DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Johnny Manziel Chronology with the Browns

I am not picking on him, bug Good God! The guy speaks down to everyone and his manic obsession w/hating on Manziel is downright weird.

pick on him i dont mind lol. I am in a battle with a fifth of evan williams honey reserves, i aint sure who is winning. I have almost killed him but he has kicked my ass lol. happy new years and hopefully this time next year we are celebrating a bye in the first round of the playoffs!!!

I like where this team is even though I understand it was a creampuff schedule. Get the OL back to being top 3 like they were early adn the D continues to improve the way they were and we got a chance. Fortunately for the Browns i dont generally miss on QBs. The only guy i really missed on was Ryan Fitzpatrick, i wanted to spend a 2nd a on him cause i thought he could develop into a franchise. Other than that I have been on.

I hope like hell i am right on Johnny. If not Dak Prescott is the only receiver i would consider drafting and unless we can trade for Glennon there isnt a QB out there that i am interested in, that includes Foles and Cousins. cousins is another backup and well Foles aint going anywhere.

Prescott only QB i would consider slight mistake there.

odd I read that and It sounded right... Guess the tequila is kicking my ass

What you don't see...

Arrests,
DUI,
Domestic Violence charges,

He is not the first 21 year old that likes to party.

If he can play QB that will change a lot of opinions.

Yep, but totally different personalities.

-Press darlings,

-Kicked butt in college.

-Can't cut it in the NFL.

This coming from the guy who constantly gets banned because he can't resist the urge to call people derogatory names when he throws temper tantrums?

Do you honestly think we would go into next year with Manziel as our starting QB?

Unless the kid is an abomination, he will be the starter next year. They will prop him up to be the starter this upcoming season, just like they wanted Hoyer to start this year. I mean Johnny got no first team reps at all until after the scrimmage and even then Hoyer got majority of practice reps and all the preseason starts.

They will bring in someone they expect Johnny to beat out. Again it will be left up to him to take advantage of that opportunity. There is a reason Farmer and Pettine talked about the growth between year 1 and year 2 in the NFL. This offseason probably decides the kids future. they expect johnny to go out and show he deserves a chance.

They didnt spend a first on him to let 7 quarters of football decide whether or not he can play in the NFL.

He was an abomination, and that's precisely why no one in their right mind would trot him out there to start a campaign. That would be career suicide (then again, we are the Browns).

I can see scenarios where it happens, sure, but that would be out of desperation. It's highly unlikely.

To judge anyone on 7 quarters of football is just foolish. I have seen to many hall of fame QBs and future hall of fame QBs come out and looked horrid not just in their first couple of games but in their first couple of years. Thats not saying he isnt gonna be out of the league this time next year but it is way to early to tell one way or the other.

I dont think it takes as long for a QB to show something now as it did a decade or two ago because of the rule changes but it still does take time. I saw growth from his first start to his second.

Next year he will know the language, he wont be learning it. He will know the players and wont be the shy guy that sat behind Hoyer this year. If you dont think a player improves from his rookie year to his 2nd year then I really dont know what to say. College spread to Shannahan's west coast scheme isnt something mastered over night.

I would have played him day one and let him learn on the job but Pettine wanted to redshirt him and only put him into the lineup as a hail marry attempt to change the downward spiral our offense was in.

Do you know how many variations of this we've heard over the years regarding Browns QB's?

This is all wishful thinking.

The mountain Manziel needs to climb is immense. It's steeper than Weeden's.

Buzzwords about expected progression feel good, but they rarely turn out right without any logic or reason behind it, and they certainly don't make a case for giving a guy the keys, unless you're stuck.

I certainly hope we don't get stuck in that. Windows to win in the NFL are short.

You so funny. I got my wish already and thats Hoyers gone, not because i didnt like the guy just because his cult was so damned annoying.

It has nothing to do with a dislike of Manziel as a person.

My dislike stems from our organization spending a first round pick in a guy who should've gone in the 4th-7th range.

You guys keep insisting on that, despite the fact that I've laid out in detail precisely why we shouldn't have taken him, and why he won't make it as a pro.

Everything I've said about him to date has not only been backed by evidence, logic, and reason, but also turned out to be true. It hasn't worked out so well for your opinion...is it possible that maybe I'm not the one whose viewpoint is being dictated by emotional factors?

I have zero problem with the Browns having a player I dislike as a person. None at all. I'd welcome aboard Ray Rice if I thought he could help us win. I do have a problem with us consistently drafting low odds gambles.

And "the cult"? Seriously? This is coming from the guy who expected Manziel to be the reason for a 50 point swing in the Colts game?

I never thought Hoyer was a long term solution, but I can at least understand the hope pinned on him. You talk about Manziel on a level that doesn't acknowledge reality.

If you don't think a player improves from his rookie year to his 2nd year then I really dont know what to say.

you could say sophomore slump. ooooh that's a spooky thought. (sorry i haven't figured out the smilies yet)

LOL. Nice catch, there is a silver lining after all. JFF can't really have a sophomore slump.

Winner of the thread.

He's just the devil version of him. As talentless, as double-faced and as hyped up. Those two would make for a great reality show, but not NFL QBs

I guess you saying that is good news considering your past evaluations of QBs.

You're right, any Manziel supporter should be more concerned with you already backing out of his corner. Normally you've backed your losers longer (Mangini, Banner, Mingo, Manziel...did I miss anyone?), but it looks like you're speeding up the process. That's improvement, I guess.

Look, we both wanted Bridgewater. I said right after the draft that this decision was 2009 all over again and it will cost us years. We will have another rebuild after 2015 and officially wasted a decade of Joe Thomas.

I was just teasing you.

Yeah, I wanted Teddy. I still think we made a huge mistake. I did have Manziel above some other QBs even though I always said he had the biggest boom/bust potential of any qb out there. But, he was my number 2 guy and it sure looks like I was dead wrong about that. The guy could not have played any worse than he did in that first start. Man, that was painful to watch.

I think he gets another shot next year, but I am not feeling too confident. I am not totally writing him off, but man, it doesn't look good.

Anybody think Winston looked really good in the pocket?

Far better in the pocket than Petty,
Mariota, etc...

He made some good decisions, his throws were accurate. His velocity was real good.

He didn't show his normal inconsistency, and slow start.

He can go vertical. He can drive it down field and he has a nice long ball.

What's it going to take to get a guy who has the skill-set, athleticism, and head on the shoulders needed?

Only our soul

Django, Vers

Ok. Put it out there.

How successful will Teddy be? Give us your predictions.

What is his ceiling?

Let's hear it.



I see a limited system QB

Andy Dalton 2.0 But without as many stupid interceptions.

Will never be able to get past the first round of playoffs.

Cannot drive the ball down field with enough velocity to go vertical against top playoff caliber NFL defenses. And, never will be able to.

He is no Flacco or Big Ben, once again, he's Dalton.

Durability is always going to be a question. Once the big boys really nail him there's a good chance things will change.

2nd to 3rd tier level starter period.

We want the Super Bowl.

Johnny may not the answer, but Teddy certainly isn't either. He's not elite. Why should we waste our time with him?

If you cannot throw the ball down field, if you can't go vertical, you cannot win in the playoffs. That's just the way it is. Plain and simple.

Nothing else is acceptable.

Ha-ha!



...Actually, a few more of ^those^ kinda plays in the future and I could perhaps argue your point!

-Man, is it ever tough being a Browns fan.

Was going to post this in the has Johnny Manziel crossed the line? thread...then it disappeared.

Manziel is a long term project.

With that said, he would need to do the following to convince me he is a professional NFL caliber QB:

Put in MUCH extra time in the off season

Attend OTAs........regularly and stay extra time

Go above and way, way beyond the "required" activities

Study the playbook and learn how to use it since he did not learn how to in college

Bulk up and spend time daily working out...he is a scrawny little man both physically and mentally

Grow up in the next 6 months (which is why I do not feel he is an integral part of this team.....he cannot grow up in time)

Conduct himself in accordance with a PROFESSIONAL taking cues from the likes of Joe Thomas and Brian Hoyer...(another reason he will not be an integral part of this team, he thinks he is all that and most likely will not learn from other respected professionals)

Shut his big mouth!!!! Put up or shut up!!!


Commit to not becoming a distraction for the Browns....Ha!Ha! Yeah right. Small man Johnny thrives on that......most insecure individuals enjoy that type of hype to pump themselves

Find a mentor to spend time with and work on developing some actual NFL Q B level fundamentals and skills.

Set goals....related to football skills....for himself

Sorry it wasn't quick and to the point as you requested but there is just so much for him to do to make me believe he can jump back to the positive side of the line he has crossed in my mind

Yep, this is the guy we should start

Lol I recall when watching that live and in real-time. The first thing I did after watching JF was look at what direction the line was blocking to eliminate if it were JF or West having the brain fart. Confirmed it was JF.

I think you guys could be wrong about that. We use a ZBS system that employs a lot of misdirection and counters. The backs often start going the other way and then make one-cut to the hole.

Watching the interaction of the players after that play, I got the sense it was West who went in the wrong direction.

But there's two unblocked defenders where Manziel's handoff would have led the RB? If it was West's fault then he must have also lined up in the wrong spot, in which case its still the QB's responsibility to reset him. JMO, but I think the play was pretty clearly designed to flow to the right and handoff to the right.

It sure looks to me like it should have gone up the middle/right, but it's sometimes hard to tell from a still photo. However, as you point out, it is hard to believe that we would run into a unblocked defenders crashing the line, while there was a hole with only 1 apparently unblocked defender, and the FB out there who did not appear to be engaged with anyone.

the same thing happened at least a half dozen times this year with west, crow and hoyer. Everyone is still learning the system.

I would guess it did..........but come on, I never saw Hoyer fake handoff to no one.

goal line against Pittsburgh first game late

You don't remember him messing up the play and getting stepped on/tripping? It happened at least 5-10 times. Our entire offense was pretty ineffective once we lost our ability to run.

Come on, Mourg.

Didn't you know that it was Manziels fault for Ferguson and the choking death in NY?

It's Manziel who started the Ebola outbreak.

Seven feet of snow in Buffalo? You guessed it, Manziel went there to buy coke.

A typhoon in the Phillippines? That was caused by Manziel talking so much.

Planes dropping from the skies? Yep, it's all Manziel's doing.

If something goes wrong.........it's Johnny's fault. Heck, Josh Gordon NEVER got into trouble until Johnny showed up.

Quit defending Manziel, Mourg...........he's the devil.

Yeah, there were some plays where it almost looked like the QB and/or RB thought one play was called, and the OL though a different play was called. I have no clue who was at fault, because they resulted in the RB running into a brick wall.

I do recall at least 1 or 2 where the RB went the opposite way of what Hoyer expected as well.

Well you can add this one to the list.


http://www.tmz.com/2015/01/05/johnny-manziel-drinks-thrown-at-qb-at-houston-nightclub/

My god, is this what the entire offseason is going to be? If so, I'm just going to log off til preseason.

Listen folks, its a QB weak draft anyways. So its either Hoyer and Manziel again (not likely as Hoyer will likely look for more $ and guaranteed starter spot) or Manziel and somebody else. Yeah Manziel looked horrible in his starts but really did ANYONE look good in those games on the offense?

So everyone relax, have a beer and we can continue to build the talent around whoever our QB is going to be.