DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... American Sniper

You've created a dichotomy where there is none. There is no difference between war time Chris Kyle and at home Chris Kyle. Just like there is no difference between me at work and me at home. This is a piece of propaganda. If you buy into that propaganda, you will love it. That's the point of propaganda. If you don't buy into the propaganda, then you will easily point out the flaws in it.

Yes, sadly it has certainly turned out that way. Didn't need too but elections needed to be won you know.

I for one am grateful for his service and grateful for friends of mine who came home in one piece thanks to soldiers like him.

exactly, because we had no business being their in the first place.

i understand this thread is about the movie, but i just want people to understand something.

Suddam, as terrible as he was as a person, we absolutely needed to run that country.

i hated him, but at the end of the day, he was the main reason iraqi terrorism was limited to the middle east for the most part.

i hate saying this about...KINDA my own middle eastern heritage, but those guys need to be ruled with an iron fist. democracy doesn't work in countries like iraq, afghan, syria etc. it can work in Iran and Turkey, but not those other countries.

there's no such thing as winning hearts and minds over there. you get a few iraqis who like the western style of living, but for the most part? it takes a dictator to run countries like that.

my opinion.

excellent point Swish... one I never considered.

So in effect we helped create the vacuum that allowed ISIS to rise up..notice I said HELPED, not solely responsible as there are just too many players

You do realize that ISIS started out in Syria right? That in order to prevent ISIS from forming, not only would we have had to leave a substantial force in Iraq, but we would also have to have invaded Syria as well?

I think you honestly believe that Iraq was some strategic strong point. It wasn't. We conquered the government right away. That's not who the war ended up being against. It was all of the divided factions that have existed there for centuries. The Sunni, Shia and Bathists.

There will always be a fight among these factions. Swish covered it nicely. We needed Sadaam to control the place.

But being grateful does not mean condoning actions. I thought we've been over this.

You do remember who was President when Syria fell and Egypt for that matter don't you?

If we had left a small force in Iraq, and of course our leader was willing to use them, ISIS would never have crossed into Iraq. If we left Assad alone in Syria, instead of arming the rebels against him, ISIS would probably not exist at all.

One international flub after another for your guy has brought us to today, where the Western World is in flames as ISIS threatens us all.

sigh.,... 40 my man, no.

ISIS was going to happen bro. the ONLY way that wasn't going to happen was a full occupation of iraq...for the rest of eternity.

look at history bro. iraq has been conquered by almost every major regime since recorded history. Khan, Romans, Turks, ottomans, etc.

and now us. and guess what has changed? absolutely nothing.

why do you think the russia said screw it, and vacated afghan?

you know what insanity is, right?

Sigh...Swish cough and puke, no.

Even you admit Iraq ran quietly under the strong hand of a Dictator. We could have been friendly but made sure Iraq's government was a good one instead of what we did, leave a boob in charge who's military wouldn't even fight for him.

Its all about LEADERSHIP my man, of which we have none.

you don't fix what isn't broken.

Do you just repeat things you hear on the TV or the radio?

It doesn't sound like you even know who ISIS is.

That was insightful.

Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. “Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!”

One sheep spoke up, saying “It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery.” The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried “Begone! We are not food!” and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out “Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!”

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. “But we are your brethren!” they cried, “We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!”

“Baaaaaaaddd!”, cried the flock,”the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!”. So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep’s weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, “Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!”.

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying “It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!”. But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of “Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!”.

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying “Baaaaddd! Bad things!”.

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep’s totems and signs, and said, “Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!”. And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, “See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!”. But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, “Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!”. The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another’s teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!

By Charles Riggs, (C) 1997

Bumping...

I was able to catch this in a theater tonight. I'm glad I watched it.

I've caught up a bit on the flaws of the individual, and read a bit on the "controversy" of the film. Every individual in the world exists with flaws. Some are minor whereas others are glaring. It's unfortunate Chris made up these claims from what he "did" stateside. It's also unfortunate that many miss the point of the movie, too. Eastwood made a statement which stated this film was as big of an anti-war film you can get. I think he's got a point, honestly.

I'm quite left on the political spectrum. I'm amazed this film remained as objective as it was. No glorifying, yet no dragging or blaring "anti-war" theme. In the end, everything comes together to show the result of such conflicts.

This probably sits somewhere among 2001: A Space Odyssey, The LOTR series, and Into The Wild as one of my favorite films of all time.

Great man-- Great movie. We could use a few more Chris Kyles in this country and a few less Michael Moores. Maybe even a few less PDR's and Chs's.

Maybe if M.Moore was in his beloved Cuba and was facing a fireing squad,death squad,or prison death camps he probably wouldn't mind if a bunch of American snipers saved his fat ,rich America hating arse

Actually I was resonding to Dawg Duty,s post

Michael Moore hasn't been relevant in over a decade, American Sniper is a fantastic film, and by the measure of his own words, Chris Kyle comes across as insane (which is perfectly understandable given his profession).

The hate is too real.

I never found Chris Kyle anywhere near insane, and I saw a great many interviews with him and got to see him answer in his own words.

It is outside the norm for people to have a job to kill other people. He made it easier for himself by considering the enemy to be savages. Most soldiers throughout time have done the same thing. He more considered the lives he saved by his actions, instead of the people he killed. He had a crap job but was very good at it. I'm quite glad he was there.

Just watched the movie for the first time last night.

Great movie, great portrayal, great job by Eastwood bringing across the cost to our veterans in the ways that cannot be seen.


For anyone critical of Kyle as a man, or his personality -- I'll just say that you don't make it in his profession at that level without having that type of personality. The physical aspects of their training is not what makes or breaks a man in BUDs, you can get rolled back into a later class if you're just struggling a little with the physical side. It's the mental side that is the everything.