DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Schaffer trade????????????

Quote:

---

I hate the idea of trading Shaffer. And frankly, I think it's going to take alot for the Giants to get him. If we trade Shaffer the right side of the line begins to look much weaker, and in fact worse than last year and IMO, if Phil were seriously considering trading him, we would've drafted a guard at some point.

---

we've had some folks with insider info say that he was asking for help from druzzi on almost every play

I know tuck is getting long in the tooth, but if shaffer needs guard help on most plays, how good is he?

Quote:

---

The Cleveland Browns and New York Giants have reportedly been in contact about a potential trade of LT Kevin Shaffer to the Giants, according to Ken Palmer of TheGiantsInsider at Scout.com. The Giants have confirmed that there have been discussions, according to Palmer.

---

So, a writer for Scouts.com is reporting that a writer for Scouts.com is reporting confirmation from the Giants that there was a discussion about Shaffer.

At least they had the foresight to think about the monetary implications for teh Browns doing this.

I would think their 1st rounder next year should do it

Quote:

---

Where there's smoke, there is usually fire.

---

Do you know how many times I've heard that in the past two months? Only to find it was some stoner burning a fatty in the bathroom?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Where there's smoke, there is usually fire.

---

Do you know how many times I've heard that in the past two months? Only to find it was some stoner burning a fatty in the bathroom?

---

Thanks PIT I needed a good laugh...before I went to bed...by the way have you been to sleep in the last 48 hrs

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I hate the idea of trading Shaffer. And frankly, I think it's going to take alot for the Giants to get him. If we trade Shaffer the right side of the line begins to look much weaker, and in fact worse than last year and IMO, if Phil were seriously considering trading him, we would've drafted a guard at some point.

---

we've had some folks with insider info say that he was asking for help from druzzi on almost every play

I know tuck is getting long in the tooth, but if shaffer needs guard help on most plays, how good is he?

---

Quote:

---

Not calling you out here, but how much about offensive line play do you know? Alot, and i mean, ALOT of the plays depend on the interaction of either the tackle-guard or guard-center. One player is dependent upon the other to help out with combo blocks on run plays, stunts, loops, and blitzes on others.

---

no problem, I don't have a problem with you questioning me, my ego is small

we have some folks here with good inside info that stated he needed lots of help, not just on blitzes, but on just about every play. druzzi was bad enough on his own assignment, he had to help cover shaffer's ass.

just my $.02. if my LT who just got a big contract needed that much help i'd be pissed. druzzi wasn't good, but he gave his all every play.

doesn't matter when it comes down to it, I guess. we have joe over there now, who can be on an island by himself, with a really good LG next to him.

Quote:

---

there has been contact between the Browns and Giants,

---

Quote:

---

no problem, I don't have a problem with you questioning me, my ego is small

---

Quote:

---

doesn't matter when it comes down to it, I guess. we have joe over there now, who can be on an island by himself, with a really good LG next to him.

---

Quote:

---

Besides draft picks, what do they even have that we would want?

---

Quote:

---

Besides draft picks, what do they even have that we would want?

---

IMO it would take either Kareem McKenzie or Chris Snee. Snee is a pretty good, young RG who plays with a nasty demeanor and really is a player I like. He is however the father to Coughlin's grandchild so I doubt he'd be willing to trade him.

McKenzie is a decent RT, possibly on the same level as Shaffer but he's a year older and frankly wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to justify the cap hit.

Other than that you do have Brandon Jacobs, who i watched play alot at SIU (used to live in the area) and he was dominant at times, granted it was I-AA. IMO he may never be an every down back due to his height and the fact that he runs pretty tall for it (he's 6'4) but i could be wrong.

They did draft Jay Alford





oh....and they've got Jonathan Dunn

Quote:

---

IMO Shaffer's play was better than some will give him credit for on the board. I may get crucified for that but frankly, I don't care.

---

Good, because Shaffer is a horrid left tackle. He has neither the feet nor the technique to ever be any good there, and the moment we kick him out of the left side of the line is the moment when we can become an elite offensive unit.

Savage knew that Shaffer was only holding the fort until we could find a REAL left tackle. Drafting Thomas is proof of it.

Necktie is a complete stiff as a left tackle and the only hope of salvaging his contract is to move him to the other side of the line, either as a tackle or a guard.

Hey, let me guess....I bet you thought Shelton was a pretty decent left tackle too

Quote:

---

Hey, let me guess....I bet you thought Shelton was a pretty decent left tackle too

---

That was a low blow and completely uncalled for. You should be suspended for such a comment.































Yes I saw the smilie.

Quote:

---

I would take Coefield and not look back.

---

Of course You would. You don't work for the Giants.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

IMO Shaffer's play was better than some will give him credit for on the board. I may get crucified for that but frankly, I don't care.

---

Good, because Shaffer is a horrid left tackle. He has neither the feet nor the technique to ever be any good there, and the moment we kick him out of the left side of the line is the moment when we can become an elite offensive unit.

Savage knew that Shaffer was only holding the fort until we could find a REAL left tackle. Drafting Thomas is proof of it.

Necktie is a complete stiff as a left tackle and the only hope of salvaging his contract is to move him to the other side of the line, either as a tackle or a guard.

Hey, let me guess....I bet you thought Shelton was a pretty decent left tackle too

---

that last part was a little low, but i can take it and no, Shelton was not a very good LT and Shaffer's play was much better IMO. That being said, his play was nothing more than average, but many posters such as yourself view him as horrid.

Also notice that i said this past year was the first his play ever took a step back, and that was because it was the first time he'd been asked to guard a QB's blind side. He would be much better off on the right side, and i think he will be there considering Thomas' superior ability.

That being said I still think he played decent last year, considering he was playing next to a cow and we had no line continuity, no running game, and teams were able to pin their ears back and just come after us.

As far as Savage getting him to merely "hold down the fort until a real LT came along," that argument holds no water with me. You don't sign a player to the contract that he did to merely serve as a stopgap for a different player.

Let me guess, Savage knew that Bentley was only holding the fort until we could find a REAL center. Getting Hank was proof of it.

Quote:

---

As far as Savage getting him to merely "hold down the fort until a real LT came along," that argument holds no water with me. You don't sign a player to the contract that he did to merely serve as a stopgap for a different player.

---

If you don't believe that then you are doubting Savage's word. That might be what you meant and my advice is to tread lightly. Seems to be a little unhealthy right now to doubt anything Savage does.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

As far as Savage getting him to merely "hold down the fort until a real LT came along," that argument holds no water with me. You don't sign a player to the contract that he did to merely serve as a stopgap for a different player.

---

If you don't believe that then you are doubting Savage's word. That might be what you meant and my advice is to tread lightly. Seems to be a little unhealthy right now to doubt anything Savage does.

---

Quote:

---

in this case though, there is so little that can even be construed as real information that the most likely scenario is that the entire conversation was like this:

Giants: Heya Phil... saw ya got a shiny new LT, got any plans or thoughts on moving your old one?

Phil: Hey, we're keeping him.

Giants: Oh, ok.. thanks anyway

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Where there's smoke, there is usually fire.

---

Do you know how many times I've heard that in the past two months? Only to find it was some stoner burning a fatty in the bathroom?

---

Quote:

---

IMO Shaffer's play was better than some will give him credit for on the board. I may get crucified for that but frankly, I don't care. It was his first year playing as a true LT in a right handed offense. We went up against some tenacious defenses in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, San Diego, etc. and the player Shaffer was dependent upon, his guard, was Joe Andruzzi. Who is a blue collar guy that i like, but one who has essentially been a cow on the offensive line the past couple years.

Shaffer was an undrafted guy who's play is better when he's not guarding a Quarterback's blind side. He said in an interview last year that he prefers to go against power guys, instead of the smaller, speed guys.

---

Well I know a little bit about OL play.


Shaffer? Shaffer doesn't posess and won't EVER posess BTW- the speed and footwork to take on speed rushers. He'll never be able to "play on an island" alone because of it.

You can spin that any way you like,but his skill set and speed make him being a legit. LT in the NFL impossible.Unless he can find another left handed QB team to play for.


That's WHY he doesn't like speed rushers. Because he lacks the ability to handle them WITHOUT help. Which Thomas CAN do. We used everything from TE's to RB's to help cover his ass on LOTS of occasions because of it.

See,that means you have to rob your offense of one of its weapons to cover Shaffers ass when your oponents are only rushing four guys.

Let's do the math here. They send FOUR and you need SIX to cover that? Guess what? That leaves them seven to cover your FIVE!


Once Thomas goes through a few "growing pains" that will no longer have to happen. That frees up another offensive target to be used as a weapon instead of a blocker. You can't do that with Shaffer manning that position.

Quote:

---

It would be a stupid move. We have no depth at tackle and even if Shaffer is extremely overpaid

---

Quote:

---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Where there's smoke, there is usually fire.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Do you know how many times I've heard that in the past two months? Only to find it was some stoner burning a fatty in the bathroom?

---

Stoner burning a fatty in the bathroom That cracks me up,,, Good one man,,, Good one

Rumor mill stuff,, I'll believe it if it happens,,, otherwise, I'm movin on past it!

Quote:

---

We just paid a top flight G over 49 mil So is a decent RT at 36 mil really so "overpaid" considering that?

---

Quote:

---

we've had some folks with insider info say that he was asking for help from druzzi on almost every play

I know tuck is getting long in the tooth, but if shaffer needs guard help on most plays, how good is he?



Not calling you out here, but how much about offensive line play do you know? Alot, and i mean, ALOT of the plays depend on the interaction of either the tackle-guard or guard-center. One player is dependent upon the other to help out with combo blocks on run plays, stunts, loops, and blitzes on others.

---

First of all, I am the one who said that Shaffer got into trouble w/his teammates because he was asking for help on almost every single play.

Secondly, you are absolutely correct in saying that almost every play [actually, leave out the almost] relies on offensive linemen working together, helping each other, passing guys off, doubling, etc. Hell, it's one of the reasons why O-line play is so bad in the NFL today.......the FA era has all but eliminated units sticking together for years. That continuity is huge. The Colts haven't had much turnover and the Chiefs kept their line together for a long time, but watch them now that they've lost a few guys. Sorry.........back to the point. You are right in what you said.

However, Shaffer was asking for help from Andruzzi, who has his own issues, on almost every pass play. This compromised the rest of the line. Do you remember how many inside blitzers came barreling up the gut last year? Hank, Joe, and even Coleman ended up taking a lot of the blame for these breakdowns...well, blame from the fans and media, when in reality, the breakdown began w/Shaffer. This did not go over well in the locker room

He also blocked down when Andruzzi already had the inside rusher and allowed the outside guy to come clean. It's one of the main reasons we ran so many Jumbo and tight formations w/two TEs and RBs staying into block. That severely limits your offense.

Allow me to project into the future. Getting Joe was huge for this offense. Yeah, he will struggle as a young LT. I can already hear the dumb fans and media now saying crap like Joe gave up more sacks than Shaffer did the year before...he's a bust. The reality of it though will be that Joe will enable this offense to actually run more pro set formations, just like a real NFL team. He will handle the outside pass rushers all on his own, allowing the LG to stay inside and help pick-up the late inside blitz. You have to remember the delayed inside blitz and how it killed us last year, right? Joe Thomas will make us a much better football team and most fans won't even know it, just as they didn't pick up on how bad Shaffer really was.

Quote:

---

IMO Shaffer's play was better than some will give him credit for on the board. I may get crucified for that but frankly, I don't care. It was his first year playing as a true LT in a right handed offense.

---

I won't crucify you as I feel you are entitled to your opinion and what you said is not fueled by agenda. You also made a great point about it being the first year as a LT in a right-handed offense. That is something we all should consider and frankly, I admit, that I have overlooked that at times.

Now.......I'm going to profile Shaffer a bit for you. Ain't asking you to agree, but digest it and tell me where I am wrong. I also want you to keep in mind about what I said about compromising his teammates.

Strengths: Shaffer is a strong guy and actually is a beast in the weight room. He has a very strong upper body and when he gets his hands inside on the defender, he can do a good job of neutralizing him. He has a pretty good hand punch. He doesn't get bull-rushed by RDEs too often

Weaknesses: Has terrible feet. Lacks the ability to slide outside on double moves. Once he commits inside, he can't move laterally in the other direction. He relies on his hands too much and doesn't take good angles to the rusher. The lack of lateral movement is the key there. He is not a good technician, instead relying on brute strength. He doesn't play w/a good knee bend and doesn't get his chest over his thighs. Plays too upright. This leads to him lunging, instead of being able to slide and stay in front of his man. Gets beat by double moves and speed rushers much too easily.

Summary: I feel he is better suited to the RT spot than LT. I do think he will struggle there too. While he is very strong, his lack of technique will put him in some bad positions and he will be steamrolled by some power rushers. However, if he gets his head out of his ass and listens to his coaches a bit more, thereby improving his technique, he could make the transfer from LT to RT. And the bottom line is..........the Browns will be a better team if he can do that. He is making big bucks.....and we need him to contribute.

Again.........I'm not asking you to agree w/me, but thanks for giving me the opportunity to actually talk some football. It's refreshing, because there isn't much of that going on. It's more like.........So, what do you think of Savage now? Or, For all you Quinn haters....

To the thread: I agree w/the majority here and doubt if this is a likely move. Just discussion between the two teams. NY needs a LT after releasing LP, and they probably called the Browns after Joe was drafted. I seriously doubt they would offer an offensive lineman in return or a high draft choice. Thus, I doubt anything would happen.

Quote:

---

Again.........I'm not asking you to agree w/me, but thanks for giving me the opportunity to actually talk some football. It's refreshing, because there isn't much of that going on. It's more like.........So, what do you think of Savage now? Or, For all you Quinn haters....

---

Quote:

---

IMO, our pass blocking problems were a bi-product of our inability to block for the run. Thomas will not address that problem alone. Too many 3rd and short downs had our RB getting hit in the backfield. Druzzi, Coleman, and even Fraley(on occasion) were straight-out beaten by "man over". Reuben being slow and the offense being predictable didn't help much either, I suppose, but our interior line and right side were horrible last year.

---

Quote:

---

Tucker is key unless Shaffer can be a better RT than expected. As far as I'm concerned, both of those right side positions are totally up in the air.

---

Quote:

---

that last part was a little low, but i can take it and no, Shelton was not a very good LT and Shaffer's play was much better IMO.

---

Oh Hell man, that's why I put a " " after the comment.

It's only a low-blow if I'm mean about it *L*

Quote:

---

As far as Savage getting him to merely "hold down the fort until a real LT came along," that argument holds no water with me. You don't sign a player to the contract that he did to merely serve as a stopgap for a different player.

---

Only one problem with that premise (ok, actually there's two)

1) Savage HIMSELF indicted Shaffer by saying he was the left tackle "for now" well after the fact.

2) A scan of Shaffer's contract shows that he wasn't paid that handsomely, and that the BACK END of his contract puts him right in line with RIGHT tackles as their pay projects in '08 and beyond.

I'll add a #3: I made it very clear he wasn't a left tackle when we signed him. You don't offer mediocre money to Shelton as a stopgag FIRST and THEN offer big money to someone like Shaffer. I stated he was here to buy time until we found a real player, and noted Tucker's age and fragility.

Common sense has to play a role at some point. You're entitle to your opinion, but it's wrong. If you need any more proof, just look at who we drafted. You don't take a left tackle at 3 if you allready have an even decent one.