DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns parting ways with OC Kyle Shanahan and QB coach Dowell Loggains

no clue. he is hands down the best OC we have ever had. our offensive line went from being ok in run blocking and great in pass protection to being great in BOTH pre-mack injury.

we had two 5'8 WR, a washed up scrub and a punt returner looking like pro bowlers out there.

we had two rookie RB's destroying teams. 16 rushing TD's? ridiculous.

if shanny left because the front office is a train wreck. chances are, the front office is a train wreck.

No QB. No stability.

It's really that simple.

Joe Thomas says the same generic thing every time someone is fired. Unfortunately he has a lot of practice.



That was after Pat Shurmur.

Classic.

I'm a child of the 60s at heart, bro.

Seriously, loved your PM and I could write a book in response. You are a smart guy, Clem. You will always have my respect and I will always have your back.

I think that most people are just trying to put together the pieces of what appears to be a fairly confusing situation. Much like when Haslam fired both Banner and Lombardi, seemingly out of a clear blue sky, reports of a lack of continuity surfaced with Shanahan. It is obvious that something happened with regards to Shanahan on this staff. There are reports that the Browns were already hard at work looking for his replacement even before Shanahan asked his way out. Is that because they were thinking he would ask out, or because they were not sure that he fit the team concept that Pettine is trying to build? Who knows? Any time a coach or front office executive is replaced, there will be questions. Rumors will comes out. Reporters will print things they heard. Who knows what is the actual story?

Logical post.

All I know is this...........I thought Shanny was the best coach on the staff and it wasn't close. I thought he was the best coach I have seen since our rebirth, and you probably remember how strongly I defended Arians back in the day. I still like Bruce, but Shanny's play design was spectacular.

No matter who is to blame.............it's a loss when you lose such a great offensive mind. People can rail all they want, but our talent level sucked.

--We lost a Pro Bowler in Gordon for almost the entire year.
--We lost a Pro Bowl TE for most of the year.
---We lost a Pro Bowl center for most of the year.
--We played w/a qb who was cut by several teams and two qbs who were far worse than he was.
--We three rookie backs in the backfield and two of them were undrafted.
--We were in the first year of a brand new system.
--Our FO insisted on a QB change.

And y'all expected positive results?

I don't dispute any of that.

You'll recall that I have agreed with you about Shanahan's creativity. I think that he is an extremely talented coach, as far as play design. He had receivers wide open on most plays.

I don't remember if you were around here when Arians was dumped, but I really wanted him to stay, and took a ton of abuse over that. I also really, really wanted him for our head coach when we hired Chud. I did think that Chud was a solid 2nd option, but my 1st choice all along was Arians. I wonder how things would have been different if we would have hired him.

Vers, I wish Kyle stayed. I agree level of play was good early in the season. Shucks, we disagree twice...a full moon!!!

What I didn't like about his game is the second half of the season. Talent digress and everything caved. We saw better where the back of the roster stepped up. Offense seem ill prepare once starters falter. If you look at McCoy when Daboll was OC, team came out prepared.

We're good on this one.

I wasn't dogging you, dawg. Sometimes, I click on one post to respond to the masses.

My bad.

Not a problem.

Shanahan turned down the opportunity to interview with the 49ers. This makes me think he has a job lined up. There are rumors of him going to Chicago and Atlanta (also Baltimore if Kubiak gets the Denver job).

Baltimore would make a ton of sense considering it would allow the Ravens to keep continuity there.

It appears that he should be considered the front-runner.

Ravens offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak will meet with Broncos : Fantasy News
http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasy...ew-with-broncos

Ravens offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak will meet with the Broncos about their coaching vacancy, according to CBSSports.com NFL Insider Jason La Canfora. He is expected to interview this weekend. ESPN reports the interview will be Sunday.

La Canfora reports Kubiak is "far and away" general manager John Elway's top choice for the coaching vacancy. Kubiak was Elway's backup quarterback in Denver from 1983-91.

Kubiak just finished his first season with the Ravens after spending the previous eight seasons as the Texans coach. Kubiak went 61-64 with the Texans, leading them to playoff appearances in 2011 and 2012.

wow if they go to Denver together... they might be able to make something out of that QB there... whats his name Payton something or another.

I know he has shown some promise in the past...

Peyton Manning wanted to play for Houston when he was a free agent and Kubiak turned him down. Kubiak and Shanahan run a system that Manning doesn't really fit in (Baltimore had the least amount of snaps out of the shotgun in the NFL). It will be interesting to see what happens there.

that's right... hope his leg heals I want to see him run the read option...

I did not know that... guess if he goes there it marks the end of the manning era?

A couple of comments:

--What is up w/these read option jokes? Sheesh, they don't even make sense.

--Peyton could play in Shanny's system. That isn't even a debate.

--If Shanny goes to Baltimore......I yi yi yi.

--He turned down SF? What?

--I hope he goes to Denver rather than Baltimore. I actually prefer he goes to Atlanta so we only have to face him once every four years.

--This was on another thread, but someone mentioned Shanny being a HC. I don't think that he would do well in that position. He's a brilliant OC. That is where he needs to stay.

Agreed.

(At least for now.)

Personally, I think he's too young, and hasn't had enough time or experience in the league to make a successful jump to that position.

He's obviously got a keen mind for X's & O's, and can place O personnel in positions to dominate games..... let's face it- he did it in CLE with a cobbled-together WR corps, 2 rookie RB's and a journeyman QB taking all the snaps.

The intellect is certainly not lacking, that's for sure.

BUT: you and I both know that coaching is more than just intellect. It also requires "People Skills"... and a willingness to 'work your plan,' while also being able to 'work people.'

(...you KNOW what I'm REALLY talking about- don't you? -hehehe...)

_______________


In the history of the entire NFL, there have only been a handful of "Greats" who have been able to do the whole "my way or the highway" thing:

Halas.
Paul Brown.
Lombardi.
Shula.
[inset another couple names here]

These guys not only knew how to execute X's & O's... they also knew how to motivate and lead a squadron of MEN. To date, Kyle hasn't demonstrated those 'leadership intangibles.' That's not to say he WON'T develop them over time... and become a great head coach.

What I'm saying is this: He still has a steep learning curve (...and a lot more maturing to navigate) before he becomes 'legitimate HC material.'

------------

As a Browns fan, I don't want to face him as some other team's OC any time soon. Kid is the real deal. Whether he ever becomes HC material is a question that's still waaaay off in the future, as far as I'm concerned.

He's not ready for the big chair.


(Gawd.... PLEEZE let him go to the NFC......)

Cleveland Browns' coaching searches are the epitome of "process" -- Bud Shaw's Sports Spin

By Bud Shaw, Northeast Ohio Media Group
Follow on Twitter
on January 16, 2015 at 4:31 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio – The latest coaching search in Berea is not necessarily a soap opera. That's unfair. That suggests high drama. Also some action.

It's more like a mini-series.

Those actually have endings (eventually), sometimes even happy ones. But in sheer length they suggest you get your popcorn and put your feet up.

From where we sit in mid-January, we see head coaching vacancies filling up. Coordinators are on the scent of new blood.

The Browns? The Browns are either unmatched at keeping things secretive, or their searches are simply more ... let's call them "complicated." Now, which do you think it is?

The easy road: Kyle Shanahan leaves for a head coaching job. The next bright coordinator on the cusp of a vertical move (Adam Gase?) is suddenly displaced, sees the Browns as a launching pad, and can't wait to get here to coach Johnny Manziel coming off a promising rookie season.

Why is it never like that?

The reality: Shanahan is allowed to leave under muddy circumstances and could even end up at division rival Baltimore. The roster offers undrafted Connor Shaw and an overmatched Manziel at quarterback, and troubled Josh Gordon as the go-to receiver.

Beyond that, there's the perception (if not more) of coaching staff/front office friction and an owner known for having a twitchy trigger finger.

Jimmy Haslam claimed due diligence and dismissed accusations of dysfunction in the search that brought Mike Pettine to town a year ago. Haslam knew it was a hard sell. But at least the process landed a coach who looks the part.

A year later, Pettine is the best thing the Browns have going for them in attracting a replacement for Shanahan. That speaks well of him.

Pettine is a delegator. He leaned on his offensive coaches. He gave Shanahan room on Sundays when some head coaches can't help themselves and overrule play calls. He may have given Shanahan too much room at times.

But I can't think of a better selling point for the Browns. And that's a problem. Beyond Pettine, what else is there?

The Browns requested permission from Dallas to interview Bill Callahan and Scott Linehan. Callahan instead took the offensive line job in Washington, signing a three-year deal, according to ESPN. Linehan signed up long-term to remain in Dallas.

The Browns did interview Marc Trestman, according to reports. They also interviewed Chan Gailey, who has been out of the league the past two seasons. Raiders quarterback coach John DeFlilippo is considered a strong candidate. Greg Roman, an early target, joined Rex Ryan in Buffalo.

If anything deserved the overused label "process" in Berea, it's the search for head coaches and coordinators.

You can tell yourself that the Shanahans are the real soap opera stars here. That Kyle Shanahan's departure is more a reflection on him than it is on the Browns. Drama followed them in Washington, after all. Mike Shanahan hasn't landed anywhere as a head coach or team president. Kyle is still on the job market.

But for some of the same reasons Shanahan departed Berea, the Browns' job isn't the easiest sell going. Sound familiar? If you're keeping track, the next offensive coordinator would be the sixth in six years.

And if you're not, that's totally understandable. link

Things are just peachy in Cleveland.

Shanahan forced the read option on Manziel. He did not run the read option in college.

Sounds like Pettine is being called out a bit for not overruling the plays...flash forward to next seasons, will he now feel like he has to begin to monitor every play and not let his OC have full reign? If so, that seems like the beginning of the end for Pettine and his new OC and makes the new OC position a little 'muddy'... He was a first year NFL coach so letting Shanahan make the calls makes perfect sense - it is why you have experienced OC and QB Coach.

I think what Pettine needs to do, and he may have, is give guidance on the strategy of the call rather than overruling individual plays.

Example, at the end of the half, we have the ball at the 25 yard line with 30 seconds remaining. He needs to be the one deciding on whether we try to drive and score vs running plays to milk the clock down.

How many read option plays did we run? Man!

As terrible as JM was at throwing it, I actually thought we should have ran more of the read option. Did you ever once have a good feeling watching JM drop back?

Other than the Buffalo game, no.

Well looks like shanny plans to go be the OC for Baltimore now ... just really don't like this punk.

This is a good thing! Our DC and D have a full year of defending his O! They know every look! LOL I'm happy he is going there. I think he is good, but right now our D knows his O very well.

It's a business.

Joe Flacco and established stability, or Johnny Manziel and The Last Stooge Standing?

If was the Browns OC, and I thought I could land a lateral gig elsewhere, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

No sense putting your name on a bad product if you can help it.

Conversely, being responsible for the turnaround to a respectable "product" only serves to enhance a resume...

When we were 7-4, all the talk was about how we were gonna lose Shanny to a HC job and how "hopefully" he'd be here at least two years..

I think getting out of here cause it's a "shitty" job is a losers mentality..

Come here. Be the guy that wins. And you can have any job you want..

Hnhu

Be the guy that wins...and who in the last decade has done that here? At least anyone we have retained. I agree but that attitude has to to emanate to each and every player and here in Cleveland it just hasn't worked that way. Would love nothing more. Belichek was here don't forget.

With little Johnny's attitude and Gordon's issues, nobody really knows what this team will be come August.

That's a tall order with so many uncertainties. Be the guy that wins....that would be great!!!

If you believe it's within your abilities, certainly.

But if I'm an OC, and I'm looking at Johnny Manziel and the crew that drafted him in the first round, I'm gone if I can convince them to let me out of my deal.

Haslam and Manziel is not a boss and QB I'd be willing to stake my name on as far as a reclamation project.

Don't bet on losers.

I get your hate for Manziel and the whopping 5 quarters he played this season. Where is the hate on Hoyer for sucking as bad as he did? This season was on him, not Manziel.

Looks like Shanny to the ATL.

Have they announced Quinn yet?

Hiring your OC before your HC is weird.

Apparently they are a package deal.