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Normally I would never suggest a rookie QB even see the field. (I'm also not saying he should now. Just posing the question)
Assuming there is no vet. brought in to tutor him and we go into the season with the QB we have now. How long till Brady gets the call to start?
I don't believe there is much Frye could teach him about the position that he doesn't already know.
It's my understanding that it takes most QB 3 years to learn the pro game. The first is spent learning the offense. This is something he is already familiar with as I understand we will be running a similar offense to the one he ran in college. The terminology will be the big thing for him to learn.
The second year is the year that most QB start to understand what the defenses are trying to do and begin to start reading a Defense better. This is where it will take Brady time to adjust to the pro game.
The third season is when the game should finally start slowing down.
The other argument for not starting a rookie is to not let him get killed and ruined before he ever has a chance to succeed. Some would say that the O-line should be much improved this year than any line we have since our return in 99'. So is that a legitimate concern.
I don't know the answer to these questions I'm just tossing it out for discussion.
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Game 1... 2008 
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The second day of training camp.
Touted as the most "NFL ready" QB, he should show Charlie Frye for what he is a 3rd round homer pick.
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If we dont get a vet to be a mentor.....I think he will start week 1.
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September 9, 2007, bring on the Steelers.
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I would be completely comfortable with FRYE for the games leading to the Bye Week...
But WISH for Quinny...
Go Browns!!!
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It's hard to say. In all honesty I'm hoping Chuck just lights it up this season and we can sit on BQ untill 2008. That would give Quinn a year to learn the system and also give the team a VERY tradeable commodity in Frye (which would be HUGE since we don't have a #1 in 2008).
With that said, I really don't see a scenario in which Frye beats out Quinn in a truly open QB competition. Weiss says he's the most NFL ready QB he's coached.......that is some HIGH, HIGH praise from a very respected offensive NFL guru.
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Week 9
I figure our record will be pretty poor and they will go ahead and start him. It will allow the offensive line to gel (hopefully)
I hope Chuck lights it up and Quinn can wait a year but I doubt that...
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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I don't think Charlie is going to give up. That's not his style. He'll come out hoping to recreate a "Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation". It would be a nice problem to have. Charlie finally playing well enough to win while Brady is on the bench learning. That would be ideal.
I just hope the fans aren't booing Frye in game one on his first incompletion (if he gets the start due to the Browns wanting Quinn to sit for a while and learn).
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Everyone is assuming that Quinn is going to take the job.
Not so.
Frye has every opportunity here to KEEP his job. If he continue's to have an 80's rating going through the season, Quinn won't see the field. There's nothing the Browns would like more than to have TWO viable QB's. It's the one position where having two good players is NEVER a bad thing.
Now going on the assumption that Frye can't turn the corner, he'll start until we're a couple of games past the "official out of the playoff picture" category. Quinn will have had time to learn the offense and can then get his feet wet.
Back when people yammered that Frye shouldn't start in year one at all, I attempted to point out that starting him after we were out of the playoff picture did several things. First, it got his feet wet. Second, it allowed the players to get used to him (a severely overlooked aspect of developing a rookie QB). Third, it allowed the organization to evaluate him. That was one of my most fevered points, in that he was a project QB who had serious limitations. The sooner we had a chance to see what we had, the sooner we had the chance to make the final call and go from there.
Well, two years later we've made the determination that he's a poor bet. Had we not started him those final 5 games (or whatever it was) we may not have traded up to get Quinn, and been stuck with Frye. We'd also have waited one more year to acquire a future QB, without the guarantee that we'd have been able to land one.
Very important stuff there.
So the cycle completes itself. Frye will start until the rook is ready and we're out of the playoff picture, unless he's doing well then we don't have to rush Quinn at all.
So, having said all that, when do I think he'll start? The last six games or so of the year.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Now going on the assumption that Frye can't turn the corner, he'll start until we're a couple of games past the "official out of the playoff picture" category. Quinn will have had time to learn the offense and can then get his feet wet.
Like I said week 9
Go Browns!!
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If 08 is the real target here, Quinn will start 12 games this season and play in 14..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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At least you didn't say week 4
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If he doesn't hold out at all, I hope he starts by game six against the Dolphins.
If he does hold out, Charlie Frye is the guy for the year.
Sort of like Brees/Rivers in San Diego, where reports were Rivers was going to start his rookie year until he held out, and then Brees started and had his breakout year.
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Quote:
If he doesn't hold out at all, I hope he starts by game six against the Dolphins.
If he does hold out, Charlie Frye is the guy for the year.
Sort of like Brees/Rivers in San Diego, where reports were Rivers was going to start his rookie year until he held out, and then Brees started and had his breakout year.
Everyone likes to bring up the Brees/Rivers thing but didn't they have this guy...what's his name...he had like 1000000000 rushing TD's this past year... oh yeah that RB dude...suppose to be real goood...
I honestly dont think that is a very good comparison on any level.
Go Browns!!
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Week 9
I figure our record will be pretty poor and they will go ahead and start him. It will allow the offensive line to gel (hopefully)
I hope Chuck lights it up and Quinn can wait a year but I doubt that...
It just kills me that seemingly everyone is totally happy to write of the 2007 season. I am not excited about the prospects of another 6-10 season as CF keeps the spot warm or BQ makes rookie mistakes.
If the Browns go 6-10 behind the rookie QB, it won't matter a whole lot because the Browns have no first round selection in 2008 to draft an impact player.
Someone wake me up in 2009 or 2010 when the Browns will supposedly be contenders. 
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I think that is a very good response.
Worst case scenario we are out of the playoffs, Frye is sucking it up and the rookie gets some playing time.
Best case we are playing well ,Frye looks good and Quinn never has to see the field. That would give us a nice piece to trade.
I don't think he will ever look like Brees but the NFL is full of guys that other teams traded to get. Guys like Hasselback, A.J. Feely, and Aaron Brooks. He doesn't have to be Brees for other teams to take a chance.
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Quote:
It just kills me that seemingly everyone is totally happy to write of the 2007 season.
I am not. That is another reason why Quinn should play early.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
If he doesn't hold out at all, I hope he starts by game six against the Dolphins.
If he does hold out, Charlie Frye is the guy for the year.
The holdout will answer this question.
The fact that he was "projected" as a top 10 pick, and that the antichrist Tom Condon is his agent, I honestly don't see him in camp until August 15-20. At that point, barring an utter collapse throughout the preseason with the incumbent(s), I think he rides pine until he can be brought up to speed, which may not be until October/November, depnding on how the team may be doing at that point.
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If our line is an improved as we hope, I don't care who starts...Charlie will be a better player than last season, too. Hard not to be when you aren't on your ass or running for your life 9 out of 10 plays.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Quote:
Quote:
It just kills me that seemingly everyone is totally happy to write of the 2007 season.
I am not. That is another reason why Quinn should play early.
What is your prediction for the Browns 2007 record? How many games will the rookie LT/QB win in 2007?
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Show me 1 team that had a winning season behind a rookie QB? What maybe 1 or 2 in the history of the NFL....yeah real good odds...
Here are examples:
Titans..nope not a winning season= 8-8 (which I would be extremely happy with)
Arizona= nope...a top 5 pick no less
Broncos= nope...Cutler didn't start until week 12, he took over when the Browncos were already 7-4...so he ended up with a 2-3 record...
I hope you guys are beginning to see a pattern...I don't care if Quinn is the most NFL-ready QB in the history of NCAA/NFL, there is thing called a learning curve. It will take time for Quinn to learn the speed of the game. I wish he could sit a year. I don't want to see him start until the back half of the season.
People need to lower their expectations of our draft picks, there are going to make mistakes. Rookie QB's historically do bad...
I think we should finish 7-9 or 6-10..but with our brutal beginning who knows...
Go Browns!!
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Quote:
Show me 1 team that had a winning season behind a rookie QB? What maybe 1 or 2 in the history of the NFL
Right off the top of my head, Big Ben and Bernie.
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Quote:
It just kills me that seemingly everyone is totally happy to write of the 2007 season. I am not excited about the prospects of another 6-10 season as CF keeps the spot warm or BQ makes rookie mistakes.
Look..........I'm not one of the people who crapped his pants because Savage made the trade to get Quinn, as I am apprehensive about it. It is either going to be a great trade or a horrendous trade. No one knows for sure at this point.
With that said.........how can you justify complaining about next year's record in relation to Thomas and Quinn. Do you think the Browns could have had a good record and made the playoffs w/other picks? 
I just don't see much logic from either side on this trade. It's going to take some time to see if the trade was a huge success or a disaster. And Phil Savage said that himself. I'll go look up the quote if you don't believe me.
Will you all play fair?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I will give you Big Ben but Bernie is stretching it....the game of football is much different than it was in the 80's....
I never said there wouldn't be I just started that historically that it happens very rarely..
To the Ben example..do we have same talent level on our defense, offensive line, and running backs the Steelers had?
Go Browns!!
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hopefully 2008 but if its this year i hope its week 12 when the season has basically been determined. if we are 7-9 i will be happy.
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Quote:
It just kills me that seemingly everyone is totally happy to write of the 2007 season. I am not excited about the prospects of another 6-10 season as CF keeps the spot warm or BQ makes rookie mistakes.
I just want to be entertained again on Sunday. Watching football shouldn't be a chore. I shouldn't be watching the Browns on Sunday Ticket and be thinking, man I could be watching 10 other games right now and actually be enjoying it. Can BQ make the Browns exciting again? Can Charlie? I don't really care. I just want to see good football again.
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J/K Fokes, lets not toss Frye under the bus, Charlie has been nothing but a true professional during this whole process, Both will compete for the starting job and push each other and who ever is deemed the starter we all need to back, having two hard working class acts at QB is something every team now day needs and wishs for. I'm sure charlie will greet Brady to the Browns and help each other, They both want the same thing, to bring a winner to Cleveland, Lets say people are right about Quinn, and he does start, it's nice to have a hard nose working QB like Charlie there to step in should anything happen to Brady, Fans lets not make this a Quinn vs Charlie, lets make it a win win for the Browns, we need them both, leadership, class, hard work ethic, talent, add these together and were talking WINS....something that is greatly needed in Cleveland 
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To the Ben example..do we have same talent level on our defense, offensive line, and running backs the Steelers had?
No, we certainly do not.
Thought of one other though, that if I recall led his mediocre team to the playoffs as a rookie - Jake Plummer?
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Vers... I am admittedly heated about this. But, I don't think my opinion lacks logic. In the interest of space, I will try to be brief.
I have said all along, the Browns have MANY needs. I was completely in favor of trading out of the 3 spot to acquire more picks. I am 100% in favor of the Thomas pick. I have nothing against Quinn. I do not like that is cost us a future #1 pick.
I am beginning to question Savage's talent decisions. I have given him a pass on a lot of things.
1)
2005 - draft a 3rd round QB to eventually lead the franchise
2007 - give up 2008 #1 pick & 2007 #2 pick to draft a QB
2)
2005 Trade for a RB. Reuben Droughns produces a 1,200 yard season.
2006 Give RD a 4-year contract.
2006 Trade RD away for next to nothing.
3)
2006 Sign (LT) Kevin Shaffer to a 7-year 36 million dollar contract.
2007 Draft at #3 a LT.
From where I sit, the drafting of Quinn and Wright are acts of desperation. He is hoping throwing another rookie into the fire buys him another two years. For all of his talk when first hired about bringing in character guys... the pick of Wright is striking.
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Quote:
Show me 1 team that had a winning season behind a rookie QB? What maybe 1 or 2 in the history of the NFL....yeah real good odds...
Quote:
I will give you Big Ben but Bernie is stretching it....the game of football is much different than it was in the 80's....
Foot, welcome to mouth.
Dan marino, Young went 8-8 last year. i don't have time to go through every rookie QB ever but i'm sure there are more. not just the 3 that have been named. Rare, yes. But i think we have one of the most talented #3 pick teams in NFL history so it evens out 
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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If Quinn comes in on time, it won't even be close. Brady's gonna blow past #9 faster than Jamal Lewis ran past the Browns defense in 2003. It's a combination of being both that sold on Weis' endorsement of Quinn's preparation, and that I'm NOT sold on that other guy.
IF that doesn't happen, and Quinn is the backup the entire season, that means only one thing...
#9 is deserving of being called by his name again, and we're in the playoffs. I won't complain and I'll GLADLY eat crow and will GLADLY take all the criticism you can mudsling at me for how much I've trashed the guy.
And for those who say "We don't have a first rounder next year so if we suck this year, how can we expect to improve?" The answer's quite simple. We will have saved a ton by getting Quinn in the 20's, even if we have to overpay a bit relative to where he was drafted (I fully expect us to, maybe as high as #15 money, which is still a bargain but I won't exactly be thrilled about that). We will have plenty of money to make a huge splash in FA next year, perhaps as big as we did this year, but I won't bet on that. I expect us to be a bit more reserved in FA, going after just one big catch.
Plus, I think if we're held back this year, it'll be for two reasons.
a) Youth and inexperience, mainly at left tackle (Thomas taking his lumps), corner (I don't expect a rookie to work miracles in the backfield, and unless Baxter pulls a miracle, I'm still weary despite Wright's obvious ability) and QB (where if a career backup isn't playing, a rookie will be.)
b) the defensive line, for obvious reasons.
A will be fixed by next year given the fact that those players will have developed, and I can see B being treated aggressively in FA and possibly round 2 next year.
If Quinn truly is the guy we think he is, his further development in year two will MORE than offset the lack of a first rounder next year.
I'm cautiously optimistic about it, which is very refreshing considering I've felt so negatively about this team for awhile.
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Quote:
Show me 1 team that had a winning season behind a rookie QB? What maybe 1 or 2 in the history of the NFL....yeah real good odds...
Loki,
You think you can let us enjoy the moment for a little more then 48 hours?
Haha....anyway.....
Vince Young took a team with less offensive talent then ours (IMO) and almost put them in to the playoffs.
Big Ben was what, 15-1 as a rookie starter?
I guess what I'm getting at is every situation is different. Just because other guys havn't succeeded in their rookie years, doesn't mean Quinn cannot.
I would argue that none of the players anyone will use an example will step in to a situation as positive as Quinn's. We have a solid, hard nosed center, a pro-bowl calibur left guard, a #3 overall LT, a veteran RB, a top 5 TE, a young WR in his 3rd (and hopefully breakout year) and a big, vet possession receiver. All the pieces are in place to ease a young signal caller in to the lineup. There's even an outside chance we get LeCharles back (which would just be unbelievable) . We're hardly throwing Quinn in to a situation where he is set up to fail, if that is indeed the route we decided to go. JMHO.
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Quote:
And for those who say "We don't have a first rounder next year so if we suck this year, how can we expect to improve?" The answer's quite simple. We will have saved a ton by getting Quinn in the 20's, even if we have to overpay a bit relative to where he was drafted (I fully expect us to, maybe as high as #15 money, which is still a bargain but I won't exactly be thrilled about that). We will have plenty of money to make a huge splash in FA next year, perhaps as big as we did this year, but I won't bet on that. I expect us to be a bit more reserved in FA, going after just one big catch.
1) <sarcasm>Maybe if the Browns trade away ALL of their future first round picks they can save even more money. That would be awesome.</sarcasm>
2) <sarcasm>Great more money for FA! The best teams are built through FA. SWEET.</sarcasm>
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j/c
Let not history repeat. Remember 1999. Game 1: Home opener vs. Pittsburgh. Result 41-0 and subsequent start of the Tim Couch era = DISASTER!! Granted, the 2007 Browns are not the 1999 Browns and Brady Quinn is not Tim Couch. BUT, we would do well to remember our history so that we are not destined to repeat it.
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Quote:
j/c
Let not history repeat. Remember 1999. Game 1: Home opener vs. Pittsburgh. Result 41-0 and subsequent start of the Tim Couch era = DISASTER!! Granted, the 2007 Browns are not the 1999 Browns and Brady Quinn is not Tim Couch. BUT, we would do well to remember our history so that we are not destined to repeat it.
That's why we are building a solid O-line, so w don't ruin another young QB by getting him sacked 50 times a season, and knocked to the ground on almost every pass play . . .
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Quote:
j/c
Let not history repeat. Remember 1999. Game 1: Home opener vs. Pittsburgh. Result 41-0 and subsequent start of the Tim Couch era = DISASTER!! Granted, the 2007 Browns are not the 1999 Browns and Brady Quinn is not Tim Couch. BUT, we would do well to remember our history so that we are not destined to repeat it.
I am confused by this statement. Tim couch did not play in that game. Ty Detmer was the starter and was replaced by Couch for game 2.
So are you saying that the browns should not play Charlie Frye against the steelers?
Or
Are you saying that the browns should not start BQ against the steelers? If the latter then I do not see how your above statement has any relevance.
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Quote:
Let not history repeat. Remember 1999. Game 1: Home opener vs. Pittsburgh. Result 41-0 and subsequent start of the Tim Couch era = DISASTER!! Granted, the 2007 Browns are not the 1999 Browns and Brady Quinn is not Tim Couch. BUT, we would do well to remember our history so that we are not destined to repeat it.
This is totally diffrent, for one we have a O-line, If Quinn earns it than play him, I dont buy into the QB need to sit and watch for one or two year, If the QB isnt mentally strong enough or physically than why draft him in the first round, your better off grabbing a lower round cheeper guy to sit and watch. He's a Qb he knows thats expected of him before hand and if he cant handle that, than he shouldnt be playing.
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just clickin, I firmly believe that Quinn should sit his first season. Our history of throwing QB's into the fire should be proof enough for anybody. I agree with Toad, Frye can still keep his job IF he really shows BIG improvement behind what should be an improved OL, with a decent running game. However, I'm thinking Frye will show marginal improvement and then there will be a competition in 08 and Quinn will win the starting spot. Then it's up to Frye to decide if he wants to stay as the backup or go elsewhere. JMHO My biggest fear is the way Quinn handled the pressure of the BIG bowl games, he didn't, and that worries me.
Last edited by Rabidfan; 04/30/07 03:01 PM.
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When Crennel believes hes more ready or better than Charlie Frye, plain and simple...
I hope thats game 1 2007.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How soon till Quinn is officially
the starter?
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