DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 49ers ask for permission to talk to Kyle Shanahan

Good God! The Merry-Go-Round-of-Misery continues.

LB: I think that article deserves its own thread. It's bigger than just Shanny.

Or add it to the climate in Berea thread

You are right. I hadn't read that thread yet. That would be another good spot. Thanks.

Posted it into the climate thread too, maybe LaCanfora isn't a full moron LOL! So sad on many levels if all it's true.

Thanks.........and yeah, you're right.

I'd like to know when the 'friction' started..during the second half collapse or in the draft room?

Makes me wonder....and I know this is pure speculation on my part... if the reason JM was started was due to FO pressure. It would not seem a far stretch for KS to be ordered to start JM and when it failed - in epic splendor - the FO was left with egg on their faces. If so there can be only one outcome to save face - push KS out...which would stink as IMO, he did a pretty good job with the first year playbook offense.

For a majority of the year I felt Shanny was our MVP of our team...I really don't want to lose him...for once in forever we were actually moving the ball all over the field...at one point we were what a top 3 rushing team? A lot of his play calling made our team like more competent then what it actually was...I know we had multiple problems towards the end of the season...but I'd hate to loose shanahan ...now I don't mind Jim O'Neal leaving lol

Yea, I just read that he might be outta here. Kinda sad. I thought he did a good job with what he had, especially while Mack was still playin.'

I wonder if a team has ever traded its offensive coordinator? Is that even legal?

So only HCs and GMs can be "traded" for compensation..

So much for that. Maybe promote him to assistant GM/offensive coordinator?

j/c

Are the Browns and Kyle Shanahan heading for a parting or a new commitment?

The Morning Kickoff …

Calm before the storm?: For the first time in three years, the Browns aren’t planning changes at general manager or head coach.

More accurately, owner Jimmy Haslam said “absolutely” that GM Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine would be back.

But that doesn’t mean all is tranquil in Berea. Evaluation meetings taking place this week will plot the course the Browns take in the always-critical offseason. Let’s touch on a few issues percolating on the front burner.

Kyle Shanahan: The offensive coordinator is the key to everything.

The whole point of returning Pettine to the job despite another Browns free fall is to establish continuity. If Shanahan leaves, the offense will change and Joe Thomas and Alex Mack – that’s enough of problem right there – will not be happy campers.

Why and how would Shanahan leave?

He could receive a head coaching offer.

Shanahan reportedly will interview with the Buffalo Bills on Thursday. The Buffalo job, while one of only 32 in the world, is the least desirable in the NFL. The Bills have a novice owner who was just jilted by his inherited coach (Doug Marrone) and by his hand-picked choice for football czar (Bill Polian). Plus, the Bills’ quarterback situation is bleak (E.J. Manuel?) and the team is without a No. 1 draft pick after trading it to the Browns for a receiver (Sammy Watkins) who wasn’t even the best of the last draft, which is probably the No. 1 reason Marrone opted to walk away with a slyly negotiated $4 million severance check.

It’s possible that Shanahan might be the last available candidate willing to take over that situation, but not likely.

If Shanahan has learned anything from his father, Mike, it is that coaches in the NFL can’t win without a decent quarterback. Which brings us to why he may be angling to leave the Browns.

If the Bills’ quarterback situation is bleak, then how should that of the Browns be characterized? Not quite as bleak, only because the Browns have two first-round picks -- theirs at No. 12 and Buffalo’s at No. 19.

But there is this elephant in the room – the palpable pressure from forces inside the building to play Johnny Manziel.

Cleveland.com, citing anonymous “multiple league sources,” reported on Tuesday that “friction between some of the coaches and some in the front office,” partly due to disagreements about Manziel, has caused Shanahan “to consider leaving” the Browns, possibly for a reunion with his father, who is being courted by the Bears, Raiders, Bills and 49ers.

How Kyle Shanahan is going to gain a release from his contract with the Browns is not addressed in the Cleveland.com report.

This is what I think: Like most everyone else, Shanahan doesn’t have a lot of faith in Manziel’s ability to win in the NFL. I suppose Shanahan feels that committing to Manziel is tantamount to career suicide. So he may leverage his unhappiness for a team commitment to acquire a bridge quarterback of his choice (Kirk Cousins, whom he wanted last year?) and yet another hopeful in the draft.

The Browns may have no better option than to turn over their quarterback hunt to Shanahan.

If they release him from their contract, they have to start over with a new offensive coordinator and possibly a different offensive system. And if they do that, they effectively will have counteracted the continuity they so desperately need to maintain.

Brian Hoyer: Shanahan wanted to replace him, or at least supplement him, with Cousins last year, but Washington’s price tag was laughably too high. If Shanahan is given the authority to make the call on a veteran quarterback, it could seal the increasing likelihood of Hoyer not returning to the Browns.

Josh Gordon: Are the enigmatic receiver’s days as Browns numbered? Possibly.

Will the Browns part ways with Gordon and “send a message” that lax effort and commitment to the team concept will not be tolerated? I highly doubt it.

First, there is absolutely no benefit in -- or reason for -- making a move on Gordon at this time. How does it make the team better to subtract the most athletically talented player on the team? How much value is there in receiving “atta boys” from fans exasperated by Gordon’s bizarre play in the last four games and his team suspension for missing a walk-through in the last week?

I would expect, however, the Browns to diligently explore a trade of Gordon. They couldn’t reasonably expect to receive an offer comparable to the one rejected at the 2013 trade deadline – a second-round pick and starting-caliber player – supposedly from the 49ers.

Beyond Gordon’s mysterious play after his 10-game NFL suspension is the specter of another indefinite suspension hanging over any trade possibility. One more violation of the NFL drug policy over the next two years will merit an indefinite suspension with no reinstatement for a minimum of one calendar year.

Which team would trade for a player under those conditions? Well, the Browns owe it to themselves to find out.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=41231

Yes, Shanny may leave that is the only truth in this article. How does anyone know what the coaches are thinking. I said it before and I will say it again. . Brian Hoyer will be back and starting day 1 and I also say Manziel will not be here....

Some would think that this article is more proof that something isn't right in berea...

I look at the media the same as I look at meteorologists, I'll believe what they say after it happens!

We could remove some friction perhaps if we re-titled him and elevated him in the pecking order. I prize him enough to ask what he wants to stay here.

Now if the bobeheaded "frictioneers" have decided to force more bad decisions, and impede genuine progress, he should go. But KS, I hope you stay and fight.

Kyle Shanahan, staff inexperience at core of Redskins dysfunction
December 15, 2013 9:34 am ET


For more news and notes from Jason La Canfora, tune into The NFL Today Sunday at noon ET on CBS.

Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, son of head coach Mike Shanahan, has not endeared himself to others on the staff and within Redskins Park, according to numerous team sources. According to current and former staff members, Kyle Shanahan has been granted virtual autonomy by Mike Shanahan to guide the team.

Conversations with several people within the organization have revealed a similar perception of Kyle Shanahan as someone who was empowered and enabled by his father, spending an abundance of time in his father's office, given a wide swath of power, and rubbing many people -- players, fellow coaches and members of football operations -- the wrong way. At the same time, Kyle Shanahan has been the most heavily rewarded of the team's assistant coaches, as team sources said the two-year extension Shanahan earned following the playoff run in 2012 will pay him $1.5M in 2014 alone. That's money he's almost certain to collect away from the team, with this regime widely expected to be fired after this season.

With the team in a 3-10 collapse, Robert Griffin III now inactive and the franchise in disarray, the composition of this staff has fallen under criticism, as has the work of the Shanahans in particular, with the lack of experience and pedigree on the offensive side of the ball seen as a particular problem both within the organization and outside it.

“Kyle is the head coach, it's just that no one knows he is,” said one member of the organization. “He gets whatever he wants. And he has no relationship at all with (quarterback Robert Griffin II). So how could it work?”

Kyle Shanahan apparently rubs many people within the Redskins organization the wrong way. (USATSI)
Kyle Shanahan apparently rubs many people within the Redskins organization the wrong way. (USATSI)
As a former member of the organization put it: “Kyle bitches about everything, and then his father has to fix it. He bitches about the food in the cafeteria, he bitches about the field, he bitches about the equipment. He complains and then Mike takes care of it. Kyle is a big problem there. He is not well liked.”

Several members of the organization said Kyle Shanahan was a cause of internal strife, surrounding himself with young coaches with inferior experience, and allowing for no checks and balances of outside voices in the offensive coaching rooms.

“This is the NFL, it's not supposed to be a training ground for coaches,” said someone who has worked with Kyle Shanahan in Washington. “It's ridiculous. Look at this staff. It sucks. Mike's best buddy is (longtime Shanahan assistant and current linebackers coach Bob Slowik), and Slowik's son is in his second year out of college and he's on the staff. Everyone on the staff is in his first or second year except for Mike and Kyle and Haslett (defensive coordinator Jim Haslett) and Raheem (Morris, the secondary coach), and everyone knows Raheem is there because he is close with Kyle. Those two go way back.

MORE JASON LA CANFORA
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“Kyle's not that confident, so they set him up with a bunch of yes men rather than have some experienced coaches to push him. It's like Kyle is the pied piper and these kids just follow him around. I mean, Mike has been a head coach for 20 years -- usually a guy like that has a posse he can bring with him. So he's got Bobby Turner (running backs coach) here, and Slowik, and that's it. How does that happen? How does he end up hiring all of his son's buddies?

“What Mike has allowed to happen there, with that staff, there is no excuse for. There are guys on that staff who are just not qualified, and it shows up. Have you seen the quarterback develop? Look at (defensive ends Brian) Orakpo and (Ryan) Kerrigan? Are they progressing or regressing? Are you seeing the offensive lineman they drafted making it to the field?' How many players are getting the kind of NFL coaching you'd expect on that staff?”

The Redskins have had a succession of first-time wide receivers coaches on this staff, and the offensive staff has generally been devoid of experience other than Turner. Most of the offensive staff had less than two years of NFL experience before coming to Washington and even in those cases the two years weren't as actual position coaches, but as offensive assistants and low-level help.

Quarterbacks coach Matt LaFleur worked with Kyle Shanahan in Houston and had only two years experience as an “offensive assistant” with the Texans prior to becoming the Redskins QB coach. Similarly, receivers coach Mike McDaniel was a lower-level assistant on the Texans staff before coming to Washington. Tight ends coach Sean McVay's only prior NFL experience to joining Washington came in 2008 as an offensive assistant in Tampa.

“McVay is really the only one of those kids qualified to do what he's doing,” said one member of the organization.

Several members of the Redskins traveling party were perturbed, when, following a win at Dallas on Thanksgiving 2012, Kyle Shanahan and several of his assistants were hollering loudly, crowing and alluding to Cowboys' coach Jason Garrett's job security on the team bus (hooting how they might get him fired) while heading to the airport after the win. The Redskins were just 5-6 themselves at the time and, according to sources, one member of the staff actually told them to “shut up” and diffused the staff.

Furthermore, Kyle Shanahan has long had a very strained relationship with Griffin, sources said, with one staff member saying Shanahan treats Griffin like, “a JV quarterback.”

“Kyle knows ball, but he is just so petty and he picks fights and holds grudges over small stuff,” the source said. “He's a mountain out of a molehill guy, and he's got entitlement syndrome. That's why we ended up hiring all of his close friends and buddies, so no one can challenge him. But it makes you worse in the long run, because there is no accountability. Ultimately, it's his father's fault for pacifying his son.”

Kyle Shanahan had a good run as a member of Gary Kubiak's staff in Houston -- Kubiak was a longtime assistant to Mike Shanahan -- and with the Redskins crumbling, he could end up finding a spot under Kubiak elsewhere if Washington owner Dan Snyder makes major changes as expected (Kubiak was fired as Texans coach last week). But it has long been clear to many people in various corridors of the Redskins' organization that the pair of Mike Shanahan, with his son running the offense, in Washington, has been a doomed combination. Especially within the construct of the lack of other strong voices on the offensive side of the ball, and that nepotism has served to hinder, rather than help, the growth of this franchise and the development of RGIII.

Not to say he was or wasn't the problem in Washington, but RGIII is still there, and had major issues with a new coaching staff this year - for what it's worth.

Some of this seems to be hyperbole. Some of it seems to fabricated. Yet, some of it seems true.

The Browns--as always--are a mess.

j/c

From Jason Cole on Twitter

Source indicated if #Seahawks DC Dan Quinn gets HC job (#Jets strong chance), will try to hire Kyle Shanahan as OC, away from #Browns

Figures, first decent OC comes in and we can't retain him more than a year.

Wonderful news. We can move on to our 12th OC, including HCs that assumed the role since '99 (13th if you want to count the year Jeff Davidson tossed in his $.02).

The consistency in nearly perpetual change is truly remarkable.

I read an article that said that we will try to bring in Charlie Weis at OC if we lose Shanahan.

That would be another offensive philosophy change.

Anyone think this discontent could be masking for him wanting to join his daddy?

Seems too contrived to me. And I wouldn't let him out of his contract should his dad get a gig somewhere.

Which is weird.. because the only time he's seemingly had any success besides one year in Washington was when he worked for other people..

And to be honest, that's maybe a couple years in Houston and Half of this passed season..

I pointed out during the season that sideline videos showed that shan and pettine where having serious issues. I said then that shan doesn't respect Pettine and that I don't think there is a long term fix to that problem.

I would be surprised if shan stick around.

The problem wasn't between Shanny and Pettine, it was between Shanny and an ignorant FO, who wanted to call freaking plays and force feed players onto him while ignoring his requests, like getting a guy like Matt Schwaub.

And tab.......I love ya, man.......but, stop w/this pampered stuff. You have absolutely NO PROOF of that, yet if you say it over and over and over and over like you have been, people are going to believe it because they read it some many times and they won't remember where and from whom? You have absolutely NO PROOF that is true. Please stop.

Not getting Schaub, cutting Tate and Charles Johnson are not the biggest deals in the world..

Schaub got beat out by Carr and hasn't looked good in a while.

Tate got hurt, got an attitude, and was cut by the team that picked him up..

And really, losing Charles Johnson? Him becoming a target for Minny tells more about their WR corps than anything really..

And is there any proof besides he said ..that the FO was forcing their hand...

It's speculation from a disgruntled employee..

LOL.........look at that again. Do you realize how contradictory and ironic that statement is.

And again..........I don't care if you guys are happy he is gone. Be happy.

I am simply saying this................this particular move---he wanted out of a toxic situation---has me considering doing what I tried to talk Clem out of the other day.

When I was talking to Clem, I really didn't think we were this bad, but we are. Besides, Clem is well-liked on this board and he should never leave. Me? LOL..........most will be glad I am gone.

I would never be happy your gone... you are one of us on this board.. I don't give a damn whether we agree or not... It's your participation that makes this board the good thing it is..

I guess i just need more proof that it's a toxic situation... I solely basing my opinion of Shanny from the fact that he was the last to be picked last year of coaches.. and if he was so great why didn't Washington keep him ?

I think he may be wise and has talent... I just think he needs to grow up some..

And really where is the proof the FO wanted to be calling the plays... It's mostly from the Press... And you of all people know better then listening to everything they say

That^ was for Vers.. not sure why it went to that guy... lol sort of funny...

If you just go to the Quick Reply box and reply, it tags it to the original poster (which was me)

If you click Quick Reply under the post you want to reply to, it will tag them..

Just a heads up: If you reply in the "quick reply" area, it automatically references the person that started the thread.

thanks ..I appreciate that..

Thanks.

Washington got rid of him and his dad because Snyder is an idiot and he listened to RGIII last year. Didn't you follow that story? Have you not read the comments from RGIII's teammates?

RGIII blamed the Shannahans for his failings. He went to Snyder and complained. Thus, the Shannahans were out.

Then, this year comes around and RGIII sucked again w/a guy who made Andy "Freaking" Dalton look good.

Now, who do you really think was to blame for that?

Bro, I know play design. Shanny's play design is downright brilliant. As good as I have ever seen. This guy is going to be very successful somewhere.

And if he is.. good for him. He didn't want to be here.. so it wasn't going to be here..

And if he isn't successful somewhere else.. it will probably still be Farmer's fault..

You know... I really don't know what to say. Will this be a good thing for the Browns? Will it be bad? Who friggin knows...

All I know is... with Gordon, Manizel, Shanahan leaving, Joe Banner, Michael Lombardi, etc etc.. it makes me sick the people in control are ruining our beloved franchise.

The last time I felt like this was going into Year 2 of the Pat Shurmur regime. Utter hopelessness. Does anyone really believe we are going to have a good year next year or even the year after that?

What a fall from grace... Crash and burn. Unless Johnny Manizel turns out to live up to all that hype, it's going to be miserable for a few more years around here. I feel like sending a letter to the Browns but it is pointless.

Factory of Sadness.

I followed the story a bit.. but no I did not get into his teammates comments on the situation...

RG didn't suck... Colt was just better Just kidding Vers..

I don't know who to blame for RG's bad year... But who was it that took so much blame for RG's beating ?