DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns parting ways with OC Kyle Shanahan and QB coach Dowell Loggains

At this point in time, I could give a rat's butt what you guys think. I am not even going to argue w/you.

The Browns freaking suck! We had a bright offensive mind and he wanted out because of the FO.

That is freaking toxic.

If you guys think it is a good thing that we are losing him. Fine.

If you think he sucked. Fine.

If you think changing schemes again is good. Fine.

If you think that this will help Manziel develop. Fine.

If you think Mack and Joe will be happy about this move. Fine.

I don't care. I think this move freaking sucks! And I am mad as hell about it!

I think it is entirely possible someone in the Browns brass sent a message down to the sideline about the play calling. I think your assuming that it went to Pettine or Shanahan's cell phone and they are walking around reading texts on the sideline. That is unlikely.

I understand the Browns use Surface tablets. Texts can be sent through them. It's quite possible the text was sent, for example, to the a quality control coach and was instructed to relay the message Pettine or Shanahan.

I mean, we're going on our 6th OC in as many years and our 13th OC since 1999. With the astounding level of dysfunction in the organization since '99 It would almost be more surprising and newsworthy if this sort of nonsense wasn't happening.

It's part of the 5 steps of loss and grief.

I don't believe anyone is revelling in it, nor saying he did a poor job. He was here for a 1 or 2 year stint - we discussed this when he was hired. He will not be easy to replace but no one is irreplaceable.

j/c

Same old Browns.

If JM struggles we'll hear "He's had to learn 2 offensive systems in 2 years." BLURGH.

So sick of this. I'll still watch next year but all of my enthusiasm has been beaten out of me by this organization

good point.... we all need to remember he was a rental... we knew coming in that if he did well he would be gone ( promoted ) and if he did poorly he would be gone... TBT he did ok and he is gone... meh

it's a tough science trying to put together a staff that can all agree when then don't..

Putting personalities together that can take and give and only care about putting a team on the field that wins..

It's no different then this board Vers..Look at all the different views and opinions on here.. no ones wrong because its right to have your own thought on things..

The difficult thing is taking and putting together the core that can work through differences in order to achieve the goal of winning..

You thought Shanny was a good OC for us and so did others.. I didn't really think it was the right fit..But we can discuss it and argue our differences til we become mad and sometimes despiteful of each other..

It happens as posters on this board.. it hurts at times.. but it's the human nature in us..Now lets put us on an
NFL team.. and make that team work...

Some of us would be able to handle the personality conflicts and decision making that isn't to our liking..and some of us wouldn't..

In time.. a group would be thrown together that would make a team a championship contender... It will happen... Look how long it took Green Bay to become a great team after being a great team before.

You spoke very wise words to Clem and I was damn impressed by it.. No matter what posters say on this board I take every ones views sincerely even if it isn't the way I view it.

This board is like a team...even if we don't agree or like someone for their views.. If something bad would happen to them..we would have their back..

In this case as Shanny has left and whether we can accept it or not.. we can't control it..what we have to do is accept it..

Lets move on and look at what the Browns can do to build and improve .. Some day guys we will be Champions... and we will all be proud we didn't quit on this team..

It may take a few years off our lives.. but we will get there..

IMO.. Vers ..if Shanny was a fighter and wanted to be here to turn this team around and make it a winning culture... Then he would have manned up and had the balls to handle the FO..

Seems to me he quit on us..

Brilliant! The PERFECT move! Another year, another system. AWESOME. We fire a guy that helped us win 7 games without a quarterback. Let me say that again. We won 7 games this year WITHOUT A QUARTERBACK! We fire a guy that got us 16 rushing touchdowns this season after the previous seasons 4. TWELVE more in ONE seasons effort! And if Mack doesn't get hurt I bet we hit TWENTY rusihng TD's!

We finally get a solid OC that runs a solid scheme and we dump him after one season. So what idiot is going to clambor for the OC job knowing with absolute certainty he'll be fired after next season as a scapegoat for the front offices blundering?
Farmer doesn't get us a QB that can play, instead he drafts Johnny boy and sticks with Hoyer a backup at BEST. He insists that having wide receiver talent is suicide so he passes on taking one in the draft knowing FULL WELL that the ONLY talent we have at the position is suspended. And Shanhan STILL wins 7 games. If Mack doesn't go down it easily could have been 8 or 9. With mediocre at BEST QB play, virtually ZERO playmaking ability at WR and two rookies at running back.... Yes, we don't want a guy like THAT around. We have to run coaches like that out of town FAST.
But of course, we keep our Jim O'neil because our defense was AWESOME. No, that's not even close to being true. Must be because he and Pettine are best buds. *snicker*

Here in Cleveland we don't want our players to know a system. We want them forever confused and forever trying to catch up. Bravo Mr. Pettine and Mr. Farmer. Can't wait to see what dumb ass scheme you guys cook up next. How about we rotate OC's? Hire 16 of them and we can run a new offense every week? That ought to confuse the hell out of what ever scrub quarterback you saddle us with..... Seriously, I'll bet our next OC runs the spread with Hoyer in the shotgun every down. That would be the perfect system for these morons.

I can't fathom why the hell I follow this team. Brain dead decision after braindead decision.... My father cursed me the day he sat me down and turned the Browns on so many years ago....

We keep MEATHEAD and we fire Shanahan? Unfrickenbelievable.

Who...Loggains? Shanahan quit/asked for his release...

Never liked Shanahan as our OC to begin with ...

You can nitpick over words, 32...........but what is the big difference if he was fired or if he wanted out.

Heck, him wanting out of a toxic situation is more damning than if he was fired.

The reports of meddling are downright disturbing.

I will admit this upfront--------I have no proof, but I think the guy sending down play calling suggestions was not Haslam, but that arrogant jerk---Farmer.

I think that because Haslam wouldn't even have an idea of how to call a play. It's not like you say..............throw it deep. LOL

I think Farmer is a freaking moron! And right now.........he needs to go!

Yeah, having below average WRs run wide open and RBs actually having holes really sucked.

You and I rarely if ever agree, but I agree with you on this. That ought to prove something.

Shanahan did a REMARKABLE job with the little help he was given by Farmer Dumb. He produced seven wins with a backup quarterback, virtually zero talent at wide receiver and two rookies at running back. All while installing a complicated offense that takes a couple years to FULLY impliment. And we lost our Pro Bowl Center AND our Pro Bowl Tight End for much of the season to boot.... Man, I thought Shanahan did more with less than I've seen in a LONG time.

Frankly, I'm rather surprised he isn't at the top of a lot of teams lists as a HC candidate. If I were looking for a young talented HC to build a team he'd be on my short list.

This was a dumbass move, by a front office that is showing it's true colors. Farmers first draft was horrible. Three of his first four picks were head cases. Pettine was supposed to be some defensive genius that would elevate our D to a top five unit.... and we took a SERIOUS step backward from Ray Hortons defense in 2013. Shanahan was a scapegoat for their ineptitude. Tehy probably convinced our clueless owner that he was the problem with Johnny all along and if we made a change, all would be sunny and bright....

We are a FAR worse team today without Shanahan, and I can't conceive of a quality coach wanting to come here to take his place, knowing full well he'll be gone this time next year. More than likely right behind Pettine when we clean house yet again.

Just because you can scheme, doesn't mean you can be a HC..

Think Norv Turner. Great OC. Bad HC.

I'm not saying Kyle can't be a HC.. But it's no coincidence most have him linked to going back to being his dads OC..

I'm not saying the FO is a bunch of angels, but to say Kyle is some clean innocent great coach that we scared away is just silly..

What I read was we "cleaned house" after Shanahan had expressed unhappiness with non football front office people pressuring him to play Johnny.... I did not read hwere he quit....
Cleaning house seems to indicate he was let go....

If he wanted out, the best move would have been BEGGING him to stay. Offering him an assistant HC position or something....

You are right.........we hardly ever agree. LOL.

We do agree this time, however. The guy did more w/less than I would have ever believed. People think we have all this talent, but really, do we?

Gordon was out most of the year.
Cam was too.
Mack missed a big chunk of it.
We had two rookie RBs.
Our WRs were cast offs and undrafted free agents.
Our QB was a guy who was cut by multiple teams and he was far superior to his backups.

That's talent?

And people question the OC? Are you freaking kidding me.

The only think I don't agree w/you on is this.........I don't think the friction was between Shanny and Pet. It was between Shanny and that bozo, Farmer. Read carefully. Read the parts where it talked about a rift between the coaching staff and the FO about who to acquire and who to play and who was calling plays down from the press box.

I think Farmer is a moron!

NO ONE will help Johnny develop until he gets his anal cranial inversion out..

And if Shanny was so great why didn't he get Johnny at least some what prepared..

I will never agree with your argument that Shanny would be good for developing Johnny...

All that comes to mind when you say that is RG and Cousins.... NO thanks

Well, here's hoping we bring in a guy that changes our blocking scheme again. Need to shake up the offensive line of course.... And I really hope we hire a guy that just flat out HATES to run the football. Then we can re-sign Hoyer and have him throw the ball EVERY SINGLE DOWN! What a beautiful sight that would be....

We didn't fire Shanahan. He wanted out.

If I look at it objectively, Cleveland is the last place I'd want to work. Joke of an owner, perennial loser, tough division, bad weather.

I never said that.

What I was implying was that if Manziel struggled learning the play book as a rookie, how is it beneficial to him to have to learn an entirely new playbook.

You can follow that, right?

I agree with you on that too. The more I see of Farmer the less I think of him. His first draft is looking like a disaster. And I'm supposed to get pumped up for our next one? Yes, we have two first round picks.... woo hoo we had two of them last year and neither one of them did anything for us.
It wouldn't surprise me if Farmer was behind this. But Pettine should have balls enough to stand up for his guy.
He must have stood up for O'neil because HE survived and his defense was mediocre at best with a lot more talent than we had on the offensive side(not saying much, we are talent poor all over).
I'm not after Pettine's head yet, but he sure hasn't shown this defensive genius he's supposed to have.

Farmer is another story. If Haslam axed him today I wouldn't shed a tear. Not one. Farmer is proving himself to be a moron. Perhaps worse. He may be another "Meathead" and having one of those on the team is bad enough....

I'm amazed at what Browns fans will witness and then still side with the organization no matter what. It doesn't matter to me who is at fault here. Either the FO people are hiring idiots and fools or they are idiots and fools. Either way, they suck!! So tired of it, it's beginning to look to me like Haslam is inept and a meddler.

Oh and one last thing Vers, you were RIGHT! Bridgewater WAS the guy we should have drafted. Had we done so, started him game one and let him grow in the system? We may not have won 7 games this year, but we'd be in one HELL of a lot better shape going in to NEXT year.... So I have to give credit where it's due. You said all along that Bridgewater should be our choice and he should have been! Peace

Stand up for what?

Shanahan wanted to leave. He wasn't fired.

Yeah but that doesn't matter..

Yes Vers I can follow that.. And I also know Manziel admitted he didn't put forth the effort to learn it..So who's to say he will care to learn the new play book..

Vers if Shanny cared enough to develop Manziel then he should have took him and made him learn.. isn't that the coaches job ?

J/C .....

One name of extreme interest to me is John DeFilippo. He is a YTown native ..... but more importantly, he has created decent QB play on crap teams in Oakland.

Browns OC candidate John DeFilippo compared to Adam Gase by Broncos QB coach | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/browns_oc_candidate_john_defil.html

NEW YORK -- Broncos quarterbacks coach Greg Knapp, who oversaw Browns offensive coordinator candidate John DeFilippo for three years in Oakland, compared the young Raiders quarterbacks coach to another one of his associates the Browns sought to hire this year: Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase.

"Don't let his age (35) fool you,'' Knapp told cleveland.com at the Super Bowl media availability Wednesday. "He's like Adam Gase. He's got great knowledge and a great future ahead of him.''

Former Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who has six years' experience as a coordinator, met with the Browns on Wednesday, and DeFilippo, who's never been a coordinator in the NFL, will interview with them Thursday.

When Knapp was Raiders offensive coordinator in 2007-08, DeFilippo had the unenviable task of coaching troubled No. 1 overall pick JaMarcus Russell, who flopped in the pros. It was later learned that Russell had tested positive for codeine even before the Raiders made him the top pick and gave him a $68 million contract, including $31.5 million guaranteed.

Russell went 0-1 as a rookie and 5-10 in 2008, but Knapp saw tremendous potential in DeFilippo -- a Youngstown native -- right from the start.

"When I was coordinator in Oakland, I said to him, 'You're the quarterback coach, and it's your job to coach me out of the room,' '' recalled Knapp. "He did that in a half a year's time -- and that was seven years ago, when he was really young.''

After the 2008 season, DeFilippo left Oakland to take over as quarterbacks coach of San Jose State, and earned the added duties of offensive coordinator in 2010. In his first year as coordinator, the Spartans jumped 32 places nationally in total offense from the previous year.

When Knapp returned to Oakland as coordinator in 2012, he brought DeFilippo back with him. That year, he coached Carson Palmer for most of the season and then former Buckeye Terrelle Pryor for the final game after Palmer was lost to a rib injury. In 2013, Pryor started nine games and won three after expected starter Matt Flynn flopped.

"He did a great job last year developing Terrelle Pryor during the offseason and he spent a lot of extra time talking to him about mechanics, on the field and in the classroom with him,'' said Knapp. "John has that work ethic that you want as a coach in the NFL, and certainly as a play caller.''

DeFilippo was also forced to start undrafted rookie Matt McGloin for seven games last season after a concussion rendered Pryor ineffective. McGloin went 1-5, but largely because of the Raiders' below-average defense, which finished 28th against the pass. McGloin threw for eight touchdowns, eight interceptions and a 76.1 rating.

"The quarterbacks really like John,'' said Knapp. "He's very personable, and it's important to him that he has a relationship with the players, not just as a coach but a person-to-person relationship.''

Knapp cited DeFilippo's football pedigree as his primary asset. His father, Gene DeFilippo was a former graduate assistant at the University of Tennessee, then coached offense at Youngstown State and Vanderbilt. The elder DeFilippo went on to become athletic director at Boston College, where he spent 15 years before retiring in 2012.

"John's been around football all of his life,'' said Knapp. "He's the son of a coach/AD, and he's a bright, young coach who has great knowledge of the game.''

DeFilippo also played quarterback at James Madison University and interviewed for their head coaching vacancy this offseason.

On the college level, DeFilippo coached quarterbacks at Fordham in 2000. He then went on to Notre Dame as a graduate assistant under Bob Davie in 2001 and Ty Willingham in 2002. He helped lead the Irish to an 8-0 start in 2002, with wins over No. 7 Michigan and No. 11 Florida State, and a Gator Bowl berth.

DeFilippo’s NFL coaching career began with the New York Giants in 2005, when he served as offensive quality-control coach on Tom Coughlin’s staff for two years. He helped the Giants to two postseason appearances, and New York posted a 19-13 regular-season record during his time there.

In 2009, as assistant quarterbacks coach for the Jets, he helped tutor rookie QB Mark Sanchez, who led the Jets to the AFC Championship in his first season as a pro. Browns coach Mike Pettine was Jets defensive coordinator at the time.

"John's worked under a lot of good coaches, including Tom Coughlin,'' said Knapp. "He's been on enough offensive staffs and gameplanned with enough experienced coordinators that he has a good feel what it takes to help develop a gameplan and to execute it.''

Knapp said he has no doubt that DeFilippo is ready to call plays at the pro level.

"I have the utmost confidence in him,'' he said. "He'd take charge in the classroom, and you'd see it on the field as well.''

Yeah Jules. Either way you look at it, there is a problem.

Now, there are plenty of people who are going to defend this FO and owner no matter what, so they will place all the blame on Shanny. They will make up crap like he is pampered or that he was the one who forced Pet to play Manziel, or that his play design and play calling sucked.

I am not saying this to be arrogant or a know it all, and I am sure it will be taken that way by many, but I do know a few things about play design...........and one of the reasons I was so excited about the Browns this year was our play design and play calling. I thought the guy was brilliant. He made more out of nothing that I perhaps have ever witnessed.

Think about it:

His qb was a guy who had been cut by multiple teams and who was mocked by the majority of fans when Banner/Lombardi signed him. It was proof of their ignorance.

He had two rookie RBs carrying the load.

His Pro Bowl TE missed most of the year.

His Pro Bowl WR missed most of the year and came back w/an attitude that was poisonous.

He lost a Pro Bowl center for most of the year. This was a guy who set all the protection schemes, which is way more important than people realize.

His WRs were NOT wanted by other teams.

He had a qb forced on him that was clearly not ready. And when he called plays that were about the only chance to succeed, as in Manziel running, he was ridiculed and called stupid.

Are you kidding me? The guy should have been acknowledged as a great OC. Instead..........we lose him.

I'm getting old, honey. Not sure what to say right now. I know I am emotional, but man, I really feel like quitting this team right now.

Actually most people are upset, but are level headed enough to realize that Kyle probably wasn't going to be here but for a few years anyways.. and if the situation is broke, you might as well split now..

All those people also can see blame on both sides.

The rest of the board is doing the exact opposite of what you said..

What I like about the possibility of a guy like DeFilippo (Who I honestly am not familiar with) is that because he's younger, and has moved around, he wouldn't be tied down to a certain system like most established OCs.

Maybe I'm crazy.. But the idea of bringing in a young up and coming OC, giving him our current playbook, and just letting him call the plays..

No new system.. Just new ideas.

Honestly I really do tend to believe your point... and saying your ignorant for knowing something...well that's ignorant...

I'm not defending any sides on the Shanny leaving... I'm only going by my believes and the circumstances before all this...

My arguments are... Why was Shanny still unemployed at the time we brought him in..

Was he really committed to staying here for a possible turn around...

And can he deal with an organization with out his fathers involvement..

I would also like to argue the fact that ...

Grossi has reported Haslam is only around maybe one day a week...Does this elude to him being a controlling owner... or is there another personal influence in the FO that may be causing a rift in the org..

Rish... can you remember where you read that, and provide a link?

That would be a fascinating read.

I'd love to get more inside scoop on this... might help me to get past yet some more offseason turnover....

Glad to see you're coming back around Clem.

It's the cycle of hope and disappointment that make us Browns fans.

LOL........how appropriate.

Milk Man...now that was funny!!!


Matt Cavanaugh? I'm thinking Bears QB coach...what! After reading the article I remembered. Matt was Ravens OC when they won our...their...first super bowl.

Former Bears' QB coach Matt Cavanaugh is on Cleveland Browns' radar for offensive coordinator

Personally I really dont think it is a bid deal. He had his positives and he had his negatives. His play designs were imaginative and he often found a way to do it with smoke and mirrors. loved it. I thought he was weak when hewanted to prove that he was the smart guy by no longer doing what was working. He wanted to leave, O well dont let the door hit ya.

I heard awhile back the turmoil grew between Farmer and Shannahan over Tate. I thought tate was an overrated distraction. I didnt think there was anyway we would be able to find a quality replacement for Turner last year and yet we got Shannahan. I wont complain about this move until I see it as a negative.

I still say getting rid of the read option was worth the change in OC.

What read option? Sheesh man.

How many times did we run it this year as opposed to Seattle? Did that kill their team?

Come on, Mourg.

Manziel could not manufacture anything by dropping back, and I am one of the few defending the guy. How in the hell are you going to bad-mouth the OC for calling a few read option plays when more successful teams run that play way more than we do?

I hate the play. I hated it with RG3. I think its one of the most idiotic designs in the history of football unless you have a tebow or Kap that cant throw worth a damn anyway.

It has nothing to do with Manziel. Hell I hated the play when he was running it with RG3. Just because a lot of teams are running it doesnt mean it isnt stupid.

I dont see it as bad mouthing the guy. I just dont really care that he is gone. I never expected him to last more a year when he was hired. Pettine will hire someone he has a relationship with and i am fine with that. I just hope the next guy can build can take the O to another level. Dont sweat the small stuff and Kyle shannahan leaving isn't even a big turd, just a nugget.

We completely disagree on this issue. I will leave it at that.

I was doing that before it was cool :smug: