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#922609 02/02/15 12:54 PM
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Sharia Law
Islamic Sharia Law


Shariah lawSharia law is the law of Islam. The Sharia (also spelled Shariah or Shari'a) law is cast from the actions and words of Muhammad, which are called "Sunnah," and the Quran, which he authored.

The Sharia law itself cannot be altered, but the interpretation of the Sharia law, called "figh," by imams is given some leeway.

As a legal system, the Sharia law covers a very wide range of topics. While other legal codes deal primarily with public behavior, Sharia law covers public behavior, private behavior and private beliefs. Of all legal systems in the world today, Islam's Sharia law is the most intrusive and strict, especially against women.

According to the Sharia law:

• Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand (above).
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Muhammad is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam is punishable by death.
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
• Girls' clitoris should be cut (per Muhammad's words in Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
• A woman can have 1 husband, but a man can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.
• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife but a woman needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A man can beat his wife for insubordination.
• Testimonies of four male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman.
• A woman who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).
• A woman's testimony in court, allowed only in property cases, carries half the weight of a man's.
• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits.
• A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).
• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.
• Meat to be eaten must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be Halal.
• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.
• The list goes on.

Where in the world is the Sharia law actually in use?

Muslims' aspired Sharia-ruled state is Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Muhammad. It has no legal code other than the Sharia, which is enforced without mercy (see Sharia law in Saudi Arabia). But the Sharia law is also used in full or in part, nationally or regionally in:

• Afghanistan (89%)**
• Algeria
• Austria*
• Bahrain
• Bangladesh (82%)**
• Brunei
• Canada*
• Comoros
• Djibouti (82%)**
• Egypt (74%)**
• Eritrea
• Ethiopia
• France*
• Gambia
• Germany*
• Ghana
• India
• Indonesia (72%)**
• Iran
• Iraq (91%)**
• Jordan (71%)**
• Kenya
• Kuwait
• Libya
• Lebanon
• Malaysia (86%)**
• Maldives
• Mauritania
• Morocco (83%)**
• The Netherlands*
• Nigeria
• Oman
• Pakistan (84%)**
• Palestinian territories (Gaza strip & the West Bank - 89%)**
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Somalia
• Spain*
• Sudan
• Sri Lanka
• Syria
• Tanzania
• Thailand (77%)**
• Uganda
• United Arab Emirates (UAE)
• United Kingdom*
• United States of America*
• Yemen

* In the United States of America, Canada, United Kingdom, and other European countries that resist the penetration of Sharia law, it has proven adept at infiltrating elements of the society that are left vulnerable (see Sharia law in America and the Islamization of America).

** Percent of Muslims who favor making Sharia the official law in their country (source: Pew Forum Research, 2013). In many countries where an official secular legal system exists alongside Sharia, the vast majority of their Muslim citizens favor making Sharia the official law. For example, while the Egyptian military may have blocked the Muslim Brotherhood's efforts in this direction, 74% of Egypt's Muslims still favor it. Even in Jordan, Indonesia and Malaysia - Muslim countries with progressive images - the relatively secular ruling elite sit atop Muslim masses, 71%, 72% and 86% respectively of whom want their countries to be ruled by Sharia. And in Iraq, where the United States shed blood and money for over a decade to try to plant democracy, 91% of its Muslims want to live under Sharia.

www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-law.html

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This post shows exactly why a military solution is not really a solution to the problem. We simply do not (thank God) have enough military assets to make the military the only, or even the main solution.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Found this interesting. The percentages of Muslims who want Sharia law are astounding!
--------------------------------------------------------------

As the number of court cases that involve conflicts between civil law and Sharia law rise in America, majority of American states have introduced bills banning courts from accommodating Sharia law.

But those bills have been stalled by well-financed challenges in court by Muslim groups that also campaign against politicians who sponsor and/or support such bills. Oklahoma's law banning Sharia law from courts has been struck down, and only six other conservative states (Louisiana, Arizona, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Kansas) have been able to pass Sharia law-limiting legislation, and only after watering them to not even mention the word, "Sharia."

• Muslim taxi drivers are challenging local authorities for the right to refuse to pick up blind passengers with seeing-eye dogs, while Muslim supermarket cashiers are challenging their employers for the right to refuse to sell products from pigs. Both are considered unclean in Islam.

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/america-sharia-law.html

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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
This post shows exactly why a military solution is not really a solution to the problem. We simply do not (thank God) have enough military assets to make the military the only, or even the main solution.


Looks that way, doesn't it. I don't see where they are looking to become part of America but instead are looking to make America part of them.

We already have a Constitution, thank you.

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On the other hand, I found this...

Shariah Law: The Five Things Every Non-Muslim (and Muslim) Should Know

1.What does Shariah mean?

Shariah is the law of the Qur'an and literally means "A path to life giving water." In fact, the word Yarrah (i.e. the root of the Hebrew word Torah) means precisely the same thing. Therefore, Shariah is actually ingrained in Abrahamic tradition.

Shariah is comprised of five main branches: adab (behavior, morals and manners), ibadah (ritual worship), i'tiqadat (beliefs), mu'amalat (transactions and contracts) and 'uqubat (punishments). These branches combine to create a society based on justice, pluralism and equity for every member of that society. Furthermore, Shariah forbids that it be imposed on any unwilling person. Islam's founder, Prophet Muhammad, demonstrated that Shariah may only be applied if people willingly apply it to themselves--never through forced government implementation.

Additionally, the Qur'an does not promote any specific form of government, but requires that the form people choose must be based on adl or "absolute justice." The Qur'an says, "Verily, Allah enjoins justice, and the doing of good to others; and giving like kindred; and forbids indecency and manifest evil and transgression. He admonishes you that you may take heed" (16:91). Notice, religious preference is never mentioned. Therefore, in ruling with absolute justice, for example, the righteous Jewish King Solomon ruled as a just monarch based on this fundamental principle of Shariah Law--justice.

2. Do Muslims want Shariah to rule America?

No. Remember, the Qur'an teaches that religion must not be a matter of the state. Shariah is a personal relationship with God. Prophet Muhammad, even as the de facto ruler of Arabia, wrote the Charter of Medina in which Muslims were held to Shariah Law, and Jews to the Law of the Torah. Not a single non-Muslim was held to Shariah because Shariah itself forbids compulsion. The Qur'an clearly says, "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:257). Furthermore, Shariah obliges Muslims to be loyal to their nation of residence. Therefore, American Muslims must adhere to the US Constitution as the supreme law of the land.

3. If Muslims don't want Shariah to rule America, then so what if it's banned?

First, Shariah is a personal relationship between a Muslim and God. The First Amendment forbids Congress from passing laws that restrict the free exercise of religion--particularly private exercise. Second, if Shariah was banned, then American Muslims could not marry, inherit, write wills or choose to divorce per Islam's guidelines. If similar restrictions were imposed for other faith groups, then no Minister could conduct a marriage ceremony, no Catholic Bishop could read the last rites and no Rabbi could perform circumcision on an infant male Jewish child--because these are all Judeo-Christian religious laws. Even within our current legal system, American Jews regularly resolve civil matters through rabbinical courts known as beit din. American Muslims simply want to enjoy their same constitutionally guaranteed right.

4. What does Shariah say about other religions?

Shariah law champions absolute freedom of conscience and freedom of religion. For example, the Qur'an goes as far as to oblige Muslims to fight on behalf of Jews, Christians and people of other faiths and to protect their churches, synagogues and temples from attack. (22:41) Furthermore, Shariah holds that to be a Muslim, a person must testify to the truth of all past prophets, including Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Krishna and Buddha--and must respect their adherents. When Prophet Muhammad peacefully became the ruler of Arabia, his primary condition for non-Muslims (and Muslims) to reside in Arabia was that they allow all people of all faiths--be they Jews, Christians, Muslims or idol worshipers--to worship in peace and without oppression.

5. What about countries that oppress people and claim they follow Shariah?

Such countries have ignored the fundamental tenet of justice inherent in Shariah Law, and have instead used Shariah as an excuse to gain power and sanction religious extremism. To be sure, not a single example of a "Shariah compliant" country exists. In fact, the most "Muslim country" in the world is likely America, because America guarantees freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of thought--all hallmarks of Shariah Law. Those nations that oppress in the name of Shariah are as justified in their claims, as the slave owners who claimed their right to slavery was based on the Bible.

As for the "violent" verses from the Qur'an that are cited by both extremists and critics--honest legal interpretation abhors quoting an excerpt as a means to understand the full law. Unfortunately, both extremists and critics refuse to adhere to this basic principle. In sum, Shariah law guides a Muslim's personal relationship with God, just as the Old and New Testaments guide Jews and Christians in their personal relationships with God. These paths to life-giving water are nothing to fear.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim-rash..._b_1068569.html

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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
This post shows exactly why a military solution is not really a solution to the problem. We simply do not (thank God) have enough military assets to make the military the only, or even the main solution.


The best solution might to be for them to become Americans.

-If a Muslim man tries to marry a baby or consummate the marriage at age 9, he is going to prison in America.

-If a Muslim man's wife says I ain't wearing this burka anymore and he slaps her, she can divorce his butt and take at least half of everything he owns in America.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
This post shows exactly why a military solution is not really a solution to the problem. We simply do not (thank God) have enough military assets to make the military the only, or even the main solution.


The best solution might to be for them to become Americans.

-If a Muslim man tries to marry a baby or consummate the marriage at age 9, he is going to prison in America.

-If a Muslim man's wife says I ain't wearing this burka anymore and he slaps her, she can divorce his butt and take at least half of everything he owns in America.


Islam already grants women the ability to divorce (though in very limited settings, however still very advanced considering they aren't in Christianity or Judaism).

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it's not just limited, it's incredibly difficult.

For a man to divorce all he has to do is say talaq 3 times and it's done. It may take a waiting period in some areas but that is it.

For a woman to divorce she either needs the husbands consent, prove sexual impotence on the part of the husband, or prove her basic needs (housing etc) aren't being met. If the woman is underage she cannot initiate divorce.

Either way it is one of the ways in which islamic/sharia law is oppressive to women.


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So, Christianity, or Judaism, gives women more rights in regards to divorce?

How about more rights, period?

Would you be interested in living in a country under sharia law? I'm not.

gage #922665 02/02/15 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: gage
it's not just limited, it's incredibly difficult.

For a man to divorce all he has to do is say talaq 3 times and it's done. It may take a waiting period in some areas but that is it.

For a woman to divorce she either needs the husbands consent, prove sexual impotence on the part of the husband, or prove her basic needs (housing etc) aren't being met. If the woman is underage she cannot initiate divorce.

Either way it is one of the ways in which islamic/sharia law is oppressive to women.


No it's not. The laws and rules of Islam have evolved since then. However, women's rights in marriage were granted sinec Islam's founding, that cannot be said of Christianity or Judaism. It's not oppressive to women, it's more enlightened than their counterparts. At the time those rules (again, not followed by the majority of Muslims like 99% of Muslims don't follow those rules), it granted rights to women that Christianity and Judaism would never dream of doing.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
So, Christianity, or Judaism, gives women more rights in regards to divorce?

How about more rights, period?

Would you be interested in living in a country under sharia law? I'm not.


They didn't at the time that the laws were written.

Women have been given more rights under Islam than any of the other Abrahamic religions.

I don't believe living under any laws that are provided by a book of fiction.

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Yes, it's just ONE of the ways sharia law is oppressive.

What about gays?

What about education for women?

What about pre set up marriages?

What about honor killings?

Sharia law is whacked............

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Islam is all for the education of women. Women are also allowed to own property in Islam. Honestly, reading the Quran after reading the Torah and the Bible, you really have to wonder what the hell happened to the philosophy in the Abrahamic region.

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg


No it's not. The laws and rules of Islam have evolved since then.


? So, the rules of islam have evolved since "then"? And the "rules of christianity haven't????
Quote:


However, women's rights in marriage were granted sinec Islam's founding, that cannot be said of Christianity or Judaism. It's not oppressive to women, it's more enlightened than their counterparts. At the time those rules (again, not followed by the majority of Muslims like 99% of Muslims don't follow those rules), it granted rights to women that Christianity and Judaism would never dream of doing.


??? Women's rights in islam are better than in Christianity?.........are you talking about history, or today?

I'd like to see where women, under sharia law, have more rights than women, in a Christian nation.

You think muslim women have more rights than Christian women?

Maybe we're discussing 2 different things.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg


No it's not. The laws and rules of Islam have evolved since then.


? So, the rules of islam have evolved since "then"? And the "rules of christianity haven't????
Quote:


However, women's rights in marriage were granted sinec Islam's founding, that cannot be said of Christianity or Judaism. It's not oppressive to women, it's more enlightened than their counterparts. At the time those rules (again, not followed by the majority of Muslims like 99% of Muslims don't follow those rules), it granted rights to women that Christianity and Judaism would never dream of doing.


??? Women's rights in islam are better than in Christianity?.........are you talking about history, or today?

I'd like to see where women, under sharia law, have more rights than women, in a Christian nation.

You think muslim women have more rights than Christian women?

Maybe we're discussing 2 different things.



Yes, we're talking about the texts itself, not the application of the texts. Because, we have to keep in mind, the application of religion to a national extent is just a power move and is no longer about the relationship between God and person.

By the by, that's what religion is. The relationship between yourself and your God. Not my relationship with your God, or your relationship with my God. Which is why we need to keep religion out of government entirely.

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Ah...........so, you're talking the "texts".....not the reality of either religion. I understand a bit better now.

The reality is much different, and I was talking about reality, and sharia law.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Ah...........so, you're talking the "texts".....not the reality of either religion. I understand a bit better now.

The reality is much different, and I was talking about reality, and sharia law.


No, you're talking about the application of the texts by a group. For example, Jesus has said time and time to turn the other cheek when attacked. However, you cannot build around this idea as a nation, so the application of "turning the other cheek" was never developed on a national or a group level. You can see that in any thread where the current war in the Middle East is discussed. Because it's impossible for a nation/group to secure their assets and guarantee their people's safety with that philosophy. The reality is that only the text that was "written" by "God" is the only thing to base your religion off of.

You're not talking about the reality of the religion, but rather the reality of nation building. Because what the U.S. thinks Christianity is, based on the texts, it isn't. The same can be said of Islam and IS, Iraq, Boko Haram and others with Islam.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING

Found this interesting. The percentages of Muslims who want Sharia law are astounding!
--------------------------------------------------------------

As the number of court cases that involve conflicBbbts between civil law and Sharia law rise in America, majority of American states have introduced bills banning courts from accommodating Sharia law.

But those bills have been stalled by well-financed challenges in court by Muslim groups that also campaign against politicians who sponsor and/or support such bills. Oklahoma's law banning Sharia law from courts has been struck down, and only six other conservative states (Louisiana, Arizona, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Kansas) have been able to pass Sharia law-limiting legislation, and only after watering them to not even mention the word, "Sharia."

• Muslim taxi drivers are challenging local authorities for the right to refuse to pick up blind passengers with seeing-eye dogs, while Muslim supermarket cashiers are challenging their employers for the right to refuse to sell products from pigs. Both are considered unclean in Islam.

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/america-sharia-law.html


Yes, and it will get crazier and crazier in this country. When the time comes that the Muslim population is greater than any other in this country, the Constitution will become nul and void. Sharia will prevail. It is only a matter of time, perhaps decades.


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Originally Posted By: Cjrae


Yes, and it will get crazier and crazier in this country. When the time comes that the Muslim population is greater than any other in this country, the Constitution will become nul and void. Sharia will prevail. It is only a matter of time, perhaps decades.


Well the Constitution may become null, once they pry my smoking rifle from my cold dead hands.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg


No it's not. The laws and rules of Islam have evolved since then.


? So, the rules of islam have evolved since "then"? And the "rules of christianity haven't????
Quote:


However, women's rights in marriage were granted sinec Islam's founding, that cannot be said of Christianity or Judaism. It's not oppressive to women, it's more enlightened than their counterparts. At the time those rules (again, not followed by the majority of Muslims like 99% of Muslims don't follow those rules), it granted rights to women that Christianity and Judaism would never dream of doing.


??? Women's rights in islam are better than in Christianity?.........are you talking about history, or today?

I'd like to see where women, under sharia law, have more rights than women, in a Christian nation.

You think muslim women have more rights than Christian women?

Maybe we're discussing 2 different things.


Muslim, Christian and Jewish Women's Rights as American citizens means they will have their bum husband jailed, take at least 60 percent of all he owns, and have possession of his children. After that, he can pay child support until they are done with college.

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Originally Posted By: Cjrae
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING

Found this interesting. The percentages of Muslims who want Sharia law are astounding!
--------------------------------------------------------------

As the number of court cases that involve conflicBbbts between civil law and Sharia law rise in America, majority of American states have introduced bills banning courts from accommodating Sharia law.

But those bills have been stalled by well-financed challenges in court by Muslim groups that also campaign against politicians who sponsor and/or support such bills. Oklahoma's law banning Sharia law from courts has been struck down, and only six other conservative states (Louisiana, Arizona, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Kansas) have been able to pass Sharia law-limiting legislation, and only after watering them to not even mention the word, "Sharia."

• Muslim taxi drivers are challenging local authorities for the right to refuse to pick up blind passengers with seeing-eye dogs, while Muslim supermarket cashiers are challenging their employers for the right to refuse to sell products from pigs. Both are considered unclean in Islam.

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/america-sharia-law.html


Yes, and it will get crazier and crazier in this country. When the time comes that the Muslim population is greater than any other in this country, the Constitution will become nul and void. Sharia will prevail. It is only a matter of time, perhaps decades.



huh??????

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Originally Posted By: Lurker
Originally Posted By: Cjrae
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING

Found this interesting. The percentages of Muslims who want Sharia law are astounding!
--------------------------------------------------------------

As the number of court cases that involve conflicBbbts between civil law and Sharia law rise in America, majority of American states have introduced bills banning courts from accommodating Sharia law.

But those bills have been stalled by well-financed challenges in court by Muslim groups that also campaign against politicians who sponsor and/or support such bills. Oklahoma's law banning Sharia law from courts has been struck down, and only six other conservative states (Louisiana, Arizona, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Kansas) have been able to pass Sharia law-limiting legislation, and only after watering them to not even mention the word, "Sharia."

• Muslim taxi drivers are challenging local authorities for the right to refuse to pick up blind passengers with seeing-eye dogs, while Muslim supermarket cashiers are challenging their employers for the right to refuse to sell products from pigs. Both are considered unclean in Islam.

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/america-sharia-law.html


Yes, and it will get crazier and crazier in this country. When the time comes that the Muslim population is greater than any other in this country, the Constitution will become nul and void. Sharia will prevail. It is only a matter of time, perhaps decades.



huh??????


Sharia supporters challenging laws and rights in this country will increase as cited in this thread. Eventually, with the influx of Muslim groups, the constitution will be secondary to Sharia. It may take a while, but if the trend continues, it will happen.


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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
No it's not. The laws and rules of Islam have evolved since then. However, women's rights in marriage were granted sinec Islam's founding, that cannot be said of Christianity or Judaism. It's not oppressive to women, it's more enlightened than their counterparts. At the time those rules (again, not followed by the majority of Muslims like 99% of Muslims don't follow those rules), it granted rights to women that Christianity and Judaism would never dream of doing.


I don't care how Islam stacks up to Christianity or Judaism because I feel Christianity has enough problems of its own with oppression of women and I'm not knowledgeable enough on Judaism to comment or care.

But to say that Islam is not oppressive to women is laughable. The status of polygamy in the Quran alone is a testament to this.

From the horses mouth so to speak:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/no...n-not-equal-men

I'm sure Homa Darabi immolated herself because Islam is progressive to women as well.

Is there a difference between Islam as written and Islam as practiced? Absolutely. But the Islam as practiced is what concerns me, just as Christianity as practiced concerns me.


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Do some research. Research Nonie Darwish, an Egyptian (Cairo) born woman. Her harrowing narrative on Sharia Law details some real life experience. Her book "Cruel and Usual Punishment: Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law" is a solid read on this topic.

I posted her narrative in the other thread and will not do so again. Look it up.....or not. Believe a person who lived it ..or not. Turn a blind eye and you may wake up one morning with a gun to your head demanding you proclaim your faith and following of Allah.

Well, probably not, the impact in this country will most likely be dramatically less than that. However, it will impact this country on some level. Just check out Dearborn Michigan. Should an American non-Sharia woman have to dress accordingly and follow Sharia simply to walk through a part of her city because the folks who inhabit that part of the city practice Sharia Law?

Will it be acceptable in this country for a person practicing Sharia Law to have sexual intercourse with a nine year old because that behavior is acceptable under Sharia Law? Or would the said behavior be considered molestation, endangering the welfare of a child or rape under the American justice system?

These are the types of issues our court systems will be addressing spending tax payers dollars.

War will not solve the issue. Neither will dialogue. This is ingrained in some Muslim children since birth. They know no other way. However, as Americans, we must hold fast to the foundation this country was built on. Live and let live. How will this work in the good ol USA?


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Quote:
Just check out Dearborn Michigan. Should an American non-Sharia woman have to dress accordingly and follow Sharia simply to walk through a part of her city because the folks who inhabit that part of the city practice Sharia Law?


I don't think anyone is subject to Sharia Law in Dearborn, MI.

Quote:

Will it be acceptable in this country for a person practicing Sharia Law to have sexual intercourse with a nine year old because that behavior is acceptable under Sharia Law? Or would the said behavior be considered molestation, endangering the welfare of a child or rape under the American justice system?


If I had to guess, I would say that we'll probably go ahead and say that Muslims can rape kids. I imagine anyone in a region under the rule of Sharia law would be able to rape kids, as well.

Tough to say, though. It's a complex issue.

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We have many, many law makers in this country who proudly proclaim they follow their Christian values when voting.

Many times those votes have nothing to do with keeping government out of our lives.

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Originally Posted By: rockdogg
We have many, many law makers in this country who proudly proclaim they follow their Christian values when voting.

Many times those votes have nothing to do with keeping government out of our lives.


But this is the age of more government in our lives, why would you be unhappy with that? My concern is they are running out of things to regulate, then what?

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I think all religions are by their very nature oppressive.

I personally think that Sharia Law is laughable and only an absolute idiot would defend it... But I was not raised thinking that this is how life is and that the Islamic life was the only "right" way to live.

It becomes impossible to penetrate 1000's of years of mental/cultural programming (brainwashing) to bring about any significant change. So I kind of feel like if that is how they choose to live let them. HOWEVER, I draw the line when they think they have the right to dictate or force their beliefs on me. I wouldn't shed a tear if they draped a big tarp over the entire muslim world and fumigated it.

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Originally Posted By: PDR
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Just check out Dearborn Michigan. Should an American non-Sharia woman have to dress accordingly and follow Sharia simply to walk through a part of her city because the folks who inhabit that part of the city practice Sharia Law?


I don't think anyone is subject to Sharia Law in Dearborn, MI.

Quote:

Will it be acceptable in this country for a person practicing Sharia Law to have sexual intercourse with a nine year old because that behavior is acceptable under Sharia Law? Or would the said behavior be considered molestation, endangering the welfare of a child or rape under the American justice system?


If I had to guess, I would say that we'll probably go ahead and say that Muslims can rape kids. I imagine anyone in a region under the rule of Sharia law would be able to rape kids, as well.

Tough to say, though. It's a complex issue.


Talk about your constitutional catch 22! Under US laws, the rights and protections of the individual outweigh the rights of religious practice. Look at all the cases against mormons for child marriage. Nobody is legally raping children here.

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I think PDR was being just a weeee bit sarcastic smile

I can't speak for all religions but I do know both Islam and Christianity have problems with oppressing women. Islam based on my research and Christianity based on first hand accounts as one who grew up in a fundamental baptist family.

Are there liberal tenets of each faith? absolutely. But their core scripture has alot of explaining to do when it comes to the treatment of women.

Bible:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - If a man rapes a virgin then he has to marry her and pay her father off. Good luck for the virgin who got raped!

There are so many old testament atrocities to women I wont bother from here. A common 'issue' I'll get is people saying the old testament was usurped by the new testament, so let us jump straight there:

Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18, Titus 2:5 - Wives are to submit to their husbands as their husbans submit to God. Clearly sets up a dominant role and submissive role. Good job Paul!

1 Peter 3:7 - Women are the weaker vessel.

1 Timothy 2:9-15 - I love this set of passages. First women are to be plain, then are to be silenced and subjected. And then say that it was all Eves fault we're here in the first place for Adam was not deceived. *Snaps Fingers*


I can keep going but I wont. Onto the Quran!

Sura 2:228 - There is alot of great stuff in this about divorce, but the verse also makes clear that men have a degree over women in authority and responsibility

Sura 4:11 - Men get double the inheritance of women.

Sura 2:282 - You need a man to witness a contract of loan, but if all you have are women, you need two. Cuz ya know, women can't be expected to remember these details like a man could.

Sura 4:34 - If your woman steps out on you it is your job as the husband to strike her and put her back in her place. Progressive indeed!


The Quran also makes mention of sex slaves and polygamy and other unsavory details. Fun stuff.


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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: PDR
Quote:
Just check out Dearborn Michigan. Should an American non-Sharia woman have to dress accordingly and follow Sharia simply to walk through a part of her city because the folks who inhabit that part of the city practice Sharia Law?


I don't think anyone is subject to Sharia Law in Dearborn, MI.

Quote:

Will it be acceptable in this country for a person practicing Sharia Law to have sexual intercourse with a nine year old because that behavior is acceptable under Sharia Law? Or would the said behavior be considered molestation, endangering the welfare of a child or rape under the American justice system?


If I had to guess, I would say that we'll probably go ahead and say that Muslims can rape kids. I imagine anyone in a region under the rule of Sharia law would be able to rape kids, as well.

Tough to say, though. It's a complex issue.


Talk about your constitutional catch 22! Under US laws, the rights and protections of the individual outweigh the rights of religious practice. Look at all the cases against mormons for child marriage. Nobody is legally raping children here.


OldCold, you are correct. However, there are Sharia communities, attempt to enforce Sharia on their own accord. Women, especially, are threatened, verbally attacked, and mockd if they do not comply to Sharia within those particular communities. My friend can attest to that up close and personal.


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Quote:
Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18, Titus 2:5 - Wives are to submit to their husbands as their husbans submit to God. Clearly sets up a dominant role and submissive role. Good job Paul!


Women are expected to take the submissive role, just as we take that role in the church of Jesus Christ. Men are expected to care for, love, and subject themselves to the best interests of their wives, just as Jesus did for us (His church) during His life, when He sacrificed His life for us.

[1 Peter says: Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.


It is easy to take one line out, without context. Context makes all the difference in the world. This is the verse that was used in a political campaign, much in the same manner, where the candidate came off as really creepy, when they repeated, over and over, "wives, submit yourself to your husband".


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I always have to chuckle when modern men sit in judgement of the ways of men thousands of years ago. Times were different, lives of entire communities were wiped out by bad water, famine, crop failures, disease and more. They knew nothing of nutrition or germs and bacteria. Even into more modern times, the people of Europe did not know why the beer drinkers thrived but water drinkers died. (you boil the water to make beer).

The Old Testament is about God choosing a people of ignorant slaves and building them into a Civilization. Once they followed the rules he set forth, they thrived.

Wash your hands before you pray to God! Pray before you eat! Eat. To a people who had no idea what a germ was, this was a life saver. They worked with the animals and in the dirt but were probably the only people on the planet who washed their hands before they ate.

It was all about survival and growing a Civilization back then and modern man has come so far we may find those rules silly or unnecessary.

Just like we know that slavery is evil today but 300 years ago it was seen as a necessity.

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You would think that God would want to say something along the lines of 'Don't kill people with rocks if they shave their beard' or 'don't enslave people' before he got to 'wash your hands'.

Then again, he's the omnipotent wizard, not me.

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If you were God, you would probably say those things. I can only imagine a Civilization created by god PDR, where the suicide rates are 99 percent. willynilly

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It's funy how you guys are part of a screwed up religion, yet are trying to make it seem like the other guys are worse.

Christians and Muslims have laws that oppress the crap out of women.

The ONLY difference is our government doesn't allow you guys to legally oppress females, because if they did, Yall absolutely would.


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: rockdogg
We have many, many law makers in this country who proudly proclaim they follow their Christian values when voting.

Many times those votes have nothing to do with keeping government out of our lives.


But this is the age of more government in our lives, why would you be unhappy with that? My concern is they are running out of things to regulate, then what?


My point was that Christian representatives who vote on their religious values tend to want MORE government in our lives, not less, which they and their supporters claim to want.

Not sure what in that statement would cause you to ask me why I would be unhappy with more.

Also, how can you complain about one theocracy while supporting another?

Shouldn't the campaign be "Eliminate ALL Theocracies!"?

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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Women are expected to take the submissive role, just as we take that role in the church of Jesus Christ. Men are expected to care for, love, and subject themselves to the best interests of their wives, just as Jesus did for us (His church) during His life, when He sacrificed His life for us.


I don't think I'm taking these verses out of context when I was taught in baptist school that women are to be submissive to their husbands. How is that not oppressive? If someone is cherry picking it wasn't me, it was Bob Jones University who provided the textbooks at our school. And this has been my crux with organized religion. I grew up in a fundamentalist christian home but haven't gone to church in over 10 years. The last church I went to the pastor was skimming money from the tithe plate and that was the last straw for me. I had it with flawed men and their interpretations of the Bible to fit their interests. I believe the same occurs with the Imams and how they read the Quran as well.

I don't begrudge anyone their religious views, I just think religion works best when it is able to adapt to the present. Fundamentalists christians and Fundamentalist muslims alike want to hold onto their old ways to the detriment of their followers, for example the women.


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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Quote:
Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18, Titus 2:5 - Wives are to submit to their husbands as their husbans submit to God. Clearly sets up a dominant role and submissive role. Good job Paul!


Women are expected to take the submissive role, just as we take that role in the church of Jesus Christ. Men are expected to care for, love, and subject themselves to the best interests of their wives, just as Jesus did for us (His church) during His life, when He sacrificed His life for us.

[1 Peter says: Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.


It is easy to take one line out, without context. Context makes all the difference in the world. This is the verse that was used in a political campaign, much in the same manner, where the candidate came off as really creepy, when they repeated, over and over, "wives, submit yourself to your husband".


Sorry Ytown, I understand what you're saying, but when I read within the context it says, "may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives"
and that pretty much says, "Don't talk".

Then it says, "Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit"
and that quote sounds like more "Don't talk"
with a little, "Be nice" thrown in.

"They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord."
That says, "Submit".

On the other hand "treat them with respect as the weaker partner" can have an ambiguous meaning.
It probably means "weaker" physically, but in the context of the rest it kind of sounds like "weaker" in understanding God without their husbands' help.

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Quote:
I had it with flawed men and their interpretations of the Bible to fit their interests.


that is a major problem with religion, no doubt. one of the reasons that I go to the church that I do is that the pastor prefices many of his services with "don't take my word for it, read it yourself. figure out what it means to you."

men are biased and flawed. it's just the nature of being man (or woman). it's one of the bigger components of Jesus' teaching that it's more important to be in good graces with God than man (as he rebuked the Pharisees and Sadduccees).


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