DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns sticking with plan By Pluto

We have Johnny Manziel and Connor Shaw on staff.

A sniper would have to start picking off like 10 QB's a day from now until free agency for there not to be any better options than what we have on staff.

I don't get your post.

It seems you are speaking as to how you would judge him rather than how the FO and ownership looks at Johnny.

I wouldn't give up on Manziel yet. He has all kinds of potential, just needs to grow up.

You mean there is a plan? Surely you jest.

Honestly...

I used to be able to convince or delude myself that this was a professional organization, and of course there's a whole intricate building plan that they're going to lay out, we can't see it yet, etc.

I really can't anymore.

Every regime that's come through has seemed like electronic football players on the fritz. No one on the same page, draft picks that don't fit perceived or stated philosophy, power grabs, infighting, looking foolish in public, etc.

I feel it's just gotten worse under Haslam, and that disheartens me, because it's not like you can fire him.

I like Ray Farmer less and less every time he talks.

Pettine is the only guy in this organization that I like right now. I've been calling him Michael Bluth for months now, because in my head I imagine he spends a lot of time gritting his teeth or marveling at the baffling absence of logic.

But from the FO side, I fear there is no plan. There's just texts from QB coaches.

I like Pettine too, but as you say, too many factors WITHIN the organization are against him.

Two teams. Two teams have never been to a Super Bowl, let alone be able to lose one.

1. Cleveland
2. Detroit

The Factory of Sadness Continues AND if any play had Browns written all over it,it was the second and goal call by the Seahawks.

That's exactly what I said to a friend at work. What Seattle did on that last play the Browns do all the time. Just about every game and at any time durning the game!!!

Fixed .... not that it makes things much, if any better .....

"I like Ray Farmer less and less every time he talks."
=======================================================

Everybody makes mistakes. Certainly the draft proves how inexact the process is.

Smart people recognize their mistakes and learn from them. That is what experience is; learning from mistakes.

What is disturbing about Farmer is his arrogance.

It is like if he makes a mistake it is all part of his master plan. We don't need a an elite quarterback. We don't need no stinkin receivers.

I have the true blueprint on how to build and NFL franchise. I will disregard what other think and say. Clearly Farmer has a disconnect problem.

I like Pettine. But man o man he is tough spot.

The thing that gets me most is when - and he's done this three times - he almost half-justifies things by saying that's how he did them in KC and Atlanta, as if those stops were bastions of success.

Frankly, I'm tired of listening to GM's try to give the impression they know what the hell they're doing.

And, yeah, I think Pettine is in close to a no win situation. Work cut out for him

If that's how he really feels then yes I am concerned. I am holding out the belief that he says things to throw other teams off. He says we don't feel the need to draft a wr high because we don't want someone else feeliing like they they need to trade up in front of us to snatch that last top tier wr before our pick.

At least that is what I hope it's all about

Except he said the same thing last year.

LOL Y....I forgot about those teams....Thanks for the fix...

This thread seems kind of ridiculous considering the latest news.

j/c:

Sig Stats: Tackling Efficiency, LBs



This was for ILBs. Outside LBs in a 4-3 are in a different category in the link.

What the rating doesn't show is where these tackles are made, whether 3-5 yds past the LOS or Andra Davis-like and 7-10 yds downfield. However, I don't remember too much of the latter. I thought Kirksey was a pretty sure tackler, and PFF supports that, at least for now.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/02/10/sig-stats-tackling-efficiency-lbs/

I don't think Kirksey gets the amount of recognition he deserves. I'm not saying he had a Pro Bowl year, but he played very well. Good in the open field, his college cover skills seemed to carry over and, IMO, will only get better and he has good speed to cover a large chunk of field or to go sideline to sideline.

I'm anxious to see him to continue to improve!

Edit *

I'm sure it doesn't hurt having someone like Karlos Dansby there giving tidbits to improve his game! Same goes for Craig and likely all the linebackers both inside and outside spots.

Huh. This looks a lot like a stat insisting on itself. Doesn't really say anything about how good they are at getting in position to make the tackle. They have James Lauranitis as a terrible linebacker with the best tackling efficiency of all 4-3 linebackers, then say Anthony Barr had a good rookie season but was the worst tackler in the NFL for all linebackers.

I feel like this site has felt pressured to do more with their information and it's leading to silly rankings and misleading information. Some things just don't work when you try to put a number on them. More to the point I guess they are coming up with numbers and making statements/assumptions about what those numbers mean, which isn't necessarily true. JMO.

Which I addressed when I posted the link. Another factor could be if the rating of Kirksey would be maintained as his snap count went up. There are other people on that list with much more snaps.

However, if you believe in the method PFF offers, I think the most telling stat is how they give Kirksey only 4 missed tackles. Now, if you recall watching Kirksey last year, did you seem him mostly chasing down players to get the tackles down field or putting himself in position to make a stop. IMO, it's the latter.

yeah maybe... or you can see that he has less than one tackle per ten snaps on the worst-rated run defense in the NFL and that maybe he's not an impact player from a tackling standpoint.

That's a fair point. Still, most guys fall into similar ranges (8-13) and he's still in the top half of that assessment (if I did the math right, which I can't promise).

But I see your point there we could look at those numbers several ways, and I'm sure this site has.

Wouldn't surprise me if you're right about that. I think they will put Johnny out there no matter what. Just to save face. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. He won't survive more than a game or two. He didn't last season. Couldn't survive two entire games..... What a surprise. Sure didn't see THAT coming did we? Smallest QB in the league. Likes to run at the first sign of trouble.... Of COURSE he's going to get destroyed. Linebackers salivate at tiny little QB's running around. So when they put Johnny under center this season, he won't be there for long. Especially since he won't have a #1 WR to open things up. And therefore no running game to take some pressure off him. Johnny Broken. Yep....

I hope so also. Manzeil doesn't exactly inspire confidence...

So yeah, a back up plan is a MUST

It goes without saying that there are alternatives in place. At this point, I don't believe that Manziel is Plan 'A'. more likely Plan 'B'. (Plan 'C' could be either Connor Shaw or a draftee). If so, who is Plan 'A'? I leave it to your fertile imaginations...

I can't give Shanny a pass either. He's the OC.. He didn't have (for whatever reason) JM ready to play. He didn't succeed. But to be fair, I'm not 100% sure anyone could have succeeded at getting JM ready. He had to want it badly and his actions indicate that maybe that wasn't the case.

Factoring his many off field issues, his lack of performance during his play and all else negativity surrounding JF - if they don't have a Backup plan in the making/already made, everyone needs fired.

I mean holy crap, Flip admitted he didn't even look at Manziel's tape before accepting the position. Backup plan is something I'd deem as a "must have".

Does he really have to fall to be considered short?

My mindset has nothing to do with his on field performance, the off field issues and alcohol make him a risk right now. I hope for the best, but have to be wise enough to realize that he may not mature and get his issues resolved.

I think Manziel only went to rehab as a desperate move to buy time for hsi failing career. i'd even bet his agent put him up to it.

Now if he does something useful there I don't know. It could happen and for his sake I hope he turns things around. I haven't seen too many drunk turn things around though until they hit rock bottom and I don't think Johnny is anywhere near rock bottom yet.

Still I hope for the best because what other choice do I have ^^

I just don't understand how it can be SOO hard to run a football team. Imean hire coaches that know what they are doing, find players that match what they are looking for that don't have any major issues like drugs, or such, and then make sure you keep things under the salary cap.

I guarantee I could do better than the job that has been thus far.

Buying time by displaying fake determination. Just listen to Haslem. Since Johnny checked himself into rehab instead of being told to do it it gives the team a higher opinion of him. It was clearly a calculated move to garner sympathy and support instead of being viewed as a lost cause.

The Browns have obviously and rightly so lost faith in Johnny's ability to lead this football team.

As a side note, where did you hear his rehab would end in a more week? Everything I have read says there is no way to know how long he may be in rehab. I mean if he is getting out THAT early then he definitely was not sincere going into it. Real rehab takes much more time.

If he gets out in a week, then his going in was probably worthless. If he has a substance abuse problem, then he needs to be in for probably 2 months. (or more)

30 days is the usual standard time for detox centers. But, like you, I am pessimistic about JFF.

Window dressing and a PR spectacle? Seems way too short in rehab or treatment.