DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns are set up to fail.

Hiring unqualified pepole is a recipe for failure. People like Pettine, no HC experience, as their HC, and John DeFilppo, no OC experience, as their new OC for example. There is high turnover in this franchise because they don't hire the right people in the first place.

This franchise is set up to fail!

you do realize that at some point, every head coach had no previous HC experience, right?

and having previous experience doesn't mean instant success, either.

i mean....hell, we HAVE hired guys with previous HC experience, and hired guys with previous OC and DC experience...

and how has that worked out for us?

we went 7-9. i know thats not a ringing endorsement, but its a hell of a lot better than all the other years, and we were close to being in the playoffs.

lets just wait and see what happens.

It's hard to argue that.
I wonder how many "name" coaches they're able to get here though. MOst of those guys only want to work for winning teams.

Please feel free to go root for a front runner if you don't like it. Seriously.

It seems like the current Browns hire people who really haven't had success or experience else where in the position they have now with the Browns.

Every great coach was brand new at one time with little or no experience. They all had to start somewhere and get their first chance.

I was waiting for a response like this. Surprised it took this long. Excuse me for critizing the franchise. No, I'm going to stick it out with the Browns if you don't mind.

Failure is quitting before a chance of succeeding is given...

I have not seen any signs of failure... I see only people trying to put into place the right pieces to create success.

I could give you a better thought of it's a failure...after the 2015 season has ended...

Until then...as always I prefer to look at things more toward the positive side.. Makes me feel better and makes things more enjoyable...

I have seen many so called "qualified" Coaches come into this organization and not produce in the way I was expecting to see...

A lesson learned for myself is that it takes the right group of people to make it successful. When will that group be put in place ? Won't know until it happens..

What I do know is Expectations are a very hard thing to put into realization.. I can only stay positive.. trust the people who make the decisions and support them until It's obvious it was worth the support or not..

Just to add... I really do like Pettine and trust his decision with the new OC... Sometimes when you think it won't work..you get surprised because it did..

Lets just hope these guys have enough time together to grow into a successful Organisation.

Pettine is my favorite coach that we have hired in my lifetime. Watch his pressers. He comes off as a no-nonsense guy and has seemingly made people earn their spots (see: Gilbert being inactive, Tate losing his starting role, etc.).

Would you have been happy if we hired Chan Gailey as OC? That would have made me ridiculously upset, honestly. I wanted someone willing to adapt and bring fresh ideas about how to create an offense in the NFL today. I don't know if we got that, but I also have read nothing but positive reports about DeFilippo. We'll see on him, but not having NFL OC experience (he was an OC in college) does not mean he cannot do the job.

The only reason we would be setup to fail is that we don't have the QB situation resolved and that always makes everything else hard.

How "current" are you in this post? Everyone starts somewhere. Note the folks who left here and succeeded later, wildly. And with marginal success here.

Give us a chance. Crushing all the hires like this doesn't improve us.

I understand your angst... however unexperienced does not necessarily equate to unqualified, nor does it have to end in failure.

Just like experienced does not guarantee success.

be we do realize that all the coaches with no experience are on the browns....

we are the tripple A of nfl?

friends at work asked who would be the guy we get...i said the guy with no experience....never done it before. they laughed.

im not saying he will be bad or worse than shenanagan. im a browns fan and will see a game or two this year. cant wait for football again

This is laughable. I think the OP would just like to actually root for a team that doesn't consistently finish last in it's own division. I don't think that is asking too much. Seriously.

Did they hire a HC without previous HCing exp. in the NFL? Yes

Did they just hire an OC without previous OCing exp. in the NFL? Yes they did

Most every coach in every position in the NFL was once hired without previous experience at that position in the NFL.

What's it prove? Not a damn thing really.

we've hired experienced coaches and got nothing out of them.

we have, over the years, hired a number of experienced OC's and DC's and even an experienced HC. What's that gotten us?

Not a damn thing.

So, using your logic, we shouldn't hire Rookies at key positions on the coaching staff. Because if we do, we are setting ourselves up for failure..

And since we have already hired experienced guys that HAVE failed, we can't do that either.

The result is that we can't hire rookies and we can't hire experienced because neither guarantees success..

What do you suggest we do that will guarantee a winner?

I'd love to hear your ideas of the RIGHT thing to do.

Yeah whatever. Sill the Brown's FO ignore proven talent while hoping for lighting from a 1 litre plastic bottle full of potential crap.

Unless I'm tripping, I can't think of one of our HC's that has had previous experience as a NFL HC, can you? Mangini doesn't count. He was a glorified ball boy.

As a fan watching the Brown's the last fifteen years constantly ignoring proven talent and recruiting unproven talent while failing miserably to build a NFL quality top tier Oline, and to secure a franchise QB is unforgivable.

eric Mangini was a DC and HC in the NFL. Butch Davis wasn't a HC in the NFL but he was in College. He was also a DC of a Superbowl winning team.

Manginni was the Jets HC before coming to Cleveland

Holmgren was a HC before coming to Cleveland too!

As opposed to getting a retread that takes the money and runs?

There is no absolute formula for success. If you could guarantee me success if we only hire experienced guys, I'd be fine with that.

You can't of course. So why is it so bad to hire rookies at certain positions. especially if they've grown into the next logical career progression?

I swear, some want to complain just to complain LOL

Would you prefer we go back to the Mike Holmberg days?

Not me.

Don't mind at all. That kind of wasn't directed specifically to you. There are several people on this board that seemingly do nothing but complain about the Browns, and it gets old. I want a winner as much as anyone, but I'm a dedicated fan regardless of their record.

We all want to root for a winner, we all want our team to be a winner. They're not right now, and it takes time. Please recall we have an owner that has had control of the team for only 2 seasons now.

We had a better record than his first year. The organization is making additional changes with the goal of having an even better record. The post says we have unqualified people running the team. Every coach has to start somewhere. The Steelers hired Tomlin and he was never a HC before then. The Ravens hired Harbaugh and he was never a HC before then. I could go on and on...Why is Pettine not qualified? The same can be said about OCs, why is DeFilippo not qualified.

I agree on the high turnover, but frankly if there's a coach that doesn't want to be in Cleveland, I don't want him there. Also, if the brass doesn't believe a coach or GM or whatever is the right person to get us to be a consistent winner, then I trust they're doing the right thing. 2 years of ownership is not long enough to judge if it is the same ol' same ol'.

Be patient, or move on.

This thread is setup to fail, lol.

I do understand the frustration, concern and emotion though.

I tend to agree with your premise. We have an owner that only had a small investment in the Steelers with no real say in the operations. A GM who has never been a GM before. A HC who has never been an NFL HC before and now an OC who has never been an OC before.

Now people keep coming back with, "Well everyone that is successful has to have gotten a chance to be successful somewhere". But what they're failing to consider is how many times have there been this many "rookies" combined in the FO and coaching staff in the NFL who had great success?

I mean people seem to try and excuse a first time NFL OC. That's fine. Now combine that with all the other first timers in the organization and a very different picture comes into focus. We have a host of rookies in charge of things. What are the odds, that as a group they will be a success? Not good.

Now that doesn't mean they can't succeed. That doesn't mean they won't succeed. What it means is the odds of that aren't good to put it mildly.

People keep harping on, "But we won seven games". We won seven games based on the easiest part of a very weak schedule. The schedule will be much tougher next year and even die hard Homers have to know that.

Now unlike you, I haven't tried to pick apart our staff. When Banner and Lombardi came here, they had extensive resume's with which to form an opinion. The same can not be said when you hire people that do not have such experience. So I will let their performance form my opinion.

But for people saying your opinion is without merit? I don't think so.

But pit, hiring experienced guys doesn't guarantee success either. As we've seen.

that's the point. You can't JUST point to rookies and say, they CAN'T win. Any more than you can point to experienced professionals and say they WILL win.

At best its a crapshoot. Same as the draft.

If the only qualified people to be HC's are former HC's, the position would eventually go extinct.

The key is to get the right people in place, whether it's a retread or someone brand spankin' new. Based on what I've seen so far of Pettine, I like him a lot. It seems like he has a hard-nosed attitude, no tolerance for BS and loves tough, physical football.

Flip seems like he's going to be flexible with his offense and keep the aspects that have been working. That sounds much better to me than a guy like Martz who, while he might have experience, is as rigid as can be.

Either way, it's WAY too early to write off this staff, especially since they seemingly have us headed down the right path.

I don't disagree with your thought process either. The only thing I will point out yet again, is that we aren't simply talking about a HC, or an OC, or a GM......

We are talking about a combination of all of the above. It's the cumulative effect of such a combination of inexperience that drives the odds of success way down.

As I stated, none of these guys have enough of a resume' for me to form an opinion of their abilities to do their respective jobs. Which is why I'll base my opinions upon future performance.

But I do believe if one is being objective, when looking big picture we have a huge experience gap in many key positions. To me it's more about hiring the right people than anything, and maybe these are the right people. But we're depending on a lot of people with no real experience at their respective jobs to all be very good.

With one position your odds aren't so bad. But when you expect to hit home runs with several people in key positions, your odds go way down.

I believe given your profession, if you saw a business you deal with follow this same pattern, you would believe their odds are far less than good at succeeding with such a strategy.

I'm not saying things will fail. I believe people may be missing that part. Is Pettine going into his second year? Yes he is. Do I like him? Yes I do. But little evidence is in on whether he will be a good HC or not.

I like his attitude and the things he says. We did win seven games against pretty much a cupcake schedule. But I didn't see anything definitive one way or the other on him being a great HC in the NFL.

Do you actually believe you've seen anything from Haslam that breeds stability or continuity? I certainly haven't. I guess my point is more that even if people continue here, until they give a foundation of proof that they're qualified to do the job, just being here doesn't answer any of the questions.

If you've never done a job before, you can do it for three, four or even five years, but if you're not good at it, or getting better at it, what difference does that really make?

"Unless I'm tripping, I can't think of one of our HC's that has had previous experience as a NFL HC, can you? Mangini doesn't count. He was a glorified ball boy."

Well, if a head coach is available who's been a head coach before that mean's he's been fired more than likely. Then you could complain that we hired another team's reject. Convenient!

and there you have it.

New coach - Browns suck becasue they hired someone with no experince.

Old Coach - Browns suck because they hired a coach with a losing record

Any Coach leaves or is NOT hired - Browns suck because they didn't get or keep such and such

You could have easily titled this thread "The Browns are Going to Continue to Fail". When you have guys at the top have no freakin clue how to build a team then you basically have zero chance.

Blindly following and agreeing with every move the front office makes doesn't make you any more dedicated than anyone else.

It makes you a sheep.

I certainly don't mind you having a positive outlook on things. I actually would expect nothing less. There are only a couple of points that you made which I take issue with.....



I think we're far too early in the process to make any such claim. So far both of last years first round draft picks are huge question marks at best and while I do like Pettine, seven wins against a cupcake schedule doesn't quite equate to long term success.

I know you're going to point to Botonio and later picks and UDFA's which I would agree with you about. But the cream is at the top and if you don't hit a home run on first round picks it makes it very hard and takes much longer to get the building blocks you need to have a competitive roster. A GM HAS to hit on first round picks.

No, I'm not writing those picks off, but early results certainly wouldn't indicate that "it worked". I'm hoping Farmer does better in the first round of the draft this year and won't disparage him, but I also won't declare him with saying "it worked" so far.

You seem to be in agreement with me about Haslam. We both know he wants continuity, but does he have the patience to see it through? I don't believe either of us has the answer to that. I also don't believe either of us know how much, if any meddling he is doing.



The only way I compare coaching to other jobs is that not everyone makes the transition to a job of higher authority and responsibility. Not everyone that is successful at one level will make it at the next level. Many people peek at differing stages.

If not for that, every coach would make it up through the NFL ranks and be HOF NFL HC's. It simply doesn't work that way.

Much with all these guys. Lombardi's draft record as GM stunk everywhere he was. So I hope you're not suggesting Farmer learning under Lombardi was a good thing? It's my hope Farmer got the vast majority of his skills through his scouting experience and wasn't influenced by Lombardi at all.

No, I don't believe coaching is vastly different in respect to the fact that not everyone will measure up at the next level. If that were so, the league would be flooded with great coaches.

+1. This is what I was trying to say and the point of this topic.

While hiring inexperienced coaches may work in other places, it sure hasn't worked here. Anyone remember Brian Daboll? That sure worked out well didn't it. He had no offensive scheme, he was a go with the flow, play it by ear guy. Our new OC seems the same sort. Say's he'll make a brand new "Cleveland" offense. We'll do things differently every week....That's exactly what Daboll said. Exactly.
In other words he has no intention of installing a proven system. He'll throw a bunch of plays in a hat and along with Pettine will pull them out to make a Cleveland offense. Much like Mangini and Daboll did..... Oh joy. Can't wait to see THAT. Worked fine the last time. Gee it sure would be nice to hire an OC that knew what the hell he was doing and ran a system that has a track record of SUCCESS. Oh wait, we had that and didn't like it. What Browns fans want is random plays thrown together because it's new. And new and different is always good. Even if it results in 4-12.

Farmer and Pettine just bet their jobs on a rookie OC that plans on creating a completely new offense. On a team with no quarterback..... or a defense. Hilarious.

And where did I say I agree with every move?