DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Your 5-Step Plan For The Browns

It is often said that the best defense is a strong offense. This is also applicable in life as well. Just check out some of the posting philosophies on this board...

LOL That's true. I do it myself at times. (and probably shoudn't)

My five step plan for our Browns? It's actually not all that hard...


#1 - Do whatever the hell we can to re-sign/extend the following players...

a.) Buster Skrine
b.) Miles Austin (1 year small deal).
c.) Craig Robertson (He's a RFA either this year or next).
d.) Tashaun Gipson
e.) Phil Taylor (extend him but make most of his money bonus oriented)

#2 - Franchise tag Jordan Cameron. I get that he doesn't want to be here but we can slap the tag on him and either let him and sign and play or we can tag him and attempt to trade him during the draft for a 5th round pick or something. I think after a long enough time period he'll take the money, suck it up and play here in attempt to drive up his value next year. If we're successful in 2015 maybe he'll consider staying in Cleveland beyond that. Winning cures all ales.

#3 - Sign the following players in free agency...

a.) Cecil Shorts III WR/Jacksonville
b.) Brian Orakpo OLB/Washington
c.) Mike Iupati OG/San Francisco
d.) Dan Williams DE/Arizona
e.) Charles Clay TE/Miami

We've addressed five areas of need THAT quickly...

#4 - Call up Philadelphia or St. Louis and discuss their current QB situations and how much it would take to make a trade for either Nick Foles or Sam Bradford. The Eagles have made it clear they want Mariota, so if I'm Farmer I'm offering them our 2nd & 3rd round pick in exchange for Nick Foles. This in return gives them quite a bit of ammo to move up the board to get Mariota. If St. Louis is willing to give up Sam Bradford for a 3rd round pick (and maybe a 6th rounder) then I go ahead and make that deal. Obviously don't trade for both of them, but grab one or the other. Let's say in this scenario we land Sam Bradford for a 3rd & 6th round draft pick...

#5 - Draft the following players somewhere...

a.) Jaelen Strong WR/Arizona State (1st round)
b.) Danny Shelton DT/Washington (1st round)
c.) Jeremiah Putasi RT/Utah (2nd round)
d.) Stefan Diggs Return Man/Maryland (4th round)
e.) Shaq Mason C/Georgia Tech (4th round)



That's my five step plan to fix the Browns. (the most realistic scenario anyway).

We address depth and add plenty of talent in this scenario.

We let Sam Bradford and Johnny Manziel duke it out for the starting quarterback position in training camp.

I think if we can protect Bradford he can be really productive.

That's a very good 5 step plan if you can pull it off. Especially the fa signings. I'd rather try for Nf than SB simply because SB is so injury prone. You know if he comes here he will get hurt.

J/C

I've read several comments suggesting we offer the Eagles one or both of our firsts for Foles, so the Eagles can trade up for Mariota. Whether or not Foles is worth it isn't my question.

My question is, wouldn't it be easier for the Eagles to offer Foles and their own #1 and other picks to the Bucs for example to move directly to #1? They may not necessarily need a 3rd party.

That does make sense but if I'm the Eagles I want to try and trade Foles OUT of the conference so you only have to see him once every four years...The more picks they own, the more likely they'll be able to move up. A team such as Tampa Bay or Tennessee might be enticed by having LOT's of picks more so than just a QB, but the smart thing would be to offer them Foles and their #1 pick, you're right.

After the Nat'l Championship game, most people assumed Winston would go #1 and that Mariota was "exposed" for lack of a better term. Philly trading up would have been starting with #2 to a team that wasn't necessarily looking for a QB (which is why Mariota would be available.) If the team they are looking to move up with wasn't necessarily looking for a QB, Foles doesn't become a significant trade chip in the exchange. that's why it's assumed Philly would have to execute two trades to make it happen. One to get more draft resources (which is basically cash-equivalent in terms of NFL trades... everyone uses it and most agree on it's value) via player trades, then making a second trade to move up to get Mariota.

I agree with most of your 5 part plan.. except Franchising Jordan Cameron. To me, Cameron is a disaster as a blocker and is a concussion away from having to retire from football.

I may nit-pick the choices of which FA's to sign, primarily because you never know the agenda of other teams or the FA's themselves. Plus why do you invest in Cameron as a Franchise player and advocate signing Clay?

The way I see it with JC is, I don't care if he is all-world, 1 good knock and he's done. Whether it be for a few games or the season. I can see someone taking a shot at his head after a catch over the middle. I like him as a player but he is done as far as his health is concerned. I would not chance it.

1. Re-sign Hoyer. Check. He's a proven WINNER even though the back end of 2014 was a lost cause. He's the guy to get us to the next guy (who is hopefully a true franchise QB).

2. Sign/draft someone to provide OL depth especially at C. We all saw what happened to our running game and pass protection when Mack went down last year. Probably affected Hoyer more than some are willing to admit.

3. Sign/draft someone to get pressure on the opposing QB.

4. Sign/draft a WR who can legitimately stretch the field. If we're going to pound the rock we need to avoid 8-9 man fronts on a consistent basis.

5. Get rid of Manziel. Creates nothing but a circus environment in Berea and everywhere else. This team needs to focus. We don't need more daily press conferences from a 3rd string clipboard holder. Get well JJO. Good luck with your next team.

Might as well put mine out there.

Step One: Resign(by level of importance) Skrine, Hoyer. Austin & Rubin. I did not include Gipson, Robertson, Bademosi and Lanning because they are RFA but them as well.

Step Two: Break the bank for Suh. He will impact our team as much as any QB we can bring in. Offer to make him the richest defender in football. Our D becomes top 5 instantly. Also sign Cecil Shorts. Perhaps some role players/high potential prove it contracts like Anthony Spencer, Darren McFadden, BJ Raji, Akeem Ayers, O'Brien Schofield, Sam Acho, Heyward Bey, Denarious Moore, Lance Kendricks.

Step Three: If Mariota falls to 5 trade both 1st to move up. Let him be the rookie Johnny should have been. Learn how to operate an NFL offense and if he beats out Hoyer so be it.If he doesn't fall to 5 sit back and build the team into a powerhouse.

I have a lot of tape to watch but at 12 my board today would be Shane Ray, Danny Shelton, Devante Parker or trade down. At 19 the same but add Cameron Irving, Devin Funchess(really like him for us), Andreus Peat, Erick FLowers, Jaelen Strong.

Step Four: Fill in the gaps. Ideally coming out of the offseason with the QB situation either fully devoted for this FO or hanging by a string with Hoyer but a damn good team behind him. A new FB. 6 competent WR with flexibility for a wide range of sets. Funchess is a must for me. I dont like the TE options this year and he gives us a back pylon WR that can play out of any position WR, TE, slot. If not a new high end RT then a late depth move pr two on OL.

A stocked and loaded DL with a need to maybe trade Hughes or Winn before they get big contracts. Suh, Bryant, Phil, Winn, Hughes, Rubin & Armonty is sick not to mention if we landed a BJ Raji or Danny Shelton. We'd need to trade one for sure then. Not wise to resign Winn and Hughes long term IMO next year. A new 2nd or 3rd round grade OLB to replace Sheard if not a Shane Ray to push Mingo. ILB is fine unless Perryman in the 2nd. CB is stacked but maybe a new backup safety to replace Leonard. And definitely the highest graded rook K.

Step Five: Don't cut Gordon and consider Johnny done unless proven otherwise. Cut Benjamin,

My preferred roster ends up.....(I'm not going to guess on late round rooks I'm not educated on yet)

QB: Hoyer, Mariota, Manziel

HB: Crow, West, McFadden, Glenn Winston

FB: rook

WR: Shorts, Funchess, Hawkins, Austin, Gabriel, Heyward Bey, Gordon

TE: Dray(sub Funchess), Barnidge, rook

OT: Joe, Schwartz, Bowie, rook

OG: Bitonio, Greco, Painter

C: Mack, McDonald

DL: Suh, Bryant, BJ Raji, Phil, Winn(Hughes traded), Rubin, Armonty

OLB: Kruger, Mingo, Akeem Ayers, rooke

ILB: Dansby, Perryman, Robertson, Kirksey

CB: Haden, Gilbert(I can hope right?), Skrine, Williams, Desir

S: Gipson, Hitner, Bademosi, Poyer, rook

K: rook

P: Lanning

PS: Connor Shaw, Calvin Barnett, Jacobi McDaniel

Been meaning do this for couple days, so ere goes.

Step 1, New contracts for Gipson, Skrine, Robertson, Austin, Bademosi, Lanning.
Let Rubin, Sheard, Cameron walk, release Benjamin, Phil Taylor(due 6.5m) this year i believe through 5th year option.

Step 2, Free agency, Target Cecil shorts WR, Dan Williams NT, Jermaine Gresham TE. Upgrade depth with Andre Holmes WR, Marcus Gilchrist S or Nate Allen S, Brooks Reed OLB, Jacquizz Rodgers RB or Bilel Powell RB.

Step 3, QB. No Hoyer, Aim big or go home, Hoyer isn't gonna win playoffs, see Dalton. Sign Jake Locker, Talented but injury prone, ok not big but wait, call both Eagles(Foles), Rams(Bradford) see what it will take to get either.If price is resonable get him and if not. Then at Draft if Mariota makes it to 2 go get him. Not Winston, no more headaches. If Mariota goes first, take either Petty or Grayson in third.

Step 4, Use remaining draft picks for OLB, WR, OL and depth in that order.

Step 5, If Mariota is here, move Johnny Manziel to Dallas for his own good, otherwise let him fight it out. Keep Gordon, costing nothing.

MY53 Roster
QB, Mariota, LOCKER, Shaw
RB, West, Crowell, RODGERS, Winston
FB, Draft or UDFA
WR, Austin, SHORTS, Hawkins, HOLMES, Gabriel, Draft
TE, GRESHAM, Dray, Barnidge
OT, Thomas, Schwartz, Bowie, Draft
OG, Greco, Bitonio, Draft
C, Mack, Seymour
DL, Bryant, WILLIAMS, Winn, Hughes, Kitchen, Armonty
OLB, Kruger, Mingo, REED, Solomon, Draft
ILB, Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey, Draft
CB, Haden, Skrine, Gilbert, Williams, Desir
S, Gipson, Whitner, GILCHRIST, Bademosi, Poyer
K, Draft or UDFA
P, Lanning

If we don't franchise tag Cameron, or he DOES leave Cleveland, I think we need to grab a solid free agent and then obviously draft a tight end in the 3rd or 4th round...

I don't think their is a tight end worth taking in the 1st round this year unless you're going to use Devin Funchess (WR/TE/Michigan) as a flex style tight end? We could probably land one in the 3rd round, I do like that Nick O'Leary from Florida State, seems like a hard working, blue collar style tight end.

I like Clive Walford a lot. I haven't slugged through all the teams' needs yet to figure out if I think he'll be available at 46, but he's the guy I would like to see us pick up there if available.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all...

If we can address the offensive & defensive line in free agency I'm 100% okay with double dipping at the skill position in the 1st round of the draft, however I don't really think it's realistic to expect that, but I would be absolutely tickled if we drafted Jaelen Strong & Devin Funchess at #12 and #19....

My 5 step plan:

1 - Sign Ryan Mallet. The only Qb in free agency or the draft that I think has the chance to become a top 10 in the league Qb in the next 2 years. I give him a 4 year contract in the Andy Dalton range. I think that would be enough to entice him to come here along with the promise of beefing up the Wr corp.

2 - Sign Cecil Shorts - we will add at least one if not two rookie wr and we need that veteran presence in the wr room. A good solid #2. Should be reasonably priced.

3 - Sign Jemaine Greshem TE - to replace Cameron. Better run blocker, healthier and an underrated receiver.

4 - Re-sign Tashaun Gipson. A key cog in the defense. URFA so no reason to lose him unless we try to get cute and end doing something stoopid.

5 - Let clevesteve make our draft picks rather than Farmer

1. Trade for Nick Foles or Mike Glennon - either one is our franchise QB for at least the next 6-8 years. Give the Eagles our 2nd or the Bucs our 3rd or 4th. If we can't trade for either one sign Ryan Mallett.

2. Sign Demaryius Thomas, Jeremy Maclin, or Randall Cobb. I know it will cost big money but we have a lot and we need to spend it. If they miss on those 3, Look for Michael Crabtree, Torrey Smith, or Cecil Shorts.

3. Sign Pernell McPhee LB

4. Sign Mike Iupati RG and Brian Bulaga RT, Bulaga plays RT til we need to move Thomas to RT then he shifts over to LT.

5. Draft Danny Shelton at #12 and Maxx Williams at #19, assuming we don't resign Cameron.

6. Resign Skrine, Gipson, Bademosi, Robertson, Moore, Austin (vet min), Bring back Leonard to be our DB coach.

There you have it, playoffs the next 5 years.

I agree with everything you said. Hoorah. Hoorah.

1) Find a way to keep the talent that they actually have healthy for the entire season (especially the OL and DL).

2) Re-sign Hoyer

There isn't anybody in that draft or in free agency that is going to significantlly upgrade the current situation. When they can run the ball, and Hoyer has time to throw, he can be effective.

I don't know what the long term deal with Manziel is going to be. IMO, even if he finds a way to get his head out of his a $$, he will still lack the skill set to have long term success in the NFL. In his limited appearances he had trouble outrunning linebackers. Not good for a guy whose biggest attribute was supposed to be his speed.

3) Draft an offensive playmaker and a defensive linemen that can stop the run with those first round picks.

4) Add some O line depth and a TE with some of the remaining picks (doesn't make sense to overpay a guy who is literally one hit away from spending his weekends on the golf course).

5) You are going to have to overspend for any free agents that you bring in. Just make sure that you are overspending on people that immediately upgrade the talent level and don't add to any off-the-field bulls#@t.

1. Cheerleaders
2. New uniforms
3. Find a Quarterback
4. Find a Quarterback
5. Find a Quarterback

There may not be any upgrades, but there are plenty of guys who can play below average like Hoyer.

In the Atlanta game we ran the ball 29 times for 162 yards (that's 5.5 yards per carry). I would say that is running the ball. In that game Hoyer was 23 of 40 with three INTs and no TDs. That is no effective.

But wait! There's more!

In the Indianapolis game we ran the ball 32 times for 115 yards (that's 3.6 yards per carry). The per carry number is not good, but we also got four turnovers from the Colts. In that game Hoyer was 13 for 30 with two INTs and no TDs.

Many people argue that Hoyer can be a game manager with a good run game and good defense. He has done that in the past (the first Bengals game in 2014 comes to mind), but he also screwed us royally in several other games where we had a chance.

There are, for sure, other options available in free agency that are more physically talented than Hoyer, will not make the same dumb decisions, and will command less money.

Which free agent QB would do better than Hoyer for a cheaper price? Sanchize? Another Tom Brady understudy in Mallett? I for one am not sure what the price for any of these QBs would be. I can only speculate but I do not think they will be considerably cheaper or do considerable better. However, I am very willing to hear your thoughts.

The Cleveland Browns were 7-6 under Hoyer's leadership. Does anyone think they would have been better under any of the current QB free agents? I am not a huge Hoyer fan, but I like the fact that the Browns games were at least competitive most of the time last season. I have my thoughts on the QB position and they do not all revolve around Brian Hoyer. I believe bringing him back is a positive for the team.

Please name those options because I can't find them. Or should I say, the ones I can find don't excite me.

It seems like Hoyer wants a good payment on a multiyear deal. Guys like Sanchez, Mallett, Locker, Matt Moore, McCown, Vick, etc. are all better options than Hoyer if gets the deal he is aiming for.

7-6 under Hoyer's leadership? What does that even mean?

I agree 100%. Hoyer is good and worth a little above average if the system, group of people and etc surrounding him is playing good, which I can't say we have that and to assume we will going into this upcoming season would be silly. When that isn't happening, Brian is a below average QB and not one who i could think could lift the team when the team is down and at times, carry on their shoulders.

As much as I like Hoyer over all the FA options, I don't think it's a wise decision to open the wallets up big for him.

I think its a moot point because everything indicates the Browns not interested in resigning Hoyer... However:

What are you basing your opinion on that Hoyer wants a big pay check?? I don't see that in anything written.

Better than Hoyer? Sanchez - no thanks. Maybe he did nicely in the Eagles offense this year - but don't see him as an upgrade in any way shape or form. Mallet - possibly has upside - but huge risk. Riskier than Hoyer for sure. You want Mallet and JM - Risky and Riskier? No thanks. Locker. Heck no. Moore. No. McCown - Struggle to see how anyone could see thats an upgrade over Hoyer. And Vick .... sure, 5 years ago. 2015? Heck no!!

We've got an enormous amount of cap space - and there is virtually zero chance of using it all up. I'm happy to overpay for who we think the best option is in the short term, knowing they are unlikely to be the Franchise answer. Get us the best chance of some steady play.

I also agree with this. BH needs a strong supporting cast to be above average. Did anyone ever notice when people talk about the greatest QB's of all time Terry Bradshaw is never mentioned even though he won 4 SB's? That's because he had and needed all those great players around him. If TB was on the Browns at that time he probably wouldn't have won 1 SB. I'm not saying BH is TB but the situation is somewhat alike.

I would switch 1 and 2, but other than that .......

Earlier in the year it was reported that Hoyer wanted a contract in the range of what Andy Dalton got.

Heck, yes. I've love to see Locker behind our Oline...

Earlier in the year it was reported that Hoyer wanted a contract in the range of what Andy Dalton got.
earlier in the year hoyer refused to talk about a contract. i wonder where that report came from?

I don't think he wants a "big" paycheck. I think he wants a multiyear deal and a shot at starting. He hasn't earned either of those things.



First off, I never said any of those guys were better than Hoyer (though some are, in different ways). I said this,"Guys like Sanchez, Mallett, Locker, Matt Moore, McCown, Vick, etc. are all better options than Hoyer if gets the deal he is aiming for." We are not in the position to pay any of these guys (including Hoyer) more than a one year deal. None of them have earned that privilege.



So because there is money available that means it should be spent? That is awfully short-sighted, especially now that you can roll over extra cap room to the next year. I am all for paying money for actual improvements on the team. If the options are giving Hoyer guaranteed money over three years or giving Mark Sanchez (or someone like him) a one year deal, I take the one year deal.

And what are you overpaying for? Seven wins at best? Did you not see Hoyer's declining play, both physically and mentally, as the season went on? Overpay if it is a move to put you over the top, do not over pay to be average.



Hoyer is the best chance at steady play? You don't actually think that, do you? His last four starts went like this:

11/16/14 versus Houston - 20/50, 330 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, QB rating of 61.2.
11/23/14 at Atlanta - 23/40, 322 yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, QB rating of 52.3. (Somehow, i.e. Mike Smith, we won this game.)
11/30/14 at Buffalo - 18/30, 192 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, QB rating of 51.
12/07/14 versus Indianapolis - 13/30, 136 yards, 2 INTs, QB rating of 29.3. (This was literally one of the worst QB performances of all time)

You might say, "Hey, that's an awfully small sample size!"

And I would say, "You're right, let's look at Hoyer's overall numbers compared to the rest of the league."

Among the qualified starters (there are 33 of them) Hoyer was 32nd in completion percentage (only Drew Stanton was worse), he was 32nd in TD% or Percentage of Touchdowns Thrown when Attempting to Pass (only Blake Bortles was worse), and his QB rating of 76.5 was 31st in the league ahead of only Josh McCown and Blake Bortles).

Hoyer did do some things very well, like the throw the deep pass, but for the most part he was just bad. I like Brian Hoyer, I like his story, and I think he is a very hard working person with good character. He is a good backup QB. He is not a starter.

Unless you want to forfeit this upcoming season, Hoyer is the best bet for winning now. Sure, he faltered down the stretch; but it's a pretty sure bet that if Manziel is the starter next season, we are looking at the number 1 pick in 2016. Things are not good right now and if you want the team to buy in and rally around your QB; Hoyer has to be your guy. Otherwise, you will lose the locker room real fast. What sucks is there really isn't a better option.

Truth be told, everybody knows that Cleveland blew it with the 22nd pick in 2014. I didn't want to draft a QB and wanted to see what Hoyer could do with a full season and the administration behind him. However, if you had to pick a QB given Bridgewater, Carr, and Manziel; who in their right mind wouldn't pick Bridgewater given his build and skill set? Who here honestly thought that Manziel could start right away in the NFL with what he showed in college? Backyard football never works in the big leagues. My only hope was that Manziel would sit for the year and the hype wouldn't affect the team. Now look at this mess.

Browns, Brian Hoyer not talking as QB eyes Andy Dalton-like deal - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jaso...alton-like-deal

The Browns have yet to make a contract offer to quarterback Brian Hoyer since the spring, according to a league source, despite the 29-year-old leading Cleveland to massive upsets over the rival Steelers and Bengals and holding a 9-3 record dating back to last season.

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam was heavily involved in the selection of Johnny Manziel in the first round of the draft this spring. Now, with the team in the thick of the AFC playoff hunt, the Browns have yet to issue Hoyer a starting value deal, and while they have yet to commit to Hoyer as their quarterback of the future, his price has continued to rise.

Hoyer's contract, worth just $1 million this year, expires after the season, and he has continued to be content to play it out if need be as several teams will be in the market for a new passer in 2015. The Cleveland native would love to stay there, all things being equal, but rather than sign a deal for backup money before the season, when he was still coming back from a season-ending ACL injury, he chose to gamble on himself, and it has proven to be sage thus far.

Despite having one of the worst group of skill players in the NFL and with the running game and pass protection hurt massively by the loss of All-Pro center Alex Mack, Hoyer has continued to get results even with the Browns' defensive woes. To this point it has yet to provoke a new contract offer from management, and league sources suggested Hoyer would likely look to Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton as a comparable player in negotiations (coincidentally, Hoyer far outshined Dalton in a victory Thursday night).

Dalton's contract is essentially a series of one-year deals with significant flexibility for the team, but Dalton did land $12 million to sign and $17 million guaranteed, which is far more than what Hoyer could have secured before the season.

The Browns remain very much alive for the AFC North title and face the struggling Texans and Falcons the next two weeks. Victories in those games will only further cement Hoyer's status. It's worth noting that Texans coach Bill O'Brien had interest in acquiring Hoyer in the past -- they worked together in New England -- and the Texans could very much be in the market for a quarterback in 2015. Buccaneers general manager Jason Licht was also with Hoyer in New England, and that team has had multiple failures at the quarterback position already this season.

Signing Hoyer to legitimate starter's money would obviously put Manziel's progress on hold -- it remains very much in doubt what kind of pro quarterback Manziel will be, and sources said the coaches have been very firm supporters of Hoyer from the outset. Shelving Manziel is something Haslam would have to be comfortable with, and no decision would be made without his consent. But there could be a backlash as well for a franchise so bereft of a winning quarterback for so long to let a homegrown product leave as a free agent after a career year.

For clarity:

Date of article - November 9, 2014