DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Haslam's Next Move of Deceit

Perhaps to you. I'm simply trying to aid a fellow poster so threads like this don't pop up again.

I chose all the emoticons I thought were indicative of this thread title.

Vers, The population of Columbus is over 800,000 while the population of Cleveland is sadly now less then 400,000 so even if only half the people in Columbus are Browns fans Haslam and the Browns would be reaching more fans there then in Cleveland if Cleveland was 100% Browns fans. Their are Browns fans outside of Cleveland, heck I live 45 minutes north of Dayton and between the Browns and Bengals its probably a 50/50 split here.

The 800,000/400,000 is a very misleading number, given that the city limits of Columbus encompass a larger land area the Cleveland. It would be akin to Cleveland assuming Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, East Cleveland (which will happen soon enough), Euclid, Lakewood, Brooklyn, Parma, etc. and add it's numbers. Cleveland proper is 77 sq. miles; Columbus proper is 220 sq. miles. I believe Columbus is the third largest metropolitan area behind Cleveland and Cincinnati. Still, it's land that is divided amongst Bengals and Browns fans. I welcome a move that tries to shift the balance more in our favor.

The beauty of this is that we are entitled to our opinions on this matter. I disagree w/you guys. I think that the Brown's TC has been in the Cleveland area for a long time and the fans have been very loyal despite a poor product.

What do they get in return? Raise season ticket prices, watch a team demonstrate a plethora of dysfunctional moves, and talk of taking TC to another location.

You guys can rip me all you want. I don't care. I don't like you, thus your insults mean nothing to me. No problems w/Ballpeen's and 66's arguments. We disagree, but they argued w/logic...........rather than the way guys like Memphis argue.

But this is at the way I 'argue' only with you. I feel like I need to downgrade my approach to meet you on a fair playing field.

You're on a roll.

I know. Thank you.

To be fair, I started that one.

On the subject at hand, I can see where the Cleveland area fans wouldn't be thrilled with this, however, I can also see the reasoning behind the idea. We used to drive up from Dayton for a day at training camp. Right now I wouldn't even drive to Columbus to see them.

Apathy is a bitch.

I like the move Vers.. And here's my reasoning...I live in Canton which you know, and I drive to Cleveland very often..

I go to 8 home games, which puts me in Cleveland..I don't get to Training Camp...And honestly half the reason is because it's just another trip up to Cleveland...

Now having a reason to drive south to C'bus is a bit mpre exciting.. The reason for that is, because it's a different scenery... I can do other things down there and experience different attractions.

The biggest reason for me to be excited would be the fact that I can see friends down there that I only see at games in Cleveland...

The thought of hooking up with Columbus Dawg..Saint.. CapitalGC.. maybe Michelle and Jules and a few others that tailgate and go to the games that aren't on the board... For a day or two sounds fun as hell..

So for me it would mean being in their neck of the woods..and I would fully expect them to show me a great time

I'm okay with this move...

I live in Powell, which is only 20 minutes north in good traffic. It would be cool to put faces to user names as it were. It would also do my heart good to see the Browns beat out the Bengals (and sometimes even the Steelers) for tv time down here regardless of record. Nothing hacks me off more (from a football standpoint) than to see another team on a local tv station.

One thing to remember, Columbus is the 15th largest city / metropolitan area in the US! Thats right, we are bigger than Miami, Seattle, Ft Worth, Denver, Wash DC, Boston, Portland, Milwaukee, Atlanta and Cleveland.

I think Haslam is a garbage person, but he is making a good decision to pursue the Columbus market. I would.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

I understand your line of thinking. I wasn't looking at it through my eyes, though. Heck, I live in SC.

I was looking at it through the eyes of all those in the Cleveland area and have so supportive of the team despite the team's losing ways. It just seems like another slap in the face of those good people.

Someone mentioned the Cowboys and California. I don't care about the Cowboys. I don't want to be like the Cowboys. I get the marketing angle. The proposed move makes sense from that angle, but again, I believe in loyalty more.

And if loyalty means less than greed, well then, Mr. Haslam should have no problem w/Brown's fans no longer buying Brown's gear and going to Brown's games and instead broaden their own horizons.

It would make more sense for people who pay for Brown's games and merchandise to spend their money on another team. It's a short drive to Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Buffalo. Other teams like the Bears, Bengals, and Colts are not that far away.

If it is NOT about loyalty and it is about greed, why should the fans of NE Ohio continue to support Haslam w/their hard-earned dollars?

Before my grandfather passed away, I would sometimes fly to Cleveland for a week in the summer and go to training camp every day. Every day. When they practiced twice a day I would go twice a day. To me, training camp is better than the actual games. To be that up close to the players, coaches, and action is such an underrated experience I'm surprised more people don't talk about how awesome it is. Going to training camp as a child is what made me a Browns fan. Being that up close to the players and getting Bernie to sign his rookie card for me were highlights of my young life at that point.

I like the fact that the Browns have training camp locally. If that makes them unique, all the better. I think there will be a lot of upset fans if this happens. The Browns cannot afford to continue to drive a wedge in between themselves and the fans that continue to support them. This would be a step in that direction, IMO.

This smells of Alec Scheiner. He sounds like all brains, no heart. Pure business guy.

minus one for the high tomorrow... you miss that ?

I see your point about the loyalty part... First the pretty big jump in ticket prices then the thought of moving Training Camp..

I also tend to look at it as a whole new Ownership we have..We were comfortable with hardly any change for the last 16 years..

Pretty much the same routine we were used to with having Lerners ways of doing things...

Now we have a guy whose changing things up... Adding a new look with the Stadium and Uni's... Doing busness his way... Most likely the way he knows best...

Whether we agree on his business Ideas or not... I believe a big part of it for people is the change...And once again it's all in whether your in agreement or not..

As far as the loyalty to the local Cleveland fans... I feel he may be trying to show loyalty to the whole fan base..Having the chance to get to so many games... I have met and seen many many fans in that stadium.. that are not from Cleveland..

As we know Vers... Cleveland has one of the largest fan followings in the country.. and out of..

I don't see the change as a slap in the face of any fan.. although I understand how some may feel that way... The Browns family is one big family...And I know I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make us all happy.

The one and only issue I want to see change is the teams ability to win and win many play-off games... That I believe will be a good start to making our family a happy one.

If they do this they should at least let season ticket holders off the hook for those stupid pre-season games (especially the 4th one) at full price. Play them at the Horseshoe, and we'll see how much Columbus really supports the Browns.

Piggy-backing my first post, my biggest concern would be that Haslam is seeking to regionalize the Browns, a la the Tennessee Titans. I could envision a name change to the Ohio Browns with 4 games in Cleveland, and 4 in C-bus. Cynical? Paranoid? Maybe, but I saw the unthinkable happen in 1995, when one of the NFL's most storied franchises was ripped away from the city that supported it like no other in the league. I do not trust the NFL at all.

Or at least the owners. And how do you think the fans in St. Louis feel knowing that it is quite transparent that they will soon lose their team to LA?

Kind of like how L.A. lost their team to St. Louis (for no apparent reason).

Always the instigator.

I understand what your saying Vers and I would agree with you if Haslam was thinking about moving TC to say West Virginia but Columbus is one of the largest markets and there are a lot of Browns fans there.

I hate to quibble, but Wiki and the U.S. Office of Management and Budget disagree ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_statistical_areas

Greater Cleveland metropolitan area - 2.08M
Greater Columbus metropolitan area - 1.84M
Greater Cincinnati metropolitan area - 1.62M

The disparity gets larger when you add Akron-Canton to the Cleveland metro area (a regional stat the U.S. OMB calls Combined Statistical Area or CSA) ...

Cleveland/Akron/Canton - 3.5M
Columbus/Marion/Chilicothe - 2.3M
Cinci/Wilmington/Maysville (KY) - 2.2M

Lets amend that to:

Columbus is 15th city in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

Columbus is 15th

http://www.city-data.com/top1.html

Columbus is 15th

http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uscities_100.html

Columbus is 15th

http://geography.about.com/od/lists/a/20citiesus.htm

Columbus is 15th

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0763098.html

Ok you win. I don't give a sheep.

Me neither.

Criminal Haslam can think of changing where this team holds it's TC or anything else for that matter. What won't ever change? This absolute garbage product. It all adds up to more losing! They are losers!

It's an hour and a half for me to TC now. In Cbus it will be about 2. That extra 30 minutes won't phase me. As I'm sure it won't bother many others. This thread is really about a non-issue.

There were some good replies since I was last on. Many of us disagreed on the topic, but the conversation was respectful. That was nice. A few additional points:

--Dave, I never even thought of the Ohio Browns angle. I love the Buckeyes, but I hope the team is always in Cleveland and not in both Cleveland and Columbus. Again, I don't live in NE Ohio anymore, even though I still own a house there. As the years pass, I make it up there fewer and fewer times.

--Dies: It was in the upper 50s, maybe 60 today. I was trimming trees and bushes. Talked to my brother and he said it was bitterly cold and he just finished shoveling snow.

--I fully understand why dawgs like Saint, Cap, Columbus D, etc would be excited about the prospect of the Browns holding TC in Columbus.

--I also fully understand the money angle that Haslam and Sheiner are seeing. BTW---whoever brought up Scheiner.....well done.

--But, I hope the Browns realize that if they don't want to be loyal to their very loyal fans in NE Ohio, then those very same fans can also look for something better. I don't know if I could personally go root for another team, but I do know that I could quit rooting for the Browns. I quit watching baseball a long time ago when they had all the labor disputes. I got news for you Jimmy......you wanna make this all about profit and greed? Go ahead. Ignore the loyalty of fans like me and we'll show you just what an ass you truly are. I might not reside in NE any longer, but I still bleed w/those fine folks---who are the best people I have ever met......anywhere.

We are a loyal bunch. We have stood by the Browns when perhaps no other fan base would do the same. We have witnessed one fiasco after another. Yeah, we might complain a bit, but we are always there. Do you wanna mess w/loyalty, sir?

I understand that you are in this to make money, but you may want to rethink things. Perhaps abandoning the most loyal people in professional sports is not exactly the best business idea.

That is actually my nickname.

Honestly Vers, I see both sides of this. It would be great for other Ohio Browns fans, and there are lots of us. But, I do think it sucks for the Cleveland area fans. They are the biggest monetary supporter of the Browns. I know a number of Browns fans that go to camp quite a bit. It's doubtful they would be able to go more than once if they move it to Columbus.

Yes Jules, there are two sides to the story. And I think you are one of the few people who know me well enough to understand that I like presenting the other side of the story.

I live in cleveland, So i get to drive a couple hours down to columbus, chill at some college bars after watching TC in most likely really nice weather?

sign me up.

What about people who have to work for a living?

I'm not sure if that was a shot or something.

Not a shot, but if a guy is working, he can't very well just make a two and half drive to Columbus during the day to watch TC.

Look man, I don't care if people disagree w/me. No problem. But y'all might want to stop the absurdity of how whacked I am.

Just saying..........

I didn't say anything about your absurdity.

anyway, I'm struggling to figure out something. a lot of these guys in cleveland make a 20-30 minute trip to Berea to watch TC....all day long.

so if they are there all day long.....that means they took the day off.

so......i'm sure driving down to Columbus wouldn't be that much of a big deal.

There are typically two sessions per day. If you work afternoons in the mill, you can attend the morning practice. If you work the early shift, you can attend the afternoon session.

Additionally, local establishments profit from the business generated by the people attending the camp. I know I always stopped at a local pub to get a bite to eat and have a few beers.

It's called loyalty. How do you NOT understand that?