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I don't really agree with this. All the desire and dedication in the world isn't going to turn Johnny Manziel into Russell Wilson. Manziel's biggest obstacles are the size, power, speed and complexity of the NFL's defenses, IMO. Wilson.. 4.55. Johnny 4.56. Wilson.. 5'11". Johhny 6'0". Wilson's arm strength 55 mph.. Colt McCoy was 56 mph. I think it's safe to say Johnny's got every bit of arm Colt does. http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/ Your wrong.. it's all between the ears. He needs to dedicate to the craft... get better foot work... get in the play book... get more reps. If he does this he can be Wilson. Jump balls.. how about some of those throws last night by Wilson. Those are great throws by the way. 1 on 1 with a guy who can sky you take that all day long. Not sure why thats considered a knock. To me thats smart football.
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Manziel ran 4.68 at the Combine, not 4.56. He may be a shade taller than Wilson, but their lack of optimum height is where the similarities end. Look at their bodies; Wilson is a big man thats not tall. Manziel, by comparison, appears small and frail.
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A lot of what you ask, is in the hands of the OC and HC...the QB coach usually will do what is asked of him. Mechanics I'm sure is #1 on the list. Reads I'm sure is Class room. Usually the individual units will have film sessions with their UNIT COACHES...then meet with the OC for the big picture.
If we wish for JM to start and he needs to learn a lot I can see a lot of one on one time with the two. I would do it. Not to ignore the other 2 or 3 QBs.
Another thing to note. 90% of the QB coaches input will be done in the camps, prior to the start of the season. Then we go to Game mode. Different preparation.
Wilson vs Manziel...everyones an expert...lol 
When the finished product is out or even the product is finished as in we don't view him as valuable.
Then we can say he isn't a Wilson or what I hope we end up saying is Wilson is no Manziel.
I would like to add - I watch entire games of Manziel...not hilight reels. I saw a heck of a lot to be positive about besides the play yard buy some time and hit a kid long. I saw him play against some excellent Defenses. I saw him play to the pocket collapsing. I saw him go to his tutors (of which we basically just hired) to improve from the pocket, not learned from his college coaches. On his own. I saw a remarkable improvement, I think some stat aficionados had him very high marked in the pocket.
I don't think a special Offense needs to be made for him...definitely some tweaks. Like Hoyer not there its Manziel add some QB draws. More boot legs where Hoyer liked a more traditional play action. Also Manziel is excellent going to his left. I also think its not that representative of what he could what we saw with his two starts. He and the entire O looked confused. Without a doubt.
He is no where as bad as the experts - this board and outside think he is. Does he have a lot of work to get to where we would want. Heck yeah. I said that before he was drafted. I said it after he was drafted. I said it when Hoyer was named starter and the same experts here (SOME) were craving him to start.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Just heard that Manziel has entered treatment...for what, I'm not sure...
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Just heard that Manziel has entered treatment...for what, I'm not sure...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Anyone have any observations on Roper? He was always WAY too nosy. Always up in Jack's business.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Either way, the biggest obstacle for Manziel is Manziel. I don't really agree with this. All the desire and dedication in the world isn't going to turn Johnny Manziel into Russell Wilson. Manziel's biggest obstacles are the size, power, speed and complexity of the NFL's defenses, IMO. And an atrocious hand off! I swear every hand off he was running in to the RB. You can't fix physical size. He's short, that's the way it is. So is Wilson. What makes Manziel different than Wilson is what goes on between his ears. JMHO
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Anyone have any observations on Roper? He was always WAY too nosy. Always up in Jack's business. Mrs. Roper wasn't happy about it either! Well played, Purp!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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So we got the coach who made Johnny Money the man he is today??
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So we got the coach who made Johnny Money the man he is today?? No, we got the guy Johnny & his agent hired to polish Johnny up for his Pro Day & the Draft.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Anyone have any observations on Roper? He was too conservative to allow a man to live with two women, but a gay tenant was acceptable? Never understood the logic.
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Wait for it.... WAIT....wAiT fOr It.............
What's a Kevin O'Connell????????????????????????????
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Well I guess he's done working out Mariota as the Browns made the announcement official: Browns Hire Kevin O' Connell
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Pettine also hires former Browns' former player personnel staff (2013) Frank Edgerly as assistant receiver coach. This is an interesting hire. Below is a blurb talking about the Banner hired. Toward the end Frank gives kudos to Banner. Frank's comments: Is Banner solely responsible for the team's results? No. But you can't ignore his impact on the team.
"Joe deserves a lot of credit for everything we're doing here in Cleveland right now," Browns general manager Ray Farmer said. "He either identified, helped to identify or orchestrated the acquisition of a number of the folks in our leadership structure. He was the impetus for putting this group together."
Farmer, who played for Banner's Eagles in the mid to late 1990s, was the Chiefs' director of pro personnel for seven seasons (2006-12). He wasn't initially inclined to leave and work for Banner in Cleveland, but Banner aggressively pursued him, and ultimately convinced him to come to work for the Browns. That one move alone, according to senior pro scout Frank Edgerly, changed the franchise's trajectory.
"The best decision Joe made when he got to Cleveland was getting Ray Farmer here," Edgerly said. "What [Farmer] has done, not only in helping to shape our roster, but in using some of that equity Joe had built up to ignite and electrify the entire culture here, it's been a game-changer."
In addition to hiring Farmer, Banner hired Edgerly, team president Alec Scheiner, executive vice president Sashi Brown and head coach Mike Pettine. Much as he did in Philadelphia, he surrounded himself with talented, though sometimes unconventional selections, to help him run his teams.
But Banner did more than hire folks to the front office. He was also particularly adept at managing the salary cap and did well when it came to personnel decisions.
"Joe understood when he started in Cleveland that 2013 would be a transitional year," Edgerly said. "That allowed us to stockpile for the future. We wanted to put ourselves in position to really take a significant instead of incremental step forward.
"He knew some of the moves we were going to make wouldn't be popular, but I don't think Joe has ever been concerned with what the mainstream or popular opinion is. He was always concerned with what was right for us moving forward. He's never been afraid to go against the tide of public opinion to make sure he did what's right for the team."
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Wait for it.... WAIT....wAiT fOr It.............
What's a Kevin O'Connell???????????????????????????? well he is a third round draft pick that could not beat out brian hoyer as a backup QB that never coached in the nfl. but for a sample of his work he did help get johnny ready for the nfl before he was drafted.  O’Connell worked closely with Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel in the months leading up to the 2014 NFL Draft, focusing specifically on film study and the mental part of the game.
Last edited by pblack18707; 02/17/15 04:23 PM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I still think O'connell was hired more as someone for manziel than for a pipe dream of drafting Mariotta.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Johnny's workout last year, he looked like a gifted natural thrower. Then when we ssaw him in camp and preseason with them working on his mechanics, he looked like a robot trying to aim instead of a someone dropping and popping. I thnk it is a good move by the Browns. If Flip and O'connel cant get it out of Johnny, then it was just never in him to be an NFL QB.
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Wait for it.......Drumroll........
Here it comes..............
What's a Kevin O'Connell?
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Johnny's workout last year, he looked like a gifted natural thrower. Then when we ssaw him in camp and preseason with them working on his mechanics, he looked like a robot trying to aim instead of a someone dropping and popping. I thnk it is a good move by the Browns. If Flip and O'connel cant get it out of Johnny, then it was just never in him to be an NFL QB. That's pretty much where we are at.
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Outside of us, their fan base, the Browns are a pariah in the NFL. Shanahan totally dissed the organization by quitting outright instead of waiting to be hired by another team first. Finding experienced NFL coaches to work here is next to impossible at this point.
I like this hire, just like I did the hiring of DeFilippo. Instead of trying to find lower level experienced coaches willing to work for the Browns, they are tapping hungry young coaches looking for a chance to get in on the ground floor. With all this inexperience, there will be growing pains. But if we show patience and let them grow together, the result could well be a staff working well together for a long time.
Last edited by W84NxtYrAgain; 02/17/15 05:13 PM.
1. #GMstrong
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3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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Now he has to stage a drunk driving scenario and call in anonymous so cops show up and give him a DUI....get put in the same Rehab as JM...
Voila the instructing begins! 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Now he has to stage a drunk driving scenario and call in anonymous so cops show up and give him a DUI....get put in the same Rehab as JM...
Voila the instructing begins!
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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there will be growing pains. Growing pains.... A Cleveland Browns tradition since 1999.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Now he has to stage a drunk driving scenario and call in anonymous so cops show up and give him a DUI....get put in the same Rehab as JM...
Voila the instructing begins! well done...
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Wait for it.... WAIT....wAiT fOr It.............
What's a Kevin O'Connell???????????????????????????? Kevin O'Connell: Hired as yet another Browns coach in Feb 2015...Fired sometime after the 2015 season...THE END!
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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In addition to hiring Farmer, Banner hired Edgerly, team president Alec Scheiner, executive vice president Sashi Brown and head coach Mike Pettine. Much as he did in Philadelphia, he surrounded himself with talented, though sometimes unconventional selections, to help him run his teams.
But Banner did more than hire folks to the front office. He was also particularly adept at managing the salary cap and did well when it came to personnel decisions.
"Joe understood when he started in Cleveland that 2013 would be a transitional year," Edgerly said. "That allowed us to stockpile for the future. We wanted to put ourselves in position to really take a significant instead of incremental step forward. Probably 100-200 people read this, ignored it, and all said a little prayer that "Vers" would not see it. LOL.............not one comment from you guys. Why? Because it doesn't fit into your ...what was that Rish.........your "black/white world where you refuse to accept or acknowledge ideas that don't fit into your agenda?" Haslam screwed up big time by firing Banner.
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"The best decision Joe made when he got to Cleveland was getting Ray Farmer here," Edgerly said.
Vers: Perhaps you missed this quote from the same article...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I didn't miss it.
I believe it was a good hire by Banner. He was hired for a position in which he had experience, which was Director of Pro Personnel. Maybe you missed that?
He is now overseeing the draft. That is a position he had no experience in. Perhaps you missed that?
And nice job of deflecting what I said onto something else. I like you as a person 32, but as a poster, you are closer to guys like Memphis, cfrs, Daman, PDR, etc.
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In addition to hiring Farmer, Banner hired Edgerly, team president Alec Scheiner, executive vice president Sashi Brown and head coach Mike Pettine. Much as he did in Philadelphia, he surrounded himself with talented, though sometimes unconventional selections, to help him run his teams.
But Banner did more than hire folks to the front office. He was also particularly adept at managing the salary cap and did well when it came to personnel decisions.
"Joe understood when he started in Cleveland that 2013 would be a transitional year," Edgerly said. "That allowed us to stockpile for the future. We wanted to put ourselves in position to really take a significant instead of incremental step forward. Probably 100-200 people read this, ignored it, and all said a little prayer that "Vers" would not see it. LOL.............not one comment from you guys. Why? Because it doesn't fit into your ...what was that Rish.........your "black/white world where you refuse to accept or acknowledge ideas that don't fit into your agenda?" Haslam screwed up big time by firing Banner. before the season i said banner/lombardi had alot to do with how this season. and until the gm and hc they hired were gone. i said 12 win or two win alot of it is on banner/lombardi. now they brought in farmer/pettin. how do you think they did if you look at it that way?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Again, I thin Farmer was an excellent hire for what Banner hired him to do. Director of Pro Personnel. He had experience at that job.
I really like Pettine. I think he did a very good job this year. I am thankful that Banner talked Haslam out of hiring Schianno, or whatever his name is, and hired Pettine instead.
Aren't you?
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Again, I thin Farmer was an excellent hire for what Banner hired him to do. Director of Pro Personnel. He had experience at that job.
I really like Pettine. I think he did a very good job this year. I am thankful that Banner talked Haslam out of hiring Schianno, or whatever his name is, and hired Pettine instead.
Aren't you? well i wrote what i did while you were posting. lol. as far as pettin? i have no respect for a coach who cannot control the locker room.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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He was hired for...Director of Pro Personnel. Perhaps nit-piking, but he was hired as assistant General Manager.And you're correct, he had little experience in running a draft...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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How did he not control the locker room?
He was faced w/a multitude of problems.
He had Manziel out partying all the time and a media frenzy surrounded the guy.
He had Gordon lurking and when he did come back, he wasn't into it.
He had Gilbert being late for practices and meetings.
West was a problem because he didn't always practice hard.
He dealt w/a multitude of injuries.
And while you may blame Pet for some of the actions of the first few players, remember this..........it has been reported that the FO interfered w/roster and playing time decisions.
His coaches were frustrated by the idiotic influence that guys like Farmer, Scheiner, and Haslam had on coaching decisions.
Somehow, Pettine kept the team together. I actually feel sorry for the poor sap. The problem was not between Pet and Shanny or the other coaches. It was between a meddlesome FO and the coaching staff.
I think Pettine is now the best thing that the Browns have going for them.
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I think Pettine is now the best thing that the Browns have going for them. Something we can agree on. The man did have his hands full, especially considering it was his rookie season...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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How did he not control the locker room?
He was faced w/a multitude of problems.
He had Manziel out partying all the time and a media frenzy surrounded the guy.
He had Gordon lurking and when he did come back, he wasn't into it.
He had Gilbert being late for practices and meetings.
West was a problem because he didn't always practice hard.
He dealt w/a multitude of injuries.
And while you may blame Pet for some of the actions of the first few players, remember this..........it has been reported that the FO interfered w/roster and playing time decisions.
His coaches were frustrated by the idiotic influence that guys like Farmer, Scheiner, and Haslam had on coaching decisions.
Somehow, Pettine kept the team together. I actually feel sorry for the poor sap. The problem was not between Pet and Shanny or the other coaches. It was between a meddlesome FO and the coaching staff.
I think Pettine is now the best thing that the Browns have going for them.
the four players you said and add tate, and the crow while not as bad as the ones you said it was talked about. as far as shanny and the text and all that crap. pettin didnt back him up. the guy is a spineless jellyfish as far as i can tell.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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He kinda did back Shanny up. He spoke of their conversations before his vacation. There were no problems between them.
And he didn't take it any further because he is trying to hold things together. Heck, if it comes down to a guy who is no longer here and his employers, he is going to make the smart decision.
Look, I have been bad-mouthing the FO, but I try to be fair. I am NOT one of those guys who "they are all evil" or "they are all saints."
I liked Haslam at first, but his actions have made me think he is a buffoon.
I was neutral on Farmer, but he has come across as an arrogant, controlling, stubborn guy who is in over his head.
I was neutral on Pettine, but he has won me over because he is dealing w/a lot of dysfunction from the powers that be and he is trying to hold things together.
Sadly, he will probably be the next one to go.
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Look, I have been bad-mouthing the FO, but I try to be fair. I am NOT one of those guys who "they are all evil" or "they are all saints."
I liked Haslam at first, but his actions have made me think he is a buffoon.
I was neutral on Farmer, but he has come across as an arrogant, controlling, stubborn guy who is in over his head.
I was neutral on Pettine, but he has won me over because he is dealing w/a lot of dysfunction from the powers that be and he is trying to hold things together. i agree with all this but pettin. i think he is weak with players and the front office. JMO.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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That's fine. We disagree and we didn't insult one another. That's kinda unique, huh?
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That's fine. We disagree and we didn't insult one another. That's kinda unique, huh? didnt really like it. kinda left a hollow spot deep in my guts.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Vers, I thought the hiring of Edgerly and O'Connell showed Pettine is wanting technique/details coached. Hired O'Connell who is a private QB teacher. Edgerly a former pro scout. Coming from New England you know it all about the little stuff.
Another interesting observation why was Edgerly let go as a scout last year and hired back as a coach this year?
As for Banner, his biggest mistake hiring Lombardi. If Banner originally started with Farmer, I think this whole mess could have been avoided. Lombardi's personality, regardless of his past, was an odd fit. I am ok with giving a guy a second chance. Instead of Lombardi coming looking to make right. He came in and rubbed everyone raw. Forcing Banner out of his role playing PR guy.
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