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I think I must agree with your summary PPE.
When you combine "what we get in trade value" with the "financial ramifications" of this years cap and next's,the answer will present itself.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Amazing to me that this guy is ALREADY making noises about wanting out. See ya !
Well if this isn't proof positive that he 'knows he's outclassed by Thomas going into the competition" nothing does.
I read in the NYC paper this morning Savage made the call to the Giants after we selected Joe.
Joe Thomas #73
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Well,it seems there are somewhat conflicting reports here. But that NY report really doesn't add up. I mean why would Savage reply in this manner............. Quote:
"At this time, we are going to maintain our depth at the position," Browns General Manager Phil Savage said in an e-mail response.
...................If he contacted them? Wouldn't it make more sense that a team NEEDING at LT would contact us? I mean now that his agent has come out publicly,possibly. Unless his agent made this request before the draft on the condition of drafting Thomas and we were simply unaware of it?
Who knows at this point?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The giants reportedly offered a 4th round pick. It didn't work out. Now we are "maintaining"
Joe Thomas #73
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Giants in trade talks for Browns' tackle Tuesday, May 1st 2007, 4:00 AM * Print * Email * Suggest a Story * Read Ralph Vacchiano's The Blue Screen blog The Giants have two options at left tackle this season, David Diehl or Guy Whimper. But they haven't ruled out adding a third. During the draft over the weekend, they had discussions with the Browns about trading for Cleveland's starting left tackle last season, Kevin Shaffer. The Browns called the Giants soon after drafting Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas with the third pick in the first round, according to a league source, but the Giants felt the price - reportedly a fourth-round pick - was way too high for a player entering just the second year of a six-year, $36.5 million deal. If the Browns' asking price goes down, talks for the 27-year-old Shaffer could be revived. The Giants have been looking for a veteran left tackle since they cut Luke Petitgout in February. So far they've been reluctant to move Diehl from left guard, and on Sunday both GM Jerry Reese and Tom Coughlin indicated that Whimper, last year's fourth-round pick, has had a good offseason and is now a candidate, too. "There are still some things that we can do at left tackle," Reese said Sunday. "But right now if we had to go we would go with who we have." Ralph Vacchiano Link
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With top draft pick Joe Thomas penciled in at left tackle for the Browns, the agent for Kevin Shaffer said he will ask the team for permission to seek a trade.
Shaff, here's a hint for you buddy. Your getting 36 million bucks, nod your head up and down, say yes sir, and bust your arse to play anywhere on the line the Browns ask you to.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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"At this time, we are going to maintain our depth at the position," Browns General Manager Phil Savage said in an e-mail response.
That's a pretty big statement. Depth at the position. Sounds like a backup LT to me.
PPE: Thanks and I agree w/you that there is a possibility that it could turn around this year, which would be wonderful.
ncdawg:
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LT-Thomas, LG-Steinbach, C-Fraley, RG-Bentley, RT-Tucker.
That would be nice, but I think it's going to be:
LT: Thomas
LG: Steinbach
C: Fraley
RG: McKinney
RT: Tucker
HotB:
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I think RAC favors Tucker at RT anyway.. IMO.. he's a lot stronger than Shaffer, but I could just be making that up..
LMAO..................classic! You know..........the "I could just be making that up" part. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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If Lenord Davis can get a gillion dollars from the Cowboys we can get something for Kevin Schaffer,
Phil will make the move when the time is right, I dont feel he thinks before training camp or even during the beginning of training camp is the right time either. Phil will wait and see where Bently is in his return, How J.Thomas is adapting to the life of the NFL, and see where Tucker is in his return. If all these things or even Joe & Tucker are ok, I see us trading Schaffer mid August late august.
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LMAO. The G-men will have left tackle with the name Guy Whimper. Now, if he doesn't strike fear into people, I don't know what will.
Phil: Do NOT trade Shaffer for anything less than a 4th. I think even that is a low-ball offer, although all one has to do is look at his production last year to see that a 4th really isn't too bad for him. Don't do it, not yet.
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If the Browns' asking price goes down, talks for the 27-year-old Shaffer could be revived. The Giants have been looking for a veteran left tackle since they cut Luke Petitgout in February. So far they've been reluctant to move Diehl from left guard, and on Sunday both GM Jerry Reese and Tom Coughlin indicated that Whimper, last year's fourth-round pick, has had a good offseason and is now a candidate, too.
This is a team with no left tackle on their roster. Their plan is to move RG David Diehl to tackle and hope he plays OK.
Well looks we're not the only ones who's saying Shaffer sucks; it's the New York Giants.
The guy must totally suck if the Giants would rather have a 4th round pick considering their circumstances.
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The Browns called the Giants soon after drafting Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas with the third pick in the first round, according to a league source, but the Giants felt the price - reportedly a fourth-round pick - was way too high for a player entering just the second year of a six-year, $36.5 million deal.
I don't care if the guy wants out. I wouldn't trade him for less than a 4th rounder. I am not sure if I would trade him for a 4th rounder. With that said, I don't think teams will offer more than that, but we could end up w/another Antonio Perkins in the 4th round. 
Unless a desperate team like the Giants offers us more value than Shaffer is worth, I would keep him and allow him to compete at RT and RG, and/or provide depth at LT, RT, and RG if he doesn't win a job outright. He could give us a lot of versatility. Lord knows, we suffer OL injuries every freaking year.
One last thought...........wasn't it nice to hear about another team's LT woes?  
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Just Clickin Vers,
I hope the story about Phil asking for a 4th is wrong, cause to me Shaffer is more valuable to us as insurance in case of injury during training camp or if Thomas isn't ready to start from day 1. I would like to see us keep him until some team has their starting LT go down and then hopefully that team is desperate enough to give up a 3rd for him.
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Live, Love, Laugh
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Thank you dawg66, did we learn nothing last year? we cheered and yaahooooed like crazy men after LCB was signed. we were set and much improved. life was grand. then..... "SNAP" LCB DONE!!!!!!! Faine GONE. OL cooked. Keep Shaffer here this season. Romeo's job may depend on it. I would laugh at a 4th round offer, so I hope that is a false report regarding Phil's asking price. If true the Giants should have Jumped on it like I would on Kate Beckinsale 
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Well,I sort of figured "you" might find it funny.
But you see,some of understand we need upgrades on the DL too. There are still "needs" rather than "depth" to be addressed.
IF the Giants are the one in "great need" in this trade,and the one's seeking a trade,do you think it's funny to trade a "LT that grades out at a D" for tha "DE that grades a B"?
You see,right now we NEED upgrades on the DL far more than DEPTH at OL. I'm not for trading Shaffer nor am I against trading Shaffer
But what I see as reasonable,and not "funny" at all,is IF we can make a NECASSARY upgrade on the DL in exchange for DEPTH on the OL,I can see that as a "realistic possibility".
I don't see that as "all that amusing" but if you do? Party on Garth.
That's all well and good but apperently the Giants don't see it that way.
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That's all well and good but apperently the Giants don't see it that way.
Wonder how Eli Manning see it.......
Eli here's the LT thats gonna be guarding your blind side...Meet Mr. Whimpy....
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I don't care if the guy wants out. I wouldn't trade him for less than a 4th rounder. I am not sure if I would trade him for a 4th rounder.
I'm sure. I wouldn't.
If he's not going to fetch a 1st day pick, he doesn't go anywhere. Work him at right tackle and right guard during camp and see how he stacks up. I believe he can start somewhere on the right side. Tucker can't last much longer. See if he can at least play on par with the aging Tuck. If he can, Tuck can go next season and Shaffer can STFU and play right tackle.
Savage would be a fool to dump him for less than a 1st day pick when penciling in Tucker at right tackle is such a huge gamble.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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That's simple P. If we don't get value as it pertains to what he's worth to "us",you keep him. See,we're starting to have "options" we didn't have before. Now from where I'm sitting,that's a positive sign. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Personally this is one time I would dig in my heals as Phil.
We over paid (at the time) for Shaffer so he does what we want, or we get what we' want, to let him go.
We just gave Steinbach 49 million so the going market is much better than when we over paid for his services.
Right now Shaffer is worth his money and it's ridiculous to take a 8 million cap hit for his bruised ego.
Also, look how hard it was to find even 'good' quality in FA for OT. We need the depth.
This is the time when he can bluster or threaten all he wants, but when practice starts and his money is at stake, I say he comes in with his tail between his legs and plays.
I don't see even Shaffer, who has little leverage or game (proven) at this time, sitting out or not playing. This would only diminish his value even more. He benefited from our desperation when signing him and had his chance to keep his job, so screw him.
Oh, and without a first pick we need a first day pick even more so, so if Shaffer or his agent doesn't like it then let them go find us a 3rd round pick or shut up and play where ever we ask. 
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j/c...
If we trade him, it's probably just because Phil thinks we have too much money wrapped up in the O-Line. If we trade him, it's because he isn't staying at LT (Obviously he won't with JT here now, but JT could start out at guard like Baltimore did with Ogden his first year), and he doesn't feel like we should be paying him LT money to play RT, or even be a backup if Tucker plays RT. JMO.
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If we trade him, it's probably just because Phil thinks we have too much money wrapped up in the O-Line.
I can't agree with that at all.
If we had too much money tied up in the O-line, we wouldn't have gotten back on the horn with Deilman after we signed Steinbach.
You MUST keep in mind that Shaffer's contract was structured so that the VALUE of it gets BETTER as the years go by:
2007: $815,000,
2008: $2.9 million,
2009: $2.65 million,
2010: $2.9 million,
2011-2012: $3.4 million,
So as the cap goes up several million each year, $800k in '07 is too much? 
We're going to be paying him average RIGHT tackle money very soon, and as '09 and '10 comes along, he'll be paid average GUARD money.
At one point I questioned whether or not Savage would dump more money into the line. I was wrong. So are you
Necktie's contract gets BETTER with age, not worse. It's not as though we're a team that has to cut salary because we're busted up against the cap. We still have MILLIONS is cap space, and no contracts over the next couple of years that will come back to haunt us.
Trading Necktie would be about getting value in return. Frankly, if it does turn out Savage signed Shaffer with idea that he really was supposed to be a left tackle all along, it was a desperate move by a desperate man and it was a poor one. Now the flipside is that he made a great move by securing our salary cap health so that he COULD move someone like Necktie without hamstringing the franchise.
Getting a 1st day pick would be good value for him. Letting him walk for anything else would be stOOpid.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Thanks for the contract numbers. I didn't know them, I just figured we were paying him LT money right now. If we were paying him LT money then I would be all for trading him.. but if we are paying him RT money, then we should keep him for depth.
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Sure thing.
It's far too easy to get caught up in the hype of contract numbers. A guy can have an $80 million dollar contract, which is what the media uses to sell sensationalism, but what they don't tell you is that the last year of the contract calls for him to have a salary of $20 million bucks, hehe.
In Shaffer's case, the bulk of the contract was paid in the signing bonus early. From there, his salary is very reasonable, and gets even more reasonable as he goes into the future.
To give you an example, on the surface it looked like we paid Bentley the exact same $36 million that we paid Shaffer. But an examination of Bentley's contract shows that he's slated to earn $6 million per year in '10 and '11.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Shaffer can go somewhere else and be a below-average LT there, or he can stay here and earn a position on the right side.
Does he want to be an average/competent RT, an above average RG or a below average LT?
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Okay all of you o-line gurus just answer this simple question: who would you rather have at right tackle; Schaffer or Tucker? Either way I say don't trade Schaffer unless it is for a second rounder at least and if you are certain that we have enough cap room if a crisis would come up (knock on wood).
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Browns | Shaffer wants out
Tue, 1 May 2007 08:22:01 -0700
Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns OT Kevin Shaffer will ask the team for permission to seek a trade. "I think Kevin, in our dialogue, would welcome an opportunity to go somewhere else," agent Alan Herman said Monday, April 30.
From KFFL
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I don't think that this is going to become a major issue. From most of what we've heard, Shaffer is a stand up guy. Sure he's going to ask for a trade, and see if something that can be worked out, but I don't think he's the type of guy whose not going to show up at camp, or the type of guy whose not going to work hard if asked to move to a different position.
There's no way we should trade Shaffer unless we get a great deal for him, I'm thinking a second rounder or better. (Not because he's worth that, but because that would be too much to turn down). He's still an average NFL LT, and I think he could be well above average at RT or RG. Time will tell if he's worth his contract size there. However, when he was signed, there was talk that while he was average as an LT, he would a great RT, and a possible pro-bowl caliber RG. This will of course remain to be seen, but above average RTs and RGs are worth the type of contract he has nowadays.
I really like to think about having a line like this next year:
Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Tucker, Shaffer
and with Bentley in:
Thomas, Steinbach, Bentley, Tucker, Shaffer
That my friends, is the strongest line we've had in years, and a top 5 line in this league. We've been waiting too long for this to throw it away now.
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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Sounds like we might have a Lance Briggs on our hands
Did I miss something? When did we put the franchise tag on Shaffer? lol He is not Lance Briggs! If he will redo his contract and give us some cap relief, I would let seek his trade and see what we can get in return. I don't want anymore players here that Dont Want to Be Here! If he is this scared of being replaced by a rookie, then good riddance! Competition makes everyone better! JMHO Go Brownies!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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1-he can re-structure his contract if he wants to go somewhere badly (or buy us out ala our fomer "best in the NFL left tackle", lol)
2-and the real cost is opportunity cost. if he keeps us, b/c of his salary, from getting a strong right guard that would be a shame.
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Unless he is going to give back signing bonus money, there is no cap relief from the cost of trading or releasing him.
A restructure will only take care of monies that would be owed in the form of salary or bonuses not yet paid. We've already paid the signing bonus, that genie is out of the bottle and it is what we are facing absorbing in a trade.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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got it. he can give back signing money, then, if he feels that strongly about getting out-worked for LaVar Arrington, rofl!
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only Verba is dumb enough to hand back that much money.... and Verba only gave back around $500K... Shaffer is looking to cost us millions.
It ain't happening.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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What happens if we tarde him for a guy around the same salary. Can each team pick up the bonus for each guy and absorb no penalty at all?
I thought I heard something like that before.
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Ya heard wrong.... or it's an MLB/NBA thing The cap hit for his signing bonus is ours and ours alone, no way out of it other than him repaying it. It cannot be traded or bartered away. It is money that has already been paid out, but while he is under contract we are allowed to only count a portion of it each year against the books. Once he is no long under contract with us, we must account for every remaining penny. The one and ONLY exception would be a Post-June 1 transaction that would allow us to have to account for only 50% this season and then the remainder next season.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That sucks. Get rid of him asap then huh?
If he is afraid of competition and wants to whine we don't need him. Like I said in another thread, trade him to Dallas for Julius Jones.
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Well, this is where you have to weigh the value of what you can get versus the value of him on the team while keeping in mind what it is going to cost you to move him.
The trade off we get is a future one, but we pay a painful price this year, one that I don't know if we really want to do it and I don't know enough about Julius Jones of late to have an opinion on whether or not he would make me change my mind.
I think currently, Shaffer's best value to us is as a backup. As for the "I want out" thing, folks are blowing that WAY the heck outta proportion.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That's all fine and good and I would like to see him stay but I can't see paying out a 36 million dollar contract to a backup. Now if he could move over to the right side and would be willing to do that then that is a whole other story.
Jones is one heck of a back. The only problem is that Marion Barber seems to be better. Jones seems to be the workhorse and Barber seemed to get the goalline situations prior to last year. Barber really took quite a few carries from jones this year.
He still managed to put up 1084yds on 267 carries witha 4.1 avg. he only had 4 touchdowns.
Barber Had 14 touchdowns and 654yds on on 135 carries for a 4.8 avg.
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Either way I say don't trade Schaffer unless it is for a second rounder at least and if you are certain that we have enough cap room if a crisis would come up (knock on wood).
Shaffer is like my '95 F150 w/ an 8 ft bed.
I'd like to get rid of it because I don't "start it" everyday...but I know that it is worth way more to me - sitting in my garage - than whatever price it would fetch.
So...I pay the insurance and use it when I need it -or when a buddy needs it - which might explain why I have so many friends
I want a 2nd rounder...at the least. Otherwise, we keep him and exercise the injury demon that has plagued us for so long. (Meaning...if we don't really need him, no one will get hurt thereby leaving us with an abundance of happiness to complain about...  )
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Schaffer needs to buckle up his chin strap, and play football just like he's getting paid for. I am so tired these prima donnas that think they dictate what who and where they play football for. Shaffer... you took your bonuses, you're getting your contract money,... now,... PLAY FREAKING FOOTBALL! 
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who is this kid.. lol.. a 7th round pick with the balls to request a trade.. lol..
be quiet and strap up... WORK!! and work HARD!!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Schaffer trade????????????
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