For what it's worth, Mark Schlareth said each team uses it's own balls during the game. Which makes sense as I've heard of quarterbacks who like certain things more than others like more pronounced laces or whatnot...
And Chris Mortensen said on SVP&Russillo that the home team provides 35 (or maybe 36) balls to the refs and they check them before giving them to the ball crew. A subset are held aside for the kicking game, which are normally the higher pressured ones.
The whole thing started when DQ intercepted a Brady pass, thought it was light and started telling the refs and his coaching staff. Assuming it was indeed light, how can you prove it was intentional? And if it was intentional, how did it get past the refs AND how would the Pats know they would get it on that series and not the Coltst?
Mort said balls get taken out of circulation every so often in a game for various reasons. It's not a big deal.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Updated: January 21, 2015, 12:08 AM ET By Chris Mortensen | ESPN.com
11 Of 12 Pats' Footballs Under-Inflated
The New England Patriots had 11 of their 12 allotted game footballs under-inflated by 2 pounds of air (PSI) less than what's required by NFL regulations, according to league sources either involved or familiar with the investigation of Sunday's AFC championship game when the Patriots beat the Colts 45-7 to advance to their sixth Super Bowl.
Assuming the initial inspection was done correctly and weather wasn't a factor, the Patriots should be punished for deflating footballs, writes Mike Reiss. Story
"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.
Troy Vincent, the league's senior executive vice president of football operations, told ProFootballTalk.com earlier Tuesday that the NFL expected to wrap up its investigation in "two or three days."
Yet to be determined is what, if any, penalties may be imposed upon Patriots. One source described the league as "disappointed ... angry ... distraught," after spending considerable time on the findings earlier Tuesday.
The Patriots had 11 of their 12 game footballs under-inflated by 2 pounds of air less than what's required by NFL regulations during the AFC championship game against the Colts, according to league sources.
Part of the investigation that still needs further vetting is how the 11 footballs became under-inflated. The game balls provided to each team for preparation were required to be inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson two hours and 15 minutes before kickoff before they were returned to each team.
No alteration of footballs is allowed once they are approved, under league rules and regulations.
The balls are required be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces.
"We have been in complete cooperation with the league and will continue to do so," said Patriots spokesman Stacey James.
There is a difference between light and under inflated.
Technically speaking there can be a difference of 3.67 percent from the min to max air pressure of 12.5 (27.2 psia) to 13.5 (28.2 psia) psi, assuming that NE is playing at sea level (14.7 psia).
However, there is an 8 percent difference from filling a ball at room temperature (72F or 532K) and playing outside at 32F (492K)
I am not surprised that someone has not picked up on this. Fill a ball up in a warm room, to 12.5 psi, take it outside in the cold and the pressure will drop. Probably slightly less than the above stated values because the volume of the football will reduce slightly as the temperature decreases.
There is a difference between light and under inflated.
Technically speaking there can be a difference of 3.67 percent from the min to max air pressure of 12.5 (27.2 psia) to 13.5 (28.2 psia) psi, assuming that NE is playing at sea level (14.7 psia).
However, there is an 8 percent difference from filling a ball at room temperature (72F or 532K) and playing outside at 32F (492K)
I am not surprised that someone has not picked up on this. Fill a ball up in a warm room, to 12.5 psi, take it outside in the cold and the pressure will drop. Probably slightly less than the above stated values because the volume of the football will reduce slightly as the temperature decreases.
Ideal gas laws are pretty well understood.
'Report: Patriots used 11 under-inflated footballs'
The Patriots used 11 footballs in the AFC Championship Game that were deemed to be deflated by the NFL's standards, according to a report from ESPN.
The footballs were under-inflated by two pounds each, Chris Mortensen reported late on Tuesday night. By league rule, footballs are required to be inflated between 12.5 to 13.5 pounds per square inch and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces.
As of 11 p.m. on Tuesday, the NFL had not released a statement. Mortensen tweeted that the Patriots will continue to cooperate with the investigation.
Science and gas laws. I guess by some miracle happened only on the Pats side of the field. Cause all the balls from the Colts passed.
No way I think this made a difference. It was not noticeable by touch as the referees handled and even held and wiped all the balls all day to notice a difference.
Possibly Brady likes it at the lower end of the Minimum/Maximum and all but one ball the deflation was just a tad too much? Innocence, premeditated? Going to tough to prove.
At the end I think the Pats will be docked a draft pick from round one to round 3 pending on how guilty they are PROVEN to be.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
it wouldn't had made a difference, but they need to be punished whether it was 45-7 or 21-20.
that simply can not, and SHOULD not be tolerated.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
it wouldn't had made a difference, but they need to be punished whether it was 45-7 or 21-20.
that simply can not, and SHOULD not be tolerated.
considering that it is a rule, I agree.
however, I hope that it brings to light how silly the rule is in itself.
I fully believe that each team should be able to choose however inflated they want their 12 balls to be. as long as the balls are standard issue NFL footballs (no difference in texture), the QB and WRs from each team should have it where they like it.
some QBs like it over-inflated (Rodgers) and some like them under-inflated (Brady - obviously).
it wouldn't had made a difference, but they need to be punished whether it was 45-7 or 21-20.
that simply can not, and SHOULD not be tolerated.
considering that it is a rule, I agree.
however, I hope that it brings to light how silly the rule is in itself.
I fully believe that each team should be able to choose however inflated they want their 12 balls to be. as long as the balls are standard issue NFL footballs (no difference in texture), the QB and WRs from each team should have it where they like it.
some QBs like it over-inflated (Rodgers) and some like them under-inflated (Brady - obviously).
Exactly.
OR, the league hires an offical ball crew for each game to check each ball right before it goes into play. Wipe it down, check the pressure, and toss it in. And enforce the same balls on the kickers too.
Either get them all the same or let the players do what they want. It's a billion dollar business, you can afford a few extra people on the sidelines if needed.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
it wouldn't had made a difference, but they need to be punished whether it was 45-7 or 21-20.
that simply can not, and SHOULD not be tolerated.
considering that it is a rule, I agree.
however, I hope that it brings to light how silly the rule is in itself.
I fully believe that each team should be able to choose however inflated they want their 12 balls to be. as long as the balls are standard issue NFL footballs (no difference in texture), the QB and WRs from each team should have it where they like it.
some QBs like it over-inflated (Rodgers) and some like them under-inflated (Brady - obviously).
So, you want to set some standards in regards to the ball, but not have standards in regard to the ball?
Why not just allow different balls? Some QB's might prefer something a little grippier, some might prefer a slicker ball, or less pronounced laces.
They set a standard so that both teams are playing with the same ball. Afterall, the goal is to get THE BALL across the goalline, so it is the one piece of equipment that players use that really, really, really needs to be completely standardized - otherwise it is no longer a competition about who can move that ball the best.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Isn't this recent PPE? Not too long ago weren't all balls submitted by the Refs. Teams complained about how new and slippery they were so just recently they allow them to work the balls in a bit and decided on this Air thing?
I can't imagine it to be a big deal as in cheat when the Refs cannot notice it throughout all that handling. Somebody however on the Colts sidelines noticed that it felt light (after DQs INT) to start all this.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Report: Colts told NFL of inflation concerns after November game vs. Pats
January 21, 2015, 12:16 PM EST
One of the key moments of “Inflationgate” came when Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson intercepted Patriots quarterback Tom Brady in the second quarter of Sunday’s AFC title game in Foxborough. Per multiple reports, the ball was deemed to feel a little light, and from there, the NFL got involved.
However, a published report Wednesday says the Colts’ suspicions about the inflation of New England’s footballs date back at least to the regular season matchup with New England on November 16.
And again, an interception — two of them, actually — was the catalyst.
According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the Colts notified the NFL about potential under-inflation after safety Mike Adams picked off Brady twice in New England’s 42-20 victory.
In both cases, ESPN reported, Adams took the ball to the sideline as a memento, then gave it to the team’s equipment staff.
It was then, ESPN said, that the inflation of the footballs came into question.
As with the playoff matchup between the clubs, the Patriots were the far superior team in the November meeting. Moreover, the only three turnovers forced by the Colts in these two games came on the interceptions of footballs that purportedly did not feel right.
Nevertheless, we now have another data point regarding the Colts’ curiosity about the Patriots’ footballs. link
they need to put Indy in the SB regardless of the score. They should also fined Pat's their first round draft pick they should suspend Belicheck for a year. finally they should fine NE 500,000.00 for multiple cheating offenses
That would straighten out the cheating in the NFL real quick.
Although the commissioner has the power to replay the game or simply declare Indianapolis the AFC representative, I don't think this would be the correct solution.
Clearly, the Patriots (specifically Bill Belicheat) are thumbing their noses at the NFL. This is not their first offense. The NFL needs to send a strong message that these type of actions will NOT be tolerated.
Belicheat needs to be suspended for the Super Bowl and next season. The Patriots need to be fined $1M. They also need to forfeit their ENTIRE draft next season.
None of this will happen and they will probably get the $25K penalty as stipulated by rule. But it would send a CLEAR message to these cheaters that enough is enough.
I hope Seattle kicks the crap out of these losers. And good.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
... they will probably get the $25K penalty as stipulated by rule.
Haha, then why are you and others suggesting Bill be suspended for the SB and all of next year, replace the Pats the Colts in the SB, fine them $1m, and/or take away all their draft picks?
The NFL just got in trouble for not suspending Ray Rice long enough because they didn't have a rule in place that would allow them to. And when they finally revised the rule, they re-suspended him after the tape came out and then the whole thing blew up in their face. As bad as Ray Rice looked, the NFL somehow looked worse (or at least incredibly incompetent).
Plus, since this has come out, lots of former and current QBs have come out to say they would have their team over or under inflate the balls a bit to meet their preference. So yeah, let's suggest punishments that are insanely over the line and against the rules and then berate the NFL for going easy on them when they can't punish them more than a tiny fine anyway.
Teams and players have been doing this forever and it's time the NFL step in and take control to prevent them in the future. But come on, you want them to replace the Pats for the SB?!
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
j/c... 1. I heard that the Ravens tipped off the Colts. Everthing flying right now...lol
2. Personally I don't think this is cheating. I think its sort of funny that Aaron Rodgers inflates his game balls to be over the RULED LIMIT. All ignore this fact. That btw was breaking the rules...or should we say that Green Bay has Cheated their way also?
3. Look they get the ball the QBs have a lot to do with the feel of the ball. They can scruff them up a bit. Wipe any newness off that makes it a little slippery. I'm sure the equipment manager goes through this during the year.
They get balls inflated to the max...Brady tells his equipment guy to take a little out. So they go ffft Brady tries it and says a little more...ffft....Ahhh perfect. It isn't that noticeable - Refs, Adams, nor DQ were alarmed to it. They were taken as souvenirs and when handed to the Equipment managers, for safe keeping., who make it their lives for the little equipment things, find out about it.
I don't think there was an IOTA of premeditated Cheat here. I think pre game they always take a little air out of the ball without measuring the PSI or whatever they go by. Maybe the NFL should provide special devices that have a red line when they take air out. So the can get right to that minimum. It was probably thought of no big deal and not a cheat. It wasn't to any large extreme where the refs would notice.
My personal experience is we had a game and we miss placed the game ball and refs asked for a ball we threw out a practice ball (all NFL issued balls) and after one play the refs threw it back stating we needed to put more air in it or get a different ball. My point is in the amateur environment with yes 6 Refs playing by NFL rules - noticed and threw a ball out. Mind you this wasn't a big time deflated ball. You could squeeze it easily enough. So these refs at the Pats game just didn't notice it to any degree where "CHEATING" can be used.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
The thing I find most amazing about all of this: The footballs in are not standardized-- teams provides the footballs for their own offenses. I would expect that in pee wee football but not the NFL.
I find that so bizarre that the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that they care more about catering quarterbacks/favoring offenses than they do potential issues with the integrity of the game, such as this one. Does anybody have any other ideas why the rules are what they are?
I find that so bizarre that the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that they care more about catering quarterbacks/favoring offenses than they do potential issues with the integrity of the game, such as this one. Does anybody have any other ideas why the rules are what they are?
I think it's been a known non-issue for years, if not decades. A super successful team that was caught cheating before is the reason this is front page news. Had the Jags done it, their own beat reporters wouldn't have mentioned it on their monday wrap up game summary.
Heck, it's been known for years the kickers use different footballs than the ones used for regular gameplay. They're harder and I think smoother. Nobody has cared about that before.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
I am not defending or criticizing the Patriots here. There hasn't been enough info released to really know what their role in this was. Did they just give the refs underinflated footballs, or did they tamper with them after the fact, violating a clear rule. There's a big difference.
My point is that it's silly for each team to provide its own footballs for their own offenses to use. When the story first broke, several comments were along the lines of, "well everybody is using the same football, so if it is an advantage for one team"..... but that's not the case. The balls the Pats provide were only used by the Pats offense. That is a seriously screwed up system that invites tampering and abuse. It is like the pitcher bringing out his own baseballs to pitch with; what could possibly go wrong there?
The "K" balls are indeed different, and while I question whether separate balls need to be used in the kicking game, as I understand it, those balls are controlled exclusively by NFL employees. As all of them should be.
I don't think there was an IOTA of premeditated Cheat here.
NE gives the refs their balls, they are checked two hours before the game..
NE then gets the balls back, and deflates them to their liking, which happens to be lower than the allotted PSI.
How is that not premeditated?
Is that why they won? No I don't think so.. Did that help them play better? I would assume, why else would they do it?
Rules are not made to be broken. People that purposely break rules again and again should be punished harsher. Because unless they are, they will continue to break them.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
I think deflating the footballs is wrong, just as I felt the George Brett pine tar incident was wrong. If you don't like the rules, get them changed...don't whine when you get caught breaking them. Brett's temper tantrum was classic.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I saw most if not all of Belichick's press conference, and also part of Tom Brady's.
When the press started asking Bill questions is when it gets interesting. Bilichick seemed nervous, uncomfortable... (Busted!) His body language told me he wanted to be gone but quick. "I have no explanation for what happened." "I told you everything I know."
I'd have to say Belichick's a big liar.
Tom Brady, however, seemed together and poised. Professional. Believable, even. I thought to myself, "Either Tom's a great liar or he's being honest." He certainly seemed like he was telling the truth.
This little news story has turned into a great big news story, at least in the world of sports.
The NFL was going to eject Marshawn Lynch from the NFC Title game if he wore Gold Shoes..
But purposely go against the rules? A fine will do..
Breaking the rules doesn't cost the NFL money ...... but fail to wear properly licensed equipment ..... that gets expensive.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
For more than a decade, Tom Brady has established himself as one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time, one of the sport’s most popular and respected players. On Wednesday, Brady may have jeopardized his credibility for good.
Like Patriots coach Bill Belichick, Brady denied having anything to do with footballs being deflated in the AFC Championship Game and denied knowing it had occurred until the next day, but to the quarterback’s former peers, the NFL’s golden boy lost some of the luster he had earned in his 15-year career.
“I did not believe what Tom had to say,” former quarterback and ESPN analyst Mark Brunell said. “Those balls were deflated. Someone had to do it and I don’t believe there’s an equipment manager in the NFL that would on his own initiative deflate a ball without the starting quarterback’s approval. I just didn’t believe what Tom Brady had to say.”
Former Steelers running back Jerome Bettis added, “I’m so disappointed because I thought this was a perfect opportunity for Tom Brady to go and say, ‘You know what? I made a mistake. I blew it. It’s on me. I’ll take the blame here, and this will go away.’ He didn’t do that … I’m disappointed in you Tom Brady.”
Fellow ESPN analyst Brian Dawkins said it was “unbelievable” for Brady not to be aware when he touched the balls every play, while Hall of Famer Troy Aikman agreed that the balls would not be altered unless Brady had instructed an equipment manager to do so.
“It’s obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this,” Aikman told a Dallas radio station — before either of Brady’s or Belichick’s denials. “For the balls to be deflated, that doesn’t happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that. Now the question becomes: Did Bill Belichick know about it?”
Incredibly, the already tarnished Belichick left his press conference earlier in the day with more plausible deniability, particularly to quarterbacks familiar with the ball-picking process.
“I listened to Bill Belichick and I believed every word he said,” eight-year NFL pro Matt Leinart told The Post. “Not once did a head coach ever have any input in that. It’s strictly a quarterback to equipment manager thing and that’s pretty universal. Those are the only two guys that have any part of that process.
“You go through the whole bag and you literally handpick them and say, ‘This one is good, this one’s too hard, put a little bit of air in that one, take a little bit out. … It’s a full 20-minute process to make sure on Sunday you have the exact football you want to be throwing. Quarterbacks are very, very picky about how they want their ball and that goes on everywhere.”
Leinart, now an analyst with FOX Sports, said he saw numerous things done to balls in his career, including being rubbed with varying substances and thrown in dryers, to get the right feel. He said he didn’t consider it cheating because “every team doctors up the ball to the liking of their quarterback” and that while deflation would help Brady with his grip, it would take away velocity and distance on throws.
Nevertheless, Ravens defensive end Chris Canty — whose team lost to the Patriots in the AFC divisional round — thinks it is just another example of New England’s willingness to do anything to gain an unfair edge.
“The Patriots are habitual line-steppers,” Canty said while appearing on NBCSN on Wednesday. “If the allegations are true, then you are talking about attacking the integrity of our game and I have an issue with that.
“What I’m going to say about the deflating of the balls, to me there is no difference than performance-enhancing drugs. You are cheating at that point. You are getting a competitive advantage outside of the rule book and there has to be some sort of consequences for that.”
Aikman thinks the consequences should be harsher than the suspensions handed to the Saints for Bountygate in 2012, when NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell claimed ignorance was not an excuse.
“Sean Payton did not cheat,” Aikman said of the Saints coach who was suspended an entire year. “There was nothing that Sean Payton and the Saints did that was illegal. And they did not give themselves a competitive edge.
“Now twice, under Bill Belichick and possibly a third time, they’ve cheated and given themselves an advantage. To me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints.”
After a season filled with scandals — including Goodell’s indefensible decision to initially suspend Ray Rice two games in the former Ravens running back’s domestic violence case — Aikman thinks enormous pressure is on Goodell, especially due to his friendship with Patriots owner Robert Kraft.
“There’s a lot of coaches and a lot of people that look upon the Patriots as a team that’s been favored in some of the things that have happened — I thought the punishment he got for Spygate was a slap on the wrist, was next to nothing — so we’ll see,” Aikman said.
The thing that is obvious to most of us is that Tom and Bill knew about it. The sad thing is some equipment person is the one that will be fired and used as the scapegoat.
I know for a fact NFL footballs are inflated to the lowest allowed levels in conditions like they played in NE. They do it everywhere. I remember as a kid we'd joke about the other team filling it with hellium when we'd get trounced.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
SOMEWHERE, right now in places accross New England there are people trying to rig an air pressure gauge to read 12 1/2 when there is only 10 1/2 pounds of pressure in the football....
"see America, faulty gauge... honest mistake...", now lets get back to what is really important... '' "about those texts , Mr. farmer...."
The NFL was going to eject Marshawn Lynch from the NFC Title game if he wore Gold Shoes..
But purposely go against the rules? A fine will do..
Breaking the rules doesn't cost the NFL money ...... but fail to wear properly licensed equipment ..... that gets expensive.
the shoes were Nikes. they were just gold.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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