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How so? What did he do well? He didn't play much at all. He had that one start and gave up 6 first down passes. How is that improvement?
Unless, it is he actually saw the field after not seeing it most of the year. But, didn't that have more to do w/Gilbert's suckiness and Williams' injury more than anything else? Heck, we had a safety playing corner over Gilbert and sometimes Desir.
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One of the things I like to watch for in corner play is the position of the corner even if they give up the catch. Other than Haden getting turned around from time to time, he's usually always on his guys hip. I believe he took his play to another level this year and started turning great position into plays on the ball. He's a prototype technique guy.
In the preseason, both Williams and Desir looked like complete garbage. I was actually surprised that Williams made the team. I thought for sure the team made a mistake. But he really played well with hard work and study time.
When Desir first got on the field, he was completely lost. I mean completely. Like nowhere near his guy lost. I thought in the Carolina game he showed improvement in his positioning. He was on his guy a lot. Even if they caught the ball he was right there. I thought that showed improvement from being completely lost. Not saying put him in the Pro Bowl. Just that there was some improvement there, and that's worth something. It's better than no improvement.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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What people want him fired? Please name them. Thanks.
His draft sucked. Period. Grossi seems to, for starters. As far as "his draft sucked" ..... the 1st round has been extremely disappointing so far. However, we got players that most people wanted, players many people thought would be great. I wasn't 100% sold on Manziel, and in fact, what did I say about the pick? I said that even though it was a massive boom or bust proposition, it was still a chance worth taking. I liked the pick of Gilbert, and had heard nothing of attitude problems in college. Something happened when he got a big paycheck. Unfortunately that happens sometimes. I was happy with the Gilbert pick. I seem to recall that you were as well. That pick has not yet worked out.Maybe a year off, and time seeing that his career could wind up being flushed might be enough to get Gilbert turned back around again. He is a very talented kid, and the only reason he will bust is if he doesn't get his head straightened out. That may happen. That is probably the hardest part of a player going pro to predict. 5 of Farmer's picks either contributed heavily, or showed pretty good promise. Bitonio had an excellent year. He had a good enough year that if he had been drafted at the 22nd pick, few people would complain today about how that pick worked out. Kirksey was a really good pick, even though I hated the pick when it was made. He was an effective ILB for the team, and showed the ability tot work sideline to sideline. He can cover, and he can hold the point of attack. He had 5 tackles for loss, which was 5th on the team. He was a really good pick. West led the team in rushing. He was on his way to a great season until Mack got hurt. I should add that the scheme never seemed to adjust to the loss of Mack. We continued to run the same plays, up the middle, even though we lost out Pro Bowl Center, and even though they did not work. That is my one real complaint about Shanahan. However, 675 yards and 4 TD is not a bad rookie season. We also added a guy i Loved when we picked him up as an UDFA, and he was the guy I said could make a real impact ... that guy being Crowell. We appear to have this position well manned. Think back to what Farmer inherited at the RB position. He inherited ..... well, Obi, and nothing else. West was a very good pick. We also drafted Desir, who came on at the end of the season and showed some real promise. He looks like a kid who, with another off-season, could be a game changer. He certainly showed that he can lay at this level. So, our draft produced 3 season long starters, and a guy who contributed near the end of the season. That's more than you can expect from any draft, especially in year 1. We had problems at the top, and those were player problems, not big mistakes by the GM. (Not IMHO, anyway)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
I have the perfect solution.....no fines for the Cleveland Browns if we show up on Hard Knocks.
Seems fair.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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j/c
I have the perfect solution.....no fines for the Cleveland Browns if we show up on Hard Knocks.
Seems fair. Yeah, this circus we got going on here so far this offseason is likely making the lips salivate above and beyond for the producer(s) of that show I bet.
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j/c
I have the perfect solution.....no fines for the Cleveland Browns if we show up on Hard Knocks.
Seems fair. Yeah, this circus we got going on here so far this offseason is likely making the lips salivate above and beyond for the producer(s) of that show I bet. "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"  Long live, Maximus.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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It does not matter what we think of Farmer.
He was hired by the Big Cheese. Haslam is very image conscious. He is not going to fire Farmer and draw more negative attention to himself.
All us fans can hope for is:
Will the Farmer/Haslam combo learn from the past?
Will they figure out how to run an organization and evaluate talent?
Perhaps the biggest question is will they learn to overcome their substantial ego's?
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My question would more be is Farmer the one responsible for the selection of JFF?
If not, the only really big miss I see in this draft on Farmers part would be Gilbert. Maybe the issue isn't so much Farmer evaluating talent as it is who is dictating some of the picks.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What people want him fired? Please name them. Thanks.
His draft sucked. Period. Grossi seems to, for starters. As far as "his draft sucked" ..... the 1st round has been extremely disappointing so far. However, we got players that most people wanted, players many people thought would be great. I wasn't 100% sold on Manziel, and in fact, what did I say about the pick? I said that even though it was a massive boom or bust proposition, it was still a chance worth taking. I liked the pick of Gilbert, and had heard nothing of attitude problems in college. Something happened when he got a big paycheck. Unfortunately that happens sometimes. I was happy with the Gilbert pick. I seem to recall that you were as well. That pick has not yet worked out.Maybe a year off, and time seeing that his career could wind up being flushed might be enough to get Gilbert turned back around again. He is a very talented kid, and the only reason he will bust is if he doesn't get his head straightened out. That may happen. That is probably the hardest part of a player going pro to predict. 5 of Farmer's picks either contributed heavily, or showed pretty good promise. Bitonio had an excellent year. He had a good enough year that if he had been drafted at the 22nd pick, few people would complain today about how that pick worked out. Kirksey was a really good pick, even though I hated the pick when it was made. He was an effective ILB for the team, and showed the ability tot work sideline to sideline. He can cover, and he can hold the point of attack. He had 5 tackles for loss, which was 5th on the team. He was a really good pick. West led the team in rushing. He was on his way to a great season until Mack got hurt. I should add that the scheme never seemed to adjust to the loss of Mack. We continued to run the same plays, up the middle, even though we lost out Pro Bowl Center, and even though they did not work. That is my one real complaint about Shanahan. However, 675 yards and 4 TD is not a bad rookie season. We also added a guy i Loved when we picked him up as an UDFA, and he was the guy I said could make a real impact ... that guy being Crowell. We appear to have this position well manned. Think back to what Farmer inherited at the RB position. He inherited ..... well, Obi, and nothing else. West was a very good pick. We also drafted Desir, who came on at the end of the season and showed some real promise. He looks like a kid who, with another off-season, could be a game changer. He certainly showed that he can lay at this level. So, our draft produced 3 season long starters, and a guy who contributed near the end of the season. That's more than you can expect from any draft, especially in year 1. We had problems at the top, and those were player problems, not big mistakes by the GM. (Not IMHO, anyway) Who wants Farmer fired? Apparently anyone who wants to go on and on and on about someting as inconsequential as txtgate ... and who isn't interested in offering what the solution is. I saw another 'quote' in someone's reply where it was "fix it" ... that is not a solution or a proposal. Here I'll prove that: What should we do about cancer? "Fix it" .... Its easy to say .... it means nothing. Ytown - I agree on all your points and I'd add the following: Who really wants to judge an entire draft after on season? A season where an entire FO was replaced 1/2 way into the previous off season.... Also - not only do you need to gauge the draft itself - but kudos needs to be given to the undrafted free agents bought in - of which Farmer had great success. Am I giving Farmer an 'A' - no. Am I saying he hasn't made mistakes? No. As boring as it is - his grade is incomplete. I see enough positives with the talent brought in to be encouraged. My biggest single issue with Farmer has nothing to do with txtgate - it has everything to do with not drafting a WR in the first 3 rounds last year in a draft pool thick with talent.
Last edited by mgh888; 02/10/15 03:29 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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As I have said, I would ask Pettine if he can work with Farmer and if he wanted to continue with Farmer. It would be his choice. If they arent on the same page one needs to go and I would rather keep the coach.
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That would work for me too - I don't believe it's so dysfunctional that it has come to needing to ask that question ... but for certain Pettine - who is much more visible and accountable due the the nature of their respective positions - has impressed me enough to want to give him every single opportunity to succeed 'his way'.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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As I have said, I would ask Pettine if he can work with Farmer and if he wanted to continue with Farmer. It would be his choice. If they arent on the same page one needs to go and I would rather keep the coach. Generally, I agree. All I'm terribly concerned about is the GM and Coach being on the same page. It'd also be nice if we had a QB too, but I know I'm asking too much.
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Pit, your point is taken.
However, Haslam can not be fired.
If he pushed the button on Manziel what can anyone do about it?
Farmer was hired as the General Manager by Haslam. When that session took place Farmer had a choice to make.
Accept the job as presented to him by Haslam. (If he felt desperate and that he would not get a second chance at a GM position). Accept the fact that Haslam could overrule him.
Or, make it crystal clear to Haslam that him accepting the job as GM that all draft decisions and all other decisions pertaining to the roster were his and his alone to make.
If your career is riding on that why would you accept any other condition.
Parcells did just that in New England.
Ray Farmer may or may not have the ability to evaluate talent. He may or may not have the right philosophy about how to build a team.
But if he does not have the stones to stand up for himself against the owner and make his position known.
Then I have no respect for him nor do I feel that he is qualified to be General Manager.
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I'm just wondering exactly what happened and who made that call.
There's nothing we can do about the owner. Which is why I'm wondering just how bad this all may end up to be. If the problem is with Haslam, there may be no fixing it/
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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As I have said, I would ask Pettine if he can work with Farmer and if he wanted to continue with Farmer. It would be his choice. If they arent on the same page one needs to go and I would rather keep the coach. And that is the essence of Haslam's job. Make sure Farmer, Pettine, and Scheiner can work well together and that they are doing their job and only their job, then write big checks and get the hell out of the way.
yebat' Putin
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If he felt desperate and that he would not get a second chance at a GM position)... IIRC, wasn't Farmer on the verge of signing with a Florida team (?) and we sorta stole him back?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Who wants Farmer fired? Apparently anyone who wants to go on and on and on about someting as inconsequential as txtgate ... and who isn't interested in offering what the solution is. I saw another 'quote' in someone's reply where it was "fix it" ... that is not a solution or a proposal. Here I'll prove that: What should we do about cancer? "Fix it" .... Its easy to say .... it means nothing. LOL............I find it hysterical when people put other people on ignore and still keep making comments about what that particular person said. Oh, and will someone quote this?  You can't make this crap up. For the rest of you...........my advice was not just "fix it," although I did use those words.
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Not sure if he was on the verge of signing. Maybe? The team was Miami.
Man.......if only it would have happened.
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Not sure if he was on the verge of signing. Maybe? The team was Miami.
Man.......if only it would have happened. Ouch!!!
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Not sure if he was on the verge of signing. Maybe? The team was Miami.
Man.......if only it would have happened. I don't understand why you stress that Banner and Co, Mangini and Co should've got more time, yet you here wishing Farmer would've went to Miami, and he's only been here a year.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I do think he should get more time. However, if he wasn't here, we wouldn't be dealing w/this mess right now.
Oh, and the two you named actually showed me that they had potential. I know you--and most others don't agree and I am not going to get into another argument about it---but that is what I believe.
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Not sure if he was on the verge of signing. Maybe? The team was Miami.
Man.......if only it would have happened. I don't understand why you stress that Banner and Co, Mangini and Co should've got more time, yet you here wishing Farmer would've went to Miami, and he's only been here a year. well obviously this is farmers second year. the first year he spent sabotaging the draft and back stabbing banner/lombardi by texting haslem so he could have the power.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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... back stabbing banner/lombardi by texting haslem so he could have the power. I don't believe I've heard that one before. Do you have any supporting sources?
Last edited by bbrowns32; 02/10/15 08:28 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Do you have any that he didn't? LOL
You guys make stuff up all the time. You ignore multiple reports and then rely on one report that cannot find. You bash one regime for wanting the coaching staff for wanting players to be accountable and said they were interfering. Then, the next year you ignore huge issues, such as telling the coaching staff who to play, breaking down film w/the coaches, and texting down play calls.
Speaking of proof...........can you absolutely prove that Shanny and Banner were LaCanafora's sources? If not, shut up.
See how that works, bro? You simply can't have it both ways.
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Do you have any that he didn't? LOL
What!!! I ask an honest question because I've never heard of this and I get a diatribe on Shanahan-LomBanner-LaCanfora...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Did you ask the same question when others posted that crap about LaCanafora and Shanny?
Nope.
You believe what you want to believe.
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Did you ask the same question when others posted that crap about LaCanafora and Shanny?
Nope.
You believe what you want to believe. Yes, and I had previously expressed my rationale behind my beliefs. I had no need to ask any questions about the KS/JLC issue as there were already article(s) out there. My opinion was formed based on established facts subject to change as further facts arise...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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... back stabbing banner/lombardi by texting haslem so he could have the power. I don't believe I've heard that one before. Do you have any supporting sources? HAHAHA. yea. a friend who has a friend that lives there knows a homeless man that was talking to unnamed sources so...... ofcouse its true!!!!!!!
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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... back stabbing banner/lombardi by texting haslem so he could have the power. I don't believe I've heard that one before. Do you have any supporting sources? HAHAHA. yea. a friend who has a friend that lives there knows a homeless man that was talking to unnamed sources so...... ofcouse its true!!!!!!! Next time use purple so we don't waste our time...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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... back stabbing banner/lombardi by texting haslem so he could have the power. I don't believe I've heard that one before. Do you have any supporting sources? HAHAHA. yea. a friend who has a friend that lives there knows a homeless man that was talking to unnamed sources so...... ofcouse its true!!!!!!! Next time use purple so we don't waste our time... see how realistic that was. no reason it could not have been that way. i mean thats the reason he didnt take the miami job. he was and still is power hungry.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c:
Here is my biggest concern with Ray Farmer-- This guy may end being up the ultimate pushover as a GM.
First, the 2014 draft. Many have said (either after reading a report or listening to Pettine) that Gilbert was a player Pettine wanted. Farmer obliged. Then we have the Johnny Manziel selection and Haslem. Farmer obliged. The following picks after that- Bitonio, Kirksey, and West have so far proved to be decent pick ups, but not without it's ups and downs. Bitonio being an homerun.
When others have been reported to be involved in the draft is where the questions begin.
Second, text-gate. I have no idea what really is going on or if the team/Farmer will be penalized (I'm expected something heavy to be handed down, though) but reports have surfaced that Farmer texting may be a result of other executives raising the questions to the sideline, namely Haslem, and it's simply Farmer's phone being used.
These issues tell me that Farmer, as others have posed on here, has shown to be a 'yes-man' when people want him to do something. I think that is a big problem for a General Manager.
This issue, in one form or another, has plagued this team for years. People want more control over personnel matters because it is flashy and the direct route to looking smart when building a team. I cannot count how many times I said that any regime needs to allow the GM to have final say over personnel matters. Once you muddy the waters, especially early in a new regime, it is hard to ever reign things back into place, IMO.
I would hope this upcoming draft Farmer tries to control the entire draft. Again, the waters seem clearly muddied in Berea on who has final say with many things. Farmer needs to have the testicular fortitude to grab personnel matters by the horns and figuratively say/express:
"I got this. I'll definitely ask for your opinion and listen to you, but the decision is ultimately mine."
I don't think that line has been drawn. And if he fails in those decision making matters, then he's fired. But he has to at least command charge of personnel matters. From the outside looking in, I don't get the sense he's done that.
Hopefully the reported retreat with the executives laid everything out on the line. It might have been a really good exercise if done correctly.
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I can't really say I'm a fan of farmer, I didn't care for most of his draft, the way he handled things in the season and if he is indeed the responsible party for the texting, and it costs the team picks, he absolutely should be fired. I'm all for continuity, but not for just the sake of it. If you screw up and you cost your company financially and/or reputation, then you should be fired. Thats what I like to call an RGE. "Resume Generating Event"
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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I'm sure there was a lot of discussion involved - it wasn't just a - Oh ok I'll do what you ask.
Discussion and a consensus agreement.
But it also is the first year. I'm sure all personnel not with existing working experience with each other will be more apt to oblige as not to seem like a control freak. Its year one.
As long as there is no POWER GRAB conflict between FO and HC...that is all I care about. We will continue to work and EVOLVE into a viable organization.
I mean everyone is like - Dysfunctional this and dysfunctional that. It takes time to make a good thing. We still have to evolve and no we haven't been evolving since 1999 - these guys deserve their shot which started 2014.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Please don't use the term 'consensus' after 2013. I almost threw up. 
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I'm sure there was a lot of discussion involved - it wasn't just a - Oh ok I'll do what you ask.
Discussion and a consensus agreement.
But it also is the first year. I'm sure all personnel not with existing working experience with each other will be more apt to oblige as not to seem like a control freak. Its year one.
As long as there is no POWER GRAB conflict between FO and HC...that is all I care about. We will continue to work and EVOLVE into a viable organization.
I mean everyone is like - Dysfunctional this and dysfunctional that. It takes time to make a good thing. We still have to evolve and no we haven't been evolving since 1999 - these guys deserve their shot which started 2014.
jmho I completely agree with this. First year for the owner, GM, coaching staff and our draft picks. There's just not enough data to write off last years draft. No one can say Gilbert and JM won't evolve into great players. Seems some have been disappointed about how this team has been playing for so long they throw in the towel way too early. Just because someone was drafted in the first round doesn't mean they should be playing at pro-bowl level at the first snap. As far as text gate goes, I place that in the bone head bucket and it doesn't mean squat at this point unless they take an early round pick from us and even then will not define a mans career. JMHO
The Constitution shall never be construe to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Memphis I believe your theory is a correct one and one that I've stated before. You have La Confora, Bernie and Shea alluding to very similar issues. Unless people believe there's some sort of conspiracy going on here, there has to be at least some merit to it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
Second, text-gate. I have no idea what really is going on or if the team/Farmer will be penalized (I'm expected something heavy to be handed down, though) but reports have surfaced that Farmer texting may be a result of other executives raising the questions to the sideline, namely Haslem, and it's simply Farmer's phone being used. lol. Or it could have been... Ray gets up to go to the bathroom, and Haslam picks up his phone and starts texting...lol
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
Second, text-gate. I have no idea what really is going on or if the team/Farmer will be penalized (I'm expected something heavy to be handed down, though) but reports have surfaced that Farmer texting may be a result of other executives raising the questions to the sideline, namely Haslem, and it's simply Farmer's phone being used. lol. Or it could have been... Ray gets up to go to the bathroom, and Haslam picks up his phone and starts texting...lol (Just laughed out loud at work.....subsequently sent to HR.)
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,812
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,812 |
Owner: Browns support Ray Farmer BEREA, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns general manager Ray Farmer has admitted within the team that he did send text messages during games last season, owner Jimmy Haslam said Wednesday. Even though the texting is a violation of NFL rules, Haslam said Farmer has the full support of the organization. "I think Ray Farmer knows and has [privately] said that he has made a mistake in sending those texts," Haslam said in a meeting with the team's beat writers. "Ray feels terrible about it. Ray's a guy -- I've known a lot of people -- I think has utmost integrity." Haslam did not get into the texts, but he emphasized that Farmer has his full support. The NFL is investigating the issue because texting from members of the front office during games to any coach or team employee is a violation of the rules. The NFL investigation is ongoing, and Haslam said the league has told the Browns it has not come to any conclusions or decisions. "I don't want to talk about it," Haslam said. "I'll just say that I don't think Ray intended to gain any unfair advantage and he's learned from his mistakes." http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/123112...ing-texts-games
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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