and not have as big an impact..

He's still the same player, but maybe didn't get as good coaching.. and is seen as a guy against lesser talent and drops..

You find those guys, and they come in and play well right away..

Karlos Dansby says Johnny Manziel and Justin Gilbert both had 'wasted years' and better turn it around fast or they won't last

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/karlos_dansby_says_johnny_manz.html

This is the reason why we should just trade our first round picks and get either current, proven NFL players or more late-round picks, which seem to pan out better for us.

I really didn't think Gilbert would come in and pretty much lay an egg. JF I had minimal hopes for in the beginning. These two young kids better listen to these older veterans otherwise it'll go from wasted year to just a wasted high round pick.

I agree w/you that you can't discount late-round picks and FA guys.

However, you can't devalue the importance of hitting on your top picks. While guys like Crowell and Williams are nice players, they aren't in the same category as guys like Beckham Jr and Teddy Bridgewater. Both of those guys could have been ours and we ended up w/two guys that had horrible rookie years.

I know many of you get very upset if someone questions anythingFarmer does, but the fact is that he had a horrible first round.

No doubt he did.

But we have horrible first rounders since....ever I guess.

The show a flash of brilliance one season and completely disappear the next(Braylon comes to mind)

I dunno what that is man. Gilbert was suppose to be the best DB in the draft.

Manziel was suppose to be the best QB of the draft.

I personally wanted Sammy Watkins and teddy bridgewater.

While not being as dominate as beckam, nobody can deny Watkins impact on the bills. He came as advertised.

Teddy has too. Dude has flat out gotten better and better every single game. Going io OTAs and training camp next season as the starter, man he might explode!

But now we gotta hope our two first rounders get it.

We got whitner telling Gilbert he needs to stop being a kid, we got dansby saying Manziel and Gilbert had wasted years.

Honestly though, I got more faith in Gilbert than I do Manziel.

Gilbert shown some flashes, and that pick six against LUCK of all people was a thing of beauty. And it wasn't garbage time per say like manziels TD kinda was.

I dunno man. Sometimes I wish they let the fans pick the 1 round, and then let the GM pick the rest, we would be golden haha

i'm not discounting first round picks at all. And I understand that the talent level is very high when you do hit on a first rounder.

Say what you want about farmer...don't bother me a bit. I guess i'm being optimistic. We did get a bunch of solid players, and the two positions that arguably take longer to master (qb and cb) in the first, while they look like they have bad attitudes and are not looking good, we still don't really know, and i'm not sure if its fair to write them off at this point.

Imagine if manziel and gilbert get their crap together...then its looking like we did awesome.

Especially since Farmer traded/punted away any late round pick where he could have secured one of those "steals", if he believed them to be so good. He did trade up for Manziel and West....and even gave Baltimore his 7th for a future 6th instead of picking one of Crowell or Williams. ACTIONS >>> WORDS

Bonefish is right on this.

As for Gilbert, as tru dawgs said, he was a pure athletic cover corner in a zone scheme and had bad body language and technique when tackling. Just can't pick guys that high who aren't physical in College. It was a stupid size/speed pick hoping to "coach him up" on the physical aspect of the game. That alomst never works.

The worst part for me was and still remains Pettine even admitting having drafted a weak tackler by saying that tackling isn't high on his priority list for CBs. That's an even deeper problem than the pick itself.

Anyway:

TRich
Weeden
Mingo
Gilbert
Manziel

5 first rounders the last 3 drafts, 3 Top 10 picks. Unreal.

Farmer's first draft looks really bad so far. If he has another one like this with two 1st next draft, we're looking at another full blown rebuild 2-3 years from now once Dansby, Whitner, Haden, D.Bryant, JThomas, Mack start declining

I hope you received some glasses for Christmas.

Kirksey, West has had some flashes, Joel Bitoni and etc... yeah I also wouldn't go as far to say Farmer's draft has looked really bad. He's scored on some undrafted ones too such as Crow and K. Williams.

Considering he had 3 Top 50 picks and 5 picks in the top 3 rounds of a very strong and deep draft? Yeah, it's bad....2009 bad. He hit a HR with Bitonio, all others were role players and weren't good enough to start. That's reality

The only fault of Farmer that I see in this draft was drafting Manziel and not going after a top tier WR. WR was a need going into last year's draft, even with Gordon playing and its a need going into this year. That is a failure of Farmer's. Other than that, I like the Bitonio, West, and Kirksey picks plus the UDFAs of Crowell, Williams, and Gabriel. I understand the Gilbert pick as he was touted by the scouts as the best CB in the draft. Farmer can't be faulted faulted with that pick when I'm sure he wasn't the only GM that thought highly of him. That's a win in my book. He did well last year and I have faith with his scouts and evaluators in place that he will do just as good next year.

Just give him a chance.

Maybe after what happened both Haslam and Farmer have learned from this and will approach things differently.

Weak? Incompetent? Harsh criticism for a first time GM who is taking a multitude of opinions into consideration including his billionaire boss who pays his bills.

Let's say Gilbert and Manziel end as complete and utter busts. Let's give Farmer a chance to learn and grow from it.

I've got a newsflash for you ...very few people are perfect coming out of the gate and very few people ever achieve perfection at all.

Then again you knew that aleady. It just cant apply to the GM of your favorite team.

@Swish - "I dunno man. Sometimes I wish they let the fans pick the 1 round, and then let the GM pick the rest, we would be golden haha"

Wow, can you imagine the size of that draft room

If you gave each member of this website a vote and had the team select the player with the most votes in Round 1 ... we'd have a better track record

I think we would be worse, if we did that. Some ppl on here just repeat ESPN and Kiper. Some on here are very knowledgeable but are way out numbered.

As far as Farmer.... I think he had a very solid draft, especially if you factor in UDFAs. Nobody hits on 100% all the time.

A lot on here are over critical on Skrine, I'm not sure there was a DB in the draft last year that could beat him out. We have 3 young DB projects that have all struggled but all have flashed and so promise.

Manziel-PR move, didnt want him, thought he was overrated and not NFL ready.

Farmer also got 3 solid players in the 3rd round, and lets not forget a perennial starter in Bitonio.

All in all, we had a solid draft that produced 2 starters, 3rd/4th WR, depth at DB. All areas improved. Next year we solidify other areas and we will be on the right path.

I really like what Farmer has done. He took some risks but improved the depth and talent on this team.

Can you imagine the outrage if Manziel would have made some of these comments?

Do you really have to keep up with this Gilbert/Manziel juxtaposition?

I know you think you're pointing out 'hypocrisy', but they are two entirely different animals.

If Gilbert had spent the last year doing a myriad of stupid 'look at me' things, then it might be a more valid comparison.

Manziel is reaping what he sowed. Gilbert won't get half the media/fan attention Manziel does, because he didn't ask for it so badly. Not to mention we're talking about a QB and a CB...who do you think is going to get more attention or scrutiny there?

And just what, exactly, is your point in all this? Manziel isn't getting fair treatment? Or Gilbert isn't getting ragged on enough?

As for the article, I found it funny that he said he wasn't mad about the comments from his teammates, and then went on to complain about them.

I don't have to, but I am going to.

Fair enough, but again, what is the point you're trying to make? Manziel is being treated unfairly, or Gilbert isn't getting ragged on enough?

If it's the former...he's getting what he deserves. When you tell the world to look at you, they will.

If it's the latter...I think he's getting an earful.

rofl

My point is that Gilbert has been a bigger disappointment than Manziel. He has also warranted more criticism from his teammates than JM. He was also given a far better opportunity to start. His comments are worse than JM's, despite the fact that the latter is interviewed way, way more than Gilbert. Saying he would rather sleep than study....seriously?

Therefore, I can infer that the fact that JM receives hundreds of times more criticism on this board than Gilbert does is based more on poster's personal disdain of of Manziel than fairness.

With that said, you and others have the right to continue the onslaught, just as I have the right to offer my opinion on the situation.

You can infer all you want, but the difference in reaction isn't based on 'disdain' for Manziel.

It's based primarily on one pleading for the world's attention, where the other didn't. It's also based on one being a QB and one being a CB. And then there's the little things...like one guy looking like a complete dumbass in public every other week, and the other being relatively anonymous.

I am so tired of this 'personal disdain' nonsense. You threw that at me pre-draft when I said that Manziel had horrible footwork and lacked an arm when conditions weren't perfect. Every and any legitimate Manziel concern is dismissed as 'hate' or 'you just don't like him'.

Forget Gilbert for one second...what, exactly, does Manziel not deserve?

Where should he get the benefit of the doubt?

If you want to get into a discussion about hypocrisy...who made a thread calling a Browns player a punk, and then turns around and says 'The guy who was photographed about to snort drugs in a Vegas bathroom? The one who was completely and utterly unprepared to play when called upon? You guys are just being hard on him because you don't like him.'

If you come out and say you're going to 'wreck this league', then act like an unprepared moron for a year, and then come out and look like an unprepared moron...people are going hard on you because they don't like you?

I'm more upset with the organization for taking such an obviously stupid gamble, but where exactly is Manziel being treated unfairly? The whole world told the kid for a year 'I hope you're prepared, it doesn't look like it'.

Turns out he wasn't, and admitted as much. He might get more slack if he wasn't the dumbass letting himself get photographed looking like an idiot every other week, slit-eyed flashing a wad of money, no?

You can make this as personal as you want, PDR. I don't give a rat's butt what you think about me, so knock yourself out.

Manziel has not been clamoring for attention this year. In fact, he has made many comments that are polar opposite of your claim.

Gilbert didn't get the media attention that Manziel got and according to the guys who actually play for the Browns.......Gilbert has caught more flak than JM.

And no, I am not going to forget Gilbert. He was picked 14 spots higher than JM, has received more opportunities, said dumber things, has less respect [from what has been reported] from his teammates, and has stunk the joint out just as much as JM has.

Ummmm........ He kinda did. The only difference was that he was not called out publicly by Dansby and Whitner.

"I gotta play like a professional."

"I wasn't prepared."

Again, this thread is about Gilbert and not Manziel.

But, if we really want to get down to it. What happened to Lebron's leg last night that he had to leave the court.

Will the Buckeyes win the National championship or is Cardale Jones not putting in the work?


Ooops, I forgot this thread was about Gilbert. He needs to get his crap together as does the midget.

Quit clogging the thread with your perception of how people should respond to these stories......

Geez!!

Where did I make this personal?



You've got to be kidding me...

Why, exactly, does one drunkenly mug for the camera with a giant stack of money? Is it because they want to be left alone?



Comments? Are you serious?

George Bush made comments saying he wouldn't raise taxes.

Does that mean he didn't raise taxes?

Actions speak louder than words. Always have, always will.

He made comments saying the opposite...that made me laugh.



I think the Browns players who spoke up when it comes to Gilbert believes he has the talent to succeed in the NFL, if he applies himself and takes it seriously.

I doubt they think that way about Manziel.

Really?????
He started a couple of games, had a pick six, a fumble recovery, a few pass defended and some tackles on special teams and as a CB.

JM scored a garbage TD against Buffalo, crapped his pants against Cincy and got hurt against Carolina. He contributed 1 TD (garbage time) and 2 INTs.

So, who deserves more criticism?
Gilbert (pick 6) = JM (garbage TD)

They both need to grow up and start taking the game seriously or there will be a lot of people who wish they just bought a Joe Thomas, Bernie Kosar or Jim Brown jersey.

Yes, really.

I really don't see how you can say that he is more of a disappointment. JM was supposed to "wreck this league."

His and Gilbert's offensive output is exactly the same at 6 points.

Our #22 pick should have had just as much of an impact as our #8. Both are first rounders, no?

Bottom line, you have it in your head that Gilbert sucks more than JM and have made it your own personal crusade to convince everyone as such. You kinda do that a lot on here.

jc

The reason Manziel gets more scrutiny and criticism is because he is a Qb. Qb is away mare important position and therefore gets way more attention. It's that simple.

Cleveland Browns' Justin Gilbert: 'I messed up, but I promise my teammates I'm going to make it right' | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...#incart_m-rpt-1

BEREA, Ohio -- Browns cornerback Justin Gilbert, the No. 8 overall pick, admitted Friday that he's made mistakes this season and vowed he's still going to be a great.

It took him halfway through his seven-minute interview to lose the defiant attitude and admit he's been wrong, but once he did, he said all the things you'd expect to hear from a first-round rookie who didn't work hard enough to excel.

"I messed up, but I can promise my teammates I'm going to make it right,'' said Gilbert. "I think it's just a little minor setback for a major comeback. That's a little phrase I'd like to use for it.''

Gilbert, the top cornerback selected in the draft out of Oklahoma State, has been a colossal disappointment this season because he couldn't get it together off the field. He displayed one of the worst attitudes some in the organization have ever seen, and was frequently late to team meetings.

Not only did teammates such as Donte Whitner and Karlos Dansby describe 2014 as a "wasted year'' for Gilbert, coach Mike Pettine fully supported the veterans calling him out publicly.

"And he had every right to,'' Gilbert said. "I'm not mad at anyone about it, I brought it upon myself and I can take that and roll with it.''

Gilbert promised that the issues that kept him from living up to his top 10 status in 2014 have been resolved.

"I can assure everyone here that I will work a lot harder in the offseason and during the season,'' he said. "That's one promise I can make. It will be corrected. it has been corrected. It's not really a problem. It's not going to be an issue anymore.''

He declined to admit he's been late for meetings or reveal what else he did wrong.

"We keep the family business in the family,'' he said.

Well not everyone. Gilbert was visibly miffed at the top of the interview that Whitner and Dansby called him out to the media. Whitner told him to "stop being a kid'' and Dansby agreed with Whitner that it was a "wasted year'' for Gilbert and that he better get it together soon or he'll be out of the league.

"I'm not a person to judge my teammates and put it out there in the media like that,'' he said. "If I have a problem with somebody, I would address them face to face and that's just all I can say about that.''

Gilbert said he's not really sure if tough love was the way to describe it.

"I think it may have crossed the line a little bit, but at the same time we're all here to do the same thing and that's win and provide for our families,'' he said. "So some of the things were right and some of the things could've been kept to themselves.''

He said he doesn't know if the veterans have more of a problem with his off-the-field issues or his play.

"They would have to talk to me face to face for me to find out that answer,'' he said.

He said "I expected it from one person (Whitner) not the other guy (Dansby), so I mean, I don't know. I don't know what to say right now.''

Why Whitner?

"Because (Whitner's) the guy that's always just talking,'' said Gilbert. "I just sit back and listen to people. I'm not going to really put out there what he was saying.''

Dansby stressed that he's an open book and that Gilbert would need to come to him for the kind of wisdom that only an 11-year veteran can provide. Will he take the veteran up on it?

"It's something I might look into, yeah,'' said Gilbert. "I think I can handle that and talk to him about some things and we can see where things end up going from there.''

He disagrees with the two leaders that his rookie year was a waste.

"Not at all,'' he said. "I learned a lot this season, so I don't see how it could be a waste at all.''

Was Whitner's command to grow up fair?

"I have no comment about that,'' he said.

Asked if he struggled with maturity issues, he said, "Not at all'' and doesn't know when it hit him that he needs to work harder.

He said several players have pulled him aside and tried to help him.

"I'd say Buster Skrine and Joe Haden,'' he said. "Those are about the only two.''Does he finally know what it takes to be a pro?

"That's a question I really can't answer right now,'' he said.

Gilbert said the challenging year hasn't dampened his enthusiasm for being a Brown.

"Not at all,'' he said. "It definitely sparked a flame inside of myself to want to prove a lot of people wrong and a lot of doubters. That's going to be one of my main goals next year.''

Does he want to be great?

"I will be great,'' he said.

Are his transgressions as bad as they're being made out to be?

"To some people it might be bad, to some people it may be not as bad,'' he said. "It depends on what type of person you are and how you view things.''

He said he has no idea where the rampant criticism is coming from.

"Maybe because I'm not a person that really just talks a lot and people don't really understand Justin Gilbert or I don't really let people get too close to me,'' he said. "Maybe people just aren't used to that.''

Do his teammates need to change their attitude about him?

"I don't know,'' he said. "We'll have to see. We'll see how things end up.''

He wouldn't say if it was one major incident that caused his teammates to speak out or a series of things. Last week, he was benched in favor of Pierre Desir, and Robert Nelson even took snaps ahead of him early on. Overall, he played only 22% of the snaps at Carolina.

"We can't really keep talking about it,'' he said. "If you want to know the details about that, you have to ask coach pettine.

He said he agreed with Johnny Manziel that the transition to the pros was more than he expected. He also said he learned that it's a business.

"You have to come to work each and every day to work hard and prepare like a professional athlete,'' he said.

Gilbert, who played only 373 snaps -- more than 700 fewer than cornerback Buster Skrine's 1,085 -- acknowledged that he was disappointed in how he started the season "but I think I came along as the season went on and I think I made some pretty good plays down the stretch that weren't really noticed or talked about like the plays that I didn't make that were talked about at the beginning of the season. It's just how things went I guess. I've just got to come back next season and turn it all around.''

Like Pettine, Browns defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil appreciated the veterans stepping up to challenge the rookie.

"They see the talent Justin has,'' said O'Neil. "Guys with great skillsets like Justin has, if he learns how to be a pro and he goes about it and attacks his job every day, which I'm sure he did to get to this point, could be a 10-, 12-, 15-year pro in this league; guys that don't end up two or three years and out of the league.

"They're trying to mold him into the player they know he can be. The coaches are trying to do that, as well. That's on Justin, whether he wants to be that 10-to-15-year guy or the two- to three-year guy. He's worked hard. There are just some other things that need to come along with it."

Despite being a prolific kick returner in college -- including a school-record six TDs -- special teams coach Chris Tabor didn't see fit to put him back there at this level.

"To be quite honest with you, I don't think that he's ready yet for that,'' said Tabor. "I think that's an area that he's working at in practice to improve that, to become a reliable at that position. Not saying that he can't do it, but at this time, he's just not ready to do it yet."

Pettine has said he sees much better things ahead for Gilbert in 2015.

"I support that 100%,'' said Gilbert.

Really would prefer all this talk from the players would stay in-house. Let Pettine be the media voice.

something's rotten in Denmark right now

I don't like all of this stuff in the media ... and it really seems like Gilbert has done some pretty bad things, at least that's the perception

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for us to believe he'll ever pan out

Very strange to say the least. The nosy gossip in me wants to know what it is, but the Browns fan in me just hopes it's not something that's going to get him suspended. And the human being in me hopes it's not something that's going to hurt this kid.

Could be something as simple as not being able to handle the money and the access to certain things. Maybe he got a girl pregnant and couldn't handle that. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened to a guy. Maybe he had a long-time girlfriend who broke up with him and he couldn't handle that.

Maybe he went all Trent Richardson and was having orgies all the time. Maybe he got busted with some drugs but since he's a first time offender, we won't hear about it.

Whatever it is, I just hope he gets his head on straight and kicks some butt for us.

You could be right about any one of those.

Trent Richardson having orgies...??? The nosy part of me wants to ask, but I think I'll let you hold on to that one haha!

I'm not sure I can get on board with some on here's assessment that Gilbert was worse than Manziel. I just don't know what they've been seeing. Virtually everyone through out the season commented on the progress Gilbert made form game to game. Albeit not a lot all the time, but it was all going forward. When he has been in, I haven't seen the rest of the team pack it in.

Manziel on the other hand seemed to singlehandedly uninspire everyone around him. At the least our defense didn't appear to buy in to the JFF hype that the fans and media did. It took until the end of the season for him to admit he didn't take it seriously enough. I bet you could ask most of the team by Week 8 and they could have told you that about him.

But when it comes to Gilbert and Manziel (and even West) who appear to have the same issue, Pettine not for one instant took ownership of seeing that they mature like they needed to. It wasn't his job to, or at least he didn't see it as such and I'm perfectly fine with that approach. He said from the get go that he wasn't going to micro-manage them off the field and that his expectation was that they would handle themselves appropriately.

Well guess what boys, you were out on your own amongst the adults for the first time. Pettine wasn't going to be your daddy, and you didn't think what the veterans had to say was relevant to you. Unfortunately it took your rookie seasons before you wised up.

Both sucked, end of story.

The agenda to distract from Manziel's stink is laughable at best and every idiot can see through it.

Manziel said he'd "wreck the league". The only thing he wrecked was his value. In only 6 Qtrs of play, he has gone from a 1st+3rd rounder to what? Not sure anyone would even pony up the 3rd we traded up for him now. That's how hopeless he looked

The whole 1st round was a mess. Considering what was available, Farmer absolutely botched it. He got a 1st back, that's the only postive I see right now, he better make up with that, but I'm not confident he can

Right with you on this part.