DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 49ers ask for permission to talk to Kyle Shanahan

Personally I think he sucks.

Can Aaron Rodgers and GB take over the ball at the 20 with 40 seconds remaining and drive down for a FG before halftime. Yes. Can Brian Hoyer and the Cleveland Browns do the same thing? Highly unlikely.

Can Aaron Rodgers and GB take over the ball at the 20 with 40 seconds remaining and drive down for a FG before halftime. Yes. Can Brian Hoyer and the Cleveland Browns do the same thing? Highly unlikely. Instead of running the ball and draining the clock we end up giving the ball back to the other team in position to possibly get a score as time runs out in the half

jest...In Rogers first year in the Mike McArthy offense, do you believe he could accomplish the task you explained above?

So many forget, experience running an offensive scheme DOES MATTER.

Do you believe Hoyer could be better running this offense with a year of experience under his belt?

Vers - I don't remember which game off the top of my head which is why I didn't spaecifically reference it but there were at least 2 games where a situation similar to that happened. Now that I am thinking about it, I think that one might have been at the end of the game. Honestly though, I don't remember all the details.

Mac - My point is that Shanahan should have recognized that and taken it into consideration when making his play calls. We all knew that there was a higher probability that we give the ball back and the opponent tries a long fg before the half than us driving down and attempting our own fg.

Would you care to provide some specific examples of how his playcalling and design are inferior to those of other offensive coordinators? Would you please talk about the route trees, blocking schemes, horizontal and vertical stretches, timing of the plays, etc?

Or, are you opinions more along the lines of how anarchy makes formulates his opinions?

I will be anxiously awaiting your expert analysis. LOL

That is called avoidance.

Picking on me? LOL

You made an ignorant statement. I asked you to clarify. You refused. You then turned it around and hurled an insult and asked me to explain why he is good.

That is called avoidance.

You're full of crap on this one, CHS. You are just making stuff up.

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ASHBURN, Va. – After the Browns hired Kyle Shanahan in February, Brian Hoyer placed a call to his old college teammate and Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins.

The competitive St. Ignatius product wanted a jumpstart on the offensive system and a scouting report on the coordinator who the Redskins had fired as part of a messy and public coaching-staff purge.

"I told him nothing but good things," Cousins said.

"He's one of those guys who were going to put you in position to be successful. There are those play callers that when you leave a drive you know the play calling put you in a good position.

"With Kyle, every time I came off the field I found myself going over to him and saying, 'Great calls.'"

The Browns, who face the Redskins on Monday night in Washington, hardly resemble the top-10 offenses Shanahan has coordinated in four of the past six years. They haven't scored a touchdown in their team scrimmage or first exhibition game. Receivers drop passes. Quarterbacks are inconsistent. The offense appears slow to grasp schemes.

But a sampling of Redskins -- including Robert Griffin III, who had a falling-out with Shanahan -- reveals a continued belief in the system he installed over four seasons. In fact, the offense new coach Jay Gruden runs is similar to the one Shanahan employed. The Redskins even retained the zone-blocking scheme that turned unheralded Alfred Morris into a Pro Bowl running back.

"We had some ups and downs," Griffin said diplomatically of his two seasons under Shanahan. "We were able to win the division (in 2012). The next year we had a disastrous season going 3-13.

"I think Kyle has a great, innovative mind and does some great things with the play calling and formations. Nobody can ever knock him for that."

'Adapt and adjust'

Browns fans have heard about Shanahan's ability to run varied offenses in Houston and Washington. While they might have forgotten, the Browns got an unwanted taste of his talents on Dec. 16, 2012 as Cousins made his first NFL start in place of an injured Griffin.
Kyle ShanahanView full sizeBrowns offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan spent the last four seasons with the Washington Redskins. Associated Press

Shanahan scrapped the read-option plays and tweaked the offense to fit Cousins' skill set. The result was a 26-of-37 effort for 329 yards and two touchdowns.

"He put some things right in my wheelhouse," Cousins said. "He's not one to get set in his ways. He's always looking for ways to do his job better."

Shanahan demonstrated his play-calling versatility in the Browns' preseason opener. Hoyer took 60 percent of his 25 snaps under center to capitalize on his conventional style. Nearly half of Johnny Manziel's 27 reps came from the pistol formation to take advantage of his mobility.

"Kyle will adapt and adjust his offense to the talent level and that's a sign of a smart offensive coordinator," said former Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann. "You'll see him have two different kinds of offense in Cleveland. (Hoyer) moves pretty well, but Johnny has exceptional skill with his legs."

Manziel has struggled with the wordiness of Shanahan's play calls. Cousins conceded they're a mouthful, especially for rookies used to the brevity in many college programs. He's convinced, however, the Texas A&M product will learn to spit them out.

The Browns signed former Redskins third-stringer Rex Grossman this week to help Hoyer and Manziel decode the offense. They reportedly had strong interest in acquiring Cousins, but the Redskins rejected a draft day trade for a fourth-round pick.

"I think all off-season there was that possibility," the quarterback said. "My wife and I were ready to roll with whatever happened."

Another high-profile QB

Shanahan is coaching his second Heisman Trophy winner in two years. Griffin and Manziel, a pair of much-hyped, dual-threat quarterbacks, met this summer at the Nissan "Heisman House." The topic of Shanahan's offense was a central part of their 15-minute discussion. Griffin said he tutored Manziel on some finer points of the system, but thought he had a good handle of it.

Strained relations between Griffin and the Shanahans -- Kyle and head coach Mike -- dominated the second half of last season, taking the form of many anonymously sourced stories. The coordinator's people skills and maturity were questioned.
I think Kyle has a great, innovative mind and does some great things with the play calling and formations. Nobody can knock him for that.

Following an electric rookie year, Griffin regressed after coming off surgery to repair two knee ligaments. Some Redskins observers believe the quarterback lost trust in Shanahan for continuing to run the zone read even as Griffin was laboring.

"I'm not going to say it was easy," the coordinator said in February of the trying times he endured in 2013. "Nothing's easy when you go through something like that. But I do believe going through it -- Robert and I in the long run -- it'll make both of us better. It's something that is a challenge, and I do think going through that, as hard as it was, will help me."

It's believed Griffin had deeper issues with Mike Shanahan. The quarterback didn't rule out an on-field chat with his former coordinator Monday night.

"If we get a chance to talk I'm sure we'll make that happen," he said. "If we don't it won't be anything that's vindictive. I can tell you this, nobody watches more film than Kyle Shanahan."

Browns fans must hope the lessons learned with Griffin will benefit Shanahan in his mentoring of Manziel.

'Schemes make players'

Santana Moss has heard the concerns about a Browns receiving corps expected to lose Josh Gordon to a drug suspension. Absent the All Pro, it could be one of the league's worst, a mishmash of aging castoffs and unproven youngsters.

The Redskins receiver thinks otherwise. His source of confidence? The Browns' new offensive coordinator.
'Schemes make players' Washington Redskins receiver Santana Moss believes Kyle Shanahan's schemes will benefit the Browns receiving corps.

"They still have talent," Moss said, "I get little pissed off when they start naming names in this league. You don't have to be a name guy in this league to play well in a good corps, a good scheme. Schemes make players. If you're in a good system it makes you.

"Those guys ought to be able to thrive real nice in that offense because it's going to give you so many chances to get open."

Those comments might produce eye rolls from cynical Browns fans. They are likely to put more stock, however, in the assessment of Morris on Shanahan's success with the run game. The Redskins finished top-5 in rushing the past two seasons.

Since Shanahan's arrival, the Browns have invested heavily in the ground game, acquiring Ben Tate through free agency and drafting Terrance West in the third round. The club also has adopted the zone-blocking scheme and drafted guard Joel Bitonio in the second round.

"(The Shanahans) do a good job of finding running backs to fit their system," said Morris, a 2012 sixth-round gem from Florida Atlantic. "It's not that every running back is going to be a success in that system. They do a good job of weeding through the draft and free agency to find which ones make sense for them."

As the Browns stumble about searching for an offensive flow, Cousins' encouraging words to Hoyer in February seem hard to believe. But before heading into the Redskins' locker room Friday, the third-year quarterback doubled down.

"Those guys have a lot to look forward to," Cousins said. "They're in good hands with Kyle."

I hate to be an ass, but no one says a daggone thing when I say Celine Deon has a great voice and Clem corrects me. Why not? Because he is a professional musician.

His offense worked when our line was healthy and there was no Gordon.

We are an extremely talented team, maybe one of the top 5-10 in the league.

We're not that consistent to be in the top 5-10. We're in the middle of the pack. Take off your brown and orange glasses

e are an extremely talented team, maybe one of the top 5-10 in the league. Coaching is what's holding us back.

Do you have the experience that I do?

That is a completely illogical argument. How are we a top 5 or 10 talented team? Seriously?

You say you don't have time to tell me how our play design is inept, but you seemingly have time to make stupid ass posts like that one.

Dude, prove to us why our offensive play design is inept. We are anxious to hear you break down the blocking schemes, tree routes, horizontal and vertical stretches, traps, counters, misdirections, etc.

I truthfully think you don't squat about any of that stuff and you will come back w/some personal comment.

And this is why this board sucks. People throw out strong opinions, but refuse to back them up w/logic and reason and instead, resort to idiotic retorts.

Whatever man.......

And this is why this board sucks. People throw out strong opinions, but refuse to back them up w/logic and reason and instead, resort to idiotic retorts.

Whatever man.......

Do you have the experience that I do?

Shanny didn't impress me... we had another QB controversy 11 games into the season..

And running up the middle the last 5 games with rookie RB's.

Would you say we had less talent this year or more talent this year compared to last year?