DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Open Letter from josh

Supposedly it was a ban through the end of the season (possibly the league year?) but if he is banished, you can be certain that abstaining from alcohol will be a condition of his potential reinstatement next year.

http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wk...-1422568206.mp3

Good response from Stephen A. Smith here. I have actually never been a fan of 'Screamin A' but his response makes a lot of sense here. I gained a lot of respect for him both for that and the passion he has on a lot of subjects. Give it a listen. Some takeaways:

- He grew up in the hood too, can relate to what Josh has gone through
- Stay off the weed
- Stay off the booze
- Stay out of trouble, just play football
- Wants to see young black men in Josh's situation make better choices and succeed
- Very effusive praise for LeBron James as a person/role model

You guys are all ridiculous really. If it makes you feel better hating on some kid you dont know then so be it.

Some of you have probably done worse. Whats he doing? Oooh he smokes weed and drinks. The horror. He's 23.

It takes some people a lot longer than others to change their ways. He may no longer live in a bad area but that doesn't change how he grew up or the affects it may have had on him. Thankfully nobody gave up on me by 23. I was damn near 30 before I really stopped going out drinking, smoking weed etc. I enjoyed going out and hanging out with my friends. I stopped when I met my wife.

He needs to find something he loves more than what he's doing and right now football doesn't appear to be it. That doesn't make him a bad guy or a reason to give up on him.

We all deserve to find something we enjoy doing. I would like that to be catching passes for the Browns but if not oh well.

the season ends after the superbowl

Not sure who this is directed at but I don't really see anybody hating on the guy (then again, I'm not really sure what 'hating on somebody' really means since that phrase is thrown around so comically sometimes.)

23 is old enough to make some reasonable life decisions and when your main obstacles to making $10 million/year are to not smoke weed and not drink alcohol, then you don't smoke weed and you don't drink alcohol. No exceptions and especially not for someone who has had such a long list of incidents going back to his college days.

No one cares that he smokes and drinks.

The concern is over the fact that his drug and alcohol use has resulted in two arrests, two expulsions from colleges, three suspensions and nine failed drug tests in the last four years.

That's hardly 'He smokes and drinks, oh the horror'.

Could you imagine standing in front of your boss after your fifth failed drug test and saying "Ooh, I drink and smoke weed the horror! Stop hating on me.'?



Just so I understand... the fact that a man has no apparent interest in playing football is not a reason for a football organization to give up on him?

Just to expand on this theme ..... Imagine that Gordon was just your ordinary slob. Maybe he works for the Post Office instead of playing in the NFL. He gets caught with a dirty drug test. If he worked for the Post Office, he would be unemployed once he had that dirty test. At best, he might have to go to counselling, and have one last chance.

Imagine him having failed 5 or 6 drug tests .... for whatever reason(s). Imagine him being just your neighbor instead of being a famous football player. How many people would make the same excuses for him.

Imagine that he was an airline pilot. 5 or 6 failed drug/alcohol tests? Done long before then.

However, because he is a football player, we give him extra leeway. Maybe that's a mistake. A football player isn't going to kill anyone if he walks on the field after having smoked pot the night before, or even being hungover on the field. Maybe that's why we are so willing to forgive him. He is not in a life or death business. However, he cheats his team, his teammates, and the fans of his team when he selfishly refuses to follow the rules that every NFL player has to follow. He has put a massive target on his back from here on out. Actually he had one for the past year. He just does not seem to care though.

That is what irritates people, especially fans, so much. I think that probably none of us can imagine having that much talent, playing for a team we love, and just blowing it in order to get high, or to have a drink. Not only that, but if he doesn't have a drug/alcohol problem, that makes it even sadder. If Gordon were an addict, then we could feel some degree of sympathy for him. That is a very tough battle to win, and people in that situation have to be on guard every second of their lives. We understand when an addict slips. We cheer him when he stands up and overcomes his failings.

This is not the case with Gordon. It just seems like he does not care enough about his team, teammates, or career, to pay attention to the things he can, and cannot do if he wants that career to continue. He needs to be 10 times as careful as almost every other player in the league. When he makes mistakes at this point, it costs him, and his team, a huge amount.

If he doesn't have a drug problem, then he needs to grow up and be a man. He needs to decide that he is going to be responsible for his actions. That doesn't mean paying lip service to responsibility, it means staying completely away from drugs, and alcohol if that is a condition of his continued employment. He has to turn himself around completely in this regard. Part way is not enough. He has brought it all on himself though. He needs to stop talking, and start doing.

I agree.

I get particularly irked when I hear nonsense like 'We all did dumb things when we were young'.

Well, duh. We either learned from them, or repeated them.

One is progress, the other is a problem.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I learned from my mistakes, I earned where I am, and, no, I was nothing like Gordon at his age.

Don't judge a man on his mistakes. Judge a man on how he responds to his mistakes.

That's why guys like Gordon and Manziel are losers. They're all lip service.

But at the end if the day, they just keep on doing the same.

In fairness to Manziel it is too early for me to lump him into the same category as Gordon. He has not failed drug tests left and right. he does go out, and is covered on every trip to any bar he winds up at, but I don't see major problems there.

I also think that Manziel was a guy who had things come easily to him, and he expected his talent to make things come easily to him in the NFL. I think that last year was a major wake up call for him. I hope it was, anyway. He gets another chance to really apply himself. I am afraid that Gordon has used up all of his last chances, despite his massive talent.

funny you mention that... Were his latest failed weed test been done under airline pilot standards, he would have passed. And he probably would have been less likely to be tested for booze getting off of a plane, ironically... But that's none of my business.

My inclusion of Manziel in my comments was rooted in the notion/fact their neither learn from their mistakes.

Mistakes aren't always an indication of lacking intelligence.

Repeating the same mistakes over and over and learning nothing is a direct indication of being a dunce and an inevitable loser.

Both Gordon and Manziel have shown clear signs of that.

From Josh's letter: "What I do know is the following: I am not a drug addict; I am not an alcoholic........"

Pretty much all of his football-related problems are the result of him using alcohol and other drugs, so just stop using altogether and those problems should go away for good. Yes?

...And...

It should be easy for him to quit since he says he's not an addict.

P.S. I don't know what to think about this situation anymore!

I doubt you are concerned about him at all. You're mad he can't play for your favorite football team.

He obviously does have interest...how much is the question. I think it's worth it to wait the year and see where his head is at.

You can call him a loser but losers don't even make it to the NFL or lead the league in receiving...still have to work to get to that point.

Wait a year to see where his head is at? That was what we did last year.

There is a pattern. He gets caught doing something he shouldn't do, and is aware that he shouldn't do. He then apologizes for his mistake and lack of judgement and promises that it will not happen again. And then it does. By now, I think we can see where his head is at, and it's not toeing the line so that he can continue his career.

Some say weed and beer is no big deal. Weed is legal in some places and alcohol is legal in the US at Josh's age. But when your employer explicitly states that you are not ingest/inhale/inject/whatever a substance or you will be suspended, and that you will be checked for it at random, then you stay off of it. I said it in another thread, I don't care if the NFL tells him to stay off of chocolate .. if that is a condition of your employment then you stay off of it.

Josh has used up his chances. No more benefit of the doubt. His agreement for reinstatement is that he stays clean. Part of reinstatement after the DWI was no alcohol. He is aware of these conditions and he chooses to ignore them. That has nothing to do with age or how he grew up. In the moment, having that drink or doobie is more important to him than playing professional football.

His letter ... might be his thoughts, might be his agent's. It does not read the same as he speaks, but still could be his thoughts and someone else word-smithing. To me, the words say he is taking accountability but the sense is that he really isn't. There are a lot of excuses in there.

His take on Charles, Stephen, Cris and all ... I respect that. If you do not know him and have never really connected with him, then don't come across like you do. Seems to me that they a posturing more for themselves than Gordon.

That's pretty much the case, yes.



Considering he has yet to make it through a year with any football organization without being arrested, suspended, or failing a drug test, I'd say odds are high it will be a fruitless endeavor.



Yes, they do. All the time, in fact.

No, they haven't revealed the details yet. Josh is saying that he wasn't allowed to drink during the season. Well, his season ended..

There has got to be more to it. If it were that simple, we'd not heard a word about it.

People still defending this clown show. wow

j/c

Meanwhile...Leveon Bell played until he got hurt and Blount is going to play Sunday...and played EVERY week AFTER admitting to being stoned while driving a car. Were those guys EVER tested?

JG had 1/2 a beer too many while driving and now regularly gets tested for alcohol? Who made up that stupid rule? How in the world did the players' union let that be part of the deal? Then he had drinks on a plane after the season was over - on a plane that he wasn't flying - and now he's suspended for a year?

Too sore to play tomorrow? Here...take these pills and come in early tomorrow for a shot before the game. But don't have a few drinks on the plane.

It's HIS fault he's in trouble again...no doubt. The rules in this regard are still ridiculously hypocritical.

That is what astounds me. Who the heck was doing their negotiations?!? The players got fleeced on this deal.

The Bell and Blount case also miffs me. Guess when you play for the darlings of the NFL the rules are different.

Players are subject to one street drug test a year.

You can't just test a guy when you feel like it or because he got arrested.

Absolutly. I see two things that bug me.. The fact that the NFL makes millions from Beer ads, (as josh eluded to in his letter) and the big difference between Drugs and booze is that Booze in legal.

those things bug me. But the bottom line is still, was he told that he wasn't to drink? Apparently, he was. Then he drank and now he's in for a suspension.

It still comes down to him taking responsibility for his own actions.

But yeah, telling him he can't drink then accepting millions from Beer companies seems a little hypocritial to me.

Not in the slightest. It's not even remotely hypocritical.

The NFL isn't randomly selecting him and telling him 'no alcohol' without any reason. They're telling him that he hasn't used it responsibly, so the price of him keeping his job is to not use it for a specified period of time. His failure to follow that one simply rule now has him looking at being out of work next year. Gordon chose this.

How so?

Most addicts and alcoholics deny their addiction. Those who succeed admit and follow the 12 steps. Denial is part of the addiction. He has made his bed, crawl in ZZZZZ

Not really sure about the Bell and Blount thing because I haven't followed it, but players who aren't in the substance abuse program get tested exactly once per year in the off-season starting on 4/20 (no really, that's the date.) Once you pass that test, you're free to use any recreational substance you want until the next off-season, and plenty of players take advantage of that. It's not as if the NFL's system is overly tough.

1/2 a beer too many lol... .08 is already the highest legal driving limit in the world and how about we break it down by how much a muscular 230 lb man has to drink over a several hour period to blow a .09. It's a lot more than 'a few beers'. So tired of hearing excuses for this dude. He got this DUI before his appeal hearing for a year long suspension that was the culmination of several failed drug tests while in the NFL. If that isn't a slap in the face to the league then I don't know what is.

Oh and then the league actually bent over backwards for Josh; that failed drug test should have been a one year banishment from the league with no contact with the team and opportunity to apply for reinstatement after a year, and the DUI could have easily been another 2-4 game suspension on top of that due to the rather large number of violations of the substance abuse policy. But the league combined those two into a sweetheart deal of a 10 game suspension which would have given him credit for a full season in regards to fulfilling his contract and hitting free agency. Then he got hammered and didn't show up to work before the last game of the season and got suspended for a game by the team anyway.

So of course he follows that up by getting hammered on a plane (.06 threshold but >4 hour flight and 4 additional hours to report to the testing location...) before the playoffs even start, while going to Vegas, while he knows he was still subject to random testing and quite honestly I can't really wrap my head around it. Josh Gordon and I obviously think very differently.

Correct. The general consensus is a 180 lb. man will "process" 1 "avg" drink per hour. A 12 oz. beer, a standard glass of wine, or 1 standard mixed drink.

At 230 lbs, the BAC level would be less than for a 180 lb man.

Based on that, Josh had more than 2 beers and 2 drinks on a 4 hour flight WITH an additional 4 hours allowed to test.

So, did he have more to drink? Did he wait until 3 hours into the flight to drink? WHAT was he drinking - a typical "light" beer (think Coors Light, Miller lite, Bud lite) is 4.2% alcohol. Drink a Budweiser? That's 5% I believe. Have a craft beer, some can be as high as 9-10%.

Have a mixed drink? What's it mixed with? is it 50 proof? 80 proof?

The key here is, Josh knew (whether he admits it or not) that he was subject to alcohol testing. If he didn't know it, he failed, his agent failed, and his attorney failed, and the Browns failed. I find it impossible to believe his agent didn't tell him, his lawyer didn't tell him, the nfl didn't tell him, and the Browns didn't tell him.

Consequently - he knew and chose to ignore it. Seems to be a pattern for him.

I'm not saying what he is saying is true, but he said he got the message when he landed, not that it was sent when he landed. We don't know how long he had from the time he landed.

Also, because I have no experience with it myself, does "process" mean 0.000 BAC?

Yes. However, it's a "rule of thumb." There are always exceptions. What was the alcohol content of the beer you drank? Had you eaten anything (not eating while drinking raises your BAC much quicker - but you eliminate the alcohol quicker as well. Eating slows the absorption of alcohol, but the alcohol, albeit at a lower level, lingers in your system longer.)

Again, it's a rule of thumb. 1 12 oz beer, one "normal" glass of wine, or 1 shot or mixed drink is out of your system after 1 hour. (and the caveat is: what was the alcohol content of that beer/wine/drink)

Alcohol "tolerance" means nothing in regards to BAC - meaning a person that is a regular heavy drinker can appear fine, even at a BAC of way over the legal limit, while a person that doesn't drink often, or much, can appear drunk at under the legal limit. (jmo - but not really jmo. There is evidence/proof available if one wants to look at it/for it.)

About 22 years ago, I had a dui. I got to spend a weekend in "school". Learned a lot. Even learned you can get a dui while riding bike. You can also be charged with impaired driving even if you are under the legal limit, etc.

Anything Gordon or his agent write is really just hearsay. It doesn't matter. The only thing that really matters is what he tests at. He was not allowed to drink alcohol because of his DUI, he's subject to random testing and must show up within four hours of being notified, and he tested over the threshold of .06.

The letter was just a last ditch effort to sway public opinion against the NFL. In isolation, a year suspension for 'testing positive for alcohol' does sound ridiculous and people will obviously run with it. But when you factor in Josh's history, the DUI, and the actual wait time and threshold for testing I really don't think it's ridiculous at all. At most any other job, he would have had to take a permanent unpaid vacation a long time ago.

I had harsh words for Josh in the 'punk' thread. I am formally retracting those words.

As often as he's tested, I'm sure he kept himself clean until after our last game, and if he gets suspended for that-as far as I'm concerned they're just nitpicking.

To an extent, I agree. However, I believe someone else mentioned - the season isn't over until after the Superbowl. Rules are rules - abide by them, you'll never have a problem. THAT seems to be where Josh screwed up.

I don't believe that. In fact, part of the reason why I post in these threads is it pisses me off that I think Gordon is flat out lying to Browns fans, whom I think deserve better.

I say that if he indeed mistakenly took a prescription for codeine, release the results of all the drug tests he has taken since his rookie year. The threshold for total morphine and codeine is 300 ng/ml. If he's telling the truth, we should see one test above that and the rest at 0 ng/ml.

Similar thoughts about weed, unless he regularly hung out in small, poorly ventilated rooms with lots of people smoking blunts and in his position I can't find an excuse for that either.

Alcohol... all the rest of his tests were 0.00%, right? Only a very small number of people know the answer to that and Josh is the only one who can make that info public. But he won't, and I think it's because he's full of it. Would love to be proven wrong.

And what about the other failed test(s)? If you read through the policy, he has to have had at least 4 failed tests while in the NFL to get to where he has gotten. More would also make sense. We just haven't heard about it/them because the punishment would have been a fine only (not announced) and it would not fit the narrative that Josh has been an innocent victim, always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yeah, I wish the league would lay off the guy.

I mean, for Christ's sake, he almost made it a full year without failing a drug test. He went a full four months without getting arrested. What else do they want?

Get off the poor guy's back already.

j/c:

Kelvin Benjamin is older than Josh Gordon....

Saw that info from a tweet and it surprised me. Josh is still very young. I have no clue what is in store for him, whether here or another team. But I hope he gets his act together. Outside of his failed tests, he comes across as a competent kid. Moreso than other NFL players I've heard/seen.

I'd be such a waste of talent to see him fall in line with other players who just end up never "getting it."

He's only 23 but it could end up being a sad story quickly.

So, in other words, outside of consistently screwing up, he's a good kid?

I have no doubt he'll learn from this. Of course, I had no doubt he'd learn from his past screw ups and suspensions.

Prove it Josh. Go a year without a positive test. Quit talking, start doing.

I was going to back off on Gordon since so many people have turned on him, but man........I hate "logic" like this.

How do you not understand that multiple offenses are more serious than one offense?

Seriously?

A guy makes one mistake. Your radar is increased, but it's one mistake. He makes two mistakes.......your like...dude, it's time to cool it. But, when a guy makes 10 mistakes in a short period of time, as in every freaking year, your like........dude, you are an idiot.

Another thing.......the NFL does not comment on the suspensions. You are all believing everything Josh says. Yeah, the same Josh Gordon who hangs around convicted felons, has been busted multiple times, quit on his teammates, etc, etc.

Are you really that gullible?

It's like how almost everyone of you believed the cough medicine story.

No, it couldn't be purple drank. It was cough medicine. He just had one beer. One toke from a joint.

Wow.

Essentially, yes.

And its predicated on the fact I don't think what he has been in trouble for is all that bad. However, what is tested negative for (if found in violation) is against league rules and is something he has to be responsible for. That's life, and like you said, I also have no doubt he'll learn from it....it just might end up being too late regarding his NFL career. Who knows?

I don't know how many of you know people who have substance abuse problems, but I know quite a few.

Actually, a lot of them are really nice people. A mother of one of the kids I coached was so generous, she would give you the shirt off her back. Great heart. Very kind. Unfortunately, she had a drug and alcohol problem and she literally did give the shirt off her back--along w/all her other clothes and had to sell herself to feed her drug habit. She sold her husbands car for some crack. Not a lot of crack. Just some crack. She kept getting arrested. Jailed. Prison. Was always going to change. She lost 3 great kids. She lost her husband. She lost her family.

It's really sad. Nice person. No discipline and could never quit.

I tried talking to you guys long ago about this. It's not about someone being a bad person, it's about getting that person some help. But even w/help, it's ultimately up to the individual to accept the help and to admit there is a problem. Until he/she does that....they are going to keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over. Sure, they will be sorry for a bit and say all the right things, but ultimately they slip back into the same old destructive routine.

They hurt themselves. They hurt others. It's no matter because getting high is more important.

Josh may be a nice person. Josh may be a horrible person. I don't know enough about him to be sure. But Josh is not worth millions of dollars because you can't rely on him.

Courtney Brown was a great individual. He could not stay healthy. The Browns dumped him like he was a piece of trash.

Ty Detmer was a great guy. He just didn't have much talent. We dumped him unceremoniously.

I actually feel more sorry for guys like that than a guy who has great talent and had been given chance after chance after chance after chance after chance after chance after chance...........

So, stop the guilt trip posts. They are not effective.

Love the kid but he is in the state of DENIAL ...

Um........."guilt trip posts"? Did you read my post, or did you wrongly quote me?

Please clarify for me.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

That part was not directed towards you at all.

Just the part about some people w/drug problems are actually nice people.