DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Pity the Police---and the Rights of Responsible Americans!

This post will probably draw outrage and some will call me a racist, but I really don't care because I think this is a very important--and frightening--issue in American society.

I will try to keep this short. We all know the background details. Don't get on me for not examining each issue. We all know about each event and their troubling details.

The American media and a good deal of the American public has rallied against the police for several unfortunate events that have occurred in the past year. I am not here to argue about the merits of each case.

Instead, I am here to address a very real danger that puts the lives of our police officers at risk and the quality of life for most law abiding Americans in jeopardy.

I can see that the lack of respect for the police is already beginning. Shooting cops. Six people jumping cops who try to arrest a suspect. Questioning every detail of each act of violence.

Good cops are going to be killed.

Many crimes will go unpunished because cops will be afraid to use force or will be afraid they will be killed when responding to crime scenes.

The unruly will grow in power and the safety of law abiding Americans will be compromised even further than it already has.

And one aside before I go............who commits the most crimes and who is responsible for the most fatalities against African Americans? The police? White America? Successful African Americans in the suburbs? Hard working middle class African Americans? Or, unemployed African Americans that wasted their opportunity to be educated and have instead joined gangs, do drugs, have their hand out, and have no respect for authority?

You can call me a racist, but this is not what this is about. It's about what is right and wrong.

Tis only the beginning of the collapse of American Society.

But hey, we earned it.

You're asking the wrong questions.

The right question to ask is why is there such outrage against police officers. Many personal anecdotes from members on our board tell us why.

You teach/taught students who grew up feeling these sentiments, right? The killing is the result of the lack of tangible or realistic possibility of escaping a daunting situation. No golden bootstrap will magically bring in the fairy godmother. Only those who escaped this awful cycle of poverty own the ethos to comment on the real fix.

No, your comments or views aren't awful. No need to even have that in your post.

Interesting. Yet, I felt the need to make those comments. Why do you think that is?

It comes down to something that's always bothered me, there is no way to police the media or hold them accountable.

I don't think that is the only thing at work here, but I totally agree w/you that the media is a huge contributor to the lawlessness of our country.

It's a very nuanced issue, and a lot of gross generalizations get thrown around and lines get drawn in the sand.

As far as the issue of the police...just like the other side of the coin, they're not helping their case right now.

Calls for justice are being turned into 'anti-police' sentiments by many in the media and among police unions. I can understand them being upset, and would probably be, too.

But there is a real sense of almost pretending that there's not a very serious problem in our justice system and what's increasingly becoming a police state. I say that not only in regards to this topic, but other issues like asset seizures.

So many times when someone makes these types of statements, you start to hear black people need to do this or that, and it's like...what the hell does that have to do with an unarmed man being killed on video by police while pleading that he couldn't breathe, and not a single indictment handed down?

The circus will always bring clowns, and both sides of the coins are piling into the cars, but the Eric Garner case was astonishing to me. I've never seen someone killed on the evening news like that. And the way you hear the police union tell it, to even question the lack of an indictment is an 'anti-police' sentiment.

I think Andrew Hawkins summed it up pretty well with his comments. I'm glad he didn't comply with the CPD's request for an apology and the Browns backed him.

Interesting take, but I have some issues w/what you are implying.

You make it sound like all police officers are just like the guy who choked the guy out. How can you justify that? It seems you are making similar broad-sweeping generalizations that the people you despise are making. Do two wrongs equal a right?

Let's say you and I are cops. Neither of us are racist. We just do our jobs. We are targeted and either assaulted or shot because we are part of a certain group. Should we suffer because others in our fraternity are corrupt?

Do you not see how it is wrong when any one group is vilified and/or victimized because they are part of said group?

Do you not see the double standard that most of America has either accepted or are just downright scared to voice their opinions on because they will be labeled, branded, and unfairly judged if they dare speak to what they believe?

It's hypocrisy, man. And furthermore, many of those protesting against the unjust crimes by the police in a few isolated incidents are just an excuse by many to practice lawlessness. And if you can't see that, then God help you.

This should make you happy, pit.

I don't trust the cops, and I don't like(some) cops.

At all.

Do you like all low-income people?

Do you trust them more than you do cops?

Be honest.

I'm very anti social.

I don't like a lot of people.

But I'd trust low income people before I trust cops.

I'm not making any broad sweeping generalizations, nor did I in any way shape or form even come close to insinuating that "all police officers are just like the guy who choked the guy out". Could you clarify, or are you just making a broad, sweeping generalization?

I'm talking about two very specific things - the killing of Eric Garner, and the manner in which the NYPD union has responded to the legitimate concern that there wasn't an indictment.

They're turning they're back on DeBlasio at a funeral and talking as if he killed two cops. And why? Because he admitted that the incident was disturbing, and that the NYPD has a history of problems killing unarmed men, particularly of color?

As I said, they're not helping their case.

That's not a proper response. That's a Sean Hannity response.



The more you use that word, the less I'm sure that you know what it means.

And another thing............

My wife is a minority. My children are, as well. I was a pretty good athlete and most of my friends are African American. My kids were good athletes and our house was always full---much to the dismay of our prejudiced neighbors--of black kids. So, I don't wanna hear this prejudiced crap.

However, when I taught in East Cleveland at an alternative school for troubled youths who had been kicked out of public schools [you gotta really do some stuff to be kicked out of E. Cleveland schools...LOL] I had a precious student who was gang raped and murdered in a parking lot that was less than a 1/4 mile from our school. She was a beautiful child, inside and out. She was 12 years old. Her only problem is that her brother was part of an opposing gang and he had hurt someone in this particular gang. My beautiful student was raped. Tortured. Murdered.

It got two paragraphs on a back page in the Plain Dealer.

It's freaking hypocrisy, Swish! And just because a couple of cops are idiots, it doesn't give others the right to kill--and attack--innocent police officers.

How can you not see that?

Then you have not been in the ghetto.

I'm sorry. I was mistaken in that I thought I was the one who initiated the thread and discussion and that you replied to me.

My mistake.

That was a joke, right?

Excuse me?

You said: "You make it sound like all police officers are just like the guy who choked the guy out".

Could you please clarify what you meant by that? Can you cite any specific passage that backs that? Or your assertion that "it seems you are making similar broad-sweeping generalizations"?

Yeah, kinda.

Look man, I was born poor. I lived in the ghetto. I am actually kind of proud of that. I was unusual because I liked to read in addition to playing sports and raising hell. I used to read all these books about how evil the rich people were and how morally sound the poor people were, but man, it just wasn't true. The morals of the people in the ghetto were pretty lame, bro. If they can get over on you, they did. Stealing, raping, murdering, was a way of life for many.

You can't say that about the police. And I know that many cops are assholes. I don't even like most cops I have met because I was on the wrong side of things, but man, there is no way that they are more untrustworthy as people in the hood.

Not sure what you are talking about. But, I am not going to allow you to derail my intentions for this thread.

Let me be real clear............I think it is BS that our police officers have to live in fear because of the mistakes of a few. I think it is BS that a bunch of corrupt, amoral people are exploiting the tragedy of what happened to a few victims into an excuse to attack innocent police officers and continue their pursuit of lawlessness.

Go ahead and defend them. Pass the blame on ALL the police officers in the country........and if you do not see the hypocrisy of that attitude, than you have my sympathy.

You understand exactly what I'm talking about. It was beyond clear.

You made a sweeping generalization about me, and are unable to cite any evidence to back your assertion.

I'll ask again. If you still don't understand, read slower:


You said: "You make it sound like all police officers are just like the guy who choked the guy out".

Could you please clarify what you meant by that? Can you cite any specific passage that backs that? Or your assertion that "it seems you are making similar broad-sweeping generalizations"?

Don't just make vapid accusations and then back off when you get called on it.

Learn to back statements with evidence from the text.

Again...can you cite evidence of me "passing the blame on all the police officers of the country" in either of my previous two posts?

This is like debating Sean Hannity, if Sean Hannity drank a pint of Jameson and then got a concussion.

You act like you are in charge around here. You are not. You made a stupid comment. I addressed it. You want to change the main idea of the thread and I won't allow it.

It's as simple as that.

You still refuse to answer two very simple questions.

The reason you refuse to answer them is very clear.

I will ask a third time:

You said: "You make it sound like all police officers are just like the guy who choked the guy out".

Could you please clarify what you meant by that? Can you cite any specific passage that backs that? Or your assertion that "it seems you are making similar broad-sweeping generalizations"?


Can you cite evidence of me "passing the blame on all the police officers of the country" in either of my previous two posts?

Those are two very simple questions. You continue to deflect from answering them.

If you make an assertion, you should be able to back it with evidence.

You do realize I was raised in the hood right?

Land of the heartless. That's not just a saying. I'm from the hood on the east side of cleveland. I don't need any flash back stories from somebody who clearly assumed I don't know anything about being poor.

Let me know when you stop making sweeping assumptions, then we can talk about cops.

You complain about staying on topic but you fall right into another personal argument completely unrelated to your topic; let's try ignoring others and not try and turn the thread into this:


Both groups are at fault.

We need to come together and resolve the root of these issues. This would mean we'd have to tackle the giant pink elephant known as poverty. We all know how that goes.

Good point. I will ignore the ........

Look, there is a huge divide in our country. We can only solve and conquer the problem by approaching it from an intelligent manner and educating all. Perpetuating hate and making sweeping generalizations solves nothing.

Here is an analogy that some will get and others will crap on.

At my previous school, we had a couple come in and perform during Black History month. They were husband and wife. The man was black and had on one of those African hats that Jim Brown used to wear. The lady was white and looked like an aged hippie w/long flowing gray hair. Their music was good and I was jamming w/it. The best part was when they would stop and tell stories between each song.

One story went as follows: Back in the day, white men were imprisoned for educating black men and the black man was whipped in public. He asked the kids why was that. They didn't know. He explained that keeping a group of people ignorant meant that they could be controlled. He kept preaching that "knowledge is power." "Knowledge is power!"

Man, I kinda knew all this stuff before, but he made it real.

Hate is not the answer people. Killing cops is wrong. Hating the white man is wrong. Robbing stores is wrong. Looting is wrong.

MLK was right. My man, the folk singer, was right. Booker T. Washington was right. Earn what you get. You are capable. Don't succumb to the hate and ignorance of the unworthy. Rise above. Educate yourselves. Be better than those who despise you. Beat them at their own game.

I've had too many experiences with cops to change my opinion of them.

I don't support killing anybody. What happened was terrible.

But I absolutely support protesting and rioting against the cops.

Well, little buddy............no one can say that you weren't talked to.

Swish, rioting leads to nothing productive. It just leads to more noise, destruction, and disarray.

You should look into the fundamentals of Civil Disobedience.

Agreed. MLK has a national holiday not because he looted and rioted, but because he used intelligence to combat the haters.

How can anyone support rioting?

Vers, I think the main takeaway is what was taught to your students. The disconnect is when you, me, and everyone else tends to think "it's just that simple!"

Lots of compounding problems happen trying to escape poverty. People deny this but certain races are at advantages/disadvantages. Nothing will be done until we can admit that without outrage.

I hear you, but in the meantime.............I think it is imperative that we protect our police and laws in this country.

We absolutely cannot allow a few wrong moves by the powers that be to lead to an excuse to become a lawless society.

I'm not kidding about that.

Right here there's a huge disconnect with low income people and cops.

More specifically, the justic department. I still feel like hey are targeting poor people to fill their pockets while the rich get slaps on the wrist.

And just to be clear, even though I've said it over and over again.

I don't support the looting and destruction of business. or defending criminals.

I
But I do feel there needs to be a drastic change with regards to cops and low income personnel.

Yeah, we have heard that over and over and over and over.

But how in the f.............does that give the right for any poor person to kill a cop?

Think about it, Swish! You know I like you like a little brother, but come on, man! My point of starting this thread was that no matter what happened............there is no excuse for killing police officers.

And if you wanna deny that, I will come through this screen ...............ahhh........I can't say even if I was just kidding. Last time I was kidding around, I got suspended.

Directly speaking on this topic: no arguments from me bro. You know his.

I don't support that either. That was a tradegy. Should've never happened, and was senseless killing.


Here's my issue: I don't like the fact that some people treat this like cops are more important than everyday American citizens. People are treating them like they are somehow above us.

They use to treat us soldiers like that. And I NEVER liked it. I have experiences, yes. But at the end of the day, I put my socks on the same way you do in the morning.

That's my problem with it. The only issue. This country only wants to get their hands dirty and get to the root of the problem when the extreme happens. Never before.

It takes cops dying to finally have some attention brought to this issue.

I hear you. But man, that point has been beaten to death. It's all we hear. Cops are assholes. Poor black men are being unjustly shot and killed.

I am going in another direction on this thread. I am not discounting the unjustness of some of the police brutality, but man, that is ALL we hear.

I want this thread to go deeper.

Hey Swish............you wanna be a cop? You wanna go down into East Cleveland and break up a domestic dispute? You wanna stop a drug deal on E. 55th and Howard? Would you feel safe while upholding the law? Would you feel less safe than you would have prior to the Ferguson episode? Would you be wrong for doing your job? Should you be shot just because you were a cop?

And the biggest question of all...........would you ignore a crime because you were afraid of the repercussions of someone accusing you of being a prejudiced cop?

I'm telling you, bro..............this is going to hurt us as a society. It's going to alienate blacks and whites even more so.

If you haven't done so already, go research Booker T. Washington. He had it right.

You've got to be kidding me.

You've spent this entire thread rambling in vague generalizations, and outright refusing to address or support arguments that are obviously hot air.

You've been the exact example of what I was initially referring to. I bring up very valid points about the death of Eric Garner, while being sympathetic to the police officer's plight, and you come back blathering about me painting an entire nation of police as the enemy.

You were worried earlier about sounding racist? You don't sound racist. But you do sound vapid. You decided before you posted this that anyone who didn't give you a here! here! would be the strawman that you wanted to demonize, hence you making conclusions on my statements that had no basis in reality.

Which is precisely what I said about the police union and their reaction to everything. They're handling the situation poorly, which fosters division. I stated in my initial post that both sides were doing this as well, but you had already decided that your strawman would be a hypocrite, so you ignored that and went ahead with the complaints that you've concocted for the opposition.