DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns are set up to fail.

Well this is Cleveland - not everyone in football wants to play here nor work for the Browns (let alone live here). The cold hard facts are the Browns are a losing franchise with a nonetheless great fanbase.

I think for the most part we take who we can get, but we get the best of who we can get to come here. Fair enough?

How did Jim O'Neil do his first year last season? Even the good coaches have to start somewhere. No seasoned coach with a winning history will take on a five year rebuilding project. It is to risky. Look what happen to Mike Shanahan.

I wasn't all that impressed w/O'Neil. Were you?

We got almost zero pressure on the QBs in the second half of the season. You don't have to always get the sack, but you gotta at least make the qb uncomfortable.

I agree Vers, ONeil didn't fix the run D and got zero pressure on the QB! I would hardly call him an up and coming star!

We also had injuries galore ..... yet look at the passing results. We were at the top of the league in a lot of passing stats, and were much improved in scoring defense.

We had issues with setting the edge in the run game. That was disappointing, especially given how well we did in that regard the year before. However, we moved Kruger into a pass rushing role from the role of setting the edge on his side of the field, and while that improved the pass rush from that position, it hurt the run defense. Sheard was hurt a fair amount, and never really managed to find a place in this defense. Mingo was used primarily as a pass defender, and is probably undersized as far as being an edge guy.

I think that the run defense will be improved this coming year, (and the pass rush as well) as the team now knows what they need as far as personnel, and can add appropriate pieces.

We had so many injuries there is no way you could expect much. Even Mingo was playing with a bum shoulder almost all season.

Holding the opposition to 20 points and improvement in the red zone caught my attention. When was the last time you saw several stops at the goal line on four downs? True, I like to have seen better run defense. I'll bet most of the rushing yards against came between the 20s. One last point the defense didn't go south after the DL was riddled with injuries.

As for pressuring the QB, O'Neil lost a lot of fire power on that DL. He was playing third string and guys off the street. It is the same story we stated for years depth...depth...depth...it's killing any late season push.

Vers, you maybe still bitter looking to deep for faults. Remember too Browns offense was three and out a lot, and still the defense averaged giving up 20 points. I'm simply saying that defense played with pride the whole season. Far cry better than they played with Horton. The defense didn't lose many games...Indy hurt.

I expect Mangini to be successful in SF. First, as much as he sucked as a HC and wanna be GM, he proved to be a successful DC when in NE. Second, the defensive talent that already exists on that team is very, very good.

+1 AMEN BROTHER !!!!!

Amen, brother? Really?

So, are you guys telling me that our pass rush was effective in the second half of the year?

Are you guys denying that almost any NFL qb can be effective if he is given a clean pocket?

Are you guys really negating the importance of a pass rush? I am not just talking about sacks, I am talking about the fact that you have to generate some pressure.

Amen, my butt.

It is strange because we were 19th in QB hits, but our pass defense was among the best in the league. Hopefully next year we can generate more of a pass rush, if we can our defense will be truly elite.

Good point. Our pass defense held up extremely well considering the lack of pressure.

I will say that we generated more pressure [by my eye--not stats] in the first half of the season than we did in the second half. We also lost a key player in Gipson in the secondary in the second half of the season.

Some will say we lost a lot of d-lineman in defense of our lack of pass rush, but none of those guys were pass rushers other than A. Bryant.....and we lost him very early.

Overall, I like our defense. It has potential.

I think we need to concentrate on two areas:

1. Generate a pass rush that even if it doesn't get a huge number of sacks, it at least doesn't allow the qb to throw the ball in rhythm.

2. Do a better job of scheming to play outside/in and not allow teams to get the outside edge of our defense.

We should be a lot better next year in both areas if Mingo's shoulder heals. Also, setting the edge was Sheard's weakness even in the 4-3.

Something I thought about:

With little to no pressure on opposing QB, our D ranked 12th in the league v. the pass. That tells me that we played some pretty solid secondary for the entire season.

Just imagine how much better this D will look with just a 50% increase in QB pressures... this D could be top-5 scary next season. Another TC in the same system with the same coaches? We could see some entertaining football next season.

AND... a D like that could keep us in games (even with the "tougher schedule) just like they did last year.

Of course I have concerns about our O... but who among us would have predicted a 7-4 record at the 2/3 point last season?

I don't know anything about DeFilippo other than what I've read here, so I can't predict how different our O will look come Sept- but I'm hoping they'll play at least as well as they did last Sept. If they can manage even that level of play, I think we have a chance to be competitive from the start.

For now, I'm choosing to land on the side of cautious optimism, rather than default to our usual conditioned "gloom & doom" outlook.

A top 5 D can mitigate enough weaknesses to keep us in the hunt until the O finds its legs.




.02

You take everything so personally. Sheesh.

I am NOT saying we have a terrible defense.

I AM saying that we need to defend the run better, especially in regards to setting the edge AND we need to apply more pressure on the QB. You simply can not give a qb a clean pocket on most plays.

Dang man.........it doesn't mean I hate the defense. They are better than the offense. But, we need to improve in those two areas. Not everything needs to be so black and white.

Man I can only recall one year(2007) when our offense was better than our defense.

They were better back in the days of Sam, Sipe, and Ozzie. It wasn't that long ago........around 1980 or so. LOL

It's time for Browns GM Ray Farmer to face the music and answer some tough questions

Angry words: Browns GM Ray Farmer is very good at issuing tough statements. He was at his best on Tuesday evening when the NFL lowered the boom on Josh Gordon and banished the receiver for a minimum of one year.

The Browns’ Big Man responded with typically stern comments.

"As we have conveyed, we are disappointed to once again be at this point with Josh,” Farmer said in the statement. “Throughout his career we have tried to assist him in getting support like we would with any member of our organization. Unfortunately our efforts have not resonated with him.

“It is evident that Josh needs to make some substantial strides to live up to the positive culture we are trying to build this football team upon. Our hope is that this suspension affords Josh the opportunity to gain some clarity in determining what he wants to accomplish moving forward and if he wants a career in the National Football League.

“We will have no further comment on Josh as he will not be permitted in our facility for the duration of his suspension.”

Growing pains: Tough talk has become one of the tenets of the Browns in Farmer’s one year as general manager. Tough action is another story.

To be honest, the team for which Farmer is responsible is a raging dumpster fire right now.

Gordon, its best player when Farmer took over, is suspended indefinitely.

Johnny Manziel, the would-be franchise quarterback in which Farmer invested two high draft choices, checked himself into “treatment,” presumably for alcohol dependency.

Brian Hoyer, the only quarterback with a winning record in 16 seasons of the Browns’ expansion era, is on the verge of free agency after getting frozen out by Farmer and others.

Jordan Cameron, the franchise’s only Pro Bowl tight end since Ozzie Newsome was in his prime, is on the verge of free agency after the team offered him a one-year contract before the 2014 season.

Justin Gilbert, Farmer’s first-ever No. 1 draft choice, finished his horrendous rookie season sequestered in the visitor’s locker room in Baltimore, disciplined for missing an umpteenth team meeting. In the team road hotel!

Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan forfeited two years of guaranteed salary to jump off what he considered a sinking ship. On the way out, he laid out a list of 32 complaints to owner Jimmy Haslam, several of which reflected poorly on the rookie GM.

On the clock: Like most NFL GMs, Farmer is unavailable during the season as he shuffles into the shadows and allows the head coach to stand alone as the day-to-day team spokesman. The problem with that is that the head coach often is forced to respond to questions raised by decisions made unilaterally by Farmer, who holds the authority on Browns football decisions.

Over the course of the past season, I sought to arrange interview time with Farmer. The response was always the same: The head coach is the spokesman during the season.

But Mike Pettine wouldn’t be the person to respond to the questions I’ve compiled over the course of the past season. They need to be answered by Farmer. Such as:

Did you really text-message coaches in the coaches box during games to complain about play-calls and usage of players, as sources have said?

Did you also text-message a team employee on the sideline to deliver your messages to coaches during games, which is a violation of league rules?

What role did you play in the decision to start Manziel in Game 14 against Cincinnati with a chance at the playoffs still alive?

Speaking of Manziel, did you Google his name before the draft and read the plethora of stories detailing problems he had with drinking going back to his high school days?

Was it really worth not attending pro days of the top-rated players in the 2014 draft? Couldn’t you have gleaned one bit of useful information on Gilbert and Manziel by talking to some college coach attending their pro days? Was it so important to be absent solely to disguise your intentions in the draft?

Like most GMs, you said you would be “true to our draft board” when selecting players in the draft. Was Gilbert and Manziel really the highest-rated players on your board when your turn came up at No. 8 and No. 22 in the first round?

The former Browns football regime commissioned a $100,000 study that concluded Teddy Bridgewater was the best quarterback of the 2014 draft. Why did you disregard it?

Explain again how you could ignore the receiver position in the most receiver-rich draft in history after knowing Gordon would be suspended for most, if not all, of the 2014 season?

Given the questionable situation at receiver, why did you cut receiver Charles Johnson after the club invested nine months in rehabilitating him from ACL knee surgery?

Why did you ignore the blatant problem at punt returner all season?

How did you arrive at Nick McDonald as a suitable replacement for injured center Alex Mack?

Ryan Seymour?

Why exactly do you not think the team is best served by re-signing Hoyer?

When it comes to “play like a Brown” core values, what was it about Ben Tate that qualified him to receive a contract in free agency?

Do you feel a GM should accede to the whims of the owner or is it the GM’s responsibility to stay true to his convictions even if they contradict the owner’s opinion?

Could we possibly have answers to these questions? An official tough statement on each would do.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=41941

Did Spiritbro write that?

I've lost all respect for Grossi. What little I had left just completely vanished. The guy has no convictions at all. He simply goes where the wind blows. He loves to pile on with the latest fan sentiment. He is a fan masquerading as a beat reporter for the team he grew up rooting for. And we all know what fan is short for.

He, like many fans, won't be happy until they run this current group of leaders out the door. Then he will complain about the guys they hire next. And when those new guys don't produce instant results, he will Monday morning QB them to death like he is doing here. He must love to read all the posts after his articles telling him how great he is. Whatever it takes to get that reaction is what he'll do. He loves the attention.

I listen to him every morning on The RBS. It appears he has no real inside knowledge. Every answer is speculation. Rizzo has more inside knowledge than Grossi. He's a hack.

Wait, does that mean at some point, you HAD respect for Grossi?

I would like to know the answer to some of the questions Grossi poses above too.

lol...

I'm feeling childish today.

Thanks for the read pblack.

Those are certainly questions I would like to see answered by Farmer.

I love how people pile on when they read something they don't like. It makes it much easier for them to turn a blind eye to things when people ask the tough questions.

looks like he got the jump on everyone about farmer?

Okay. That makes sense. I think I was wrong about this conversation. I don't always pay attention to who I respond to or who that person responded to.

My mistake. I am sorry.

A five-step plan to get the Browns back on their feet

Deep breaths: Have the Browns hit rock bottom yet? Probably not. That should – should -- come when the NFL hands down discipline for violating electronic communication rules – a.k.a. Text-gate.

The rules are set forth in the NFL Constitution and Bylaws and in the NFL Game Operations Manual. They exist “to ensure competitive equity between the clubs.”

The Browns didn’t gain a competitive advantage by having front office types badger coaches via text messages to subordinates on the sidelines. Rather, they put their team at a competitive disadvantage. It wasa case of meddlesome execs submarining the team by distracting coaches with inappropriatemessages.

Still, I expect the NFL to come down hard on the Browns. Why? Out of frustration for not being able to nail the Patriots on Deflate-gate. And because it would be so Cleveland to blow a draft pick out of stupidity. Not like that hasn’t happened before.

The penalties could be a combination of fines, suspensions or draft choices taken away. How severe may depend on the frequency of the violations (over multiple games) and who was involved. The most severe penalty, in my opinion, would result if the owner were implicated.

Sanctions would complete an Offseason From Hell that included: offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan begging for his release, Johnny Manziel entering alcohol rehab, Josh Gordon being suspended for a minimum of one year and disclosing his positive test was the result of drinking with teammates and one former assistant coach.

So how do the Browns climb themselves out of this Grand Canyon-esque crater? I have a five-step plan:

1. Re-sign Brian Hoyer.

Do it quickly. The press conference alone would be worth the nominal investment for a three-year contract. Hoyer could make fans feel a little bit better about their team by genuinely expressing his love for the city and team. At this point, who else would choose to sign here?

Beyond the PR value, however, re-signing Hoyer would restore faith in the locker room and credibility in coach Mike Pettine, who hasn’t won many arguments with his bosses since the Justin Gilbert whiff.

Granted, Hoyer is not the final answer at the quarterback position, but he is the best option to hold the fort – and win – until the Next Great Hope is found. Plus, he is the ideal quarterback to transition to role of mentor and backup when the NGH is drafted.

Further, Hoyer should be better in 2015 because his right knee will be naturally stronger the second year after ACL surgery, and the suffocating shadow of Johnny Manziel will be removed (see below).

What needs to happen, however, is for Hoyer to be shown the unwavering support of ownership and the front office – something palpably missing last season.

2. Sign the best available wide receiver in free agency.

If Dez Bryant is re-signed by the Cowboys, I’m not sure there is a true No. 1 receiver with size and speed available. Unless others become available, the best are Randall Cobb, Jeremy Maclin, Michael Crabtree and Torrey Smith.

Since none of the four best receivers in free agency – minus Bryant -- is truly a No. 1, this would be only the first step in the essential upgrading of the position. The quarterback and running game would benefit by this two-step approach.

3. Draft the best available wide receiver at No. 12.

This is the second step in correcting GM Ray Farmer’s cataract-affected view of offense. Whether the selection is Alabama’s Amari Cooper, Louisville’s DeVante Parker or West Virginia’s Kevin White, the point is adding a top-flight receiver now so that he is developed by the time the Next Great Hope is on the field.

4. Draft the best available defensive lineman at No. 19.

Joe Haden told me at the Super Bowl the defense needs a feared defensive end to rush the passer and alter offensive game-plans. If the higher-ranked player on the board is run-stuffing defensive tackle, that would work, too.

5. Trade Johnny Manziel to the Dallas Cowboys.

This is a pure bail-out from a huge mistake. The Browns need to cut their losses and move on from Manziel.

Because Manziel currently is in alcohol rehab, this may be construed as tossing aside a young player with dependency issues. Actually, sending Manziel to his home state of Texas, where he would be closer to family who could watch over him and where he is still revered as a college hero, might be doing him a favor.

Beyond Manziel’s non-existent work ethic and his loss of respect in the locker room, the fact remains that Manziel’s schoolyard style of quarterbacking and his beyond-slight build simply don’t fit this geography and smash-mouth division. Neither does he fit Pettine’s philosophy of offense, and Pettine intends to “immerse” himself in the offense in his second season as coach.

The Browns would be lucky to receive a late-round pick from Jerry Jones for Manziel. Since they gave up first- and third-round picks to select him, virtually giving away Manziel would be a sobering admission that they were mistaken in thinking he could be The Man. It happens.

Manziel’s apparent sole purpose in 2014 was to stir ticket and jersey sales and make the Browns relevant again. In that regard, it was mission accomplished. Until he stepped on the field and actually played.

Trading him also would be affirmation that player acquisitions were restored to the office of football operations, where they belong.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=41921

I at least thought it would be a 12 step program.

Browns 'muddy' quarterback situation extends to the coaching
Feb 09, 2015 -- 6:00am

Get it right: The most under-coached position in the NFL is quarterback.

Gary Danielson said that to me 29 years ago. It’s still true today.

Quarterbacks need so much coaching for a variety of reasons. Start with the fact they play the most demanding position in sports – mentally, physically and emotionally. They need to be the most mentally tough player on the team.

Especially now, young quarterbacks usually come from simplified college offenses that don’t prepare them well for the complexities of the NFL game. Often, they need to be deprogrammed before they can be schooled up.

Then there’s the fact that when the season starts, the backup quarterback spends the majority of his time simulating the opposing quarterback on the scout team. This is when quarterbacks can lose their fundamentals. Then all of a sudden, they’re thrown into the fire.

The job of coaching quarterbacks is so vast, it takes two people to get it right.

“I always liked the double-barrelled thing,” said Ernie Accorsi, former NFL general manager with the Baltimore Colts, Browns and Giants.

Accorsi believed in supporting a young quarterback with an experienced coach and also an experienced quarterback. The coach handled the fundamentals, the veteran tutored the young QB on the mental approach to the NFL game.

Which brings us to the Browns.

Which brings us to Kevin O’Connell.

Out of the box: O’Connell will be announced as the Browns’ quarterbacks coach sometime this week. He is 29 and has never coached in the NFL. Nor in college. Nor in high school.

O’Connell was a third-round draft pick of Patriots coach Bill Belichick in 2008. One year later, he was beaten out as Tom Brady’s backup by Brian Hoyer, who was undrafted in 2009. O’Connell was waived

He was claimed in 2009 by the Lions and then traded to the Jets for a seventh-round draft choice. He spent that season with the Jets. Coach Rex Ryan made him a captain for one game against Belichick’s Patriots. Browns coach Mike Pettine was Ryan’s defensive coordinator and Browns offensive coordinator John DeFilippo was the quarterbacks coach.

O’Connell was released the following training camp, and then bounced around with the Dolphins and Chargers before turning to broadcasting and then working with George Whitfield, a certifiable quarterback “guru,” to prepare college quarterbacks for the NFL combine.

One of O’Connell’s pupils was Johnny Manziel ... and, voila, he’s the Browns’ new quarterbacks coach.

Bruce Feldman, a FoxSports columnist, worked closely for two years with Whitfield and O’Connell and others to research his book, “The QB: Making of Modern Quarterbacks.” In a recent appearance on Cleveland Browns Daily, Feldman said this about O’Connell:

“Kevin O’Connell might have been the most impressive guy I dealt with in the whole process for over those two years. He’s way mature beyond his years. He’s on top of everything. He’s very well-wired into the NFL. I know he had the chance to be a college quarterback coach at a pretty good level and turned it down. I figured Kevin was either going to be a star as a football analyst on TV or he was going to go into coaching and be a star there.”

On Saturday, Hoyer disclosed that O’Connell spent three or four days in Pettine’s first training camp as an observer at practice and in quarterback meetings.

What does it mean?: So now the Browns have an offensive coordinator (DeFilippo) who has never been a coordinator in the NFL or called plays before, and a quarterbacks coach (O’Connell) who has never been a coach at any level of football.

I’ve seen a lot in 30 years of covering the Browns. But I don’t think I’ve seen a greener combination of coaches dedicated to the toughest position in sports.

I’m sure this speaks to the difficulty Pettine had in filling these coaching positions after Kyle Shanahan went nuclear in disclosing the dysfunction in the Browns’ 2014 season.

It makes you wonder. If owner Jimmy Haslam and GM Ray Farmer could pressure an experienced, hard-headed coach like Shanahan, what chance do DeFilippo and O’Connell have in doing their jobs without interference?

We don’t even know who the Browns’ quarterbacks will be in 2015. But now we know who will be coaching them.

Does anybody feel good about this?

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=42401

Makes sense.




Wait.........what?




No chance?




Of course Brown's fans do. The owner and FO are wonderful. The Browns only had two problems last year. One was Shanny being a rat and the other was LaCanafora making stuff up.

It's all good.

Grossi is one of the best reporters in our area.

Maybe he bashes the Browns because the organization is terrible. If they were in the business of anything besides NFL Football they would have collapses 5 times over.

Did anyone else find it odd that Grossi's intent was to paint as bleak a picture as possible yet he inserted a very complimentary quote about O'Connell? It really stuck out like a sore thumb, and I just found it odd.

I urge you guys to tune in to the RBS every morning around 10am EST if you can. Grossi is loving every minute of this. He writes really negative articles then he gets to go on the show and talk about them. This guy loves the attention, and the more attention he gets, the more the negative articles keep flowing.

Mind you it is also very obvious from his morning routine that he has little to no inside knowledge of the team.

Grossi also holds a grudge like no other. That was useful in the case of keeping Modell out of the hall of Fame, but it gets somewhat tiresome in other instances.