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#915889 01/14/15 07:18 PM
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Offensive line had an excellent start to season, but lack of depth was an issue: Cleveland Browns positional breakdown

BEREA, Ohio – As prospective coordinators look at the positives of the Browns' offense they're not starting at quarterback. Or, probably wide receiver given the uncertainty surrounding Josh Gordon's future.

No, they're starting up front. What was a decent offensive line in 2013 got better with the addition of guard Joel Bitonio, who looks like a future Pro Bowler. Before the injury to All-Pro center Alex Mack the Browns arguably possessed one of the league's top units. Even after losing Mack to a broken leg in Week 5 and the problems they endured in replacing him, ProFootballFocus rated the line the NFL's sixth best in its year-end rankings. A big part of that is due to the line's left side, perennial All Pro Joe Thomas and Bitonio.

The offense was a tale of two halves. It ranked 13th in scoring through nine weeks, but finished 27th overall (18.7 points). The line adapted quickly to the wide-zone blocking scheme preferred by former coordinator Kyle Shanahan and, despite a brutal finish, showed a 21-yard-per-game improvement in rushing. The Browns also were 13th best at protecting the quarterback, allowing 31 sacks.

It will be interesting to see whether the next coordinator sticks with the wide-zone scheme and retains line coach Andy Moeller.

With eyes to 2015, the Browns must upgrade their depth at the position. Although it's tough to replace a player like Mack, the drop off should have been as dramatic. The topic of offensive-line depth doesn't do much for ratings, but it became a major story as the Browns (7-9) faltered down the stretch.

Primary contributors

Joe Thomas: The individual honors continue to pile up. So do the seasons without a playoff appearance. The left tackle earned his eighth trip to the Pro Bowl in as many seasons and was named first-team All Pro for a fifth time. He excelled in the new zone-blocking system, but could not prevent the offense from bottoming out in the final weeks. He finished with a 33.5 ProFootballFocus rating, the third best for tackles behind leader the Eagles' Jason Peters (38.2).

Joel Bitonio: The left guard was easily the Browns best draft pick and among the league's top rookies. The second rounder finished second to Odell Beckham for PFF's Offensive Rookie of the Year award. Bitonio had the fifth-best PFF rating for guards (22.4). The Ravens' Marshal Yanda was the best at 43.4.

Alex Mack: The All Pro center was enjoying perhaps the best start to a season in his career when he broke his leg Oct. 12. Mack's athleticism and quickness were perfectly suited for the wide-zone blocking scheme. The Browns were averaging 146.4 yards per game rushing at the time of his injury and finished with a 108-yard average. Mack will be ready for next season, but it could be his last in Cleveland if he chooses to opt out of his contract.

John Greco: The right guard had another solid season, one which saw him move to center for one game as the club scrambled to replace Mack. Greco had a 15.6 PFF rating.

Mitchell Schwartz: The right tackle had a better season in 2014 despite a rough patch in the middle. Still, it's a position the Browns might want to upgrade in the draft. Schwartz had a PFF rating of 0.5.

Paul McQuistan: Acquired in free agency from the Seahawks, McQuistan did not supply the depth the Browns needed. He started one game at right guard against Jacksonville and played so poorly the club had to move Greco back to the position and find another center. He earned a -6.8 PFF rating for his 121 snaps. It's hard to believe the same player started 14 games or the Super-Bowl Seahawks.

Nick McDonald: The veteran reserve could not hold down the center job, giving way to Ryan Seymour. His -28.3 PFF rating was third worst among all centers.

Ryan Seymour: He served as the Browns' fourth center of the season. The Vanderbilt product earned several starts before injuring his hamstring. He had a PFF rating of -5.1.

Browns top unrestricted free agents: None.

Top potential free agents: G Mike Iupati (49ers), OT Bryan Bulaga (Packers), OT Doug Free (Cowboys).

Top draft prospects: OT Andrus Peat (Stanford), OT Brandon Scherff (Iowa), OT Lael Collins (LSU), G A.J. Cann (South Carolina), C Cameron Erving (Florida State.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/offensive_line_had_an_excellen.html


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We really only need depth on the offensive line. If Mack comes back we should be golden.

Coincidentally I just read a write up on Michael Bowie today. We claimed him from Seattle and he was on IR the entire season. I think he is at least an adequate backup at right tackle.

cfrs15 #915902 01/14/15 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
We really only need depth on the offensive line. If Mack comes back we should be golden.

Coincidentally I just read a write up on Michael Bowie today. We claimed him from Seattle and he was on IR the entire season. I think he is at least an adequate backup at right tackle.


RT is the weak link on the o-line. just have to laugh at people sayng how easy it will be to replace mack last year though. rofl


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If Schwartz if your worst offensive linemen then you are doing pretty good.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
If Schwartz if your worst offensive linemen then you are doing pretty good.


I thought having All Pro HOFers at every single position was a requirement to win the Super Bowl?


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cfrs15 #915906 01/14/15 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
If Schwartz if your worst offensive linemen then you are doing pretty good.


i agree. a very average RT as the weak link. amazing how much better he plays without lava man next to him.


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I said before last season started that we could not afford any injuries on the O-line as we had zero depth. (Damn I just dislocated my shoulder patting myself on the back) We must aquire some much needed depth on the O-line this off season starting with a backup LT


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Do we solve all our backup oline problems if we take Cameron Erving FSU? Not sure he lasts until our 2nd round pick.

He was an all ACC LT then moved to center midseason because of injury and actually played center better than LT.


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Originally Posted By: Jester
Do we solve all our backup oline problems if we take Cameron Erving FSU? Not sure he lasts until our 2nd round pick.

He was an all ACC LT then moved to center midseason because of injury and actually played center better than LT.




Definitely would be a step in the right direction, but our OL depth is so lacking that one person, no matter how versatile,can solve our problems. he can only step in for one person at a time.


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j/c...

1. OL is pretty solid I don't see much that "NEEDS" to be done except shore up the Depth. The only Mock Draft I saw had us taking the kid from IOWA with our #12 pick. That would be a move that upgrades.

2. Center is an easy position to get one who can be serviceable especially if they are able to take over the line calls. It of course does not mean you will get somebody with the Skill and Intelligence of Mack. Our biggest problem is we had bums for depth who just were not serviceable. I would not mind a 3rd, 4th rounder invested in for interior depth to be better skill set in case we lose a center again or ready him in case we lose Mack for good.

3. We can upgrade but outside of improving our Depth on the OL there is really no "NEED" there.

jmho


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Last year I thought Stork and Linsley were the best two centers in the draft, and they were 1/2 in NFL.com's all-rookie team. I think Gallick and Day are the best two in this draft, but I haven't focused on Erving as a center yet. Gallick could be picked in the second or third based on talent, but with how many centers were drafted last year, there's a shot he makes it to us in the 4th. Day is really under the radar and CBS projects him to be undrafted. He's playing this weekend in the NFLPA game if anyone plans on watching/DVRing. Just some info. I do think that Gallick is a better scheme fit for an offense that requires a lot of movement from their OL, but Day can do it. He would excel in a power blocking scheme for sure. I just don't like his cheap shots.

GMdawg #916023 01/15/15 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
I said before last season started that we could not afford any injuries on the O-line as we had zero depth. (Damn I just dislocated my shoulder patting myself on the back) We must aquire some much needed depth on the O-line this off season starting with a backup LT


Totally agree! OL needs one interior and one exterior backup. Two positions I felt would severally downgrade the line if starter hurt was center and LT. I wonder if Bitonio can backup Thomas if needed. I guess we will see this training camp if he gets LT work.

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Totally agree. 2 good back-ups and we'll be set.

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Depth is like special teams. It's one of those things people don't give a lot of credence but is absolutely critical to address if you want win late in a season. We WILL lose an OL at some point, for some period, every season. Work from that assumption forward. We saw a beautiful example in technicolor high def of what it means to have no depth sat a cornerstone position. It was like a switch went off for the entire offense when Mack went down.

I think it's something we address early in the draft and FAgency. We have an adequate to very good starting 5. It's a howling chasm behind them. I don't mind reminded anyone who cares that I called the McQuistan acquisition a total fail before we played a single game and a few countered me saying he was good enough for the Seahawks. Pshh, That guy is a door stop. We have 2 fair-quality backups for all the positions not including center. That must be addressed. If I'm in those draft and FA strategy meetings I'm advocating for the biggest issues outside of the QB as being quality DT and general DL depth, OL depth along with a proven blocker at TE and/or FB. Watch all other facets of the game begin to thrive and appear magically in sinc when the trenches are properly tended to. Do not skimp on the foundation.




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I don't really care much for Greco or Schwartz, I'm all in favor of replacing both of them, but if I had to pick one it's Schwartz. If one of those two struggle, the entire right side of the line seems to completely collapse. Not having Mack KILLED this offense in 2014. I'm with the majority here in saying we have to draft and or sign some quality depth and competition, but I think Schwartz needs replaced ASAP.



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I have to laugh at statements like depth here is all we need. The Oline has been subject for a few years now. They run block like pee wee football players and can't protect the QB very well even with Mack. Yes, depth is important but we need top performers up front. Not to mention JT is going into year 8 and Mack is going to be questionable until we see him in summer camp. We have a huge need to bring in a couple top olinemen going into next season.


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j/c

I'm waiting to see two things. With Mack having the out clause in his contract, if they do not address the C position with someone versatile enough to play G and do not address yet another G position with quality depth at a minimum, I'm going to wonder if this FO gets it at all.

I thought they missed the boat during the FA process last year in not addressing it but I also know you can only accomplish so much in your first year. So while I was a little leery of them ignoring it, I kind of gave them a pass.

Now if they haven't learned their lesson, I'll be extremely concerned.


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Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
I have to laugh at statements like depth here is all we need. The Oline has been subject for a few years now. They run block like pee wee football players and can't protect the QB very well even with Mack. Yes, depth is important but we need top performers up front. Not to mention JT is going into year 8 and Mack is going to be questionable until we see him in summer camp. We have a huge need to bring in a couple top olinemen going into next season.


I guess it could be funny ranked sixth!

I think the Browns been pretty lucky with Mack being the only causality. Pitt brings up a pretty big issue regarding Mack's out clause.

I'm not sure I agree with Pitt on FA. Drafting Bitonio upgraded the OL at the same time keeping coast in check. Drafting another C/G in the second or third I think is a better answer. Better spending money shoring up other areas in more dire straight.

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My point was more that we will need two positions. IF Mack uses the out clause, you will need someone who knows the system ( whatever that system happens to be ) and is ready to step in. Then we need at least one quality depth guy. I believe you can find a quality depth guy on the FA market without a high expenditure and draft your future C.

I just don't see addressing both positions in the draft. It's possible but seems like a more balanced approach to use both the draft and a FA pick up.


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I have to laugh at statements like depth here is all we need.

i don't know how to put this any other way then - you are wrong.

Who is "SUBJECT" on our OL.

Joe Thomas...NO
Bitonio...NO
Mack...NO
Greco...NO
Schwartz...NO
Was Schwartz the 5th best out of 5? Yeah but he was not bad at all.

I mean I'm an OL nut so if there is a Stud there at 12 or 19 and we pull the trigger. Hey I'm all for it.

On another note. OL Progress...us complaining about bums playing depth roles for us. When once upon a time those were our Starters.

QB - Good doesn't have to be great will go far. Also it would help to get into an offense that would last more than one season! If the offense Sucks if the Running game sucks if the passing game sucks. Continuity is a big play in that as well as our QB. We get that going we have a different story.

jmho but OL is pretty solid (starters)


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My thinking is this:

Does a stud OL, bumping either Greco or Schwartz to the bench, make this an appreciably better team? Does that move improve this team in a way that helps them win games?

I don't believe it does. We need a QB. We need weapons on offense, and we need violent pass rushers.

We can play the "what if someone gets hurt?" game all we like, but what if Rodgers gets hurt in Green Bay? Should the Packers give up their whole draft this year and next to draft their choice of QB in case the worst happens?

When a team has as many needs as we do, it makes no sense to try and build depth at a position that does nothing to directly help score points, or prevent the opponent from scoring points, and who, at best, puts another quality player on the bench, with no hope of playing unless someone gets hurt. At least a pass rusher, or a receiver will play, even if they do not start. WE need guys who can contribute at the top of the draft. (or a QB to develop)


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A new starting right tackle or right guard (an upgrade over Greco or Schwartz) CAN help us score points by run blocking better and protecting our quarterback so that HE CAN make plays and help us score points though...

Schwartz has been extremely inconsistent, and if we were to draft a RT at #12 I would not complain one bit.



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Originally Posted By: MrKelso
A new starting right tackle or right guard (an upgrade over Greco or Schwartz) CAN help us score points by run blocking better and protecting our quarterback so that HE CAN make plays and help us score points though...

Schwartz has been extremely inconsistent, and if we were to draft a RT at #12 I would not complain one bit.


The only way I'm onboard with this idea is if the displaced current starter (in this case Schwartz) is a shoe-in to be able to be a swing man that can fill it at a number of positions. If he can do that, then heck yes, pull the trigger.

Otherwise, invest in the position later on in the form of a guy that be a solid backup at multiple positions.


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OL is the least risk in a top 50 pick. So if they want a sure thing and upgrade the OL. As I said I wouldn't blink an eye if we took that kid from IOWA at #12.

Would it make the team better. Of course and its makes the UNIT of five better. Probably Greco or Schwartz ends up being our 6th man and key depth of the OL.

But it won't make a mediocre QB better or what they are not. It You need that QB good enough to take advantage of teams playing the run.

These stud QBs I see in the playoff - except for Wilson. Have 6 in the box a lot. US we get 8 at the low and sometimes more. We need that QB that is the key to the Run Game 5 cannot block 8-9 with 2 more close to the box.

Many Needs? I really don't see Many. What first round studs do we have. Joe Thomas, Mack, Haden, as I said if these guys want a definite hit and a stud is there. We could go OL.

In general depth at OL in the draft is taken 3rd round or later. Weapons. I never said not to draft a WR. Just that there is so much talent out there you don't have to make that impact pick. RB...Crowell is a UDFA. You can get RB anywhere.

The only need I see is at TE.

The key is QB. We can banter around about weapons and this and that. Point blank the answer to the OFFENSE is establishing that legit starter!

Having an OL would help and make us better. Our centers were horrific. Mack back we are a very good OL we get a stud we are a great OL. But without the QB that is a moot point.

Great Defense then we can get away with a "Serviceable QB" Ravens 2000 and Tampa with Gruden proved that can happen.

I wasn't politicking for a pick at OL. Just like ordering a NY Strip steak...You can't go wrong with that when ordering. Or at a Diner. Ordering a Burger w/Fries. Or Breakfast at a Diner. You pretty much can't go wrong. That is the draft and the OL. Burger n Fries wink

I would probably always go for that Freak DE/OLB If he's there at 12. TE? OL?


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Stats and rankings are not best way to evaluate oline talent. The way I see it I'm not wrong. We need more then depth on the oline. You'll see the proof in the pudding if we don't get atleast one more stud up front in 2015.

Pretty snarky to just call people wrong. smile That was just a jab back joke hope u know. smile


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Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
I have to laugh at statements like depth here is all we need. The Oline has been subject for a few years now. They run block like pee wee football players and can't protect the QB very well even with Mack. Yes, depth is important but we need top performers up front. Not to mention JT is going into year 8 and Mack is going to be questionable until we see him in summer camp. We have a huge need to bring in a couple top olinemen going into next season.


Of course it has been a subject. It represents over 20% of a team's starters. It's a subject for every team, every year.

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I just thought it was crazy, that because of a freak injury, people reacted as if we should draft MUTIPLE OL this year..

If you wanna draft another G/C in the 3rd or 4th round.. Ok..

You can also get depth/starters at G in FA.

To say we NEED to draft an OL in the first round this year is just silly..


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Agreed, completely.

We get Mack back healthy and ready to roll. After that, we just need a solid 6th man, and an answer at QB.

When Hoyer was in his stride early in the season - prior to Mack going down and the OLine going through a few weeks of adjustments - that OLine was solid and stable. We made things happen.

We don't need to overhaul the thing, it just needs to get healthy and maybe have a spare part added.


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and, I would contend that Bowie (if back to health) is likely to at least be an acceptable backup OT (if not contend to start at RT).

so, that means we just need to find an acceptable backup OG/C hybrid guy either through the draft or FA. FA will be tough though because few will want to come to a team with an OL so entrenched.


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You need to be " extremely concerned "

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I seem to remember getting beat-up for harping on us not signing offensive linemen during last year's FA period. There were plenty available and we ignored them for the most part.

I remember it as I was "whining."

LOL

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Please tell me what Pro Bowl Center we could of signed that would of came here to sit on the bench in case Mack got injured.


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Most of the guys you wanted were starters. Our five starters going into the season were fine.

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What? Where did I mention a Pro Bowl Center?

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Yes, you are right about that.

However, had we signed one of them, Schwartz would have been our depth. Had we signed another, we would not have been forced to draft Bitonio.

Now, I agree that the second part of that can viewed as both a positive and a negative. I understand many might think that getting Bitonio is the best thing since sliced bread. I agree that he is a good player.

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The point is that we signed guys for depth, they were just crap. If Mack doesn't go down no one is complaining about offensive line right now.

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We just disagree on our points and I am okay w/that.

My point is that we could have easily upgraded the OL by signing one of the quality FAs that were available. Not having decent backups is like going through life w/out insurance.

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The difficulty is in convincing someone of starter quality to come here and potentially be a backup...and then no matter what, you're paying a backup starter money.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Mar 2013
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V
Joined: Mar 2013
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True, but Schwartz should be a backup and this was before we drafted Bitonio and we needed a starting guard.

Not saying I am certainly right. Just commenting that I believe that we should have pursued one of those free agents.

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The Bitonio argument is the right one to make. Schwartz is a starter in this league.

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