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After watching this game i'm convinced Manziel is a fool.
I want more than anything for this team to let someone grow as a qb for a few years. Manziel flat out don't deserve it. I would rather see Shaw get a few years over Manziel at this point. At least he was prepared.
I don't see us getting a stud qb in the draft, so that means a developmental guy.
Fact of the matter is we are going to need a free agent qb if we are going to let someone sit and learn like they should.
Hoyer is probably the best free agent out there. We know he works hard. Maybe he's not the most talented, but i would think he would improve in year 2 along with the rest of the offense.
We need him back in a bad way, with Manziel firmly at third string at best, and gone if someone wants to give us something. This stupid party was it for me.
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I'm not sure what I'd do ... all I know is I would never allow Manziel to wear a Browns uniform again
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Resign Hoyer. He is the best of the FAs.
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We need him back in a bad way... Quite possibly Hoyer is nearing his (performance) ceiling. If so, and based on his play this season, there is no way we pay starter's money for Hoyer. I like the guy and I'm perfectly OK with paying him backup money...
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I don't have a problem with paying him more. We don't have cap issues, and it's not like a flood of top tier FA's are going to come here.
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he showed class by being next to Shaw and helping him out..
Again I remember how the receivers had to stop and come back to his throw, okay He's a decent back up.. I'm ready to move on and find our future QB... Hate saying that again and again... Hoyer isn't it... I want a Cardale Jones type QB ... 6'5 250 but that's just me.
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Lets try a different QB. I mean...we've already tried two this year and 21 previously. what else can we do?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Well, if you can keep Hoyer as #2, Shaw as #3 and you can get another..if not then Hoyer as #1 and Shaw as #2..if we can mange a few games better and stay healthy (and make a few FG's) then we are right back at 9-7 and a chance at playoffs...We don't need a Top Tier QB - just make some throws and manage the game and no turnovers..this assuming Crowell and West run well.
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i'm not so sure what they do with Manziel, but he certainly doesn't deserve to be the starter. He also certainly didn't seem to use this year to learn all that much. I wish the kid would grow up, but i'm not getting my hopes up.
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Hoyer isnt the answer at QB. He was a decent backup option when the season started and he did absolutely nothing to show that he is more than that. He is Connor Shaw with experience. If you want to resign him, do it as the backup but let him know you are bringing someone in to take the spot.
Johnny having a party on the friday before the game says he likely will never get it. I carry him on the roster for now but anything else at all and you cut the cord.
I go hard after Ryan Mallett.
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I made this post elsewhere but once this thread opened, it seemed more appropriate: I'm not sure where this thought/post should go, but because the thread lists all three current QBs, this is a good a place as any.
I can't believe I am saying this, and it isn't a endorsement of Hoyer, but I think it would be a safe move by approaching Hoyer about a contract extension here in Cleveland.
(1) We aren't going to be in a position to make a move for a QB in the draft. Tampa will go after Mariota, IMO, and Winston isn't worth touching.
(2) Hoyer played himself into a lesser contract than what he probably imagined half way through the season. Desperation by the Browns may add a little more to the deal, but not as much as he would have received after the Bengals game #1.
(3) You simply cannot go into next year assuming Manziel is your starting QB. You just can't.
(4) Yes you'll get average QB play in Hoyer but you'll gain another year of a QB in the Shanahan system (pending an assumed return) and we know he prepares like a pro's pro.
(5) Hopefully with a Mack return, the running game will allow for better PA plays from Hoyer, which he thrived in when the running game was producing.
I just can't subscribe going into the offseason with Manziel, Shaw, and no real shot at a early first round QB. Even if we were able to get a FA Vet, how big of a difference would it be to having Hoyer another year in the same system?
So.....um, yeah.....Hoyer. Rah, rah. JMO
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Hoyer had what 13 games?
Manziel 7 quarters?
Shaw 4 quarters?
None of them have reached their "performance ceiling" in this offense. I'll guarantee you that the entire offense hasn't ran all the plays in the playbook once, let alone enough times to have it down consistently.
Hoyer was good enough to start. He wasn't good enough to over-come all the inconsistency and injuries this year. Doubt many qb's could have. certainly not any with 13 games in any system.
How about we do what we never do? Stick with someone? That is if he even wants to be back here.
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Hoyer isnt the answer at QB. He was a decent backup option when the season started and he did absolutely nothing to show that he is more than that. He is Connor Shaw with experience. If you want to resign him, do it as the backup but let him know you are bringing someone in to take the spot.
Johnny having a party on the friday before the game says he likely will never get it. I carry him on the roster for now but anything else at all and you cut the cord.
I go hard after Ryan Mallett. What's with all the "get a different qb" stuff? Especially all the "get a proven vet", or "sign Cutler, or Mallet" crap? Keep Hoyer. He has his limitations............but obviously so do all the other free agent qb's, or else they wouldn't be free agents. What would be wrong with (for the right contract, of course) re-signing Hoyer? Odds are, the worst you could get out of him would be a heck of a lot better than the names being bandied about. Hey......if Cundiff makes a field goal in 2 different games, we win 2 more than we did. If the d can get 1 additional stop in 2 games (steelers and colts) we win 2 more games. That's 4 more wins. Instead of 7-9, we'd be 11-5. Imagine that? And we were, literally, 2 kicks, and 2 d stops away from being that. But yeah, let's go after cutler (a proven loser and t.o. machine) or mallet, a guy that has done...............what? Oh, nothing.
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Hoyer was twice the player that he ended up looking like before Gordon came back. That guy ran wrong routes and never fought for anything. Hoyer made mistakes for sure. But A LOT of stuff we blame him for were squarely Gordon's fault.
This team was miles ahead of where we ended up and that all changed when Mack went down and Gordon came back.
Hoyer is the best option. There are no FA QBs out there better than Hoyer and this draft is a joke at QB.
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Hoyer was twice the player that he ended up looking like before Gordon came back. Hoyer did seem to focus on Josh and force a lot of throws into tight coverage...I think I mentioned before that Hoyer should smack Gordon for helping him lose starting QB money next year...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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No Thank You 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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After watching this game i'm convinced Manziel is a fool. What about the game convinced you? Manziel did not play. Now if you are talking about the off field stuff. Yeah Manziel showed that he lacks the maturity. Maybe he will grow up, but I would not bet the farm on it. Hoyer is not the answer either. We saw too much inconsistent play for me to be convinced that he would be any better. I think that the FA market will be interesting this year, but there will be a lot of competition. Let's take a look at teams that may need a change in QB. Tampa Tennessee Washington NY Jets Chicago (although the Cutler Contract is an issue) St Louis Cleveland Houston Buffalo The Browns will pick somewhere between 11-13. With the Buffalo pick they are somewhere between 16-19. Mariota and Winston will be gone with the first 2 picks. Wahsington, Jets and St Louis will probably be after FA's Buffalo does not have a first round pick, so they will be after a trade/FA. Who are the options? Bradford, Sanchez (or perhaps Foles), Mallet, RG3, Hoyer? Sanchez may have the highest market value going in. Anyone for RG3 for Manziel? lol.
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Hoyer isnt the answer at QB. He was a decent backup option when the season started and he did absolutely nothing to show that he is more than that. He is Connor Shaw with experience. If you want to resign him, do it as the backup but let him know you are bringing someone in to take the spot. lol yeah that will get him back here. Hoyer played good enough until Gordon got back. With a running game Hoyer is fine. Had quite a few 4th quarter drives. What he didn't have is timing with his receivers. If Mallet is all that, then he never gets away from the texans. His body of work is no better than Hoyers at this point. Why is shiny and new always the answer around here?
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Hey......if Cundiff makes a field goal in 2 different games, we win 2 more than we did. If the d can get 1 additional stop in 2 games (steelers and colts) we win 2 more games. That's 4 more wins. Instead of 7-9, we'd be 11-5.
Imagine that? And we were, literally, 2 kicks, and 2 d stops away from being that.
I sure can't wait for the day when the QB does enough to where we don't have to rely on the kicker to win..And honestly the RB's performing enough to score and help the QB... Yes Arch we did lose by those few points that the Kicker missed... Thats why scoring TD's mean more
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When we were in position to take the step forward, he crumbled just like DA did. guys like that arent starting QBs. He was throwing the ball to the other team all year but early on they were dropping the ball and in those last starts, they caught his errand throws and he went from 8tds and 1 pick to finishing with 12 tds and 13picks. Sorry guys, he isnt a starting QB. He doesnt have an NFL skill set.
I have no problem resigning him to be what he is and thats a backup but he is barely a decent #2 QB.
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Yup. Scoring a t.d. is ALWAYS better than a field goal. But perhaps you forget the 2 games we would've won had we made a field goal?
Or the 2 games we would've won had we made a defensive stop? Or, on offense, gotten another first down?
Look, the Browns were 4 plays away from having 4 more wins.
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Why is shiny and new always the answer around here?
Because all we ever have is dull and old.
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1) We aren't getting Mariota in the draft
2) There are no other QB worth taking in this draft
3) We can NOT go into next year with our QB depth chart featuring Jamboogie, Shaw and blank.
The only option is to re-sign Hoyer.
I'd be on board with Shaw at #3, re-signing Hoyer and then adding another vet to compete with Hoyer for the starting spot.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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After watching this game i'm convinced Manziel is a fool
Pretty impressive that you can figure that out based on a game in which he did not play.
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your right Arch.. I didn't forget those dang missed FG's ugh we were really so close.. I'm having a anal cranial inversion  the kicking game really did suck...
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After watching this game i'm convinced Manziel is a fool
Pretty impressive that you can figure that out based on a game in which he did not play. You mean the game where he wasn't even allowed out of the locker room and onto the field because he was too busy having a bender with the Beebs two days ago to bother showing up to his job on time? Yeah...
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I go hard after Ryan Mallett.
Mallett has started just 2 games in his four years in the NFL and was injured in the second start, out for the season.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Mallett has better physical tools than Hoyer. A better arm for sure. I'm not positive he has the brain, the poise, the maturity or the leadership of Hoyer though. Plus, Hoyer would be in year 2 of our offense vs. Mallett in year 1.
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What about the game convinced you? Manziel did not play.
Maybe that an un-drafted rookie free agent looked way better than him? Manziel has a better arm, but thats it. Manziel was totally unprepared to start. Add in the off field stuff, and like i said....fool. Hoyer is not the answer either. We saw too much inconsistent play for me to be convinced that he would be any better.
I don't see how you can say that. Quarterbacks with 13 starts (Hoyer) are inconsistent. Rookie receivers and running-backs are inconsistent. Second and Third string centers are inconsistent. Suspended pro-bowl receivers are inconsistent as well. First year offenses are inconsistent...thats the bottom line, and not all on Hoyer. You know how you get more consistent? Not by doing what we do. We still need to develop someone, might as well leave it alone until they are ready. It is possible that Hoyer actually develops.
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1) We aren't getting Mariota in the draft
2) There are no other QB worth taking in this draft
3) We can NOT go into next year with our QB depth chart featuring Jamboogie, Shaw and blank.
The only option is to re-sign Hoyer.
I'd be on board with Shaw at #3, re-signing Hoyer and then adding another vet to compete with Hoyer for the starting spot. I don't think Hoyer needs to compete with anyone. If they think Hoyer is that bad, and can sign someone who they think is better, then just roll with the new guy. We need someone to develop, and that means a qb somewhere in the draft that we think is worthy. Theoretically Shaw could go back to the practice squad if he clears waivers. Manziel should be third string, traded, or cut. Personally i think they give him till training camp, but idk. Whatever vet comes here, it needs to be their team. Hoyer is the logical choice, because the team was behind him this year through all this crap, so obviously they don't think he was the whole problem. How about we stop the circus. I would be willing to bet that this TEAM thinks there was plenty of blame to go around, and that it was no one guy. Reward hard work, show the morons the door.
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I agree you almost have to resign Hoyer given what currently looks to be available when Free Agency starts. Offer him low to middle starters money with possibility to earn middle to top money through incentives provided he reaches certain player and team goals.
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Mallett has better physical tools than Hoyer. A better arm for sure. I'm not positive he has the brain, the poise, the maturity or the leadership of Hoyer though. Plus, Hoyer would be in year 2 of our offense vs. Mallett in year 1.
Hoyer isn't to be confused with Luck. He does like you state bring a bunch of positives to the table, and yes, I think year 2 would be huge. Manziel's arm is better than Hoyer's too. Alot of good that did him. I know nothing about Mallett, other than he gets rattled under pressure just like any other qb. One day we might even have a qb that starts year 3 with two full years in the same system. Pretty sure Kosar was the last. Whatever we do, that qb deserves some time.
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Whoever it is, this qb carousel in to the regular season needs to stop! Competition is healthy, yes. .....in pre season. Once the reigns are handed over, the competition is over. This constant competition, looking over the shoulder, during the regular season needs to stop!
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he showed class by being next to Shaw and helping him out..
Again I remember how the receivers had to stop and come back to his throw, okay He's a decent back up.. I'm ready to move on and find our future QB... Hate saying that again and again... Hoyer isn't it... I want a Cardale Jones type QB ... 6'5 250 but that's just me. No, it isn't just you, I'd love to have a Cardale Jones type guy here. Most likely a Browns fan being he's from Cleveland too!
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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I think we really have seen Hoyer's ceiling and he's a great QB in a system/environment where the run game and etc is working. He can play then. Otherwise... not so much. I don't know if we'd resign Hoyer given we've technically benched him twice, for any type of high money like it seemed Brian and his agent was banking on. Plus when the run game is going, we really need a QB who can truly cash in on all the long deep plays that are there when the play action is a threat, Hoyer doesn't have a long ball arm.
If the price is right, then sure I guess. Someone already said and I would agree, he's likely the best qb in the FA market.
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I think we really have seen Hoyer's ceiling and he's a great QB in a system/environment where the run game and etc is working. He can play then. Otherwise... not so much. I don't know if we'd resign Hoyer given we've technically benched him twice, for any type of high money like it seemed Brian and his agent was banking on. Plus when the run game is going, we really need a QB who can truly cash in on all the long deep plays that are there when the play action is a threat, Hoyer doesn't have a long ball arm.
If the price is right, then sure I guess. Someone already said and I would agree, he's likely the best qb in the FA market. I don't know how you can say we have seen his ceiling. All things being equal then he still needs some time in the system. Whats a ceiling anyway? How do you even figure that? Hoyer really started to look bad when Gordon came back. A few weeks later we hear Gordon and Cameron say they are responsible for 4 of Hoyer's picks. How many punts were they responsible for? How many first downs did mistakes cost? This is a team game, and i'm sure Hoyer made plenty of mistakes too, but ceiling? After less than a season of starts? Naw. Hoyer certainly doesn't have a super arm, but he also didn't have the luxury of a vet receiver that can get open deep either. Plus once you have that receiver, it still takes time to get your timing down, to know exactly what the other is thinking. Hoyer didn't have that. One day we'll stick with a qb for awhile, then we will finally see some consistency. Heck if i know what Farmer and Pettine think of Hoyer, maybe he cost us every loss for all i know. Isn't that hard to look around the league and see qb's that get pressured who suddenly look like crap.
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Bring back Derek Anderson!
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I don't see this happening. He is a good back up and probably good guy to have in the locker room, but they need a starter.
We are terrible
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That was really my way to say Hoyer is a not a long term solution and not someone who can get you into the playoffs, let alone deep in the playoffs and beyond.
JMO
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Bring back Derek Anderson! If we are going to bring back a qb with holes in his game, then why not just bring back the guy that would be in year 2 of our system?
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