DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns reach out to Brian Hoyer's camp about extension

Looks like the fact that the Browns decided to play their hand in the last few games and reveal just how unprepared little johnny was, that they plan to keep him. Playing him and revealing his lack of preparedness, poor mechanics and fundamentals most likely indicates they will not try a trade to get anything for him. The cards are played.

With that being said, it would be nice to sign Hoyer before the March URFA market. Who is available that is any better? Consider him a bridge behind a reassembled and healthy O line, cross your fingers, hope for the best and let little johnny mature....er...well.....hope he matures, grows a pair, puts his nose to the grindstone and learns NFL football.

Then that means if Shanny and Pett were on the same side, Farmer and Haslam were on the same side, they bring in Flip who is Pettine's buddy, the division remains. Unless they find a way to compromise, we are still a mess.

mac: You really need to reread and absorb Pettine's comments that he made during the Flip presser...

If there were a better option than Hoyer in the FA market, I'd say, ok, let him move on. But I just don't see one.

Does anyone else see a better option?

Ain't that the truth. I have no idea of what was going on with Hoyer but he was definitely in a hole. Injury, team conflict, hitting the wall, who knows?

Still, he's a safer bet than Manziel at this point and that means something. Can Manziel change that situation? Sure can, the ball is in his court. I say sign Hoyer to a modest starter's contract, name him the starter, and tell Manziel it's up to him to figure out how to change that. There just aren't that many appealing alternatives out there on the horizon right now. If something better comes along in the process then we should jump on it. Manziel just hasn't shown anyone yet that he's better than Hoyer. That's Manziel's problem.

What I see are a lot of similar options. So with all things being equal, get the best deal you can with one of the above.

IMO, they should look at the system they want to run, evaluate how Hoyer and all other FA QB's fit that system, then go after which ever QB you feel best fits.

That may be Hoyer or it may be someone else.

Nah, it's hardly a moot point ......

If Manziel goes out next year and tears up the NFL, throwing 30 TD passes and running for 5 more, then no one will give 2 snorts about what he does in his own time. In fact, and suddenly, it will become a positive. "Man, Johnny can go party till 4 am and still throw 4 TD the next day! Who else can do that?!" lol You know as well as I do that as soon as he starts to show talent on the field, all will be forgiven. Sure, there would be a few who continued to blast him, or who would still say he sucked, even if he did as I suggested earlier, but most would probably be on board with him.

No doubt Ytown.. but given his antics, I question whether or not he can even come close to that type of production.

So yeah, if he passed for 30 TD's and runs for 5 more and our record is good, hell yeah, we got our guy,

JM is going to have to buckle down to accomplish that.. I"m not yet convinced he can or will.

Oh, I have no idea whether he can or not either. Mine was more commentary on the fans and/or talking heads than anything else.

I do think, though, that it is foolish to give up on a QB who was going to need significant work, but who has talent, after only 6 quarters of play.

Mac: Just Stop

If you just read Pet's remarks, you would know this was all just over blown. Shannty did not want to be here. He used any excuse to leave. If you remember he left without a contract the first time we interviewed him, because of a blow-up with Banner. Then he comes back, after finding nothing else and takes the job. Knowing Banner & lombardi are not for long. He didn't get his cake and eat it to so he took his ball and left. End of story.

If the Hoyer we saw at the first half of the season can come back and get better. That is a pretty darn good QB that needs to be resigned. He regressed as the year went on, coach him up. He has proven he has something. No reason he cant be coached to get better. Keep Johnny on the bench until he proves he shouldn't be.

Which was still light-years ahead of anything Manziel has done thus far.

Connor Shaw was better than Manziel. Manziel, if not for his name and the hype, shouldn't be above 3rd String.

from what i heard last, this years qb class is weak. so we might have to go with a fa qb...we know the guy and all

I agree, too soon to give up on him. Gotta give it sometime.

I hope that Haslam is on board with the timeline.

I find it interesting that everyone finds ways to rip on Hoyer but hardly ever finds ways to make excuses for him.

How many quarterbacks that weren't all pro quality players have come back less than a year removed from a torn ACL with hardly any weapons on offense and had a winning record?

Get a right tackle and a wide receiver and I think Hoyer could get it done here. He has the respect of the locker room, which is huge.

Y

Of course we would all be on board with little johnny....if he wins. Conversely, jumping ship if not. I believe the latter is what most of us expect. Seems most of us are resolved that little johnny is a Brown next season. Oh well.......

If I am Farmer I am on the phone with literally every team asking about QBs available in a trade. The QB options available to us in the draft and free agency this off-season are historically bad.

Chase Daniel is probably a better option than anyone available. Same with Matt Cassell. Our options are bleak. That is why signing Hoyer to an extension is even a thought as this point.

I don't think it's any coincidence that we reached out to Hoyer at the same time as bringing DeFlip aboard.

Nice idea and my thoughts exactly. Throw him to the wolves, put up or shut up.

Would still rather see Hoyer as a bridge and look to little johnny in 2016. I know, I know, another "building" year so to speak. What other choices do we really have unless some wheelin n dealin trade occurs.

If Johnny Manziel was a UDFA named Johnny Jamboogie, he'd be an afterthought and easy camp casualty after loafing last season. That's how we need to view him.

If he's willing to put in the work and produce results on the field, then fantastic. If not, there's no reason he should be our future. It doesn't matter where we drafted him; we're not getting that pick back.

I think we have to bring Hoyer back. He's a proven quantity in many ways from a team standpoint and he at least has some performances he can hang his hat on. He also has some he would prefer forgotten.

Is he the answer at QB? I don't think so, sadly, but the implosion, after re-watching the gamees, looked all mechanics, fundamental based and his confidence went. That is not ideal but if Flip is the QB horse whisperer we've been hearing of, The Hoyer of weeks 1-8 would do me just fine whilst we wait for the King incarnate - be that party boy or a draftee.

However, if Pettine and Farmer let Manziel waltz in the starting gig after this season's antics, I would lose faith in both. He has shown nothing. At least bust your ass and fail; not even trying is the worst sin in my eyes.

Re-sign Hoyer, incentive laden deal and let him compete for the job. Look to pick up a QB in the draft and let the 3 of them duke it out. At least Hoyer has some previous - good and bad - and would probably help any rook we may draft.

Bottom line - he's probably the best option and at worst a damn good backup QB. I'm hoping he can prove to be more. However hope has never been my best mistress.

I'm a super-curious sort- always have been, even as a little kid.

My favorite question: "why?"

Which brings me to Hoyer's performance this past season. SOMETHING must have happened to him at the 2/3 point in the season. I mean, nobody I've ever watched has so completely fallen apart in such a short period of time. Footwork, mechanics, timing, progressions- ALL OF IT- and all at once.

It's not enough for me to hear "He sucks" as a reason. There must be an answer to why he looked so different in those 4 games before he was benched. If there really IS a reason or reasons, and that reason is something fixable, I could see him being seriously considered for a re-up.

He was able to move us down the field pretty smartly in some of those earlier games. THAT Brian Hoyer is still someone we can work with.

Thoughts?

I don't understand this take.

Connor Shaw proved in 4 quarters that he should not be on an NFL football field and why he was a UDFA.

Manziel's seam pass to Hawkins, I believe, in the Panthers game was better than anything at all Shaw did in his entire game.

Manziel flashed something, ableit brief. Shaw, even to the untrained eye, is not a professional quarterback.

And neither is Manziel.

Manziel makes one pretty pass and you want to excuse the fact that - like it or not - Shaw outperformed him (not that that takes all that much) and did so with the exact same cast of characters, and against a tougher defense?

It makes no sense. I don't see how you can look at Shaw's performance and think that Manziel is worth something, but Shaw isn't, when Manziel was worse than Shaw.

I'm not saying that Shaw is great, or even good mind you... I'm saying that Manziel is and was as bad and worse.

I'm in your camp Clem. Falling off the map that thoroughly, all the good things he did, something doesn't make sense if you believe the "Hoyer sucks" proponents. I still think he hit a wall. May be completely off base, he may never get over it. However, the drives to come back into games, the decision making, it was a joy to watch a confident, decisive QB. He had his luck for sure. Maybe defenses got tape on him, but in his poor stretch, it was all his fundamentals that went to the washroom, which caused his outcomes to fail. Hell, I don't know to be honest. However, Hoyer games 1-8 is all I have to cling on to. I want that dude back.

In my dilettante opinion, Hoyer gave me more to believe than Manziel ever did, college be damned, because, as we all know all too well, college ain't dem dar pros.

It may well be clinging to the edge of a liferaft, but at least parts of it float.

I think it was coaching. There are records of rifts between Hoyer and Shannahan, and Hoyer being a "know-it-all", and changing plays at the line (which worked out well for us early on).

My guess is that games 1-8 was the real Hoyer. After that was Hoyer giving in to pressure from coaches to rigidly do things their way, come Hell or High Water.

I've been asking the same thing. WHY? did he suddenly go from Star to Slug?

Was he injured? is the loss of Mack the key? Was the arrival of Gordon throwing things off?

I didn't hear about any injuries. We know that loss of Mack was a big hit. No question. But was the single biggest reason?

As for Gordon, Geez, dropping balls, not being in the right place or being in the right place but getting there late. His head wasn't in the game at all. Or at least it didn't appear so.

Is it possible that Shanahan changed something?

I don't know the answer. But what I ain't buying is "he woke up one morning and became a horrid QB" thing.. Ain't buying into that.

Something happened.

The arrival of Gordon was absolutely a part of it.

Gordon was in no way ready to take the field, much less be the #1 read on most plays. Shannahan even admitted to "falling in love with the prospect of Gordon out there" and calling plays that frequently made Gordon the #1 read.

Add in Gordon going the wrong way or just outright dropping balls on most everything that he was targetted with, and his presence alone dramatically degrades every possession. Two incompletes in a series turns into a 3-n-out pretty quickly, especially when the runs were tending to go not much of anywhere at that time.

The offense definitely changed when Gordon came in, and not for the better - at all. He should have been forced to earn his way back in rather being treated like some magical cure-all.

I'm just basing my judgment on what I see with my eyes in terms of their skill set. Shaw has an incredibly weak arm. It was really bad. And it was either his arm or head that caused him to hold the ball way too long. I don't think he made one timing throw the entire game outside of the little floater to Cameron. He would only throw the ball after he went into backyard football mode. In terms of just raw visual, he is not a professional QB.

Manziel has more arm, easily. Showed that in the Buffalo game. While prone to backyard football mode himself, he made some nice throws from the pocket as well. Just that little bit to me is enough to put him over Shaw.

I'm not advocating that Manziel is going to make it or even deserves the shot. I am merely stating that I thought it was pretty easy to see there is a better chance that Manziel is a pro QB than Shaw.

I admit both sample sizes are small, but I was actually amazed at how awful Shaw was.

In terms of Manziel, I am just incredibly disappointed in the overall package - play, attitude, work ethic, competitive fire. All fails.

He still has more physical tools than Shaw.

I agree with this, and right now that is his ONLY advantage that I can see.

In every walk of life, tools ain't nowt without application and fortitude. You may as well sell 'em.

You know, I agree with all of this. But if your QB doesn't go through his progressions and continues to throw to Gordon, that part I can't blame Gordon for. As much as Shanahan "fell in love with his presence out there.", it's up to your QB to go through his reads and pass the ball to the open target. He was forcing that ball to Gordon in many cases.

That also doesn't explain how his mechanics went straight to hell.

What Hoyer did was just enough to win when everything was perfect. When the OL was totally healthy and we were running the ball great, he was enough to do what had to be done. When the running game stopped working after Mack went down, the pressure of carrying the load caused Hoyer to crumble.

The long ball worked when our WR's looked more like they were waiting on a punt return than receiving a pass. People poke fun at "the route tree" terminology, but let me tell you, if play designs weren't created that left those WR's standing wide open with nobody within 20 yards of them, those balls are Int's.

I agree you can blame Gordon for his play, but that doesn't explain Hoyer's. Was his play better than Manziels? Well of course it was. But that's not saying much. When the pressure was really on Hoyer during a possible play off run, he crumbled like an Oreo cookie.

I'd rather us go with Connor Shaw or Manziel, tank the entire season and secure the 2016 #1 pick then resign Hoyer. I had a hard time stomaching watching the guy play this past season and really don't want to endure that again next season.

You act like Brandon Weeden was behind center again. Hoyer was bad at the end but not all of the losses were on him.

Hoyer stopped being accurate when throwing the ball. I don't know why. All I know is Hoyer sucked BAD second half of the season. Period. He might have had some injury that was not disclosed or he may have lost his mental toughness. Either way he sucked. There is no way to sugar coat it.

I didn't really enjoy watching him from the start. His performance in pre-season even really turned me off.

Hoyer was horrible in preseason. Some of his early season games were very enjoyable (Tennessee and Baltimore stick out in particular). His final four starts were terrible, among the worst QB play we've had since the return.

And you trust every word that Pettine says? He would never in a million years tow the company line. LOL