DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Ray Farmer on how he evaluates college DL and QBs

From the Browns official website:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...01-d1130b10f348

Too bad a bad Pro Day did.

Indeed. Anyone who would take any of the other rookie QBs over Bridgewater as this point is delusional.

I would of taken Garrappolo.

Hell if we were in position, I would of taken Bortles.. I think he could of been somewhat productive behind our line..

Plus lets not pretend Teddy is already great..



He has solid numbers.. but comparable..

Teddy.. Hoyer.. Carr..

Guys who start out like Bortles don't usually succeed. Bridgewater is on a good trajectory. Garoppolo is a complete unknown at this point. Carr could go either way.

I feel bad for Bortles.

And not just because of what he has to wear on gamedays..

I'd take Jimmy over Teddy anytime.

Based on what? Bridgewater has a sample of pretty good play in the NFL. Garoppolo has nothing.

Take the sure thing over the projection every time.

Teddy also has jack around him and plays in an Air Coryell system that is a talent based offense (Which is why it worked here in 2007). He's just starting to grow.

Because he was selected way too high and forced into action too soon?

I think the real funny thing here is that Garoppolo's projection wasn't even higher than Bridgewater's.

That said, I think Garopollo will be the 2nd best QB in the draft class.

Basically.. add in all that while being on a crappy team..

And to flip this, anyone that would take Bridgewater over Bortles or Carr is delusional.

on my phone right now so i need to wait to hit the link.

is it a dartboard? or do they just flip coins?

Bortles just had one of the worst rookie seasons in the history of the league. History shows that almost no one rebounds from that (Stafford is pretty much the only one).

Yeah, but who saw that coming?

And really, it's got little to nothing to do with the team he is on, other than he had to play. They have plenty of talent at WR and TE, they have a terrific front 7, and their run game picked up quite a bit starting with our game.

The Jags have been bad for years the same reason we have. Bad QBs.

I am guessing you are being facetious (as both Bortles and his college coach said he wasn't ready to start his first year). But, since not all will get it, I'll continue.

cfrs and myself were pretty adamantly against Bortles.

Considering that JAX tried to make him a mostly pocket QB, you also saw it coming. You had him #9 as a pocket-QB and #4 as a mobile-QB.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/868714/2

I mean, yeah, they had him run a few times a game. But, mostly, they tried to have him sit back there, read and make the throws. He was not ready to do that at all this year.

I think Bortles in our Weeks 1-10 offense would of done well..

Play action, roll outs, a couple reads, etc..

Maybe even better than Hoyer at times with a better arm..

Blake Bortles cannot read a defense. He does not have great arm strength. He was destined to fail the second the Jaguars took him.

How many rookies come in being able to read defenses well?

Our offense wasn't that complicated reads wise in the beginning..

And are you saying he was destined to fail, or destined to fail because he was picked by Jax?

In last year's draft there were several. Bridgewater, Murray, and McCarron come to mind.



Once the plays were happening, no. What about presnap? How much work did Hoyer do to get us in the right play call?



Both. Bortles was overrated because he looked like a QB. People fall in love with the measurables. Bortles arm strength and accuracy were both lacking and he was not ready for an NFL offense.

That's not true in the slightest.

Did Murray and McCarran even play this year?

I was talking about reading NFL defenses. Reading a college defense means nothing..

Based on what they did in college and what people said about them my guess is that they can.

Either way, not knowing if they can read a defense is better than knowing Bortles can't and probably will not.

I think it is too early to give a final grade on Bortles.

Then it is too early to give a final grade on any QB.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?a...e&Submit=Go

I agree. But the history of the league says that players that perform like him in their first year don't usually pan out.

Of course it is. Was I saying otherwise?

I think Bortles has some skills. If you remember, I brought him up on the board quite a bit before the national media started talking about him. I was hoping he would be there in the 3rd round. He was my sleeper guy, but I admitted that he would probably sky rocket up the charts.

I always claimed that he was the one guy who would benefit most from sitting for two years. I still believe that.

He has some talent. He really needs how to read the deep safety. LOL............it gives him fits. Always has.

I am not one of those guys that will say I guarantee he makes it. I just think that he does have some skills and he also needs some time to work on things. I will say that he has a chance.

I don't have anything against Teddy. I even wanted to draft him if we couldn't get Jimmy. Teddy had a decent first year especially given all the drama with Peterson. I mean he did OK.

When Jimmy had the chance to play against 1st team as the starter in the third game of the preseason(they wanted to rest Brady) He played great. I am not going to hold it against Jimmy that he has to sit behind a Hall of Famer. He has the skill set to be a great QB and sitting behind Brady will pay huge dividends for Jimmy.

I think once Jimmy is a starter he will be a great QB and the best QB of his draft. I think Teddy and Carr will do good too. Carr just needs a good offensive line.

I think you are wrong on a few accounts:

--Teddy did more than okay. He played w/the perhaps the worst OL in football. He lost AP [as you acknowledged,] and his best WR in the second half of the year was Charles Johnson...a guy we cut in TC.

--Preseason games don't mean squat. I am not knocking Jimmy, but he had done absolutely nothing for anyone to say he is the best qb in that draft.

--Carr had a very good OL. He was afforded way more time than Teddy. When he was pressured, his flaws were exposed. With that said, I thought the kid had a pretty good rookie year playing w/a team that was pretty crappy overall. I think he does have a future in this league. I might have been too harsh on him prior to the draft.

Farmer... just take what you did for JF, everything... reverse that and we are already in a better standing to pick a QB we can get some production out of and not have to read his name in headlines every other week.

Please, and thank you.

Bortles will be just fine. His biggest problem has been the team that he is on and the coaching staff that they have.

Still, Bortles will come out doing fine if the Jaguars do the things around him that they need to do.

It's true that Bortles probably shouldn't have been the one leading the team from the first snap, but that's what he was pretty much asked to do. He was put into a similar situation as Tim Couch. If Jax develops the team around him, they'll do just fine. The question is whether they will have the time, and if they do whether they'll make the correct decisions.

We should take your view because....?

Like, Peyton Manning... or Troy Aikman... or a pile of other current and former NFL QBs?

No. More like Blaine Gabbert and Jimmy Clausen and Brandon Weeden and Bruce Gradkowski.

Manning and Aikman started in an era that was not nearly as conducive to passing the football. . . and their numbers are similar to what Bortles did in 2014.

If Bortles turns it around he will be the only QB (besides Matthew Stafford) to have a season as bad as he did and turn it around since 2006. Bortles was really, really bad.

You're talking about auspicious starts to NFL careers. I see though, you have your examples and don't like the ones that fit your definition that I used.

Alright. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'll say this though, if Bortles were offered in a trade, Jax would get a lot of offers and probably would include a good number of 1st rounders in those offers. I'm sure that the Steelers would love to have him become available.

He had 56 rushes for 419 yards (7.5 ypc) and Russell Wilson had 51 rushes for 477 yards (7.8 ypc).