DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA / Cavs Discussion II

Heres a better one...show me a comparable player traded for 2 firsts like mosgov... exactly...you can't....and the fact you think our bench is ok is hilarious...name one player on a our bench that contributes consistently.. there isn't one...we have one of the worst in the NBA...so when i said moves being made, i'm talking about signing farmar..which i said before anyone on here, that gets rid of delli, that fixes backup PG, pick one of miller or jones since they both suck and haven't contributed, and replace one of them with say ray allen, or at worst a backup big like dalembert...thats what i mean by moves being made...I would take a monetary bet that this bench don't look like this come april.. As i've said a million times..I'm ok with the mosgov trade if we win...thats all that matters..and I know I'm not the only person that thinks we over paid...hell even the guy who made the trade (griffin) said he overpaid but it was what was necessary. So let it go..you think 1st round picks are nothing..i get it...2 for a guy thats not even a 10/10 is a bit much for me...but as i've said, if we win, it works out great..if we don't then well thats another discussion

i used calderon as an example...I talked about farmar before anyone else on here. He's free to sign wherever he wants, a trade guarantees..and calderon is a better player. But I would be 100% fine with farmar, plus he knows blatts system.. I could see sets where he's at the 1 with kyrie at the 2. I just want a PG thats not delli, the guy is bad, and the second unit needs a reliable ball handler. I will be honest I haven't watched enough of shump to know if he can handle in a pinch..i do know that delli can't..if I see his running one leg shot that completely airballs again i'm going to break stuff, same with marion and his record setting missed chippies

Show me ANY player that's been traded straight-up for two first round draft picks and only two first round draft picks. Most the players that do net multiple picks are part of a much larger deal, with additional players coming the other way in addition to the picks.

And as I said, most trades are player for player with draft picks thrown in as compensation, which is why player for picks trades are so rare. It's not because players aren't worth two late firsts. Heck look at Dion. He fetched a late-round pick, a guy that was drafted 17th and a guy that was drafted 18th. So technically, he got traded for three first rounders.

Show me a comparable or better big man, (age, size, and skill level) with as favorable a contract situation, available this year.

Last year?

The year before?

I can't think of any. 2 1st round picks, both of which will be low 1st round picks, is a cheap price to pay. Most teams just won't trade a quality big man who has a favorable contract.



We have several guys who can contribute. Do they do so "consistently"? No .... if they did, then they would be starting somewhere else. Against the Clippers, Tristan Thompson contributed 24/12 in an emergency start. That's quality. JR Smith is going to be coming off the bench when Shumpert returns, and he has played quality minutes.

Part of the problem we have had is that a guy like Thompson, who is a high energy kind of guy, has been forced to start at C, instead of being the backup between C and PF, where he really belongs, and where he can be effective. Delly had to start for a while because of injuries. That's not his best role. Marion and Lebron were hurt at the same time, leaving the team without a SF for a few games.

With our starters, all the 2nd team should really have t do is maintain status quo. Now that we are getting everything settled in with the starting lineup, the 2nd team can now also start to stabilize. Thompson can be a decent 2nd teamer at 2 positions. Smith can score. Man, this is the kind of bench you get when you have 2 max contracts in the starting lineup. We'll get Andy back next year, and hopefully he'll be able to play some meaningful minutes between C and PF, as the backup. When healthy, he is a solid player. Maybe we'll talk Farmar into taking a minimum contract, because that's all we can offer him. Our hands are tied now, as far as contracts are concerned. We can't just decide that we're going to violate the NBA rules and sign whoever we want.

We have what I would consider to be an average type backup crew ... and with the starters we have, that's pretty darn good.

I think that you might have brought up the Spurs, and they are a special case. They have superstars who have taken well below market deals so they can stay together, and add extra pieces. Not everyone wants to do that.

Overall, a team with great starters is going to have to sacrifice some in the backups. They have to go cheap. There is only so much cap to go around. We have 5 capable starters, whether Shumpert or Smith starts .... and when Smith goes to the bench, he will immediately upgrade the bench. Thompson is a solid backup at either the C or PF spot. Is he a great player? No. Is he a very good backup? Yep. Marion is near the end of his career, but he can still contribute, especially on defense. Haywood's best days are also behind him, but he can still also play a little defense. Would it surprise you to know that he has played only 74 minutes, and has 8 blocked shots? It sure surprised me.

You have to keep in mind that the units have all been a jumbled mess because of injuries. We have had a bunch of new guys trying to learn how to play together, while seeing guys moving up and down the lineup because of other guys getting hurt. That makes the coaches jobs even harder, and also makes the players jobs harder as well.

Now that we have had a little consistency in the lineup for a week or so, all of a sudden things are starting to come together. Imagine that.

Since one of the first rounders we got was basically a throw-in for the Waiters deal and it was immediately thrown into the Mozgov trade ... just think of it this way:

We traded Dion Waiters, Alex Kirk, Lou Amundson and a first round pick ... for Mozgov, JRS and Shumpbert. Looks like a pretty good trade to me.

https://vine.co/v/OIpunwD5u7i

I've said that very thing all along .... to no avail.

That's great!

RT @jon_greenberg "We played embarrassing basketball. I want my money back." Pop.

How I see the East standings finishing-

1. Atlanta
2. Chicago
3. Washington
4. Cleveland
5. Toronto
6. Detroit
7. Miami
8. Milwaukee (Could see Charlotte replacing them)

The only thing I'm worried about is if Iman comes back and we're slotting him as a starter, how does JR react to going to the bench?

He seems revitalized playing meaningful minutes for a good team.. is that going to be enough, or will he have an attitude about it?

The Cavaliers are 4.5 games back of both Chicago and Toronto, and 6 back of Washington. I think that the Cavaliers could pass up any of them.

I more than "ok" with the Mozgov deal but I'm confused what you mean by "favorable contract situation?

He'll be a FA at the end of the season so there is a chance we gave up young talent for a rental. A theme similar to the Kevin Love deal.

Also, his contract has us in the luxury tax...for the time being. $4M+ (salary) actually will equate to much more. What that amount will be I don't know and I understand it's not solely his contract that puts us in the tax, but it furthers how deep we are in it.

I'm glad we have a owner that is willing to pay for a championship but I still wouldn't call Timofey's contract situation favorable to Cleveland unless I'm misunderstanding you.

j/c

I don't see how a first round pick is a "throw in"..lol, that doesn't even sound right but whatever, I'm done talking about the subject, we traded 2 firsts for a guy that isn't even on a long term contract..but if we win i don't care..my opinion is we overpaid for him, but when you're desperate thats what happens. As far as the bench...you aren't understanding what I mean by consistent. whens the last time miller, marion, delli, jones, or hayward have contributed scoring? We are the worst bench in the NBA with a paltry 23 point per game...almost 50% less than the top contenders


http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/15/7/pts/1-1



so forgive me if I don't feel comfortable going into the playoffs with that bench. Your defense and your bench are the 2 biggest factors that win rings.. Funny thing is last year our bench was in the top 10..so yes, we need to move some pieces around to fix that issue.. Thats what happens when your bench is the equivalent of an NBA retirement home

if JR goes to 6th man, then he gets to shoot more. he likes that. he won 6th man of the year a couple years ago and mentioned in an interview when we first traded him that he is fine with that role for a contender.

now, w/o the other starters drawing attention, he may not be as efficient with his scoring.

Yep, and we need a scoring threat coming off the bench!

my only problem with JR on the bench is there is no other scorer on the bench for him to defer or involve. So once he goes to the bench we may get the chucker JR

It's not like it will always be JR and 4 other backups. Starters are benched in the 1st only to emerge in the 2nd. JR provides scoring when Kyrie is sitting. That's all I care about to be honest. There will be other scoring options on the court throughout JR minutes, namely a guy by the name of Lebron and his 38 minutes a game.

Or Kevin Love for that matter....except the 4th quarter!

Mozgov is under contract for this year and next. Next year is a team option for less than $5 million. Does anyone think that the Cavaliers are going to pass on that? That is a bargain basement contract.

You're right, my bad.

I pray to god lebron doesn't keep up 38 minutes a night...i'd love to see him down around 33 and I'd love to see them all get some games off, I'm sure thats part of the plan, but I rather lose a couple games than wear lebron out before it matters

j/c

in case anyone missed it, for the Celtics last night, Sullinger had the ball poked away, dove between 4 defenders to get it, then threw the ball from his back into the corner to Evan Turner for the game winning 3pter with 1 second left (they were down 2). great to see a couple ex-Buckeyes win a game in the NBA like that.

Had to happen that I'd be right sooner or later.

Shumpert expected to play tonight.

Report: Iman Shumpert to make Cavs debut on Friday : Fantasy News
http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasy...debut-on-friday

Cavaliers guard Iman Shumpert is expected to make his debut with his new club on Friday against the Hornets, reports the News Herald. Shumpert has not played since Dec. 12 because of a dislocated shoulder. He was traded from New York to Cleveland on Jan. 5. He averaged 9.3 points and 3.4 rebounds in 24 games with the Knicks. According to the paper, the Cavaliers plan to ease him into the lineup before eventually making him a starter.

Cleveland is a 9 1/2-point home favorite against Charlotte.

I'm very excited to see him in action... let's see what he can do cause I don't pay attention to New York or any other team really, and know nothing about him outside of what I've read...

Is it any coincidence Lebron has looked better after 2 weeks of resting? If rust wasn't a possibility I'd give him an entire month off before the playoffs started.

He's playing great basketball as of recent. No doubt. He just threw a beauty alley oop to Mozgoz!

There has been like, four or five alley oop plays by the Cavaliers and the first half isn't even over lol... they're having some fun this game on Charlotte's behalf.

OMG the way they are playing is SICK! JR half court alley oop to the King!

This is fun to watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That play, which started with KYRIE PLAYING DEFENSE..

Was ridiculous.

Already have doubled them up in the second quarter. Wish I could watch this one live. Seem like the light has finally switched on for them. We just need to see what they can do against a legit contender this Sunday.

"To Russia, from Love"

Wonder what its gonna take to get a Mozgov jersey.. I like that guy

Even the bottom of our roster is playing great tonight..

Im loving Shumpert right now.

Cavs set franchise record in 129-90 blowout over Charlotte Hornets
By JASON LLOYD Published: January 23, 2015
Irving, Kyrie defends Kemba
Kyrie Irving pressures the Hornets' Kemba Walker in the first quarter of Friday's 129-90 Cavs win in Cleveland. (AP Photo/Mark Duncan)
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CLEVELAND – The Cavaliers enjoyed their biggest halftime lead in franchise history and rolled easily to a 129-90 victory Friday night against the Charlotte Hornets.
Forward LeBron James had 25 points, nine assists and six rebounds in a season-low 27 minutes. Guard J.R. Smith scored 21 points – all on 3-pointers – as the Cavs set a season high in scoring, won their most lopsided game of the season and won their fifth straight. The Hornets lost for just the second time in their last 10 games.
The Cavs shot 61 percent in the first half and led 75-40 at the break, their most points in a half in at least 12 years. They constantly beat the Hornets down the floor in transition and had open looks at the basket throughout the night. Their defense, meanwhile, held an opponent under 42 percent shooting for the third-consecutive game.
Cavs center Timofey Mozgov had 14 points and 10 rebounds, guard Kyrie Irving scored 18 points and backup center Tristan Thompson grabbed 10 rebounds. None of the starters played the fourth quarter, otherwise the Cavs could’ve made a run at becoming the first time in 30 years to have all five starters score at least 15 points in three consecutive games. Kevin Love finished with just nine points.
The Hornets had been playing well in the new calendar year, but that all came crashing down at Quicken Loans Arena. This performance was even worse than the Hornets’ first trip here, when they fell behind 21-0 to start a December game before losing by only nine.
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist had 15 points and seven rebounds and Al Jefferson had 22 points and 11 rebounds for the Hornets, who were playing their first road game in two weeks.
Iman Shumpert scored eight points in his long-awaited Cavs debut after missing six weeks with a dislocated left shoulder. He was traded, along with Smith, from the New York Knicks to the Cavs in the midst of his recovery.
Shumpert is expected to eventually supplant Smith as the starting shooting guard, but coach David Blatt may not want to tinker with what’s working. The Cavs have now won their last five games after dropping six straight.

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-cava...rce=twitterfeed

Watching Iman in post game interviews..

He says he's fine with sacrificing his offensive stats to focus on locking people down on D.

Like this guy.

Klay Thompson had 37 points. . . in the 3rd quarter.

I dunno .... he cost us 1 first round picks ..... (Sorry lead .. just had to do it)

Mozgov played 21 minutes tonight, and had 14 points and 10 boards.

Shumpert returned from injury, and went 3-3 from the floor.

JR Smith has been huge since he came over from the Knicks.

Kyrie is playing defense. Man, next thing you know, cats and dogs will be living together .....

Oh, and Delly also had 8 assists.

This was the 1st time in 2015 that the Hornet gave up more than 100 points. They had won what ...9 in a row coming into tonight's game?

Anyway ...... great game by the Cavaliers tonight. This team is really rounding into form. I wonder how they pull JR Smith out of the starting lineup with the way he is playing. He also runs, and I think that works well with Lebron. Well, too much talent to figure out is a great problem to have.

I was so happy when we drafted Tristan Thompson. Then I realized we drafted Tristan not Klay. Doh. Klay was the guy I wanted with that pick. I didn't even know Tristan was in the draft - I don't follow the nba draft like i do the nfl.

That game last night was like playing with these guys in nba2k.

Last two games, anything they do just works. I hope we go and embarass waiters on Sunday.