DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Johnny Manziel Chronology with the Browns

He is not really that special, His ceiling is not nearly as high as Manziel's. Right now he is obviously better, Norv did a great job with him. I just don't see him becoming a top QB in this league.

Favre had a drinking problem as well, part of the reason the Falcons gave up on him. I wonder if they ever regretted shipping him to greenbay.

...and if there is even the most remote of chances that he needed a true 'wake-up call,' this fall from grace might be the perfect medicine.

Of his list of traits (not just the negative ones), competitiveness and ego were up near the top. Those traits could compel him the take the "I'll show you ***'s..." attitude- in which case, he might turn himself around. To my knowledge, he's never been seen as a 'loser' before... and this can't be siting very well with him- not if he has any pride at all.

Here's the thing about ego, though: sometimes it's artificially inflated from never having had to fight through adversity... in which case. the person could go either way. "First tests" have been known to make a person either sink or soar.

There was this kid, many years ago. Sat first chair in every group he ever tried out for. Cocky, self-assured, full of himself. He was getting ready to go to a high-end summer clinic for the first time, and was just like Manziel- gonna wreck the place, catch the Head Cello Teacher's eye, and stud out in front of all these international students. He was asked: "Do you think you're the best cellist of your age group that you know?"

"Yes."

"That's because you don't know anybody yet. It's easy when you're swimming in the pond; it's harder when you're with the sharks in the sea."

Kid came home from that clinic with his tail tucked. Made the top group, but sat dead freakkin' last. Wasn't on the practice squad, but basically played Special Teams, and sat the bench when the premiere Playaz got tapped for honors quartet recitals. Got ignored by the Big Teacher, and had to fight for legitimacy the whole time he was there. 3 long weeks of bottom-feeder status.

Best thing that ever happened to me. (That conversation was between Pops & me on the way there, btw.)

I took an 'Azz-Whoop du Royale' that summer... and it humbled me enough to actually start listening to my teacher. I buckled down, stopped 'getting by' on raw ability, and discovered how much more satisfying it was to EARN a leadership role than being a 'wiseass with potential.' I went back the next year, earned 4th seat in the top orch... and got to play in 3 honors quartet recitals with some of the kids who barely remembered me from the year before. Total turnaround.

I don't think Johnny Manziel has had his parallel 'azzwhhop moment' until now... and that's a shame. My hard-knock lesson came when I was 14... and it wasn't the last of such lessons. Most of my lessons were a bit more private, too: me and a handful of other musicians. Johnny's young azz had to get schooled in front of 70,000 people- and countless others watching on TV.

uh.... ouch. That's gotta hurt, yo.

___________

Here's the deal, as I see it: Everybody's got to get an 'Azz-Whoop du Royale' in their lives- or they haven't really lived. The ones with true character absorb the lesson, let the bruises heal, and make the necessary changes. Some knuckleheads (*cough.JaMarcusRussell/RyanLeaf.cough*) NEVER get the lesson. Some take the hit, but never get past it- and let the lesson crush them. And some need more than one.

I've not cracked too hard on JM in these threads, because it would be unfair of me to judge him at the age of 22, given who I was at that age. However, I DO think his character might have benefited from a few "Life Lessons of The Hard-Knock Type" before this. Oh well... better late than never.

How he responds in this next chapter is entirely up to him. He's got tools at his disposal: a coach who seems to be much like My Pops (strict, but supportive), an entire staff that is invested in his success (for their own reasons), vets on the team who can mentor him- and a load of raw, natural ability just waiting to be honed/trained/developed.

The ball's in his court.

I've been a "private coach" for some incredibly gifted students over the past 30 years. Believe it or not, the training regimens of being a high-caliber musician and a high-caliber sportsman are astoundingly similar. Larry Fitzgerald is an athlete of large muscle groups; Joshua Bell (violin- Google him) is an athlete of small muscle groups. The training demands are similar in more ways than you can know... and the coaches who oversee such talent are trained to know what elite athletes need to take their game to the next stratum.

JM's challenges lie between his ears and behind his eyes. And NO coach can fix, hone, or tweak that... unless he's a willing participant in his own personal development.

As a trained observer, I'll know all I need to know in January, 2016.


.02,
Clem.

I still believe (no matter how much they deny it) that this was Haslam's pick. He is a multimillionaire - if not a billionaire - and wanted something shiny and exciting to 'buy,' so he 'bought' Johnny Football. It was daring and probably most fun for him to do, but it has blown up in his face.

After reading that article and especially seeing him play.... let's face it folks: It's over for Manziel. He might linger on for another season or two, probably as a 2nd or 3rd string backup. I just hope we can pawn him off on another team.

"In six quarters of play you can tell?"

Yep. Football guru 3rd_and_20 can tell. Can't you?



^'The Omen'^ play.

I think the Browns coaches and 'n' staff for the most part are keeping their mouths shut about what a disappointment Manziel is, just in case anyone dares to trade for him. They want to keep his value (if he has any left) at a premium.

I don't think Farmer ever wanted to play him, but us fans demanded it and by that time Hoyer was so bad, what option did we have?

Johnny Manziel: The National Enquirer of Football.

Speaking for only myself, I thought that Manziel was a boom or bust type player, but I never thought that it would be because he really wouldn't even try. I really thought that he was a guy who would do whatever it took to be great.

Man was I wrong about that.

Personally I wouldn't be sorry to see him go, and no I wouldn't regret it if he went somewhere else and "wrecked the league". As of right now Manziel does not fit with this team. Even before the article came out, it was apparent by the play on the field that he didn't have the respect of the team he was supposed to be leading. He's one of the farthest examples of "Play like a Brown" you can get.

But like I said, right now. He has a massive mountain to overcome. Not only does he have to adapt his game to the NFL, he has to learn a whole host of things he never had to before (extensive playbooks, defense).. but he also has to mature and convince the other 52 (plus the practice squad) players that they want to get on the field with him. I just don't see him being able to put all those things together sufficiently by next season's opener.

IMO just being retained on the roster IS his second chance. Like some of the other posters have said, there's no time to wait on Manziel to get it. The culture that's being established is one that if you show the dedication, the work ethic, and the preparedness... you will get the opportunity. This is the same culture that found us 3 legit starters that were undrafted rookies (Gabriel, the Crow, and K'waun).

May as well put this here. Mostly a rehash, but an interesting angle if what MKC says about prospective OC's studying tape of their new team is true. It *might* give us some insight what the Browns are thinking re: Manziel's future here.

Mary Kay Cabot: It can't bode well for Johnny Manziel that his new OC didn't feel compelled to study his film before taking the job.

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
January 23, 2015

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- It can't bode well for Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel that his new offensive coordinator, John DeFilippo, didn't study Manziel's film before taking the job.

It's highly unusual for a candidate not to dig into the film of the potential starting quarterback before accepting a position, one NFL coordinator told Northeast Media Group.

And it's not like DeFilippo didn't do his due diligence before becoming the Browns' sixth coordinator in six years on Wednesday. He acknowledged at one point in his interview that "I've done my research on this team.''

Yet, he didn't study the No. 22 overall pick from last season, who was drafted to be the Browns quarterback of the future. The guy who could potentially make or break him as a first time coordinator.

When DeFilippo was asked during his introductory press conference if he had studied Manziel, he said, "I'll be honest with you. I'm going to be flat-out honest with you because it's the only way I know how to be. I have not. I've not watched the games from last year with Johnny. Obviously, I studied Johnny coming out of college and spent some time with Johnny.

"I wouldn't say it was a lot of time, but I spent some time with Johnny. He flew out to Oakland and spent a day with him. Can you get an overview on a guy in one day? No, but you can get a grasp of what he thinks and how he's feeling and those things. I got along with Johnny when we met with him, but I can't tell you that I've watched the games yet. No, I have not.''

Considering it would've taken him about an hour to study Manziel's seven quarters of film, I find it extremely telling that he didn't. DeFilippo interviewed for the job five days before he accepted it, which means he had plenty of time to break down every single one of Manziel's plays. With nine three-and-outs in his 12 drives as a starter, there weren't very many reps to dissect -- about 54 in all. What's more, only half of those were passes, so it would've been an extremely quick study.

Besides, DeFilippo was able to precisely assess other players on the roster when asked which Browns he'd be excited to coach.

"Well, Josh Gordon is as talented of a guy that you get in terms of when you watch him run routes, from a physical stature,'' said DeFilippo. "Obviously he's a fantastic athlete. Joe Thomas is a fantastic athlete. Alex Mack is an unbelievable center, so those are the guys when you look at the Browns' roster, you're like, 'Wow, those guys are Pro Bowl-type players.'"

In addition to not studying Manziel's film, the very first answer out of DeFilippo's mouth after his brief opening statement was "we're not sure if our starting quarterback is in the building right now or not. If he is that's great. If he's not, that's great too.''

Those statements, coupled with remarks made later Thursday night by Browns owner Jimmy Haslam, would seem to suggest that the Browns aren't counting on Manziel to be the guy in 2015. In fact, they might even be nearing the end of their rope with their resident party boy.

"You can look at the teams whether they're in the final eight, the final four or the final two, you've got to have a really good quarterback and our situation as Coach (Mike) Pettine says is still muddy and we don't know who our quarterback is going to be next year and what I would say to our fans is, we're going to continue to work really hard to find that quarterback who can make us a championship team,'' Haslam said at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards.

Haslam went on to say he's not slighting the current crop of quarterbacks, but "we're going to work hard til we get a quarterback who can help us win and win consistently, which we've stated since day one is our goal. And it's not easy, but we understand it's the mission and we're going to work hard at it.''

Not long after Haslam's remarks, he spent about 10 minutes chatting in the media room at the Sports Awards with Ohio State national-championship winning quarterback Cardale Jones, whom Haslam -- a big man himself -- had to look up to. Haslam seemed clearly impressed with Jones (6-5, 250) and genuinely interested in him during their conversation.

Haslam also had no problem with all the cameras clicking away to capture the encounter. It was the perfect way to send yet another message to Manziel that he better get his act together and fast.

Like general manager Ray Farmer before him, Haslam stressed that the Browns are open to drafting a quarterback in the first round for the second straight season. They own the No. 12 and No. 13 picks and could try to move up to take a premier prospect if they're sold on one.

Haslam also reiterated that Manziel has to mature off the field for the Browns to even consider him as their starter, and so far, the second-year pro hasn't changed a thing. He bolted for South Beach the minute school was out, and he's hanging out in Aspen with Josh Gordon, who's also on thin ice with the team. The sight of them together can't be pleasing to Haslam, who's grown weary of the negative publicity generated by the two.

On Friday, ESPN.com ran a story quoting an anonymous teammate calling Manziel a "100 percent joke.''

Between DeFilippo apparently not feeling the need to be all in on Manziel before coming on board and Haslam emphasizing that the search is on for a championship-caliber quarterback, Manziel might be grateful he's only renting at The 9 and not heavily invested in real estate here.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/it_cant_bode_well_for_johnny_m.html

I think you are right Clem.
But I think we will have our answer on Manziel before January 2016.
OTA's should say a lot, but the team might not make that public knowledge. We will know in training camp if he has matured. And then the next question will be if he has the ability to succeed. Too bad we need to fix his head before we find out if he can adapt to the NFL game.

The NFL isn't a developmental league. Too bad we don't still have NFL Europe for the Manziels of the world. Mike Pettine might very well be coaching for his job this year, and he isn't going to waste time trying to "fix Manziel's head", just to find out if he can play. He's already had a year in a league where you're expected to show up ready to contribute in some way. I don't believe they bring rookies in and say "take your time, we're in no hurry ..." - not even rookie QBs have that luxury. Unless Mike has assurances that he keeps his job even if they go 0-16, there's no way he's giving Manziel any leeway at all. JMO, of course.

Actually Flip said he hadn't studied all the games or any of the players but he did what he felt was due diligence on the team as a whole. ( paraphrasing here).

As usual MKC gets only part of the story and then regurgitates material already in print.

That said I think the notation that there is a chance our QB is not on the roster is more damning.

I don't understand why cutting Manziel is not on the table.

His value is near zero. Maybe less.

He does not fit with the culture the Browns are trying to build.

His mountain seems insurmountable.

Guys will not play for him. He has done nothing to earn respect from his teammates so far this offseason. Hopefully the posters that were aghast at the notion that players weren't trying in the Cincy game will finally open their eyes.

I don't think he wants to be here anymore.

Why again aren't we cutting him? Because we drafted him in the first round? Who cares? Irrelevant at this point.

If the Browns want to right this ship, build the right culture, and earn respect league wide, they should cut him now. It would send the right message...we screwed up, when we screw up we quickly fix our mistakes, and we won't allow a single person to derail our mission.

By not cutting Manziel you are telling the rest of the team that you don't practice what you preach...that there are different rules for anyone. How are you going to get players to buy in on that?

There are "rumblings" out there as reported by NFL.com that both he and Gordon want to be sent/traded to Dallas. If this is indeed the case, see ya!

Gee, Defilippo didn't watch those whole 6 quarters of Manziel before taking the job? Wow. How horrible. I could see if Manziel had played 6 or 7 games, (or more) but he hardly played, and had issues during that time. What could the new OC learn from watching those 6 quarters?

But he is a cancer, hence my question.

honestly, i hope manziel works out.

i think it would be so cool to have some rock star QB start for us. and be GOOD. more monday and sunday night games.

i just love it when the browns get national coverage....for GOOD things.

Hopefully Manziel just retires and goes on tour with Drake and Justin Bieber.

I would LOVE for Manziel to show up at the Browns facilities, and work his ass off from the word go. I would love for him to become the guy we hoped he could be, because that would mean that we could use our assets for other positions than QB. That would be the best for the Browns.

no new friends no no no

i want to see how many volunteer workouts he shows up for. that would do him more good than anything right now.

Serious question as, obviously since I'm asking it, I don't the answer......BUT, what is to stop JM from contacting Defillipo today and heading to Cleveland to study film, playbook, etc? Is it against league rules?

i think that's ok to do. i don't think that would be an OTA.

It is hard to say with the new rules in the latest CBA. I am not sure.

Now that Gordon is toast we might as well get Manziel out. Out with all the gunk.

I almost wouldn't be opposed to that, but I'm willing to give him one more season for JF to get his act together. We gave Josh some leverage cause he was good on the field. JF, not so good one the field.

JMO

I am perfectly willing to give Manziel one last chance, as long as he doesn't do anything stupid, and he applies himself 100% every time he is in an off-season activity. If he decides that he doesn't want to work that hard, then I boot him out. I do think that we should give him that one chance.

Gordon I cut immediately. He is beyond useless to this team.

Who knows, since JM was out with Gordon, JM will see the impact of the poor decisions by Gordon. Maybe it will wake him up enough to decide if he really wants to play in the NFL or just sit and enjoy being a side-show...

I wonder if Manziel has failed any drug tests? They don't tell us about the first one.......right?

That's an interesting question and I don't know if he has ever been arrested for anything or not... also made me wonder about the Aspen pictures with JM..I can't remember if the failed alcohol test was after the 16th - when I think the pictures were taken with the crew and all the booze. That would be a shame if JG failed his test after hanging 1 weekend with JM...

I don't know the answers to those questions. I just know those guys were completely wasted and that is was so freaking dumb to pose for a picture like that if you are either Gordon or Manziel.

Sheesh............how dumb can you be?

obviously that dumb.

Everyone talks about Johnny turning his attitude around. Doubtful, but even if he does he's an injury waiting to happen. He couldn't stay healthy more than TWO games..... he's very small, and he loves to run around. It would be a miracle for him to survive an entire season. Let alone a career.

Compare him to Farve? Yeah, Farve drank. He also lived and breathed football and was one TOUGH SOB. He NEVER missed a start. Johnny has problems. His attitude of course, but even with a proper attitude he's not a sure thing. No where near it.

They only inform the public of a failed test when there is a penalty as a result of the failed test, at least as far as I know. I cannot remember them ever doing so, and I do not recall any such changes to the rules in the new drug program.

We need to get Manziel off of our team right now. Can you imagine the circus if he failed a drug test? Please no.

What evidence is there that this has happened? If the Gordon news has been leaked, similar Manziel news would blow by Gordon news like a NASCAR driver racing an ant.

I do think that we need to part ways with Gordon, immediately. I think that his continued presence does send a bad message to other guys who have done questionable things.

There is no evidence that is has happened. Just a hypothetical based off of Manziel's off field behavior.

Well, I am at the point where I don't see Manziel as having many chances at all left, but I also don't want to just waste the pick we used on him without a real reason to do so.

If he gets in trouble, or if he fails to absolutely bust his butt in every single camp and OTA, then I can see cutting ties with him .... but not just because another player got in trouble. (even one he was out palling around with)

or if gordon who parties with him does....