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You guys recall when Phil Savage drafted Charlie Frye? I think he said to the effect that they are going to build around the QB and not through him.
Now I understood or percieved that as Phil wanting the Browns offense to be a run 1st offensive gameplan and not in the style of a wide open attack.
But now with Brady Quinn on board,does this tell me that the Browns offense will take a drastic change in philosophy?
I'm starting to think that the drafting of Brady Quinn now makes the Browns offense more uptempo and less grind it out.
I don't think Brady Quinn was drafted to direct a ultra conservative offense as under Charlie Frye.
Very simply,you could never put the offense upon the shoulders of Charlie Frye. The talents of Braylon Edwards and KW2 were held in check by Charlie's limitations as a qb.
Now with Quinn,you can really open up the offense.
Just a thought.
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How about Thomas and Steiner offering protection on the blind side and opening holes for the 1000 yd rusher? That might help a QB control the offense, maybe even open it up once in a while without fearing for his life. Personally, I think Brady will win the job sooner rather than later, but that doesn't mean that Charlie couldn't put together a decent string of games given time and a running game. Chud said that his philosophy is to be able to run when we need to and to be able to throw when we need to. That spells consistency. The QB that starts will be the one that shows the most, especially given the weapons at hand. There can be no more complaints about the O-line, there are plenty of receivers, and Lewis should be a very servicable back. So the guy that can not only run the offense but put the ball in the hands of the playmakers at a point where they can make plays will be the guy that gets the job. Whether it's an out, slant, short over the middle or deep down the sideline, the guy that delivers consistently will be the starter no matter what the system calls for. Charlie may have and edge on experience and game speed, but if Quinn is as prepared as he's supposed to be, it may not take long to catch up. We're looking for him to not only have the arm, but to be smart, read defenses make the right decisions as well as make the correct throws so it may take some time to catch up in that respect, but he is here to be the franchise QB so he won't sit long. It would be a real luxury if we could afford to sit him while Charlie had a good year or two. JMHO
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Absolutely we have a new offensive philosophy.... "Score more points" 
<><
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Good points. There most definitely has been a major shift in philosophy. It was announced with the signing of Chud that we were going to a more attacking style offense.... I just don't think any of us fully grasped what that meant. We don't just have talent on Offense now... we have MAJOR talent at all of the key positions. We're actually "legit". I expect that it will take a year of simmering before this new stew is ready to be served, but it's gonna be nice 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'll say this, if we continue to throw 40 times a game, we'll continue to lose. Troy Aikman threw approx 20-25 times per game. That's what we need.
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I think you can expect an aggressive but balanced attack like San Diego has.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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i know in ONE of the HUNDRED brady quinn posts, i put that the Browns would try and become a passing team if they drafted Quinn... and someone told commented and said that nothing would change...
im not sure if that is true or not... but im hoping we stick to the run...
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I don't believe we'll abandon the run, we just now have someone with the correct tools to allow us to open it up. Frye is/was a horrible decision maker, Anderson has a hell of an arm, but no real accuracy...why would a defense drop more players into coverage if they didn't have to worry about the ball being catchable anyways.
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You guys recall when Phil Savage drafted Charlie Frye? I think he said to the effect that they are going to build around the QB and not through him. Now since Phil took over guess what we have 1 player on offense remaining with the team and thats Ryan Tucker and his furture with the Browns is in doubt. Phil built around the QB and now added the QB. I forgot we have Heiden also  But now with Brady Quinn on board,does this tell me that the Browns offense will take a drastic change in philosophy? Our philosophy has been 3 downs and punt. A new philosophy is needed but we will be pounding the rock under Chud and a great deal more 2 TE sets. Now with Quinn,you can really open up the offense. Its not how many times you throw but being very effective when you throw it. Honestly the biggest positive with Quinn is his lack of turnovers. If he can do that the Browns O will be very successful with Lewis running the ball. I know most dont think Lewis will ever be close to what he was but there is a reason the Ravens drafted OL heavy this year spending a 1st and 3rd on a pair of guards and they also spent a 2nd on a center last year. Now that he is healthy behind what should be a pretty damn good offensive line, the Browns will look to put the ball in Lewis's hands and ask their young Qb to keep teams honest, not carry the load.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 04/30/07 10:31 PM.
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Quote:
A new philosophy is needed but we will be pounding the rock under Chud and a great deal more 2 TE sets.
I hope so. We've got 2 great TE's that could really confuse a Defense. Whose the hot route? JJ / BE / SH / K2 .......
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the philosphy of this team will be to run the ball, and it doesn't matter who's at qb, frye, quinn, it doesn't matter, when joe thomas and eric steinbach start to gel, the running game is going to carry this team and make it a hell of a lot easier for the quarterback, that's when the browns become dangerous, because of the talent they have with winslow and edwards...
now if jamal lewis gets hurt? i'm worried... because we're thin... and i don't know if wright or harrison can carry the load, hope i'm wrong...
i want a better red zone offense, more 6's and less 3's...
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Quote:
I don't think Brady Quinn was drafted to direct a ultra conservative offense as under Charlie Frye.
i wouldn't call our offense ultra conservative...it was designed around the plays we could do....
i look for our offense to mix it up but stay balanced....
offense is quite simple imo....you have running and passing....
you can run it up the middle, or outside.....we couldn't run it up the middle (whether they stacked the box or not usually) and we couldn't run it outside cause our guards couldn't get outside pulling...
we had no deep passing game because the qb didn't have time...so that left the intermediate routes (with the qb usually getting hit) and the short quick routes...usually to the outside...
thats why this offense was "ultra conservative" cause we couldn't do half the plays other good teams could do...
running is obviously the safest...passing has more risk...
our problem has been that we haven't been able to execute plays because of weaknesses in talent....crappy oline...rookie qb's (and yes i consider charlie and anderson rooks last year...)
how many quick outs did winslow run? tons....why? cause thats all he had time to....
imo a good offense adapts the the defense and gives itself the best chance at a play....this requires audibles...we couldn't do that either....that offense was crippled in so many different ways it wasn't funny....
stack the box....throw it deep....
if they drop the safetys...audible into a run, or throw it underneath....
cover 2....split it with the TE....
blitz happy? screens and draws....playaction...
friggen rinse and repeat...
on top of that we need consistency....all the players knowing the offense hands down....less penalties...good route running...good blocking...qb being smart with the ball...
you find whats working and do it until they stop ya...then you move to the weakness they just created....
there is no magic open it up offense.....if they keep the safeties deep all game the run it and throw short all day....you don't have to do any one thing.....
the best offense is one that makes the defense cover the entire field...inside outside short and deep...thats how you win, cause they will be guessing all day....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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I Decided to Post this in this Thread instead of starting a new one but....
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Quinn was saying something about how it's a NUMBERS scheme when he was doing a press conference (the one on Clevelandbrowns.com)
Is there any football geek who knows what he's talking about.
He said he was more accustomed to the Browns old offense which was more like his from ND.
Instead it's some numbers scheme, but he said it's just a terminology thing. He might just be trying to make the best of a situation, but does anyone know what that means. A numbers scheme. (the playbook was or something). He also said that some of the teams he worked out with followed a similar scheme.
I'm sorry that i can't find the exact words, but he said we used a number scheme which had different terminology this season than last season (with the new coordinator).
I'll tell you guys, i'm not sure about our O-Coordinator. He's never thoroughly explained his scheme and he never was O-Coordinator before. I hope he's good, and Romeo and Phil found that he def had the credentials but I really wish i understood more about this guy's offensive philosophy.
All that i keep hearing is that we have an "attacking offense" which uses our players to the best of their abilities or something. Isn't that what every coach is supposed to do, Call plays around the skillset of the players you have..... I just don't feel good about this guy, and i want to stick with RAC and our 3-4 Defense. But this guy could kill us.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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I see a balanced attack. Run the ball and short passes with some deep mixed in.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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It can mean a few things actually...My main guess would be that it's a system where skill positions have a specific number. When in the huddle, the QB rattles off a bunch of no.'s to give each person their assignment. The most basic way I can explain it (this is, of course, if I'm even right) is if you ever played little league football: most often the running backs have numbers (2 for the halfback, 4 for the fullback, etc etc...) and as you know the holes are numbered (even to the right, odd to the left). The coach - in the huddle...ah, those were the days, lol - would call something along the lines of maybe a "28": halfback sweep to the right side (8 hole). Obviously this would be pretty primitive compared to what a professional offense would run, but that's my guess
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Quote:
I'm sorry that i can't find the exact words, but he said we used a number scheme which had different terminology this season than last season (with the new coordinator).
i can only speculate, but i'm thinking that we are gonna runa a scheme that maximizes our chances of a successfull play by playing the odds....
in other words if a team comes out and stacks the box on defense against you to stop the run then running up the middle is gonna have a low chance of success...so we will call plays, or audible to a higher percentage play...maybe a quick pass, or a run to the outside..
same thing if a team plays the cover 2 against you.....higher percentage plays are underneath passes, and runs...
look at the year pitt won the superbowl....
everybody knows that pitt is a run first kinda team...but in many games they came out passing...why? because the other team was dead set on stopping the run
after you beat them on some passes, they are forced to drop some guys back on d alittle, and then you start running...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
Honestly the biggest positive with Quinn is his lack of turnovers.
The same could be said of Frye in college
In College
39 INT's Brady Quinn -- 1,602 Passes Attempted
32 INT's Charlie Frye -- 1,436 Passes Attempted
1 INT in every 41.1 Passes Attempted for Brady Quinn in college
1 INT in every 44.9 Passes Attempted for Charlie Frye in college
INT"s are normally more about O-Line play than QB play. When QB's don't have time they force passes which results in more INTs.
With the additions of Steinbauch and Thomas, INT's by our QB's this year should be way down.
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This year? Probably not. I don't think we'll be the "Pound the ball 35 times and throw 15" type like the Steelers were in Ben's rookie year, but I could see us run 20-25 times and throw 20-25 times.
Next year? Assuming Quinn plays this year and learns everything, absolutely. We won't look like the Colts, but we could have a balanced offense like New England or San Diego. And I don't think we'll be afraid to get caught up in shootouts.
Hopefully we FINALLY see audibles.
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i think Quinn will get more respect from other teams than Frye got... or will get..
Frye is a hard worker.. a like how he handles things... he doesnt single his teammates out..
I know Braylon is ecstatic.. lol.. he's already doing his after the draft interviews..
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Quote:
i think Quinn will get more respect from other teams than Frye got... or will get..
Frye is a hard worker.. a like how he handles things... he doesnt single his teammates out..
I know Braylon is ecstatic.. lol.. he's already doing his after the draft interviews..
If anything, Quinn will get more respect from the refs, if not other teams. I don't think they cared if #9 left in a stretcher or not last year, based on what I saw.
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hehe...thats a good point....there was a couple of times that frye got hit last year that left me scratching my head.....if that was a qb star in the league he would have got the flag....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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You may have taken a bit of a jump to reach your conclusion, Impact. When I originally read Phil's statements, I took it a slightly different way. I thought he was saying that our O would be built around balance, so the team wasn't forced to rely on a Super QB. That doesn't need to mean run-first.
Getting Quinn doesn't necessitate scrapping that plan at all. If anything, it would be smart to keep it, at least in the early term. Keeping a good balance will help whomever we have at QB. If it's Charlie, fine... this would be the first time we get to see him with a shot at some protection. He still might be better than what we've seen. If it's Quinn, he'll benefit from the balance, as well. He may be talented and the "heir apparent," but he'll still be a rookie. A balanced attack will take some of the pressure off him while he's still climbing his learning curve.
Hard to know what Chudzy will do. We can research what he was about in SD, but them ain't us- and he'll have to ride the horses he's got here in Cleve. It's possible that we could open it up, but with so many new and young players, it's smarter to instil the balanced attack until the team has a chance to gel. Later, you can loosen the strings a bit when the team has shown what it can handle
Wide-open O? Maybe down the road... but early on, I'd say we prolly stay pretty conservative.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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You need a thicker stick.
The one you keep using to stir the pot is getting really thin.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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And just like the Washington Redskins and Butch Davis drafts,you keep on "reaching"......
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is that like reaching thru the jail bars? like half your team?  or do you mean something else?
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Yes, but look at the difference in teams played. Quinn went up against several high powered D's.
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Our philosophy should change and it should be Score More Points and Win More Games. I really think Lewis will be good for us but if he goes down then I think we can still have a solid rushing attack via RB by committee. Especially since the OL is supposed to be much improved.
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Well, let's see! New OC New O Staff New QB New and Improved linemen New RB Hmm,, Yup, I'd say we are going to open it up but hopefully balanced.. I don't want to see, nor do I think it's a good idea to have a Pass Happy Offense! Butch used to say, we want to run successfully when the other teams expects us to run. I always liked that Idea.. With Lewis (if he's got enough in the tank) and that perceived improved line, we can do just that.. In and of itself, that's an improvement..
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I'll say this, if we continue to throw 40 times a game, we'll continue to lose. Troy Aikman threw approx 20-25 times per game. That's what we need.
According to here Aikman threw ~29 times a game. Not splitting hairs but there's a big difference between throwing the ball 20 times a game and 30 times a game.
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The talents of Braylon Edwards and KW2 were held in check by Charlie's limitations as a qb.
That statement will be the biggest difference in this years offense.....brought on by a improved OL.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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The OL looks in good shape right now aas it did last year at this time.
What will screw it up is what screwed our OL last year ....injuries.
If the boys can stay healthy it will not take long for them to gel as a unit.
Here's to an injury free TC and pre-season
Groza76
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I'm not a Charlie Frye fan, but some of Frye's failures had to do more with Braybaby's problems rather than Charlie's limitations, not to mention our own OL problems. With the changes in the OL, and the addition of Jamaal Lewis, I don't think there will be a change in philosophy, just more strength to make the philosophy work. That being said...If the current philosophy doesn't work, Quinn does give more options for the offense to fall back on than Charlie Frye does.... The additional options could also apply to Anderson. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Frye traded and Anderson staying on as the backup to Quinn.... 
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Quote:
I'll say this, if we continue to throw 40 times a game, we'll continue to lose. Troy Aikman threw approx 20-25 times per game. That's what we need.
This year? I agree with that.
Next year? I hope we throw 40 times a game, even with a lead. All the while running the ball 25 times a game.
Also I hope next year we start going no huddle and checking plays at the line. I don't expect that from a rookie this year, no matter how advanced he is mentally.
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Quote:
Also I hope next year we start going no huddle and checking plays at the line. I don't expect that from a rookie this year, no matter how advanced he is mentally.
What?  Quinn didn't even do that at Notre Dame. What makes you think he's going to be doing that here? Don't get me wrong Quinn is a good QB but c'mon let's not annoint this guy to Peyton Manning yet for crying out loud. He's going to struggle enough as it is.
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Quote:
Quote:
Also I hope next year we start going no huddle and checking plays at the line. I don't expect that from a rookie this year, no matter how advanced he is mentally.
What? Quinn didn't even do that at Notre Dame. What makes you think he's going to be doing that here? Don't get me wrong Quinn is a good QB but c'mon let's not annoint this guy to Peyton Manning yet for crying out loud. He's going to struggle enough as it is.
Cuz we need to keep up with the Palmers, Mannings and Brady's of the league. They spread it out and go no huddle and check at the line all the time.
Palmer did it his second year as a starter.
Let's turn this thing into a track meet and pound it at the same time. I wanna see some fun offense. Some people have fond memories of the single-wing offense, I have fond memories of 3 WR sets (with Winslow, making 4 targets) with one back in the backfield.
If there's any QB mentally capable to do it, it's Quinn.
I'm NOT saying do it this year, now THAT would be crazy talk.
Last edited by Ammo; 05/04/07 05:13 PM.
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I don't know how Quinn is any more equipped to do that than any other rookie QB in the NFL. Quinn is a smart kid and has experience running a pro-style offense. He doesn't have any more experience reading defenses or recognizing NFL defensive schemes than any other rookie though. Let's face it, the hidden schemes are WAY more intensive at the NFL level than anything he's ever seen while at Notre Dame.
Being able to run a 4 WR, no huddle offense with multiple audibles at the line would require a level of mastery of BOTH the offense and being able to read the defense that is WAY over Quinn's head IMO.
Maybe....MAYBE by the end of his 2nd or 3rd year, maybe.
Again, let's let him play a season, or even a game at the NFL level before we start making comparisons and saying how he needs to be "the next" or "on level with" the Mannings, Palmers and Bradys of the world. Right now he's a polished player with lots of potential. That's all. And to be honest, I'd be happy if Quinn was "the next" Jake Delhomme or Marc Bulger. For the Browns to be a playoff team he doesn't HAVE to be Peyton Manning.
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Ammo, you need a big old reality check. Brady Quinn has done nothing at the NFL level, yet you've already put him in the HOF. It's a safe bet that you'll be calling for his head in 2009 because he isn't living up to your absurdly high expectations.
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Quote:
I don't know how Quinn is any more equipped to do that than any other rookie QB in the NFL. Quinn is a smart kid and has experience running a pro-style offense. He doesn't have any more experience reading defenses or recognizing NFL defensive schemes than any other rookie though. Let's face it, the hidden schemes are WAY more intensive at the NFL level than anything he's ever seen while at Notre Dame.
Being able to run a 4 WR, no huddle offense with multiple audibles at the line would require a level of mastery of BOTH the offense and being able to read the defense that is WAY over Quinn's head IMO.
Maybe....MAYBE by the end of his 2nd or 3rd year, maybe.
Again, let's let him play a season, or even a game at the NFL level before we start making comparisons and saying how he needs to be "the next" or "on level with" the Mannings, Palmers and Bradys of the world. Right now he's a polished player with lots of potential. That's all. And to be honest, I'd be happy if Quinn was "the next" Jake Delhomme or Marc Bulger. For the Browns to be a playoff team he doesn't HAVE to be Peyton Manning.
I said in his 2nd year, not his rookie year. I fully expect us to be more traditional this season.
Even a Jake Delhomme or Marc Bulger would be able to run that kind of offense (greatest show on turf ring a bell?)
I'd be doing summersaults if Quinn turned out like Bulger. Bulger's highly underrated. Hell, even a Hasselbeck. He doesn't have to be a legend, just a guy who can pick it up and carry the team if he needs to. (NOT THIS YEAR, eventually)
And no, Mensa, I don't have absurdly high expectations. Read what I hope for.
This year: over 3000 (even if it's 3001) yards, 1:1 TD/INT ratio.
Given what we've done to change our offensive line and runningback, I don't think that's too tough. it's not even 200 yards a game. This isn't expecting the world out of a guy who's coming into what is now a great situation for a rookie QB to come into. If the line and running game pan out like I hope, it could turn out like Cutler with the Broncos last year.
That doesn't even bring in the fact that he's the most NFL-ready prospect in years.
Please stop saying I want us to spread it out and throw 40 times a game this year, no huddle all the time with checks for every play, that's simply not true. Next year? we'll talk about it after this season, but I think we'll be able to.
What makes Quinn more prepared? Charlie Weis.
Last edited by Ammo; 05/04/07 06:54 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 373
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 373 |
Quote:
That doesn't even bring in the fact that he's the most NFL-ready prospect in years.
And other so-called experts do not think he's NFL-ready yet.
3000 yards and a 1:1 TD/INT ratio might even be too high of expectations. We'll have to find out how well our revamped O-Line looks first, and if Lewis still has anything left in the tank second.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Quote:
That doesn't even bring in the fact that he's the most NFL-ready prospect in years.
And other so-called experts do not think he's NFL-ready yet.
3000 yards and a 1:1 TD/INT ratio might even be too high of expectations. We'll have to find out how well our revamped O-Line looks first, and if Lewis still has anything left in the tank second.
Which ones? Most have said he'll start sooner rather than later. In fact, Sean Salisbury (who's been right on us 100% of the time and quite frankly we owe him an apology for blasting us because he was right) says start him day one.
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