DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... High School Girls BB Coach Suspended After Team Wins 161-2

The refs must've had a bet on the over.

My favorite line in the whole story was that the losing coach "felt bad for the players on the winning team"

Yup...me too. I'd feel soooooooo terrible after winning by 159 points. You could just see the sadness on my face were I on the floor, or the bench, or the head coach or anyone associated with the winning team.

People are getting beyond stupid. If you don't want to lose by 159 points...do better at your job, or as players, do better on the floor.

I'm of the opinion (and I've coached some terrible teams, have taken losses like 90-10 and 130-55) that if you don't like the results, change your actions...period.

You lost by a million...too bad. Don't sour grapes all over it. And the administration of the school that won should be ashamed of themselves for suspending their coach 2 games for winning by too much. Sportsmanship is the most overrated thing on the planet. We should all stop working hard when we get ahead by a lot. That's what we are teaching todays society...be good...but don't be too good, you don't want the bad ones to feel bad about themselves and boo hoo all over the place and be sad...Maybe the coach and the team can forfeit their season for being bullies because they win too much. Theyre too good...maybe they shouldn't be allowed to play because theyre too good.

Give me a break. This is some sad sack sorry stuff here. What a society. Good job everyone. Good job.

Unless the coach and the team rubbed it in afterward, I hardly see any bad sportsmanship.

Based on how bad the other team lost, I would insulted if I was on the losing team and suffered through the winning team "dumbing down" their play, just to not run up the lead. I'd forfeit before that.

Good point. I think it is more insulting if someone isn't trying their best against. I don't want your charity. It's insulting.

I have a friend who is excellent at tennis. He kicked my butt. He said: You can hit into the doubles areas and I still have to hit into the singles area. I can't type my response.

My kids are the same way. I have a pool table at our new house. I'm killing them. I said: I will bank every shot. Both of them got fired up and would not play under such circumstances.

You honor an oppenent by playing your best and not by feeling sorry for them.

At a certain point it just becomes sadism . What is the point after a while ? Class cannot be coached .

The losing team could have forfeited at halftime if the coach was that worried about his team being embarrassed that badly. It's not up to the winning coach to massage the fragile egos of the opposing team's members. I'm so sick of seeing stories like this, where somebody complains because they weren't good enough to compete with an opponent. When I have kids, I'll tell them to keep competing no matter what, whether they're up by 100 or down by 100. If their best isn't good enough then it isn't good enough and they can work on improving. How weak this country is getting when handling children sickens me. The losing coach should be embarrassed about his complaints, I know I'm embarrassed for him.

The continual stating of the idea that our country is getting weaker merely because someone disagrees with someone elses values is kind of annoying also.

Complaining about a competition because the other person is better is weak. Everyone "earning" a trophy for participation because their fragile minds can't tolerate the concept of losing is weak. I'm not saying the country is getting weak because of differences in values, I'm saying it because of the facts laid out in front of us. Kids are being raised to not know how to handle adversity. Give them 15 years and see how they react when they don't get hired for a job or someone else gets promoted over them. It's a real trend, and it sucks.

"Football is too rough of a sport, so I'm enrolling my child in a cup stacking competition. After the competition that doesn't have any winners or losers, we'll all go out for victory ice cream (even though nobody technically won)" = weak.

This isn't an issue of "everyone gets a trophy".

Sports at a collegiate and professional level are about winning. Below that, it's about instilling values and building character.

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/wide/index.ssf?hal7.html

I still miss Hal Lebovitz. Best Cleveland sportswriter there ever was.

Hasn't this "wussification" been happening long enough that we should be seeing the results?

From what I understand it's us baby-boomers who have been the most entitled.

sorry, but according to some posters, myself and people who think like me in our generation are the most entitled.

Shouldn't the losing team be building character by not giving up no matter the score and congratulating the winners instead of whining about how they were too good?

I'm 32 and absolutely see it among others my age. It's gross. Nobody knows how to suck it up when they fail.

sorry but these carebear attitudes are going to make me throw up.

i remember in high school, we lost this football game 77-7 at our own house. in front of everybody we know.

it was a complete train wreck.

but we didn't complain that the other team ran up the score. we had this burning passion to NEVER let that BS happen again. and it didn't.

so sure, high school sports is suppose to teach character. and for me it succeeded.

it taught me this: i can learn from a close loss, but a blowout means i got to work way harder than before if i expect to compete with top talent in the world, no matter WHAT i'm doing as a profession.

stop with this carebear attitudes. thats why we have a bunch of whining babies in our country now. everybody needs their hands held.

I agree. Todays youth come out of college, take a job, and are disappointed when they aren't CEO in a month. Weak.

They whine about things, "That's not Fair" they cry, about everything. Weak. Life's not fair!

When things don't go their way its "Nelly grab your panties time!" Instead of coming in and learning the established system, they want to change everything. Then when they don't win those changes, here comes the whining and negativity! Weak.

I recently read a story of a grown man in his 20's who was turned down for a promotion so his mother came to work with him to confront the President!

BAWhahaha, Weak.

I have heard complaints, but most of the time those people do get their s*** together and move on. I've never noticed any particular group of people who continue to fail because they're waiting for someone to change the rules. Except for those from every generation who just blame others for everything.

Wait, so the winning team shouldn't "let up", but the losing team should just flat out quit? Yeah, that's really teaching some great lesson to the kids. If you can exploit a weakness, show bad sportsmanship and continue to exploit it as much as possible to run up the score to a crazy numbers. Sure it won't actually improve ANYTHING about your game, but hell we gave that team a butt whooping.



And nobody said anything about massaging fragile egos. For one, it's about "good sportsmanship". You don't keep exploiting a weakness over and over again when you're up by a ton. It's not going to teach your kids anything in life, except to be a-holes when the contest is already over. I'm sure they'll go far in life.

And for two, you aren't challenging your own kids to do anything. And I think that's what the losing coach is talking about. He's not whining about getting a beatdown. He's saying the opposing coach is basically teaching his kids nothing. If you're coaching a bunch of kids how to run an offensive set against a bunch of pilons, and they finally "get it" ... do you keep running it over and over again and brag about how you kicked the crap out of those pilons, or do you move onto something more challenging for your kids? The winning coach has taught his kids absolutely nothing. They now can run a full-court press against an over-matched team. Great for them. So when they run up a team that can pass out of a full-court press, what are they going to do? Probably crap the bed because they only know what to do when a team can't handle it at all. Meanwhile, they've learned nothing about challenging themselves, they've learned no additional basketball skills, and they have no fall back options that they've practiced in-game, because they were too busy running up the score.



Well good ... I want them to compete at 100% too. But I also want them to challenge themselves and show great sportsmanship in the process. Like I said before, running a full-court press against a team that's woahfully over-match isn't challenging your team. It's rubbing it in the face of the other team. Challenge them to do something more difficult, like shoot and dribble left handed. Turn it into a coaching opportunity, rather than a chance to run up the score. Push them to do something difficult so they CAN go 100% and experience some difficulty in doing it. This isn't the freaking pros, it's kids.

And what's worse than that? Nobody knows how to challenge themselves when they succeed. It's far easier to just take the easy route and kick-butt rather than force yourself to do something where you might fail but grow or learn something along the way.

We have already said that the guy should NOT have run up the score. You are being so narrow minded about this.

What the hell are you saying?

How about practicing more? How about developing a youth program? How about having summer workouts? How about going to camps? How about being competitive? How about trying to win and shutting your freaking mouth when you lose?

Dude, shut up!

Telling people to shut up? classy.

And like usual, you are having reading comprehension problems. Plenty of people seem to be just okay with the coach running up the score. They just want to the losing coach to deal with it. Yes, he can do plenty of things to help his team improve, but what you are completely missing is that the "winning" coach could have too.

That's what the losing coach was getting at. I don't think he was "whining" that the other coach ran up the score. He was saying that he basically taught his team absolutely nothing about how to compete, and he's right.

I posted a link to this earlier half-assed while waiting for a flight, but it deserves a full read.

For the younger Dawgs out there, Hal Lebovitz was the greatest Cleveland sportswriter ever. I was lucky enough to pick the man's brain over breakfast on several occasions. Read his words carefully. He knows what he's talking about.

Winning coach only scored 55 points in the second half. Sounds to me like the scrubs came in.

Oh well, guess there should be a mercy rule for this league if that's the competitive level.

"Wait, so the winning team shouldn't "let up", but the losing team should just flat out quit? Yeah, that's really teaching some great lesson to the kids. If you can exploit a weakness, show bad sportsmanship and continue to exploit it as much as possible to run up the score to a crazy numbers. Sure it won't actually improve ANYTHING about your game, but hell we gave that team a butt whooping."

I said, if the coach was that worried about his team being embarrassed, he could have forfeited at halftime. Apparently, he wasn't that worried about it during the game. Yes, the losing team should flat out quit instead of expecting the winning team to go easy on them. It's a competition, not a friendly exhibition. The goal is to win, not to be best friends and let the opponent have a good time.

"And nobody said anything about massaging fragile egos. For one, it's about "good sportsmanship". You don't keep exploiting a weakness over and over again when you're up by a ton. It's not going to teach your kids anything in life, except to be a-holes when the contest is already over. I'm sure they'll go far in life.

And for two, you aren't challenging your own kids to do anything. And I think that's what the losing coach is talking about. He's not whining about getting a beatdown. He's saying the opposing coach is basically teaching his kids nothing. If you're coaching a bunch of kids how to run an offensive set against a bunch of pilons, and they finally "get it" ... do you keep running it over and over again and brag about how you kicked the crap out of those pilons, or do you move onto something more challenging for your kids? The winning coach has taught his kids absolutely nothing. They now can run a full-court press against an over-matched team. Great for them. So when they run up a team that can pass out of a full-court press, what are they going to do? Probably crap the bed because they only know what to do when a team can't handle it at all. Meanwhile, they've learned nothing about challenging themselves, they've learned no additional basketball skills, and they have no fall back options that they've practiced in-game, because they were too busy running up the score."

I said something about massaging fragile egos, that's what this is about. Kids' feelings got hurt because they weren't good enough, boo-hoo. Good sportsmanship is playing as hard as you can in order to win. Putting in backups and letting off the gas even more at halftime is not sportsmanship, that's holding your opponents' hands for them, it's ridiculous. Backups were put in halfway through the game by the winning team, there were no weaknesses being exploited with some sort of sinister plan. The losing team was simply that awful, there was nothing the winning team could do about that. Let's be honest, many of the successful people in life are a-holes because a lot of times you have to be in order to achieve greatness. The strongest survive, if you will. I'm sure they WILL go far in life, minus the sarcasm you used.

I'm challenging my kids to play their hardest during an athletic COMPETITION. What would telling my kid to not try his best teach him? "Son, you're too good. Don't be the best you can be so you can instead help these other kids feel better about themselves since they're much worse than you." Not happening, sorry. The losing team in this game was the pylon in your scenario, it basically turned into a live scrimmage. I see nothing wrong with the winning team focusing on perfecting a technique during a game if they're that far ahead.

"Well good ... I want them to compete at 100% too. But I also want them to challenge themselves and show great sportsmanship in the process. Like I said before, running a full-court press against a team that's woahfully over-match isn't challenging your team. It's rubbing it in the face of the other team. Challenge them to do something more difficult, like shoot and dribble left handed. Turn it into a coaching opportunity, rather than a chance to run up the score. Push them to do something difficult so they CAN go 100% and experience some difficulty in doing it. This isn't the freaking pros, it's kids."

Playing your best, respecting your opponent by bringing your best, and winning fairly is great sportsmanship. Not playing your best and disrespecting your opponent by giving only 50% is not good sportsmanship. Again, the backups were put in at halftime. There wasn't much the winning team could do to make things easier aside from literally not playing at all. That would have been an awful lesson for those kids.

You seem to be missing the concept of competition. Whether the participants are pros or freaking kids. Try your hardest, play fair, and win. If you can't compete against the opponent and are going to cry about it, don't play. Or, you can suck it up, compete at 100% and get your butt whipped, then shake the hands of the winners after the game and continue improving. You and I clearly see competition differently. You see it as a friendly cooperation event where everybody feels good about themselves while I see it as one player or one group against another player or another group with the goal of being the absolute best. When that losing team does finally get a win, they will have earned it and all of their hard work will pay off. Nothing should be handed to an opponent during a competiton, no matter what level it's at.

I have played my 6-year old nieces in games like Checkers, Connect Four, chess, etc. many times. They have never beaten me and I won't let them. They can keep trying and get better at the games over time. Eventually, once they learn how to truly master the game, they will beat me and feel a huge satisfaction for the effort they put in to do it. During the course of learning how to play and legitimately win, they will learn so much more about persevering than if I let them win every once in a while. I explain to them every time I'm not going to let them win and ask if they still want to play and they always agree. After we finish and I've thoroughly destroyed them, they smile and say they're going to get better so they can beat me. They WANT to get better because they know how sweet victory will be when they become good enough to do it. THAT is what kids should be taught, to hunger to be the best instead of simply good enough.

You're missing the point .. I'm not talking about the losing team, I'm talking about the winning team. They are doing nothing to improve themselves.

Do you play basketball with your 6-year old nieces? Do you drive it in on them slam it down in their face each time because your 3 feet taller than them? And then just say, "learn stop it"? Then continuously do the same play over and over again, just because you can? Is that teaching them anything? More importantly, is it challenging yourself to do anything? Do you not try to take increasingly difficult shots or maybe dribble with one hand? Dribble with your left hand? Things that maybe you're not very good at, but can practice to help even the odds?

What happens if the next day, you're playing me in basketball. You drive the lane and get it stuffed back in your face because I'm not three feet tall? You haven't done anything else to improve any other aspect of your game. You just know you can power it over a 6 year old. Now you can't do the one thing you know how to do, and you've practiced no other aspect of your game that would actually help you out. You also haven't done anything to challenge yourself either, so now that you're facing actual adversity and the shoe is on the other foot you're probably going to crumble under an actual challenge.

That's essentially what this coach was doing. Metaphorically driving the lane and slamming it down against 6-year olds. Rather than challenging his team to do something else that would amp up the degree of difficulty, he just kept at it because it worked.

No, I get the point, I just disagree with you.

I wouldn't slam it in my nieces' faces after gaining a huge lead, but I'd keep shooting and scoring. They need to learn how to handle failure and continually bounce back. I didn't read where the winning team was obnoxious about their victory, though. It sounded like the backups were put in halfway through and they took care of business. They also weren't giants compared to their opponents, from what I read. So, your comparison doesn't really work since there wasn't a huge physical advantage like you brought up in your theoretical scenario. I don't play my nieces in basketball because I am much larger, it wouldn't be a competition. It's why I play board games with them, so they can use their minds and create strategies. When they're older and closer to me in height, I will play against them in basketball when it's a more fair physical matchup and not go easy on them.

If I play you the next day and get crushed, I'd want to keep playing you and learn how to beat you. I'd improve by playing better competition and learn by watching how they play rather than competing against lesser opponents and learning nothing. One becomes a winner by surrounding oneself with other winners. I wouldn't whine about you crushing me, I'd study you and get better. I'd have the drive to beat you. That's my point I'm trying to make. A lot of people my age and younger would rather complain about their loss than to figure out how to get better and earn the victory. The wussification of this country can be thanked for that weak mentality.

I play video games online against others my age and 99% of the time, they will quit when they're losing because they can't handle an actual loss. I don't talk to them or play obnoxiously, just straightforward in an attempt to win. They'd rather forfeit than complete the game because they don't know how to properly handle failure in even a meaningless competition with nothing on the line. I've actually stopped playing online for the most part because of that.

j/c

As has been mentioned, the coach put in his second string at half time. To me that says a lot about some attempt to mitigate the onslaught. I believe that's as far as we should expect him to go.

Had he left his first stringers in and just poured it on, maybe I could see the outcry here, but I just don't see it.

So you would take increasingly difficult shots then, no? You would challenge yourself to do something harder, right?


They scored 161 points in a game while employing the full-court press for the majority of the game? Like someone mentioned, this isn't 12 minute quarters. You would have to try pretty darn hard to put up that many points in a game.



They beat them by 159 points! There was a huge physical/skill advantages at play here. At what point do you say, okay you are matched up enough for me to beat you by 159 points, you just need to take it?

And again, you keep going back to the losing coach! I'm NOT talking about the losing coach sucking it up and just learning to get better, it's about the winning coach going for the jugular and teaching his girls nothing about challenging themselves.



This is a perfect example. Do you know WHY that is? It's usually because they know how to do one or two plays. Usually a long bomb or some bread-and-butter pass play. They play their little brother or some meager competition and run up the score just doing the same thing over and over again. Then they play somebody that actually knows how to stop that play, and they've got NOTHING to do to prevent it. They have no idea how to do anything else, and they are so used to just stomping lesser competition, that they would just rather quit and go find someone else that they can roll over than try to figure out other ways to beat you.

When I'm playing someone that's obviously over-matched, I start running plays that I'm not familiar with. I test out the run game. I do plays that normally don't work very well for me. I challenge myself not to spam the sprint button and try and use other moves to make a play. It helps me learn things that I might not necessarily be good at, while giving them a chance to learn the game themselves.

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"So you would take increasingly difficult shots then, no? You would challenge yourself to do something harder, right?"
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Against my 6-year old niece in a game for fun? Sure. In a competitive game against someone else who is trying to play at my level? Not a chance. Playing against my niece would be a coaching opportunity. Playing against someone in a game that counts is not the time to coach your opponent up.

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"They scored 161 points in a game while employing the full-court press for the majority of the game? Like someone mentioned, this isn't 12 minute quarters. You would have to try pretty darn hard to put up that many points in a game."
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I thought you said the winning coach should have used this as a learning lesson for his team. Perhaps, they needed to work on their full court press and he took advantage of that since he knew he couldn't lose by employing it nearly every time.

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"They beat them by 159 points! There was a huge physical/skill advantages at play here. At what point do you say, okay you are matched up enough for me to beat you by 159 points, you just need to take it?

And again, you keep going back to the losing coach! I'm NOT talking about the losing coach sucking it up and just learning to get better, it's about the winning coach going for the jugular and teaching his girls nothing about challenging themselves."
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There seems to have been a huge skill advantage, but not a huge physical advantage. In talking about playing with my niece, it'd be equivalent to you or I playing against Andre the Giant. That's absurd and didn't happen here.

The winning coach put his backups in at halftime, that's not going for the throat. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect him to tell his players to retard their development by dribbling with their off-hand DURING A GAME, just because they're beating their opponents by a large margin. This is a competition, not a hand-holding event. I'm talking about both coaches here. The winning coach did what most coaches would do in a blowout, put in his backups. He shouldn't be expected to do anything more than that in this situation. The losing coach whined that his team lost by such a huge margin, so he can't handle defeat like a man.

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"This is a perfect example. Do you know WHY that is? It's usually because they know how to do one or two plays. Usually a long bomb or some bread-and-butter pass play. They play their little brother or some meager competition and run up the score just doing the same thing over and over again. Then they play somebody that actually knows how to stop that play, and they've got NOTHING to do to prevent it. They have no idea how to do anything else, and they are so used to just stomping lesser competition, that they would just rather quit and go find someone else that they can roll over than try to figure out other ways to beat you."
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I know exactly why they do that, because they don't know how to handle defeat. Your paragraph described perfectly what I'm talking about. The guy is used to playing in a cheap way against lesser opponents and builds a false sense of achievement. When he goes against somebody who won't let him win or is better, his confidence crumbles because he doesn't know how to face the adversity of defeat. That mentality that you described is what has been instilled in people my age and younger. "They'd rather quit and go find someone else that they can roll over than try to figure out other ways to beat you." THAT'S MY POINT. The weakening and wussification of the country over the past few decades has created whiners and quitters instead of those who would rather man up and figure out how to beat somebody better than them. That is the epitome of being weak-minded with no motivation to be better.

Which is EXACTLY what that winning coach was doing. That's been my point all along. He never did anything to push his own team.



Which is what's going to happen to that winning team when they DO face actual competition. Again, that's been my point all along, and probably what the losing coach was insinuating when he was "whining" about losing.



Which is exactly MY point. That mentality is instilled in people your age, BECAUSE of coaches just like this winning coach ... they would rather run up the score and do things that are working rather than challenge his players to do something different or demanding, that might actually improve themselves down the road.

You are looking at it ONLY from the losing team's point of view. Chances are he had his girls run plays against cones, ran simple sets, and never really pushed them to achieve anything greater. He made it way too easy on them in practice and they paid the price come game-time. Well, the winning coach is doing the same thing in the game. Pouring it on against a team that was obviously over-matched. He didn't find ways to challenge his players, he just let them take the easy way out to roll up the score.

Just like those online players that only know how to throw a deep bomb, when they run up against a team that can pass out of a full-court press, they are going to give up and quit because the only thing they've been coached to do is how to beat on over-matched competition.

This is going nowhere, we will obviously disagree with each other for eternity. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Classy? Followed up my lack of reading comprehension. Now, that's classy.

the coach deserved to be suspended for not telling his players to step over the other team similar to what AI did to Tyronn Lue.

Just clicking CHS

If I was the losing coach, my biggest disappointment would be that we ended the game with any of my players having any fouls left.

We are obviously outmatched in every aspect, I will be damned if my players are going to stand there and watch the other team basically run lay up drills on us during a game. You cant stop them, ok knock them on their ass and let them practice their free throws. You want to show us up and run up the score on us? Ok, you're going to have some bruises to show for it. I am not advocating hurting anybody, but there is nothing wrong with a good hard foul.

That's a pretty good point.

I played in a 3 on 3 full court league one summer when I was in my early 30s. There were a lot of good players in the league, including a couple of NBA guys and quite a few college players.

We had a good team, but we ran into this one team and they started blowing us out. The big scorers on our team all quit. The other team started fast breaking and were doing massive dunks. I went back in the game and after one steal, I sprinted down the court and went up high [as I can...LOL] to stop a sure dunk. I didn't undercut him, but I slammed his shoulders as hard as I could and blocked the shot. We both went down and started wailing on each other. The guy is 8 or 9 inches taller than me and probably 50 pounds heavier. Some of these soccer mom babies on here might say I am a jerk, but others might say I had some pride. Anyway, that particular guy and I became good friends and he recruited me to play on his team the following year.

I think there is a good message in what you and I are saying here. You aren't a loser if you give it your best effort and never, ever quit. Play every play like it is your last play. If you do that, you can walk off the field/court w/your head held high no matter what the score is. And you never, ever whine about someone piling on. I would be so angry if someone ever felt sorry for me and backed off. Bring your best because you are going to need it!

j/c

8th grade game last night. Yes, I know, 8th grade compared to varsity........

Archbold ended up beating Napoleon 41-7.

Score at half time was 28-1. Coach played the backups as much as he could late in the half, took the full court press off midway in the 2nd quarter.

Seriously, it was a game we could've won by 50 points? maybe 60 points?

What good would that have done? Class.

With backups in, and the press off, we still scored 13 in the second half, to their 6. Our second string was better than their first string, but the coach backed it down, if that's how you want to term it. He didn't ask the girls to not score, but instead of the run and gun O, they walked the ball up the court.

Instead of the starters playing a full court press, he had the backups press for about half a quarter. There was 1 girl in particular that doesn't play much at all - as in 0 minutes in the previous 3 games.......she started the second half and didn't come out.

Now, with only 9 girls on the team, at least 1 starter was in the game the entire time. But the key, imo, was - we didn't TRY to embarass Napoleon.

Proof of the "wussification" of America.

If the scores not run up then it's not the America we believe in!!

cept the girls they were playing against weren't 6 year old nieces, they were same age, scheduled competition...

not their fault the competition didn't do a good enough job

The competition last night didn't do a good enough job. Maybe they just didn't have the ability. So, should we have embarrassed them even more?

no reason to take the pedal off...

have future games against quality teams to prepare for. Gotta play the game