DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns reach out to Brian Hoyer's camp about extension

And no matter how good your tools are, they are useless if the rest of the team doesn't want to play with the guy, which is the case here with Manziel.

I said in another thread that I can't go so far as to claim Hoyer is a guy you can build a franchise around, but he is a guy you can build a TEAM around. Hoyer may have some limitations, but the things he does bring to the table I think makes him EXACTLY the kind of player Pettine wants on this team.

Well if you stop asking Hoyer to throw 40 yards down the field then you would see him do a lot better. Shanny was getting terrible by the end of the season. Run Run throw 30 plus yards with a weak armed QB. Yep Shanny is brilliant.

speaking of Hoyer throwing... Is it just me or was it that ever since the Bengals game he kept trying to rifle his passes? It made sense and worked for that game, but I just remember asking myself in the other games why he kept trying to throw it so hard??

I thought the opposite. After the Cinci game he seemed to not be able to put any zip on the ball, which made me wonder if he hurt his arm in that cinci game.

Okay, we need a 3rd dawgtalker to chime in and break the tie

IMO, three things contributed Hoyer's post-Cinci meltdown:

1. Alex Mack's season-ending injury, and the resulting breakdown in pass-protection - especially up the middle. Our running attack also took a step back because of this. A less than effective run game, along with degraded pass protection spells t-r-o-u-b-l-e for any QB.

2. The return of Josh Gordon messed up the building chemistry between Hoyer and his band of overachieving WR's. We stopped seeing the ball being spread around to Austin, Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, and the TE's. In addition, Gordon's half-assed execution and effort went a long way in contributing to Hoyer's regression. Sometimes he wasn't where he was supposed to be, some routes he quit on, and several times he failed to fight for the ball or at least "defend" against the interception.

3. Hoyer's mechanics and footwork got really sloppy, He started throwing off his back foot almost all the time, like he didn't want to try stepping into his throws. Maybe he felt the pocket wasn't sufficiently secure to step up into, I don't know. On the rollouts that worked well early in the season, he stopped setting his feet make the throw. Instead, his throws were "all arm", like darts.

I wondered if BH was told to get it to Gordon. Lazy routes, late to look for the ball, miserable routes at times.

Hoyer also seemed like in addition to throwing off the wrong leg he was also lofting the ball with high release later in the season. Something went bad and got worse.

Ideally, you'd have a QB coach that might keep an eye on his QBs' mechanics and help them work through it when they backslide. Judging the mechanics of Hoyer and Manziel, we didn't. I'm not sure exactly what it was Dowell Loggains did for the Browns besides text-caddy. He sure didn't coach the QBs from what I could see.

Loggains is the Bears problem now, they just hired him as their QB coach.

That's going to suck for the Bears. LOL

Maybe Cutler can teach him something about coaching QBs.

The guy is actually respected in league circles. He had the reputation before he came to Cleveland.

At first I thought about contacting you privately because I don't want the asking of these questions to be interpreted as calling you out. I just want to know how you arrive at this particular theory.

You suggest that Haslam and Farmer want Manziel as the starter and will manipulate the roster to ensure that happens. You suggest this in the face of objectively poor, under prepared, play on the part of Manziel that impedes the teams ability to win. What benefit does the organization or specifically Haslam and Farmer receive from that? It just further erodes the organization overall contributing to a divide between the execs and the football people.

Haslam and Farmer, are in a position to do what they wish and do so blatantly. They don't have to be cute or conspiratorial about it. And why be conspiratorial if the agenda, you Mac, attribute to them is what they truly believe is the right thing to do? Particularly Ray Farmer whose story is well documented. He is not just a suit. His career path from player to executive to his present position has undoubtedly informed him on front office politics and how they can be harmful to a teams success. I don't think he needs to look back much further than the short-lived Banner/Lombardi regime for that.

I'd be interested in the specifics of your theory.

Signing Hoyer makes the most sense for CONTINUITY sake. You know, that big word Haslam has been spouting and most of us have been begging for? The guy should serve as the bridge to the next QB (who may or may not be on our roster currently). Don't back up the Brinks truck for him but give him some incentives.

In short:

1. Name him the starter
2. Find a quality FA veteran to help BOTH Hoyer and Shaw (or draftee)
3. Get rid of JJO since he is nothing but a negative distraction

This should be a good start going into the draft and camp.

The only thing I would add is that NFL defenses now had enough film on him to scheme to his weaknesses. It will be up to him to learn how to combat back or improve in the areas that will force defenses to change again how they scheme him

I still think enough of Hoyer and his record as our starter to say sign him to a medium deal if possible or just let him try to earn incentives.
Tell him he is the starter barring a melt-down.

As for the others, I like DJ's idea of signing Matt Moore as backup; let Shaw and JM and camp bodies battle it out for 3rd and ps

If Manziel still can't figure it out, cut him. It will send a message as well that we're not going to deal with it.

Brian Hoyer’s agent says Browns have expressed interest in re-signing his client, who’s seeking legitimate chance to compete for starting job

By Nate Ulrich
Akron Beacon Journal
January 24, 2015

The Browns recently reached out to quarterback Brian Hoyer’s camp and expressed interest in re-signing him, but the level of commitment the team envisions has yet to be discussed.

“We never got to the numbers part,” Joe Linta, Hoyer’s agent, said Saturday night during a phone interview. “They called and said they were interested in bringing him back.”

A North Olmsted native, Hoyer — scheduled to become an unresticted free agent on March 10 — repeatedly said last season he would love to stay with his hometown team, but he also made it clear he wants to play. He is expected to meet with coach Mike Pettine, General Manager Ray Farmer and offensive coordinator John DeFilippo soon. If he likes what he hears, he’ll give Linta the green light to attempt to engage the Browns in discussions about a new deal.

Linta said Hoyer, 29, doesn’t need to be promised anything other than a legitimate chance to compete for a starting job. He’s 10-7 as an NFL starter, including 10-6 with the Browns.

“I think the only thing that would make him not [want to] come back is if they said [Johnny] Manziel or whoever we take in the draft or whoever we sign in free agency is going to be the starter and you will only be the backup,” Linta said. “I think that would probably drive him away a little bit.

“If Pettine said, ‘Hey, it’s going to be an open competition again between you and Johnny,’ great, let’s go. ... [Hoyer] wants to play. The kid wants to have an opportunity to compete and play.”

If Hoyer believes he’s on the same page with Pettine, Farmer and DeFilippo and the Browns want to move forward with contract talks, Linta said he assumes the two sides would sit down for negotiations during the NFL Scouting Combine, which will run Feb. 17-23 in Indianapolis.

Coming off a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee last season, Hoyer guided the Browns to a record of 6-3 and first place in the AFC North despite three Pro Bowlers — center Alex Mack, tight end Jordan Cameron and wide receiver Josh Gordon — missing significant time. But Hoyer threw eight interceptions and just one touchdown pass in the next four games as he and the Browns fell to 7-6.

The Browns responded by benching Hoyer and summoning Manziel. The decision backfired because Manziel, the 22nd overall pick in last year’s draft, struggled mightily and led the Browns to just three points in six quarters as a starter.

“There’s no hard feelings,” Linta said. “Business is business. They had to see what they had to see, and they saw it.”


http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/brian-...ng-job-1.561189

lol they sure did. They saw both hoyer and manziel sucked down the stretch.

Linta said Hoyer, 29, doesn’t need to be promised anything other than a legitimate chance to compete for a starting job

that's all i need to hear from him. no BS talk about wanting huge starting money, just a legit chance to play.
whoever we get for QB coach can work on his fundamentals along with a full deck of starters and i know he can play as well if not better than the start of last year.
no matter what anybody says, i believe we can win with this young man.

And nothing about If Johnny is here, I won't come back!

Remember when the media portrayed it that way?

There is a lot of discussion about bringing in guys like Bradford, Manning, Mallett, Locker, Ponder, Moore, Cutler, etc.......but there are various reasons why all of those guys are either a huge long shot at even being available or really aren't an upgrade to what we have.

We need to consider that this offense played most of the season w/out three guys who made the Pro Bowl the previous year.

We should probably consider that Hoyer looked decent last year and the first half of this year.

We need to consider that his mechanics broke down later in the year and that he began throwing off his back foot.

Look, the Browns are probably going to give Manziel a shot. Most of you want to make Shanny the villain and the FO the heroes, but there is almost certainly truth to Shanny being upset about management wanting JM to play. He is going to get a shot to start, unless he continues to humiliate himself and the Browns publically.

I think it would be extremely dangerous to get to the draft with only Manziel and Shaw [who is not going to make it in the NFL] on your roster because Hoyer has signed somewhere else.

Signing Hoyer gives you some insurance. It gives you a bit of stability. It would be foolish to think that Manziel is indeed going to be a good qb or that they can find a guy in the draft or that they pick-up a vet later on to start 16 games.

If hoyer has no intentions of resigning with us, it is in his best interest to say he is in talks with the Browns. The browns want me bad but we just couldnt agree to numbers, creates more demand for his skill set.

If the Browns dont want Hoyer, its in their best interest to say they are interested and in talks with Hoyer. Hoyer has a lot of fans and its just much easier to swallow we tried to sign him but couldnt come to terms than is to say, we dont want him.

I dont think Farmer wants Hoyer back at all. I am not sure about Pettine but i would give it 5% chance of Hoyer resigning here.

sigining Hoyer and giving him an honest opportunity to start is a must.

The FA alternatives are suspect and best and all bring with them some holes in ability , price etc. .

The draft , unless by some miracle of fate offers at best another project QB from round 3 or worse.

The wildcard continues to be JM, Until (if) he can pull his head out of his asre, put in the work, and actually become a viable starter in the NFL, then Hoyer remains our best option.

Hoyer is not great but teams have won with worse QB play than what we saw his first 10 games, ( the last four.... eh not so much).

I am not off the JM bandwagon yet, but I got one boot dragging and am looking for a soft spot to land.

I dont think Farmer wants Hoyer back at all

what makes you feel that way?
i can understand if you said that he wants manziel to be the man, but what has hoyer done to make him not want him here at all? i mean we need three QB's going into the season and keeping brian would not disrupt the continuity everyone wants around here.

We need to consider that this offense played most of the season w/out three guys who made the Pro Bowl the previous year.

We should probably consider that Hoyer looked decent last year and the first half of this year.

We need to consider that his mechanics broke down later in the year and that he began throwing off his back foot.

THANK YOU
that sounds so much better than well he just sucks.

If they do want to sign him, where would / should the numbers be? If you look at QB salaries, I think Hoyer should be slotted among the likes of Matt Cassel, Chad Henne, Kyle Orton, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc. That would put him in the $4-5M area per year.
http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/
Sweeten it with incentives like % of snaps taken (80%), wins (9), making the playoffs, winning a playoff game, making the Pro Bowl, winning the Super Bowl (LOL), and so on. Let the incentives get him in the $10-12M area code (if he reaches all of them).

Then why did the Browns reach out to Hoyers agent about a contract?

That quote could be used to describe anyone on the Browns staff, including Pettine and Farmer.

Brian Hoyer open to Browns return if he can compete for starting job

Posted by Josh Alper on January 25, 2015, 9:05 AM EST

link

When the Browns benched Brian Hoyer in favor of Johnny Manziel late in the regular season, it seemed as if they would be moving on from Hoyer when he became a free agent.

Manziel fizzled, though, and there’s nothing close to certainty that he’ll be the starter when the Browns take the field to start the 2015 season. As a result, Hoyer’s not closing the door on a return to the team. His agent Joe Linta said that he’s heard interest, but no numbers, from the Browns in a return and indicated his client has no hard feelings about how things played out in 2014. Linta also outlined the scenario that would keep Cleveland as an option for Hoyer.

“I think the only thing that would make him not [want to] come back is if they said Manziel or whoever we take in the draft or whoever we sign in free agency is going to be the starter and you will only be the backup,” Linta said. “I think that would probably drive him away a little bit. If [coach Mike] Pettine said, ‘Hey, it’s going to be an open competition again between you and Johnny,’ great, let’s go. … [Hoyer] wants to play. The kid wants to have an opportunity to compete and play.”

Linta said Hoyer anticipates meeting with Pettine and others from the team soon to discuss their plans and that negotiations would pick up at next month’s scouting combine if everyone is on the same page.

So? What's your point?

I don't think that Farmer is really going to play much part in it except making offers to Hoyer's agent.

The people that will make the decision on whether to seek re-signing him will be Mike Pettine and John DeFilippo.

I know that the coaches are expected to produce with whatever the GM gives them to work with, but that's simply not how front offices work. They do communicate with the coaches about personnel evaluations and changes.

You were attempting to hold Loggains in some high regard to support your attack on the franchise as being dysfunctional. He failed here, but you want people to know he was highly thought of even though he failed - as if that points to some incompetence by the rest of the leaders of this team. I think Pettine and Farmer deserve the same consideration. Even if you think they are failing, they were highly thought of as well.

You are reading way too much into it.

Loggains was the only one getting ripped by other posters. Why should I defend guys who are not getting ripped? Loggains does have a pretty impressive background and I thought that the posters who are assuming he is incompetent needed to be corrected. Simple as that.

I thought you were just talking about the coaches. I respect them and I really like Pettine.

The only thing I will add is that Farmer did not have any experience w/the draft. People might have respected him, but not for his draft day prowess. And his first go-around looks lame.

A couple of comments here.....

You mention that Hoyer was missing 3 Pro Bowl players last year. While this is certainly true the other truth is that he'll most likely be missing 2 of them in 2015 because, in my opinion, Cameron and Gordon will probably be gone by training camp. So implying he'll automatically somehow be better in 2015 is a leap of faith, at best.

After reading quite a few of the posts on here I've come to the conclusion that the only person who is pushing the Shanahan = villain, FO = heroes scenario, is you. Mainly just so you can argue against it. Have fun with that. At this point in time the jury is out on last year's draft as well as the abilities of the coaching staff. You know that as well as anybody. Shanahan left because he wanted to. The reason doesn't really matter because we all know, deep down, that he wasn't gonna be here more than 2 years anyway.

Hoyer obviously doesn't want to be here if Manziel is here. I can't say I blame him given the circus that follows Johnny around but let's call a spade a spade....Hoyer did not perform well when he thought Johnny was breathing down his neck early on. Once he saw that Johnny wasn't going to/couldn't take his job he loosened up and played as well as he was capable of. Very well, in fact, for at least half the season. But then his flaws started to make a difference in his results. And he didn't have the ability to overcome those flaws. To think those flaws will miraculously go away is wishful thinking at best.

It would not bother me if we signed Hoyer. But I don't think it will happen mainly because neither side really wants that to happen.

As much as I like Vers and respect his opinion, I have to agree with this.

Daman teams and players do this all the time. Both sides talk that they are in negotations yet a year later we here that no numbers were ever exchanged. Most recent was phil dawson.

The more I think about Hoyer.. The more I'm ok with him not coming back..

Can he improve on what he's done? Probably..

He still comes across as a guy who's only somewhat productive when everything is working perfectly..

There has to be a great running game, WRs have to be wide open.. Yes he's had drives at the end of games where he's made good throws.. But most of his big plays come from guys being wide open (and then having to wait for the ball)

If our plan is just another stop gap year, sure I guess bring him back.. But IMO if you're looking for a guy for the forseeable future that can lead this team to a championship.. I don't think it's him.