DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mike Pettine let Shanahan leave to avoid 'dark cloud'

Says the guy that claimed he would "root for" DeFilippo.

Every negative play. Hell every play that isn't a first down next season..

"UGH! This guy sucks! Told you we'd miss Kyle!"

The Browns score a Touchdown..

"UGH! We are SOOO lucky the defense gave us that TD.."

The Browns win.

"UGH! I'm happy for the win, but CLEARLY we have work to do, would of been a lot easier if Kyle was still here.."

The Falcons struggle.

"UGH! I can't believe how bad Quinn is at being a HC! And their line is terrible! Poor Kyle never stood a chance!"

I already answered that question in the very post you quoted. On draft day.

I laid out the entire thing as a theory which was just as valid as anything else I've seen on this board, but I'll repeat it for you.

Your OC has a plan with his offense. He knows the skill set of the type of QB he needs to run it. Now let's suppose, which is exactly the same thing others are doing with their theories, that Shanahan made it clear the type of QB he needed and suggested that a Bridgewater or Carr type QB is what he needed.

Instead, someone in the decision making process, be that Farmer or Haslam, overrode that and selected JFF. Let's face it, Shanahan had already seen an immature QB act in Washington with RG3 and most likely wouldn't have wanted the baggage that came with jFF. I doubt many OC's would.

Let's look at the job Shanny is reportedly going to take, Atlana. Would you compare Ryan more to JFF or Bridgewater/Carr?

I'm not claiming my theory to be correct. I'm saying it's just as viable as many of the other theories people are tossing around without really knowing what happened.

If Shanahan felt like JFF was not a good fit, was not a good draft move and combine that with the results we saw from him, could anyone really blame Shanny for wanting out?

Shanny had more experience in his OC role than any other people in the building. Including our GM, HC, or DC. If he saw that the people in charge were ignoring getting him the tools he needed, were making bad decisions in addressing the QB position and saw little hope to succeed here due to that as a reason for leaving, I don't blame him.

Now theories are fine, but if we're going to toss them around, let's not pretend that the ones we want to hear, or like are the only viable theoris.

You have issues, man.

Yeah, you couldn't possibly feel he is a downgrade at the OC position but hope for the best and root for the guy.

That can't be done around here. It's not allowed.

Assuming DeFilippo doesnt run any read option, and has the same playbook for every QB, i consider it an huge upgrade..

Also he actually wants to be here. So that's a big plus.

I doubt Kyle would of stayed here longer than two years max even if everything was hunk dory.. But the fact that stories of him being a douche seem to follow him everywhere he goes, I'm ok with him being gone..

And moving forward.

Its much easier to hate everything, and say "I'm glad i was wrong" because that means were winning, and if we dont win.. then people get to do the DTer classic "I told you so" which IMO some people would appear to enjoy more than winning..

LOL........amazing analysis.

Oh im sorry, did I not talk about Route Trees enough?

How about the Princeton offense? Should we be talking about that too?

I mean, you're the professional. I bow down to your great knowledge.

Please enlighten me. Show me the way.

Oh im sorry, did I not talk about Route Trees enough?

That there is just plain funny.......

Except if Manziel is in there, then it has to be route shrubs.

More like hedges.

Tumbleweeds?

JFF is from Texas, I like the southwestern imagery...lol

Haven't read the other posts. By this logic, JJO should be cut immediately. He is nothing but a no talent brat who stirs up negative media coverage. Dump him. Now.

Josh Gordon: "Tell me more about these weed routes you speak of."

Maybe last year at draft time, Farmer's talk about wanting Derek Carr wasn't all about smoke and mirrors for the draft but his way of throwing out there that Carr was his guy and that he already knew Haslam wanted and was mandating that the Browns take JM. This is Haslam buying into the hype not talent. He's a business guy, and imo is more about someone who can talk the talk and only needs to back it up with dollars in haslam's pocket

I would want to walk as well if I was supposed to have input on a drafted (hired) employee that was to run my system but was told that they were just going to bring in a politician/ publicity type (basically what this boiled down to)that didn't have the skillset to do what I was staking my career on.

We couldve had Carr, who wasn't perfect but I think JM will never succeed at the nfl level. He is like the NFL version of Peter McNeely

This article from Cleveland's favorite reporter offers a little more insight into whom Shanahan wanted the Browns to draft.



January 24, 2015 at 6:17 PM, updated January 24, 2015 at 9:48 PM

Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam will go offsite with top brass over next 3 days and the time is right:

Mary Kay Cabot

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns owner Jimmy Haslam will take his top club lieutenants offsite for the next three days to make sure everyone's pulling the rope in the same direction, and it couldn't come at a better time.

There's a perception in the league that the Browns are dysfunctional inside the walls of Berea, and it's time for Haslam to assemble his top brass and determine if it's true, or if they perhaps just to need air some things out and keep forging on.

The team-building session over the next three days will include Haslam, team president Alec Scheiner, general manager Ray Farmer, coach Mike Pettine and chief negotiator Sashi Brown.

"(We're) going off for three days to do a little strategic planning session and I assure you we'll work very hard, we'll work very close together,'' said Haslam at Thursday's Greater Cleveland Sports Awards. "Do we have disagreements? Of course. But I would venture to say that wherever you all work there's disagreements every day, too. We work together extremely well.

"It's also important to remember we've only been together this group, the five of us, for a little bit less than a year. And it takes time to build the team and we're learning each other, we're learning how to work together with each other and we've got a really good group that we're really excited about. We're going to be together Sunday, Monday and Tuesday and I'm personally really looking forward to that session.''

The problem is, the current staff -- including many with strong personalities -- were all hired by former Browns CEO Joe Banner, and it was up to him to get them working in synch. But when Banner was fired last February, the leaders all had to report to Haslam, who had never run a football team before. What's more, Haslam was heavily embroiled in the Pilot Flying J truck rebate scandal at the time, and also wasn't in Berea full-time.

Therefore, just a couple of weeks before the NFL Combine, a month before free agency and about three months before the draft, Farmer was thrust into the role of general manager in one of the most important off seasons in the history of the club. Farmer, viewed by some in the league as a rising star on the personnel side, was supposed to be groomed for such a big job over time.

Instead, he found himself with more than $50 million to spend in free agency, and 10 draft picks, including two in the first round just weeks into his big promotion.

Early on in the offseason, the Browns were poised to draft Teddy Bridgewater with their second pick in the first round, the No. 26 overall. The club had commissioned a study on the available quarterbacks, and the data told them that Bridgewater was the man. There wasn't much sentiment in the building at that time for drafting Manziel, and a number of staff members in the building were against it. One of those was offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, a source said, but he wasn't in favor of Bridgewater either.

Somewhere between the time Banner and Lombardi were fired on Feb. 11 and the draft May 8, the sentiment shifted to drafting Johnny Manziel. Even some of Farmer's longtime colleagues in the NFL were surpised by the move, which included a trade up from No. 26 to No. 22.

As the season went along, it became evident that the Browns had acquired some major headaches with their first-round picks, Manziel and No. 8 overall pick Justin Gilbert, who never cracked the starting lineup and played sparingly.

Meanwhile, first-time head coach Pettine had to manage Manziel's negative off-the-field shenanigans and the constant tardiness and attitude problems of Gilbert. Josh Gordon, often late and lackadaisical, became one of the "Juvenile J's" when he rejoined the team with six games remaining.

Winning masked some of the issues in Berea, but the five-game losing streak at the end of the season brought things to a head. By the end of the season, Shanahan had grown weary of friction between some on the coaching staff and the personnel side and asked to be released from the last two years of his contract.

Among other things, he was miffed about comments about playcalls texted from a high-level member of the personnel staff to the sidelines. The texts, which are against the NFL's electronic-device policy, are currently under investigation by the NFL.

One league source, however, said that Shanahan overstated the "friction'' angle and that the young coordinator wanted out because he felt staying here would be career suicide. The Browns admittedly have no idea who their quarterback is going to be in 2015, and the schedule is brutal. The source said Shanahan feared the staff might get wiped out after next season if the Browns don't win.

In addition to reports of improper texts from the press level, espncleveland.com reported shortly thereafter that two non-football Browns employees texted "disparaging remarks about coaching decisions, play-calls and use of players to each other during games. ....(they) were team employees who exercised bad judgment. When coaches became aware of what was going on, they were understandably put off and brought it to the attention of GM Ray Farmer.''

Over the past week, Farmer and Pettine have both described reports of "friction'' between the coaching staff and personnel department as hyperbole.

"I'd prefer to term that a little more of a 'healthy debate' than anything else,'' said Pettine at offensive coordinator John DeFilippo's introductory press conference Thursday. "I think that's very overblown. I think a lot of it is natural. You have coaching and personnel that both have their ideas on players....That's just inherent with it.''

Word in league circles is that Pettine and Farmer often butt heads, but Pettine explained that not always seeing eye-to-eye is the nature of the beast.

"I would never at any point term my relationship with Ray as anything other than a great working relationship,'' said Pettine. "If we agreed on everything, that would be an issue. That's just not going to happen.

"To me, it's all for the same cause, for the same purpose. We want the Cleveland Browns to win. That's the bottom line. Ray is very passionate about this team and wants to build the best roster that he can possibly build, and sometimes those things happen.

"I feel great about where we are. It just seems to be that time of the year when people want to look at us and talk about how dysfunctional we are. Let that talk go because it's on the outside. I know on the inside what we're building, and I feel even better now. I feel rejuvenated now. I feel that we're headed down the right path."

Shanahan's departure brought whispers of discord inside the building to the forefront, and Haslam appears to be acknowledging and addressing it. Roles need to be defined, clarified and possibly revised. The air needs to be cleared and the healthy debate needs to continue.

Once again, it's a pivotal offseason for the club. The Browns need to find a quarterback and they need to nail their two picks in the first round. They need to figure out what to do with problem players such as Manziel, Gilbert and Gordon.

It's time to make sure everyone's pulling the rope in the same direction before they hurt themselves with it.


Article

well, someone is falling on the sword to protect haslam. Even though hindsight is 20/20 it sounds like most people wanted nothing to do with him.
Short-sighted draft imo valuing immediate dollar signs and media coverage over someone who we could be winning with and building around. The dollars will come tenfold if the browns ever win anything but we care more about drafting frye, quinn and manziel types. (either feel good hometown boys or hypes and reaches) Our front office is and has been as bad as washington where one party smears the other and each new person sets the franchise back just bc they want to completely do it their way.

(I don't want to see it happen, but...)Farmer and Pettine will prob be out after the '15 season, so this draft will probably be a sell out like the trich weeden draft. Hopefully someone tells JimmyH to stay the hell out of the war room

I don't even see anyone in this draft that we could pick that would be a "sell out" like Rich and Weeden were..

Hell the biggest sell out would be trading both firsts to move up and grab one of the two Top QBs.. And I think "most" people on here would be "ok" with that depending on the total price..

If we moved up and grabbed Winston, without touching anymore 1st besides 12 and 19? I'd call that a win.. and wouldn't be surprised if we contended for a playoff spot next year..

But unlike most, I don't see us as this talentless team with holes all over the place...

We need to do whatever we can this offseason, to find the best possible answer for next year, and going forward, for the QB position..

Once that is fixed, everything else will fall into place..

anyone who we reach on when we draft based on position of need first and perceived bpa 2nd.
Maybe Bryce Petty as qb and insert current hype name at wr or rb or te
Im sure theres a name for this strategy.
I agree though that we aren't actually that far off. a competent qb would do wonders, other than that we just need depth. This draft should be all about bpa

I think you're living in a pipedream, ThatGuy.

This team has all kinds of holes to fill and we need better football players as our substitutes/back-ups.

Pick a position in the trenches and tell me who the substitute/back-up player is for that guy where they aren't at least a full step back from the starter at the position? Make your own list. Every other position that you don't list is a hole.

If Cleveland and Indy swapped out QBs this passed season..

We would of still at least made the AFC Title game..

But no way does Indy win 7 games. They are far and away a worse support in cast.. Im not saying were perfect but..

Find the QB. And everything else works better..

Most teams can't even field a starting OL as good as ours, and you're worrying about backups?

Even most of the great teams today are made up of a bunch of average players with a few great ones mixed in. Take away Brady and Gronk from the Pats and what do you have? Take away Wilson and Lynch from the Seahawks offense, and what do you have left?

Great teams have a bunch of average type players, with a handful of difference makers mixed in. They have players that fit their schemes. They have consistency, so that veteran players know exactly how to prepare from year to year.

Great teams aren't somehow stacked from top to bottom, 1-53 with great players. They have difference makers at key positions, and solid players at most of the rest. The also have experience winning together. They have been through rough times, and have come through. That experience is crucial to a winning team.

I look at this team, and we have a great OL. LT to RT, this OL is stacked. Do we have great players sitting on the bench? Of course not. How many teams that cannot come close to matching our starters do?

What weapons on offense do we have? We have a pair of promising RB, and a pair of promising WR. We have a top TE who has had injury issues. We have a great WR who cannot keep his head on straight. We have some very good to great players on offense. Put a good QB on this team, and this offense would be very good. Add a poor QNB, and it will be a poor offense.

On defense, we have talent. We have Paul Kruger, who turned into a top pass rusher last year, and who showed that he could be a complete OLB the year before. We have Karlos Dansby, who really got jobbed out of a Pro Bowl berth, although he did get hurt late. Our secondary has great and very good players throughout, from Haden and Gipson, to Whitner and Skrine, to Williams. (and Desir appeared to come on late as well) This team has talent. We need another pass rusher or 2, and a QB. Add those and this team would be, at the very least, a playoff team.

Good reading, but you can "cherry-pick" any point of view that you wish from it...

I think it would have to be a megadeal such as the what the Saints gave up to get Ricky in 1999.

Even then, with so many QB starved teams ahead of us, nobody is going to take that chance to pass up on a Top QB.

Now, here is an interesting thought. What happens if both drop to us? Again, with so many QB starved teams, how could that even happen. But if it did, what's that say about Mariota and Winston if 10+ teams pass on them?

again, I don't expect that to happen. one or both will get picked before we pick.

I'm not now, nor have I ever been a fan of the "megadeal".

I can give you three reasons:

1. Minnisota: gave up a ton for Hershel Walker and what did that net them?

2. Saints gave up a ton for Ricky Williams and what did that net them?

3. Washington gave up a ton for RGIII and what did that net them? One solid rookie season and then bubkiss. I'm not even sure that RGIII can withstand the pressure in the NFL.

In other words, we have Manziel, Shaw and ? (could be Hoyer or ?)

Farmer and Haslam forced this move on the Browns. It was a stupid move and now they are covering their meddlesome butts.

The one good thing is that perhaps Haslam realizes there is an issue [unlike most of you] and is trying to address it. Or, he could just be making sure everyone is doing exactly what he says and aren't me people because they voice displeasure when stupid moves are made.

Most of us have worked for the two types of bosses. The first boss values your opinions and creativity as long as you get the job done. The second boss doesn't care how productive you have been because he is the genius and you better do things his way.

LOL.....I knew the homers would ignore this article. It doesn't fit in w/their manipulation of what happened, but a fairy tale report about Shanny complaining about cafeteria food in Washington is gospel.

tab, you should read Milk's article before you start making fun of Pit.

Indeed, we need to keep an open mind and that what we perceive may not be in fact, actually what happened.
As a side note: If Shanahan didn't want Johnny nor Teddy, who did he want as his QB? We may never know...

What happens if both drop to us

i've said it before. if either one drops to around #8 i see us making a move. i don't however see us in a bidding war for the 1st picks.

Surprisingly, there has not been as yet, much comment on this article. Speaking only for myself, I have not ignored this article and find that it NOT damning to our current FO. As I posted previously, people can "cherry-pick" information (or speculation) from this article to support whatever POV they wish. And yes, I am a "homer"...proud of it and not likely to change.

Except for Banner was here.

And you certainly are right about the cherry-picking. You are all doing a great job of it.

At this point, there's really no point discussing what went down. we have a new OC, shanny isn't coming back, and we got 3 knuckleheads we have to hope finally GET it this off season.

so far so good.

I thought it was a well balanced article, although I don't believe MKC actually knows anything about this team for sure. A lot of speculation and just connecting the dots.

Does anyone else find it interesting that two non-football people were texting bad things about the Browns to each other on their personal phones, but the Browns found out about it? How did the Browns find out about that? I think one of those people was Scheiner.

I feel bad for Pettine. He straight up seems like a competent, well intentioned coach who is being forced to hold this team together in the media. He is carrying Haslam and Farmer on his shoulders. They have put him in a terrible position time after time after time. He's the freaking coach who has a gazillion things to worry about that shouldn't include holding the FO together. Although I don't think he and Shanny saw eye to eye, Pettine still approached the situation maturely as he had done all season. He had every intention of retaining Shanny. He didn't let his ego get in the way. Guy has been acting like a true leader since he got here. Haslam and Farmer, who acts like anything but a leader, need to step it up.

I don't think there was a rift between Pettine and Shanny. The rift was between Shanny and the FO.

I agree w/you that Pettine has been put in very difficult circumstances and he is the one guy trying to hold it altogether. He's a rookie head coach and he is having to be the glue that keeps all the egos from splintering into a million pieces.

I think there is a real problem at the top w/Haslam and Farmer. It's going to be tough for Pettine going forward. I hope he can weather the storm. I like the guy and think he is doing a nice job.

If we get rid of Pettine after next season, even if we have double digit losses, I will no longer follow this team.

Yes, because we saw how the team performed when one cog went out and the replacement cog didn't quite fit right.



I don't even know how to respond to this one.



Great teams get good players at all 53 roster spots.



Which is mostly what I've been saying, although I don't think you need 'difference makers'. I'm not sure what that even means. Difference makers like David Tyree?

All a team needs is consistently good fundamental football. Cut down on bad plays (on offense or defense) and penalties and any team can win.



I would agree that team chemistry is a good thing, but it's not the only thing. It's little different than making adjustments to make a new player comfortable with his teammates and familiarity with playing style. That doesn't take very long. That's why they have training camps and preseason games.



Ones that win with consistent play. And I'm not as sure as you are that we have a great OL. Thomas is losing a bit of his step, Schwartz is hideous and Greco is back-up quality. You shouldn't lose too much plugging him into fill a need, but you can get an upgrade to his play in the draft.



We do have two nice young RBs. We have a couple of good-quality undersized WRs and a chains mover with Miles Austin (who's about to be a FA). We have two other TEs that are very nice weapons.



I suspect that you mean Josh Gordon, but he can't be counted on and is as disruptive in the locker room as he has the potential to be on the field. Not good.



Put an effective QB on the field and the team can win - as long as you don't have injuries and a drop off in talent with the substitutions.



I don't disagree with any of this really, but you have to look at quality replacements. We had guys step up big time on defense, from Tashaun Gipson to K'Waun and even Scott Solomon at the end.



That's why you look to get rid of the dead weight and put football players at every roster spot.

For example, Billy Cundiff was cut because he missed CRITICAL kicks. He cost the Browns a couple of games (Indy, Baltimore [1st game]) and his miscues almost cost the Browns several more games. Hartley did well enough after replacing Cundiff but we could use an upgrade there and at punter too.

There are a few posts that I absolutely agree with on this thread .... but this paragraph here hits it squarely on the head for me. I agree 100%. Haslam I might give more of a pass on (except for the drafting of JF) - I think he's in Berea one day a week and I don't see him meddling like a Jerry Jones or a Dan Snyder (Jerry might not be a good example since he's officially part of the FO) .... Yes he had wholesale changes after one year, but given the disfunction last year compared to what looked like a well coached team this year, I'd say/hope that he was convinced Chud wasn't a leader and made a brave decision knowing the team would get ridiculed in the media for it ...

Good News - I have put Vers on ignore.
Bad News - until I log in I can still see his posts. I guess he did warm my heart a little when he called everyone else idiots. Got to love his strictly football, non personal debates.

Me too! About 3 minutes ago.

i know vers can be over the top sometimes but come on with that ignore stuff...