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I've given a lot of thought to this concept over the years, being the fan of an incompetent laughingstock who best inspires hope through the draft.
And BPA - or best player available - is a very counter intuitive strategy.
You win by building a system, and then filling in those slots accordingly.
There is a reason that Bill Belichick's drafts are entirely underwhelming, but he wins like a boss.
"Value" is nonsense.
You can draft a fullback at #5 if he's the final or most important piece to the puzzle.
The prospect or potential in an individual athlete is no match for the competency of a crucial cog.
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You can draft a fullback at #5 if he's the final or most important piece to the puzzle.
Phil is Mo Carthon!
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You can draft a fullback at #5 if he's the final or most important piece to the puzzle.
Phil is Mo Carthon! Oh, the Vickers sweeps. I remember when we fired him. My sig was "The Toronto Argowho? Who's their fullback?"
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My sig was "The Toronto Argowho? Why the Argonaut reference?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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BPA is a lie. A team who truly drafted BPA would probably end up taking 5 running backs in this draft.
I think you need to look at who you like in the draft for your team, in what order, and how you can maximize that outcome, similar to what you said PDR.
BPA lends itself to trying to have the best pick when what you need to do is have the best draft. And to do that, you need to maximize the improvement of your team. JMO.
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I'm not a fan of BPA, a team should draft what it needs.
"I live in Antarctica and own a Ferrari. A car dealership has a Lamborghini and 4WD pickup truck available to buy. I really need that 4WD, but the Lamborghini is a better car. I think I'll grab that Lamborghini." It makes no sense. Take what is needed.
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I've given a lot of thought to this concept over the years, being the fan of an incompetent laughingstock who best inspires hope through the draft.
And BPA - or best player available - is a very counter intuitive strategy.
You win by building a system, and then filling in those slots accordingly.
There is a reason that Bill Belichick's drafts are entirely underwhelming, but he wins like a boss.
"Value" is nonsense.
You can draft a fullback at #5 if he's the final or most important piece to the puzzle.
The prospect or potential in an individual athlete is no match for the competency of a crucial cog. I've always said I believe each team's "BPA" model develops organically alongside teams needs. Overtime you gravitate towards those players at the positions you recognize need upgrading and your draft board evolves accordingly. Now, you might have a little wiggle room, let's say, if you pick towards the end of the first round and there is one player who is clearly above and beyond other players available. But for the most part, I agree. BPA is a buzz word GMs use to placate fans, not tip their hand to other teams, and to regurgitate at the media over and over again at press conferences/interviews during silly season (NOW) .
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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1. Picking in the top 10 usually well too often the players in the top 10 are slotted for the teams as the graded prospects have distinct BPA in the draft order.
If you notice the Draftnicks are pretty spot on in the top 10 then it slowly starts to go all over the place.
Usually the Raiders have been traditional in picking out of the norm in the top 10. Now those are drafts with talents.
2. Drafts with not a good class of talent can have guys going top 3 or 15. Cause there is not a distinct order of things.
3. QB has also been the automatic over ride in the term BPA. As rarely will a QB actually be the graded BPA.
4. Finally you have to remember us jerking around with draft games (of course for Browns fans the real season) much goes from the Draft Sites reports and analysis of players. However it doesn't necessarily equate to 32 teams individual scouting reports. Actually leaked out info on those Big Boards is how there are some unusual movement in the MOCKS. Kiper for instance - we have the games on film we will have the Bowl games and the all star games, we will have the combine. Then about 2 weeks before the draft he puts out an entirely different MOCK then he would in March. That is because lets say a team who has no recourse to look at early QBs will get pried out of some evaluations. But my point is our Big Board is influenced greatly by the Draft Web Sites we all frequent.
5. Even those who do their studying in depth on their own, like CleveSteve and DJ they still don't have the resources that the Scouts do. Nor the interviews of the process or the private workouts.
6. Farmer is of the same philosophy of the OZ...that is to stick to the board. Which comes to the questions of JM, was he on the board? Was that truly a Haslam pick? I find it hard to believe that Farmer who was commissioned by Banner/Lombardi to make in depth study and reports on the college QBs for the 2014 draft. Would even agree with a Haslam pick if he thought other wise.
But usually most teams will make several types of boards. The one that is the most secrect is a Board of around 20 players. Ranking lets say 4 players in round 1-5 each that they expect to see there.
That is where the true draft usually is in. They might have one of their 4 guys from the 2nd round still there when we pick in the third or possibly that is where you see us making a trade of a 6th rounder to move up 5 spots in the 3rd to take a kid.
We have to be very careful on the moniker BPA. Is what we conceive as BPA our teams War room BPA or is it Mel Kiper's BPA.
jmho
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Go Browns!
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or is it Mel Kiper's BPA.
^ I don't think anyone is referring to this.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I've given a lot of thought to this concept over the years, being the fan of an incompetent laughingstock who best inspires hope through the draft.
And BPA - or best player available - is a very counter intuitive strategy.
You win by building a system, and then filling in those slots accordingly.
There is a reason that Bill Belichick's drafts are entirely underwhelming, but he wins like a boss.
"Value" is nonsense.
You can draft a fullback at #5 if he's the final or most important piece to the puzzle.
The prospect or potential in an individual athlete is no match for the competency of a crucial cog. I've always said I believe each team's "BPA" model develops organically alongside teams needs. Overtime you gravitate towards those players at the positions you recognize need upgrading and your draft board evolves accordingly. Now, you might have a little wiggle room, let's say, if you pick towards the end of the first round and there is one player who is clearly above and beyond other players available. But for the most part, I agree. BPA is a buzz word GMs use to placate fans, not tip their hand to other teams, and to regurgitate at the media over and over again at press conferences/interviews during silly season (NOW) . Agreed, Memphis. I believe BPA comes more into play with the best teams drafting later in a round. Their needs/holes are fewer thus allowing them to pick BPA...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Even those who do their studying in depth on their own, like CleveSteve and DJ they still don't have the resources that the Scouts do. Nor the interviews of the process or the private workouts. Don't forget the medical reports.
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Talent wise Winston #1 pick. other stuff would not be on my draft board.
AS for BPA for this class, I will throw in my personal rankings for this year and this is more Browns related to fit what we run
1. Amari Cooper WR Bama
2. Leonard Williams DT So Cal
3. Devante Parker WR Louisville
4. Kevin White WR WV
5. Maxx Williams TE Minn (know i am gonna get ripped for this one but I think he is the most underrated player in the draft) I see the potential to be a major star. Great hands, blocks hard, uses his wide frame to defend the ball and he runs routes like a 215 lb receiver. He is my dream pick at 19.
6. La'el Collins OT/OG LSU I think his future is RG but probowl guard for the next 10 years. I dont think he is a tackle at the next level but this kid has nasty written all over him.
7. Danny Shelton DT washington
8. Landon Collins S Bama
9. Brandon Scherff OT Iowa
10. T.J. Clemmings OT Pitt I really want to put him higher.
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If you can get your hands on some Miami games, watch Flowers and compare him to Clemmings. There's no contest IMO. Flowers is much better. He looked average against Nebraska but was a total stud against Duke and Virginia Tech.
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BPA has always been a concept that baffles me.
For instance, if your QB is Andrew Luck, and the BPA just happens to be a QB, do you draft him? I'd say yes if your QB is Payton Manning or Tom Brady because they are closer to the end of their careers than Luck is.
Or do you take the BPA that best fits your overall plan?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Or do you take the BPA that best fits your overall plan? ...or trade out of the spot and obtain picks for later, or next year.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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If you can get your hands on some Miami games, watch Flowers and compare him to Clemmings. There's no contest IMO. Flowers is much better. He looked average against Nebraska but was a total stud against Duke and Virginia Tech. I have flowers right behind him but I like Clemmings slightly better. I wouldnt have had either in my top 30 last year and that says a lot about my opinion on this draft class. These are good players but I dont see a lot of eye popping greatness otu there. Its kinda why Maxx jumps so high for me. He pops.
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In my opinion there's never been any such concept of dogmaticaly taking strict BPA. BPA always has to be within the context of team needs. Anything else and you need to find a new GM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Or do you take the BPA that best fits your overall plan? Yep. However, there is a saying, and it makes absolute sense, and that is that "Great players find their way to the field". If I have a really good OLB, for example, and I have a chance to draft another great one, even if I have a pressing need at S, do I take the great player, or do I take the "good" player, that fits my needs? Would I rather have 1 great and 1 good OLB, along with a good Safety ..... or 2 great OLB? Maybe I still have a hole at S, but with the much improved pass rush from my 2 great OLB, it is not as noticeable. If we had a chance to draft the next Joe Thomas, would we do that, or take a WR who could be pretty good? QBs take precedence early on. The saying goes that if you don't have a QB, you need one. Any team without a QB, who thinks that can get one, will take chances to do so. That is natural. I think that teams make mistakes when they pass up great players for good players who fit. Now this is not to say that all players fit their particular scheme. In that case, then I think it's OK to pass up a player. However, if you pass up a great player in favor of a "really good" player at a position you already have quality at, does that really help the team? I think that you have to have pieces that fit. However, how many really great players does a team have? Maybe a half dozen? If there is a great player available when you draft, even if you don't see a need, take him and you'll find a way to use him to your advantage.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Max Williams is a beast. I'm a huge fan of his Mourg.
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Let me make a few points if you will in addition to what you have stated.
In order to draft well consistently you have to have organizational continuity.
The Patriots and Ravens are a good example.
Over the years they have developed a playing personality.
The use free agency, trades, and the waiver wires to select players to fill specific jobs. And they draft guys who "fit" their culture.
Belichick can heard often "just do your job".
Mike Vrabel is a good example. They got him from the Steelers and utilized his smarts, leadership and in his case his versatility.
The Pats always draft low in the round and often trade out of the first round to acquire more picks. They fill the roster with mid round players to "fit". Example Tedy Bruschi 3rd round key player in their scheme.
Ozzie Newsome has been a master of drafting guys like Haloti Ngata, and CJ Mosely. Hard nosed guys who play smart and work hard. Then using FA to get key guys like Anquan Boldin. Tough proven player who was key in their Super Bowl season.
When I hear Ray Farmer talk about building a culture and then he is exposed for what he is. I gag. Then others on this Board say it is no big deal if we have to give up a late round pick. Like that is all there is too this?
Then I listen to Haslam talk about the importance of continuity and putting men into defined roles and left alone to do their job. *And then have to report directly to me, Mr. Haslam the owner. A guy with his resume?
Just the thought of Mike Pettine having to watch film with Alec Scheiner, and Jimmy Haslam spells in bold letters where the Browns now are.
You can draft BPA or need. You would like them to intersect like last year when Sammy Watkins was right there. BPA fitting the highest need on the team.
We trade out for Gilbert who was considered soft as a tackler and by no means the consensus top corner. Then give up a third rounder to move up in the "first" round to take Manziel.
But it is all good. First year HC, first year GM, new owner from outside of football. Now we hire a first time OC and first time quarterback coach with Conner Shaw QB the last guy standing.
The draft is the lifeblood for every NFL team. "If" your draft fits into an organization with all it's oars in the water pulling in the same direction.
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Ozzie traded us a late round pick (a 6th, IIRC) to trade up with us to draft Ngata. Just saying ..... if the right player is there, and you think he won't be there when you draft, go ahead and get him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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In order to draft well consistently you have to have organizational continuity.
The Patriots and Ravens are a good example.
Over the years they have developed a playing personality.
The use free agency, trades, and the waiver wires to select players to fill specific jobs. And they draft guys who "fit" their culture.
Belichick can heard often "just do your job".
Very well said. It's next to impossible to draft well if you don't know why you're making the selections you are. And the oar/rowing analogy was spot on. When in the last 15 years have we had a team working in unison? It's always infighting and power grabs; constant turnover that makes each previous acquisition null and void.
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Or do you take the BPA that best fits your overall plan? Yep. However, there is a saying, and it makes absolute sense, and that is that "Great players find their way to the field". If I have a really good OLB, for example, and I have a chance to draft another great one, even if I have a pressing need at S, do I take the great player, or do I take the "good" player, that fits my needs? Would I rather have 1 great and 1 good OLB, along with a good Safety ..... or 2 great OLB? Maybe I still have a hole at S, but with the much improved pass rush from my 2 great OLB, it is not as noticeable. If we had a chance to draft the next Joe Thomas, would we do that, or take a WR who could be pretty good? QBs take precedence early on. The saying goes that if you don't have a QB, you need one. Any team without a QB, who thinks that can get one, will take chances to do so. That is natural. I think that teams make mistakes when they pass up great players for good players who fit. Now this is not to say that all players fit their particular scheme. In that case, then I think it's OK to pass up a player. However, if you pass up a great player in favor of a "really good" player at a position you already have quality at, does that really help the team? I think that you have to have pieces that fit. However, how many really great players does a team have? Maybe a half dozen? If there is a great player available when you draft, even if you don't see a need, take him and you'll find a way to use him to your advantage. Ok, I buy into all of that, but it now raises another question about various posters here and several other boards I read. How many times have you heard, we couldn't have had player X. He was there when we took Player Y? What if player X doesn't fit our needs? Not close?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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or is it Mel Kiper's BPA.
^ I don't think anyone is referring to this.
He is the most noted Draftnick. Mel or anyone else - they influence all with their board and months of reports - btw there can't be more than 2 or 3 reports out there. I see every site pasting it as their own reports some take a little off some add on.
What I'm getting at is whose BPA as after the 10th pick then it starts going all over the place. What are we to judge on. What board?
What Board? Did I miss something are we to make our board discuss our Scouts and Farmer regarding their possible BPA?
Not putting anything down actually I like the topic just laying out my opinion on BPA as its a very generic term sometimes.
Last edited by eotab; 02/06/15 07:37 PM.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Or do you take the BPA that best fits your overall plan? ...or trade out of the spot and obtain picks for later, or next year. I'm almost always a proponent of this.
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Or do you take the BPA that best fits your overall plan? ...or trade out of the spot and obtain picks for later, or next year. I'm almost always a proponent of this. Same. If there is not a player you are comfortable taking at that spot you trade down.
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I've explained this before. It takes some time to do so and I ain't going to do it in-depth again, since y'all forget it every year. LOL
But basically, teams have a vertical board and a horizontal board. The vertical is rating the players from first on down. The horizontal board is by position...as in top qb, second qb, third qb, etc.
BPA and need are both considered. Teams will make moves if they see a guy that is high on their vertical board and they didn't expect he would be there. That is why you see teams trade up a lot. When it comes time for their pick and there is no clear cut vertical guy standing out, teams rely more on their horizontal board, which is looking at the available guys at positions--not position--of need.
It is a bit more complicated than that, but y'all will forget it again, anyway.
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Man, you know so much. Teach me your ways. . .
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Man..........you are so cool.
Some like to learn. Others feel like they have nothing to learn and instead belittle others.
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All Pro
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I've explained this before. It takes some time to do so and I ain't going to do it in-depth again, since y'all forget it every year. LOL
But basically, teams have a vertical board and a horizontal board. The vertical is rating the players from first on down. The horizontal board is by position...as in top qb, second qb, third qb, etc.
BPA and need are both considered. Teams will make moves if they see a guy that is high on their vertical board and they didn't expect he would be there. That is why you see teams trade up a lot. When it comes time for their pick and there is no clear cut vertical guy standing out, teams rely more on their horizontal board, which is looking at the available guys at positions--not position--of need.
It is a bit more complicated than that, but y'all will forget it again, anyway. That is a good explanation of how the rest of the league may set up a draft board, but surely not how the Browns run a draft.
GO BROWNS!
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I enjoy reading the posts here and I have learned alot by reading them. Everyone is entitled to their opinion including me. It doesn't mean we are right or wrong. Their are alot of good ideas posted here and I hope everyone keeps it up.
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Not eveyone's opinion is right.
For example, "My opinion is that Brian Hoyer is the best QB in the NFL."
(This is not aimed at anyone directly.)
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I've explained this before. It takes some time to do so and I ain't going to do it in-depth again, since y'all forget it every year. LOL
But basically, teams have a vertical board and a horizontal board. The vertical is rating the players from first on down. The horizontal board is by position...as in top qb, second qb, third qb, etc.
BPA and need are both considered. Teams will make moves if they see a guy that is high on their vertical board and they didn't expect he would be there. That is why you see teams trade up a lot. When it comes time for their pick and there is no clear cut vertical guy standing out, teams rely more on their horizontal board, which is looking at the available guys at positions--not position--of need.
It is a bit more complicated than that, but y'all will forget it again, anyway. That is a good explanation of how the rest of the league may set up a draft board, but surely not how the Browns run a draft. The Browns most likely tape names to the wall and throw darts while blindfolded.
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Very few teams are in the position to take the BPA without considering need.
The best approach is best player available in a position of need for rounds 1-4, then BPA after that.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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If I taped names to the wall and threw darts I could have done a better job than our FO over the years. 
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I agree with that draft strategy.
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Look, I know that my post came across as arrogant and snarky. I apologize for that.
However, I really do have some knowledge about the draft process. I am not making that up. I've tried to share it. Some have thanked me for the information I could pass along. I don't see why you have to make fun of me for posting what I know???
There are plenty of things that I don't know about. I love reading those intelligent guys in other forums when they talk about music, science, engineering, etc. I learn from them. I don't make fun of them for sharing their knowledge.
Football wise......I have very little knowledge about the salary cap, roster exemptions, compensation, draft charts, legal issues in the NFL, etc. When someone speaks about those things in an intelligent manner.......I listen and keep my mouth shut! If I don't understand.......I ask a question so they can expound on the matter. I do NOT get offended because they are sharing their expertise. Instead, I am thankful that they are.
You hearing me?
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Vers, for what it's worth, I enjoy reading your posts as well as anyone else's where I can learn anything about my Browns and football in general. 
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
As I said in my post, it was not directed at anyone.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
If I taped names to the wall and threw darts I could have done a better job than our FO over the years. I would like to throw out a challenge to anyone with a dartboard (since I don't have one). Pick a reasonable website that you like that does 7 round mock drafts. Take all the players they have in a particular round that are available when we pick. Throw darts blindfolded at them. Do this for 3 consecutive years and compare your drafts to the drafts of the Cleveland Browns. Feeling free to keep us updated on your progress. It might be fun. It might be worth a good laugh. It might be worth a good cry.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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