|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Hey, seeing JFF even win a regular season game would be a start. Much less going 6 and 6 in his first 12 starts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
You can't do what Kraft has done unless you have your Bill Belichick. He didn't exactly find Belichick, Parcells did.. then they lucked into Tom Brady. But we will never know if we have a Belichick because we won't let a guy struggle for a few years like Belichick did to figure it out. Kraft didn't really do squat until he got his Belichick. That's when things began to happen.
Really, Kraft only made two good decisions. Hiring Belichick and letting him do his job. Kraft owned the team for 9 years before Belichick, when he bought the team they had not had more than 6 wins in the previous 5 years... the records after he bought them, 10-6, 6-10, 11-5, 10-6, 9-7, 8-8 with 4 playoff appearances and a super bowl appearance.. I wish we could have "nothing" happen like that.  In fact you could make the argument that in Belichicks first year, they regressed to 5-11.. enter Tom Brady and 13 of 14 double digit win seasons, 6 super bowl appearances and 4 victories... so did Brady make Belichick or did Belichick make Brady? Either way, the combination of those two made Kraft.
Last edited by DCDAWGFAN; 02/10/15 05:42 PM.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
He didn't exactly find Belichick, Parcells did.. then they lucked into Tom Brady. But we will never know if we have a Belichick because we won't let a guy struggle for a few years like Belichick did to figure it out.
Partly correct. When Parcells went to NE (1993-1996 Belichick was his DC for a short period of time. (1 yr) Then he followed Parcells to the Jets. From there Kraft hired him to replace Pete Carroll. So yes, no question, Parcells was intrumental in introducing Belichick to Kraft, but wasn't not involved in getting him hired as HC in 2000. And yes, they lucked into Tom Brady, or did they?  Kraft owned the team for 9 years before Belichick, when he bought the team they had not had more than 6 wins in the previous 5 years... the records after he bought them, 10-6, 6-10, 11-5, 10-6, 9-7, 8-8 with 4 playoff appearances and a super bowl appearance.. I wish we could have "nothing" happen like that. Oh you bet I'd have loved that. we all would have. but let's be honest, Bill Parcells isn't exactly Chopped liver so my sentiment still hold water. He got HIS bill Belichick but he just happened to be named Parcells LOL
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/10/15 06:18 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Well lets give Haslam his 9 years.
Also which of those years after he bought the team before BB was the year they drafted Drew Bledsoe? That first year? or the one before?
jmhcuriosity
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I don't remember anyone "assailing your character." What I remember is you found him guilty of things you had no evidence of -- not one iota of proof. You just declared him guilty without any facts to back up your charges. That is an outright lie!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
What we can do is take an honest look at where we are. Yes, honesty and reality. Less drama. For anyone to speculate that Carr or Bridgewater will win more playoff games than Manziel is simply blowing hot air. I'm tired of reading we should have drafted them. There isn't one issue I've ever disagreed with more on this board. If Bridgewater or Carr ever make it to a second tier status, not elite but second tier starting NFL quarterback status, I will be blown away. I don't want to hate on them, I think they both are probably really good guys, but it will take more of a miracle for either one of them to overcome their deficiencies than it will for Manziel. IMO We gambled on Johnny's upside and his upside was huge. Bridgewater and Carr are who they are. Unless they have a major transformation their ceiling has practically been reached. When things get tight, when games mean something, when its late November, when they are playing against a top defense in weather, when its third down and nine, then and only then will it matter to me what they do. Are you pulling an anarchy? No one is really that misinformed, are they?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
But we will never know if we have a Belichick because we won't let a guy struggle for a few years like Belichick did to figure it out. This is a point I have been trying to make ad nauseam. Perfection is expected and demanded. People continue to ignore that the only constant over the last 15 terrible years is change.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I don't want to hate on them, I think they both are probably really good guys, but it will take more of a miracle for either one of them to overcome their deficiencies than it will for Manziel. IMO Of those three, how many looked like a high schooler who won a contest on the field? How many traveled with their team for the last game? How many are in rehab?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
But we will never know if we have a Belichick because we won't let a guy struggle for a few years like Belichick did to figure it out. This is a point I have been trying to make ad nauseam. Perfection is expected and demanded. People continue to ignore that the only constant over the last 15 terrible years is change. Yup. Sad to say but even if Pettine isn't the guy to win it all for the Browns we need to give him 4 or 5 years just to show the next coach we'll hang in there. We better hope Pettine is the guy!
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074 |
People continue to ignore that the only constant over the last 15 terrible years is change. I've railed on this point for years, My Dawg. There IS one other constant, Rish... and it goes hand-in-hand with the point you made: This team is constantly at the bottom of the league standings, year after year.It may be possible for a mediocre team to catch lightning in a bottle for a season, but to build a perennial contender takes time and stability. If a system gets put into place, a team can afford to let players AND some coaches come and go, as long as their replacements fit the system. In Cleveland's case, we've never even kept a FO for more than 4 years... so how can we develop a "system' under those conditions? My biggest fear is that Haslam will do another blow-up at the end of 2015... which would be the worst thing that could happen. My opinion: the loss of Kyle Shanahan is more injurious to the Browns than it would be for our divisional rivals because of the newness of the entire FO/coaching staff. Established teams can absorb the loss of an OC or DC without taking a major hit in team chemistry and year-to-year production. Teams that are still trying to find themselves will take such a hit much harder. Case in point: NE barely missed a beat when Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel left. Pittsburgh hasn't exactly suffered like Cleveland since Ken Whisenhunt and Bruce Arians left. The difference: they had an established philosophy and approach that allowed them to "plug & play"... even when it came to high-profile coaches. In systems like that, players (even high caliber ones) are even MORE interchangeable. That's why BOTH teams routinely allow their aging pro bowlers walk when their FA prices get too high: they know that THE SYSTEM made the player- not the other way around. In short, they can afford to let guys like Asante Samuel and Joey Porter go to other teams, because they'll simply cultivate a new one to replace them. A quick glance at our division shows one HUGE glaring difference between the Browns and the other 3 teams we play twice per year: They know who they are... and we don't. Not ever. Under those circumstances, it's always a pleasant surprise if we win over those teams. That ain't exactly a recipe for the playoffs, let alone a shot at the Super Bowl. __________ I guess my point is this, Dawgs: You start with a proven philosophy. From that, you hire people who will turn that philosophy into a system that works. Then, you stick with that system until the game forces you to change... and let's face it- the game doesn't really change that much from decade-to-decade, much less year-to-year. Here's the Real Truth, as I see it: Teams with multiple SB wins have teams that are built for longevity. Not just 20-game longevity, but 10-SEASON longevity. You need a formula and personnel that can get you to the dance every year. THAT's when you rack up more than one SB ring in a 10-year time frame, and begin to earn the title of dynasty. According to many, Cleveland's biggest problem has always been a "lack of identity." Well... you don't get an identity without first deciding what you're going to be, then sticking to a plan that actually HELPS you build that identity. And you can't do it in 2-3 years. We've wasted 15 years proving that. IMO, Haslam needs to let Farmer and Pettine work out the bugs that ALWAYS accompany a new start-up. He needs to commit to them for no fewer than 5 years... both of them- and let them build something more substantial than a temporary house of cards. If he can be patient, I truly believe that his patience will be rewarded with the kind of legacy that's attached to Kraft and the Rooneys. If he knee-jerks after next season (no matter what the final record is), Browns fans will be treated to 20 years of what we've seen since 1999. I'm really worried that Jimmy Haslam, neophyte owner that he is, will yank the entire works after next year... and set "Groundhog Day" into motion yet again. It would be the absolute worst thing he could do, if he wants to see his team win in his lifetime. Hitting the reset button will guarantee another 5 years of losing football... and he'll have noone else to blame but himself. I don't really trust him to have enough patience to actually do that. So far,he presents as a "Alpha Male/make stuff happen" kind of dude. That doesn't exactly spell "Mr Continuity" to me. If he surprises me, I'll give him props- and continue to hold out hope for this team. If he does what I expect him to do, I'll divest my emotional attachment to this team, once and for all. A sane man can only take so much insanity in his life before self-preservation instincts kick in. "If nothing ever changes, nothing ever changes."
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
But we will never know if we have a Belichick because we won't let a guy struggle for a few years like Belichick did to figure it out. This is a point I have been trying to make ad nauseam. Perfection is expected and demanded. People continue to ignore that the only constant over the last 15 terrible years is change. Yup. Sad to say but even if Pettine isn't the guy to win it all for the Browns we need to give him 4 or 5 years just to show the next coach we'll hang in there. We better hope Pettine is the guy! Giving Pettine the time (which I'm all for)is one thing, you also need to get him the players. The longer it takes to get them, the longer it will take for us to see Pettines true potential. I mean outside of a few guys, Pettine essentially had a very similar team to 2013. The difference is we won more games. That is the goal right? Give him the players and I think we have a winner in Pettine.
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/11/15 08:21 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
jc...
Kyle Shanahan was only going to be in Cleveland until he found another job he liked better.
That is "reality" folks..
Shanahan used the texting thing as an excuse to leave, because he knew he had another job he liked better, waiting for him.
Haslam and Farmer should have realized Shanahan was only going to be in Cleveland a year or two. The Shanahan hire was not going bring the Browns the "continuity" they said they were trying to establish.
I read that Pettine was considering DeFilippo when Shanahan was hired. The Browns would be much further ahead had Pettine insisted on DFlp.
Pettine needs coaches he can trust who have some core values..1.to do their job to the very best of their ability and 2. to be a team member.
Reality was, the Browns hired a couple of "rats" in Jan/Feb of 2014..coaches who would turn on the franchise at their first opportunity.
Coaching and managing a NFL franchise is like going to war...just like a soldier has to know that his fellow soldiers have his back...a headcoach has to know that he can trust those he is working and coaching with.
I believe Pettine is more comfortable with this coaching staff, trusting that DFlpo is a team guy and not going to stab him or the franchise in the back...and that means alot to the Browns.
Haslam, Farmer and Pettine got burned by Shanahan...and hopefully they learned a lesson or two. Know who you can trust should rank at the top, when judging coaches. If "trust" is not a 10 out of 10...better to pass that candidate.
One last thing..I hope that Haslam and Farmer learn to trust Pettine's judgement more. Less power at the top and more power at the HC level would be a benefit to this franchise.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
I believe Pettine is more comfortable with this coaching staff... I believe that is probably true as I expect that Pettine had significant influence over the hires...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,536
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,536 |
Mac - I tend to agree with your opinion on Shanahan, but I think you have to agree that we're assuming an awful lot with those conclusions.
Based on what has happened or what I think has happened - Banner/Lombardi & Manziel Pick & Shanahan & txtgate & Gordon .... Haslam and Farmer have been burnt a LOT in their first 2 seasons (I guess technically its Farmer's first season) .... I hope they take their lumps, learn and get better in the future. It's not enough to talk a good game (just see JM or JG for reference) you have to execute. I am hopeful that we are over the worst of the growing pains and 2015 will move the franchise forward substantially.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
I believe Pettine is more comfortable with this coaching staff... I believe that is probably true as I expect that Pettine had significant influence over the hires... I suspect that Pettine had almost exclusive authority over the hires. How did things go last year?
January 23: Pettine Hired
January 30: Loggains hired to be QB Coach or OC
February 3: Shanahan hired
February 6: McDaniel hired as WR Coach
February 11: Browns fire Banner and Lombardi
Now there is nothing all that weird in there, except for hiring Loggains first. He doesn't seem to have ties to anyone inside the organization, having spent 6 seasons with the Titans. Shanahan was hired here, 4 days or so after being fired in DC. I don't really know who made the final decision on that hire. Anyway, this staff is definitely Pettine's staff. He is responsible for making them into a top flight staff, or to make adjustments if they are needed. I think that he made a great hire with Defilippo. We'll see about the QB Coach, but just because he doesn't have experience does not mean that he is a bum. Everyone starts somewhere, and often a QB moves into coaching because a long term backup may have things down mentally, but just doesn't have the physical ability. That appears to be the case with O'Connell. He was with several teams, and saw how QBs are developed. We'll see how it works. I do not think that Loggains did a very good job with Hoyer or Manziel, because neither guy had solid, consistent mechanics, and Hoyer struggled, and then went on a downward spiral as the year progressed. The QB coach has to pull the QB back to basics when this happen, and Loggains never did. We'll see how things work out. I think that we're going to have a great year next year.:D
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188 |
Good post.
A number of times I have stated close to the same thing. (But I like the additional points you made):
"In order to draft well consistently you have to have organizational continuity.
The Patriots and Ravens are a good example.
Over the years they have developed a playing personality.
They use free agency, trades, and the waiver wires to select players to fill specific jobs. And they draft guys who "fit" their culture.
Belichick can often be heard "just do your job".
Mike Vrabel is a good example. They got him from the Steelers and utilized his smarts, leadership and in his case his versatility.
The Pats always draft low in the round and often trade out of the first round to acquire more picks. They fill the roster with mid round players to "fit". Example Tedy Bruschi 3rd round key player in their scheme.
Ozzie Newsome has been a master of drafting guys like Haloti Ngata, and CJ Mosely. Hard nosed guys who play smart and work hard. Then using FA to get key guys like Anquan Boldin. Tough proven player who was key in their Super Bowl season.
When I hear Ray Farmer talk about building a culture and then he is exposed for what he is. I gag. Then others on this Board say it is no big deal if we have to give up a late round pick. Like that is all there is too this?
Then I listen to Haslam talk about the importance of continuity and putting men into defined roles and left alone to do their job. (*And then have to report directly to me, Mr. Haslam the owner.) A guy with his resume?
Just the thought of Mike Pettine having to watch film with Alec Scheiner, and Jimmy Haslam spells in bold letters where the Browns now are.
The draft is the lifeblood for every NFL team. "If" your draft fits into an organization with all it's oars in the water pulling in the same direction."
==============================================
*A quick glance at our division shows one HUGE glaring difference between the Browns and the other 3 teams we play twice per year: They know who they are... and we don't. Not ever. Under those circumstances, it's always a pleasant surprise if we win over those teams. That ain't exactly a recipe for the playoffs, let alone a shot at the Super Bowl.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hard to build a team when the organization is not on firm footing and no identity is established.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
jc...
Kyle Shanahan was only going to be in Cleveland until he found another job he liked better.
That is "reality" folks..
Shanahan used the texting thing as an excuse to leave, because he knew he had another job he liked better, waiting for him.
It's a funny thing about that. When Shanahan was hired, everyone talked about him leaving because of one reason, and one reason only...... That he would be a hot commodity for a head coaching job. That was it. It was speculated that he would be leaving Cleveland to be a head coach in the NFL. Not one person I can recall EVER said anything about leaving for a lateral move. Nobody. Now all of a sudden people saw this coming all along? Quite a strategical change of heart I must say. And in case you missed it, there were "32 reasons", not a single issue. Sometimes an employee learns not to trust the decisions of his employer. Sometimes people move on because they realize the people who employ them do not know how to build a franchise and it will hurt their career to stay there and will leave even for a lateral move if they feel it's necessary. Now I am not saying that happened. But what I can say is that is just as much of a logical conclusion as anything you posted. When you combine LaConfora, Bernie and Shea all eluding to the fact that there's a mess in Berea, I believe the dots connect much better with that theory than one concocted.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
Reading your post, it just hit me. Shanny supposedly had 32 reasons. Do you suppose the list was anything like this?
1. Don't want F.O. exec texting me plays during a game.
2-32. No other teams has a f.o. that does that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
Does Shanahan seem like the type who would write down 32 reasons in an attempt to justify him asking to leave the Browns?
Outing the Browns for texting the sidelines was the only reason needed.
I really doubt that Shanny wrote the 32 reasons...not that it matters.
Shanny wanted out because the Falcons were offering him the OC job...tipping the NFL off was enough.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Maybe not quite that devious.
But you never know many here think our FO and Owner are that devious so maybe Shanny is.
However I don't think Shanny was ran out of here due to dysfunction.
Pit states, woah guys we all heard the negative of Shanny leaving us soon for a HC deal as that was his ultimate goal. (not your exact quote but I think its fairly accurate Pit???)
But you have to consider this - he didn't get hardly any bites to interview for HC and there were several out there.
He has to go to a winning team that will go far in the playoffs possibly so to reach his goal he searched for a more lucrative OC job to advance his career. And no I have no proof just logic and the turn of events.
Pettine met with Farmer then with Shanny and Pettine came away that all was ironed out and we were moving forward to year 2. Pettine went on vacation.
When he came back it was then that he found out through the grapevine that Shanny was putting himself out there for a possible OC job.
Those are pretty much the facts that I read - I can't go and speculate things.
But I do have a question. How does one put themselves out there for a possible job when they are on contract to another team for 2 more years.
hmmm then came the revealing of the Text gate. What a coincidence and Shanny was released from his contract.
Now he onto a team with a pretty decent O more important an established Franchise QB. They go deep into the playoffs...Shanny gets his HC interviews!
jmho - lets put it this way. I trust Banner more than Shanny. Again that is my opinion.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Basically what I said Tab is that nobody predicted Shanny would leave for a lateral move when he was hired. They predicted he would leave for a HC job which is not at all what happened. Now it seems people have changed their story about that to fit what they wish to believe.
And if you wish to look at a comment from someone who may have some insight, it was Hoyer who said "He wouldn't leave just to leave". And the Falcons actually only won 6 games last year, one less than we did.
You can also add that LaConfora, Bernie and Shea spoke about some degree of dysfunction. So my opinion is drawn for differing sources and not just one.
Now I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinion, but for some to pretend their isn't a lot to be concerned about here I believe wish to neglect listening to at least three separate sources concerning the dysfunction that is clearly going on to try to blame those speaking up about the situation.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
... I trust Banner more than Shanny. That's a very provocative statement that should open up an avenue for further "discussion"...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam insisted Wednesday he fully supports Ray Farmer and has no plans to fire the embattled general manager despite his involvement in the texting scandal that's hovering over the organization like a dark cloud.
Haslam confirmed Farmer sent text messages about play calls to other members of the organization during games this past season, prompting an NFL investigation because league rules prohibit electronic communication about competitive or strategic information. The texting is believed to be a reason Kyle Shanahan resigned as offensive coordinator on Jan. 8.
"I think Ray Farmer knows and has [privately] said that he made a mistake in sending those texts," Haslam said during a 50-minute interview with beat writers. "Ray feels terrible about it. Ray's a guy -- I've known a lot of people -- I think he has utmost integrity. And I think it's important for you all to know that Ray has the organization's and my full support, and despite the fact that he made a mistake here, it does not affect his standing with the Browns. He is totally focused on doing whatever we're going to do in free agency and more importantly getting our organization ready for the draft."
The league has yet to wrap up its investigation. Once it does, Farmer could reportedly receive a suspension of a few games, and the organization could lose a draft pick, probably in the middle rounds, as well as be fined.
"The NFL has told us they have not made any decisions," Haslam said. ... "I don't think Ray intended to gain any unfair advantage, and he's learned from his mistakes."
Haslam declined to say whether he knew the texts were being sent or whether he influenced Farmer to send them.
"We sit together at away games, not home games," Haslam said. "I think I said I'm not going to comment on the texts, but Ray's a big boy. And if you've ever been with these GMs, they're texting people all the time and it may be somebody watching a game at a different stadium. So I think it's enough said on that."
Asked why he doesn't think Farmer deserves to be fired for the texting, Haslam said, "At the end of the day, that's my decision. I think you've got to look at individual's body of work, and we're comfortable with Ray's body of work. We're very comfortable.
"Ray's smart. He works hard. I think he understands football. He's been in football all his life. He relates extremely well to players. He knows it not only from a personnel standpoint, but from the way a game should be run and managed standpoint. I think he's an exceptional human being. I hate this. As bad as I hate it for the organization, I hate it more for Ray Farmer. I can tell you it eats him up every day. But I'm very comfortable with the job he's doing."
Here are some other highlights from Haslam's interview:
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said training camp will stay in Berea this year. Said Columbus being explored as future option.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on Johnny Manziel entering rehab: I applaud him for raising his hand and saying I need help.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam: I think it's way too early to give up on Johnny Manziel.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said team didn't mandate rehab for Johnny Manziel. Said he has no expectation for when Manziel would rejoin team.
#Browns owner Haslam on drafting Manziel despite red flags: "I don't know how much of Johnny's personal life was known by everybody then."
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said organization "absolutely" still believes Johnny Manziel can be starter in #NFL.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said Dowell Loggains' story about how team drafted Manziel was inaccurate. Reiterated Manziel was top QB on board
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on team's interest in re-signing QB Brian Hoyer: We're going to explore every option.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on possibly trading up to draft QB in 1st rd: "We've said we would do what's necessary to solve the QB situation"
#Browns owner Haslam: Kevin O'Connell isn't under contract w/ us. He's got another week working w/ Mariota. Hope he works for us after that.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said "it's crazy" to say biz side impacted QB situation. Said Pettine made decision to go with Manziel late in yr
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said WR Josh Gordon has failed to accept responsibility. Said for at least a year, we've moved on from him.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam: no hurry to decide whether to cut Josh Gordon b/c he won't be w/ team, but we'll make decision at certain point
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said he feels very good about where organization is heading. Said CBS Sports' scathing report is not accurate.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on reports of dysfunction: We don't think everything is great. But we work together & it's not dysfunctional.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said Pres Alec Scheiner watches film w/Ray Farmer to learn, not Mike Pettine. Said Alec "absolutely not" divisive
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on whether he'll add to front office: I'm really comfortable with the people in our front office & its structure.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said it's a misconception coaches, execs want out of here b/c it's dysfunctional. Said key people like it here.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said he thinks the franchise will be less involved in free agency this year than last.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on report TE Jordan Cameron isn't interested in re-signing with Cleveland: I don't think it's accurate.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam: Team loves FS Tashaun Gipson and is working with him. Gipson is set to become restricted free agent.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam: Nobody doubts CB Justin Gilbert's ability. He needs to mature. I've told him that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
It is my OPINION that you and tab's posts are short-sighted, biased, and intended to mislead people.
Did you really say: Does Shanny seem like the type to write down 32 reasons? Seriously?
The guy has a brilliant mind and is very meticulous.
Let me guess. Not only is he a rat and deceitful, but he is also lazy and stupid?
Y'all are unbelievable.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
How many outright lies do you think are in those replies?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,350
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,350 |
I believe Jimmy Haslam is working at being an owner that we as Browns fans are all going to be proud of. He has a lot of passion for this team and is determined to bring a winner here. It is possible he may have made a minor mistake or 2 but it is a learning process for him too. I believe he has integrity and will be the first owner to bring a SB trophy to Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Man, this article is amazing. Most of you will defend the Browns and say they are smart. I say it is another example of how sleazy we are: Complaints begin about Browns brazenly exploiting loophole Posted by Mike Florio on February 11, 2015, 9:00 AM EST Browns Getty Images If the Browns showed the same kind of reckless abandon on the field that their front office displays away from it, the team might actually become a contender. At a time when the franchise is bracing for potentially significant penalties for violating the rules regarding in-game electronic communications, the Browns have jammed their way through a loophole that allows their technically-not-hired-yet quarterbacks coach to work with one of the top quarterback prospects in the draft — at a time when none of the other teams can even talk to him. As noted earlier by Gantt, future Browns quarterbacks coach Kevin O’Connell currently is working with quarterback Marcus Mariota. Since the Browns haven’t officially hired O’Connell yet, the eventual employee can do things that he couldn’t do if he weren’t currently an employee. “So let me get this straight,” a high-level executive with another team told PFT on Wednesday morning. “The Browns can have their quarterbacks coach in waiting work with a player, teach him the entire offense, etc., but we can’t even talk to any potential draft pick until the Combine per league rules? Something is wrong here.” While the Browns have yet to publicly acknowledge that O’Connell will be getting the job, it has been widely reported that O’Connell will be getting the job. NFL Media, partially owned by the Browns, has reported that the Browns will hire O’Connell — and the Browns have never refuted it. Even if the league looks the other way on this one, the know-it-when-you-see-it decision of the Browns to brazenly flaunt the rules won’t do much to encourage lenience when the time comes to drop the hammer over the brazen flaunting of the rules that resulted in G.M. Ray Farmer, either acting alone or at the behest of those above him (bet the over), to send text messages to the coaching staff during games. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...iting-loophole/
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I think teams exploit loopholes and cracks in the system all the time. I really don't care if it helps us win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Of course you don't. I am looking at it in a larger framework. It's part of a pattern of how the Browns have behaved since Haslam has taken over. An objective person might also factor in Haslam's past in the business world. This will be similar to the Gordon argument. Doing the right thing is not important. We will look at other violators and transgressors and use them as justification for our own misdeeds. From one of my favorite poems: You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
And get pats on the back as you pass
But your final reward will be heartache and tears
If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
... future Browns quarterbacks coach Kevin O’Connell currently is working with quarterback Marcus Mariota... Does anyone know whether KOC is working with Mariota under contract, verbal agreement, whatever?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
... a high-level executive with another team told PFT on Wednesday morning. Joe, is that you? And how is the weather down South?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
#Browns owner Haslam on drafting Manziel despite red flags: "I don't know how much of Johnny's personal life was known by everybody then." This is not true at all. It was right in front of your face, yelling into it.
#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on reports of dysfunction: We don't think everything is great. But we work together & it's not dysfunctional.
If people are working together towards dysfunctional failure, it doesn't mean they are functional. The more Haslam speaks, the more he reminds me of George W. Bush. Guy born on third base who thinks he invented baseball.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Do you pay taxes vers? Do you use the tools you are given to reduce your taxable income?
Some people would call those tools Loopholes..
And I use them every stinking chance I get.
If in any way, we get an edge from this,, GREAT. it's within the rules.
Now, if you combine that article with a statement Haslam made, you might, If you have an open mind, see that O'Connell has a commitment for another week or so and after that, Haslam said hopes Kevin joins the Browns.
It appears clear that you've decided that everything Haslam says is a lie so I don't really expect you to look at this objectively, but even you have to admit, the pieces fit together.
So I'm chalking this article up to a reporter jumping on the "browns are dysfunctional" band wagon.
As with most things, there is a little truth to both sides. But there is always someone that won't accept that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
... future Browns quarterbacks coach Kevin O’Connell currently is working with quarterback Marcus Mariota... Does anyone know whether KOC is working with Mariota under contract, verbal agreement, whatever? He apparently made a commitment to him. I don't know if it's in writing or a handshake. but while he's doing that, I'd suspect it would be against NFL rules to be with a Team. Perhaps it's as simple as he'll join the team when his commitment is complete.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 |
No kidding. I hope the Browns will use every loophole available to improve any facet of the organization.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
... future Browns quarterbacks coach Kevin O’Connell currently is working with quarterback Marcus Mariota... Does anyone know whether KOC is working with Mariota under contract, verbal agreement, whatever? He apparently made a commitment to him. I don't know if it's in writing or a handshake. but while he's doing that, I'd suspect it would be against NFL rules to be with a Team. Perhaps it's as simple as he'll join the team when his commitment is complete. Frankly, I think that the Browns tried to hire him outright but that he was contractually obligated and wasn't let out of it. The Browns may be willing to wait and to take advantage of the situation as it's materialized for them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
If we get chastised or penalized by the NFL for this then the Falcons should get the same for Quinn. Quinn becoming HC of Atlanta was the worst kept secret in the NFL. Yet I haven't heard anyone complain. They clearly had a verbal contract which is prohibited by NFL rules.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 26
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 26 |
Been out with chemo therapy for last ten days and missed all of this. Seems like everyone has a lot to say and lots of opinions. Couldn't read them all. Figured I might as well add my own.
Some have said there is nothing new in La Canfora’s article. That is largely true. However, what the article does is an excellent job of summarizing and putting into perspective the Brown’s story since Haslam became the owner. Sure it contains assumptions and is not limited to facts. But how long an article would it be if it was confined to facts? The FO is never going to admit to any errors in judgement of dysfunction. Has anyone worked for a boss who has ever admitted he was wrong? No, after the organizational failures become public knowledge, the senior management close ranks and looks for lower echelon scapegoats. Such is the case with the Browns. Haslam did nothing wrong, nor did Farmer, blame the assistant coaches and players. My point is, in absence of any factual information to the contrary we should examine this article at face value. When I do, several points come to mind.
Like La Canfora I saw the arrival of Haslam as the savior of the Browns. Here was a guy who had NFL ownership experience with the Steelers, but more importantly here was a man of the fans who actually sat in the Dawg Pound. This was a person who would manage with a firm hand, but had the sense to step back and let the football operations take care of themselves. Was I ever wrong! What we got is an owner who clearly talks too much. The analogy of Jerry Jones with no football IQ is a good one. Haslam seems to be constantly making statements defending himself and his judgement. What other owner is doing this? The guy needs to keep his mouth shut! Yes, he has had a firm hand. God knows, he does have that. But maybe it’s been way too firm. You can't have any business acting as a revolving door for your management team. Did Haslam skip Business Management 101 in college? Bottom line, Haslam comes across as a major disappointment as an owner. Going forward he needs to shut up and let his minions do their jobs.
Next we have the Ray Farmer incident. I am not an NFL GM, but even I was aware there were restrictions on contact with players or coaches during NFL games. This guy supposedly has 10 years experience in the NFL. How could he not know about this rule? And why was he contacting the coaches? As a GM was he trying to call plays? At a minimum this strikes me no less than total incompetence. And Haslam backs him and says he will learn from his mistakes. Really, Farmer’s first draft gave us Manzel and Gilbert and no wide receiver. He’s got two first round draft picks this year. As incompetent as he has been are we to believe he suddenly will change? He needs to get help in the FO, someone with player evaluation and personnel experience . He clearly is in over his head and the Brown’s can't afford another botched draft. The organization needs all the help they can get in the FO because thus far they have looked more like the Clowns than the Browns.
Finally, I don't get all the love for Pettine. Maybe it’s because he has been the least unprofessional of a largely unprofessional lot. Yes, he went 7-9 his first year, but it was a soft schedule against largely inferior teams. Let’s look at what else he has done. Made an awful decision to start a player at QB who should never have been on an NFL field; was unable to control dysfunction among both his players and coaches; and most recently allowed his Offensive Coordinator (arguably his best coach) to walk without ever coming to his defense or making an effort to retain him. Sorry I don't see this as a very impressive track record. I get that he needs to be retained to establish continuity in the Brown’s coaching ranks, but he doesn't deserve the praise he is getting. He simply is another rookie head coach that did a mediocre job for a pedestrian franchise and has yet to prove himself to the NFL or fans.
Ok, so these are my opinions. I believe the best that can happen is we hear no more from or about the Browns until after the draft when they are being praised by all of the analysts for their brilliant draft. Yeah, and I really believe that will happen. More likely Jimmy will shoot off his mouth again next week with another other dumb ass irrelevant statement.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,317
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,317 |
'Browns owner says team didn't know about Johnny Manziel's personal life' http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-215143724.htmlBy Frank Schwab 10 hours ago Shutdown Corner Jimmy Haslam must not have access to the Internet. That's really the only way to explain how the Cleveland Browns' owner could have not known about Johnny Manziel's off-field red flags when the team drafted him in the first round last year. Here's what Haslam said about Manziel during a press conference on Wednesday: "I don't know how much of Johnny's personal life was known by everybody then," Haslam said, according ot the Akron Beacon-Journal. Come on. There's two ways to view that quote: Either Haslam is lying or the Browns are the worst organization in sports. For the sake of Cleveland fans, don't answer that. Manziel's penchant for going out was a massive story when he was at Texas A&M and leading up to the draft as well. Here's a passage from ESPN.com's Wright Thompson's story on Manziel, from July 30, 2013. This was written by Thompson nine months before the Browns drafted Manziel, with references to Manziel's father Paul and Texas A&M coach Kevin Sumlin: "Paul thinks Johnny drinks to deal with the stress. After his arrest, Johnny's parents and Sumlin mandated he visit an alcohol counselor; Johnny saw him six or seven weeks during the season." Dr. Saturday wrote extensively about Manziel's life in the spotlight. Everyone did. The extent of Manziel's issues that caused him to check into a treatment facility might not have been clear, but if Haslam and the Browns' front office didn't know anything about Manziel's off-field life, they were the only ones in the football world who were unaware. But that's practically inconsequential going forward. The Browns invested a first-round pick into Manziel just a year ago and want to make it work. And Haslam said he thinks it can work. "It's way too early to give up on Johnny," Haslam said, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "We certainly haven't given up on him. Everybody's been too harsh." Haslam said he didn't know when Manziel would return to the team, but he supported his decision to go to rehab. It would be enormous for the Browns franchise if Manziel can become a franchise quarterback. And the Browns franchise could use some good news. The Browns have a lot of issues but one of the most pressing ones is the NFL investigation into Browns general manager Ray Farmer sending texts to the sideline during games. The messages were relayed to the coaches on the sideline, and that's not allowed by the NFL. The punishment could be as harsh as the loss of a draft pick. "He said he feels he made a mistake in sending those texts," Haslam said, via the Plain Dealer. "But it does not affect his standing with the club. I don't think Ray intended to gain an unfair advantage." (end)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
I trust Banner more than Shanny. Again that is my opinion.
Joe Banner is a "rat enabler"...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns' Mess Starts with Haslem
|
|
