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I can love my child without accepting bad or sinful behavior.

I can love my child without accepting bad or sinful behavior. Sex is a behavior and action you choose to do or not. It's not who you are.

Liking a gender isn't a choice. Like, honestly, do you think anyone would prefer a male over a female if they had the choice?

It is better to do without sex then burn in the lake of fire. I get that some people are ruled by their lust and don't care about their soul. Its the sinful perversity that attacks them as much as anything else. No different that the person who steals for the rush of it. Sin is sin. It doesn't stop being sin just because it's inconvenient or hard to deal with. We all have our temptations and we all sin but to choose a life where you purposely sin and with no remorse is to damn yourself to a fate far worse than living without sex.

Shouldn't be that way. It was hell for my son to tell us he was gay. What he didn't know is I had suspected it for years.

I can't judge - that's above my pay grade. My son is welcome in my home, I am welcome in his home. My son is - just that - my son. Was, is, and will be.

He's lucky to have a Dad who loves him as you do.

Go ahead and choose to be attracted to men. Tell me how simple it is for you to choose who you are attracted to.

Well, I'm not going to go there. Personally, I don't think it's any of my business what other folks do and I'll leave the judging up to God.

I'm only looking at this from a societal standpoint and not injecting religion into it at all. Look at the motivations of those that promote it are and why and you'll have the answers. Leave the religious aspects out. Just focus on the issue and why the people behind it are pushing it. It's that simple. Push aside the fluff (arguments like 'religious opposition', 'civil right', 'fairness', 'equality', etc.) because they're false arguments designed to distract. Too many get caught up in the fluff and that's the only reason it has gotten even this far.

Love is unconditional.

I Love us sinners but hate the sin itself.

Will be forever! You are a blessed man. He is a blessed - and loved - son.

That's some ole hatred ass stuff right there.

That doesn't sound like christian values at all.

Your boy JESUS says he loves everybody no matter what.

Sorry but it looks like you'll be the one burning.

Calm yourself there boy.

All the Christians on this thread have said pretty much the same thing, God and my boy Jesus love the sinners but hate the sin.

Nobody is hating on people here.

Nobody is hatin people?

You clearly didn't read razors post.

I have studied them all. He hates sin. He tells it like he sees it and doesn't hold back. You see it as hate for people. Read him again.

I see it as him looking his child in the basement, or straight up disowning them if they ever came out gay.

Not a chance, but he would argue that their decision is a sinful one until he was blue in the face.

You can just feel the contempt and anger when dealing with some Christians. They try to disguise it by saying horrible things about people and then claiming to love them. They have done the very things that they accuse the people they contend are going to burn in Hell. Meaning they twist the words and message to fit their own desires. Thankfully, they are nothing like Jesus. They have taken the word of God and bastardized it to fuel their own hatred. They are the ones who are going to have a lot of explaining to do some day. Good luck to them.

Sin is sin. No twist of the imagination can make it less. You can not justify a sin in God's eyes.

Every Christian faces his own choices everyday and sometimes chooses to sin. We are all people with the same thoughts and emotions. If I choose to live in sin and another Christian points out the fact that it is sin, it ticks me off because I have gone through a lot of twisting to finally justify it to myself. I find them to be condescending and contemptuous especially when I know deep in my heart that they are right.

It is best to face reality than to fool oneself. In God's eyes it is either sin or it is not.

I am sorry you won't talk to me because I find you interesting and recognize you have dealt with much pain in your life. I'm not an idiot all the time.

And that's a big reason it's hard for me to be religious.

My family, Muslims and Christians, we got some hardcores in my family. And they talk just like some of these posters do to others: like anybody who isn't religious is beneath them.

Religious folks in general are fine. But look at some of these posters. They are borderline extremist. Yet they got the nerve to judge other religions or non religious people like second class citizens, then get mad when we try to distance ourselves away from them.

They don't make religion very inviting is what I'm saying.

I mean look at razor. Look his his post. Anybody ever watched that movie Carrie? Tell me he doesn't remind you of the male version of the mother.

That's creepy.

I found her daughters evil superpowers and slaughtering of the people around her to be most frightening.

I think it is all a matter of perception.

Why couldn't her powers be god given?

I have a strong and personal relationship with God. I would never allow vitriolic and hypocritcal people to rob me of that relationship. I have felt God's presence through most of my life. It's a wonderful thing. Nothing a judgemental human could ever say would cause me to turn away from what I know to be true and right. We all have our own journey.

I've had a good life. I came from a great family. My parents have been married forever, my brother has a nice family, and I have been with my partner for 15 years. I make a good living, travel all over the country and enjoy the beauty I see everywhere, and I thank God for it every day.

It's all about finding your own way. Don't let nasty people who hide behind their religion to make you feel inferior influence your spiritual curiosity. You may or may not find something. I think that depends on you!

That was a nice read.

As Browns fans many of us have come to realize
that God answers all Prays. Just sometimes the
answer is NO!

Swish, where did I EVER say to forsake your children? Never. If my daughter told me she was a lesbian I would still love her no matter what.

Would I accept her behavior and allow it in my house? NO. Would I tell her that her sinful actions are OK? NO.

Just because a child does something sinful is no excuse to abandon them. If anything that is even more reason to try and reach them to make them stop. Will I stop loving my child if they lie or steal? NO.

Sin is Sin and in God's eyes they are all the same. You must love your children no matter what they do and try to lead them to live a life without sin. That is my responsibility as their father. It is not my place to judge them but it is my job to show them the right way to lead their life and give them guidance. Even when it hurts and I have to suffer to do it. When I have had to spank my children to make them behave and do right I think I might have cried more than they did because it broke my heart to punish them. A father does what he has to do to raise his children the right way and its not easy all the time.

It is NOT my job to make things easy on myself by saying sure go ahead and do whatever you want because I am too lazy and don't care enough to save you from living a life full of sin.

I could never hate or abandon my children whatever sin they commit just like god will never abandon me. I will punish them though just as God would punish me as my heavenly father. My job as their father is to make sure when they stand before God they will be in heaven with me not to worry about the convenience of this very short life we live.

You JUST said you wouldn't allow it in your house.

That says to me, if she came at you at 15-16 years old and says she's attracted to women, you'd boot her ass out.

Part of love is acceptance. Just a note of caution, I had a friend whose son was gay. Daddy couldn't handle it. Son left this Earth because of the disappointment he felt he had brought to his family just by being who he was.

Nothing could be more heart breaking than knowing the people who love you most can not accept who you are. Whether it be through words, actions or otherwise, children do know when they are not accepted. It hurts!

In case anyone forgot, we are all sinners. I will be looking into the eyes of my Lord and Savior when I see sin free.

That's an understatement. As Browns fans, the answer is perpetually NO!!!!

J/C ... there is a massive difference between informing, and judging.

Some people seem to think that pointing out what the Bible says is sin is somehow hateful. It is not.

In order to be saved, as I understand the Bible. we have to accept Jesus as our personal Savior, repent (turn away from) our sins, and follow Him.

The Bible says certain things about certain kinds of behavior. It also says that if we cannot control certain impulses, then we should stay away from them entirely. For example, I have never really seen myself as the marrying kind. That's OK. I don't have to be the marrying kind. However, I substituted sex for marriage, instead of a part of marriage. That is a sin. In fact, worse than that, it is a pattern of sin. It is something that I felt was "OK for me", because I never really intended to get married. I made all of the excuses.

Was I saved? I don't know that I was. Why? Because sex/sin was more important to me than Jesus Christ. I heard something yesterday, and that is this: I practiced sin, so I could get better at it, instead of practicing avoiding sin.

That meant that I was never truly saved. Sin meant more to me than Jesus Christ did. I could never be saved if that was true.

I do feel that I am saved now. I have allowed the Lord to do what is necessary so that I can to avoid the patterns of sin that ruled my life. Have I succeeded in every case where I depend upon myself? Absolutely not. However, I try as hard as I can to try to avoid sin wherever I find it in my life, and I trust the Lord to help he with all of them.

2 John 2: 57 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

What does this mean? Basically that if we have Jesus in our hearts, then we will walk the walk, and do as He commands. We will not make a habit of sin, because if we do, then we are still walking in darkness.

Some people think that if they have some perfunctory acceptance of Christ as their Lord, but do not do as He said, then they are somehow following a Christian life. Are they really though?

In Matthew 23: 21-23, Jesus says:
True and False Disciples
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

What does this mean? It means that we cannot claim to be Christians, and then do evil as defined by the Bible as a habitual behavior. If we believe that God is God, and that the Bible is His Word, then we accept that He sets the rules and laws, and no matter how we may feel about things, we are to follow His Word and Laws.

The Bible speaks a great deal about the following concepts: Repentance, Acceptance of Jesus as our Lord, Belief in Jesus as Lord, Faith, and others. Some have a belief that these words have some generic meaning, for example, that you can believe without doing as Jesus said to do. or that you can accept Jesus without doing as He said. Can you really though? I do not believe so.

If there is even one verse in the New Testament (especially) that says that we are not to do something, then should we do it and somehow expect to be saved as we rub the Lord's nose in it with our patterns of behavior?

The Bible speaks of not having sex outside of marriage, and avoiding sexual immorality, that is enough fr me to make that change in my life. I was quite lucky in that the Lord drilled this into my head. He brought me away from being someone to whom He would have said "I never knew you". I was very, very fortunate. I do my best to turn away from the sinful behaviors I have followed, and even worshiped in a way, in the past. I am definitely not perfect. I fail. However, I am avoiding the patterns of sin where I decide that I know better than my Lord. Even one verse is enough to tell me that certain behaviors are not for me, no matter how I might feel inside.

Matthew 6: 24 says, “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

We can substitute anything else in there. We cannot serve God and sex, or God and greed, or God and success, or anything else. We have to choose, are we going to serve God, or are we going to serve something else?

Luke 13: 3 says, No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Now, again, do we repent through words alone, or through words and how we then behave in accordance with those words?

The Bible says that we are t o put on Christ, to act like Christ. I do wonder how some think Jesus would act towards them if He came back today, and they went running up to Him, calling out "Lord Jesus! Lord Jesus!", and He took a look at them and said "I never knew you"?

Paul was a man who killed Christians. He had contemptible behavior, and sinned mightily against Jesus. However, he turned away from the behavior, accepted Christ as his Lord, and he was saved. He repented his sins, and he turned from them, He was not perfect, but he also did not live in the same sinful patterns he did before he was saved. This is what we should do. This is an example we should follow. (without, of course, killing people)

I have been called hateful on this thread, and that is absolutely not the case. I do not hate anyone, and certainly not anyone on this thread, or board. If I hated people, I would not make any attempt to relay what the Bible says. I would just ignore it, and say to myself "Well, at least there won't be any of them in heaven." That is not what I think though. However, if some want to think that, then that is their right. The plain truth is that the Bible says certain things, both plainly, and in a pattern throughout. Some want to disregard that, or pretend that the things that are there aren't.

What does the Bible say about men and women?

Let's look at the pattern:

Ephesians 5: 22-23. Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, ...

Ephesians 5:33. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

1 Corinthians 5:8-11. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels. Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

Matthew 19:4-6. “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

1 Corinthians:1-4. Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

There is a pattern here, that runs throughout the Bible, and that is a man and his wife. It is never mentioned that a man should have a husband, nor that a woman should have a wife. Marriage is never mentioned as 2 people of the same gender. Not once. Even the Old Testament where a man had numerous wives, I cannot recall any case where 2 wives being in a sexual relationship was approved of.

Can anyone find one for me?

Now there are several verses that explicitly rebuke homosexuality.

I speak often of Old Testament verses as having been overwritten in many cases by the New Testament, however, in some cases they are reaffirmed.

The Old Testament says the following ....

Leviticus 18:22-24. “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.

Leviticus 20:13. “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Then the New Testament affirms the idea that homosexuality is wrong: (but without the death penalty ... on earth, anyway, the Old Testament had)

1 Corinthians 6:9-12. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Sexual Immorality “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything.

Romans 1:21-27. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Now, we can see that the Bible has a pattern, Old Testament and New Testament, that says that homosexuality is a sin. The Old Testament spells it out, and the New Testament affirms it. I am sorry, but the Bible spells it out. People can try to twist a word here or there, but there is a pattern of what the Bible presents as the natural order of things, and as acceptable before the Lord. People who are in such relationships have every right to continue if that is what they choose, but I do not want kids being told that something that the Bible says leads to death is perfectly OK. They also should not pretend that the Bible says such things are acceptable to God. I think that churches already to a really bad job of presenting the Bible, and the requirements of being a Christian, and how being a Christian should be reflected in our lives. Either we accept what the Bible say, or we do not. We can dispute a single word here or there, but not the pattern the Bible presents all the way through. I do think that some churches get too caught up in homosexuality. This is not even close to somehow being the "worst sin", or even close to being the most prevalent sin. (or even the most common sexual sin) Sex outside of marriage is far more common. Extramarital affairs are much more prevalent. There are many sexual sins that are habit for so many people, and they all lead to damnation. Any sin that rules a person's life, no matter what that sin is, leads away from God, and can demonstrate that a person is not truly saved. (can, but not necessarily always) If a sin exists within a pattern of sin, then it is sin that the Bible says can lead to condemnation. I certainly do not want to take that risk.

This post is not necessarily for anyone who has previously responded to this thread, but maybe for those who may be reading without ever becoming a member of the board. Perhaps someone who has questions may find a place to start looking for answers in some of the scriptures I listed.

Yes Ytown but you missed my favorite one that sends them screaming out of the building...

…28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

What the hell are you talking about? I said nothing of the sort. If you're responding to someone else, please make sure you're responding to them.

I didn't get that from Razorthorn's reply. If you did, that tells us more about your reading comprehension skills (or your glaring agenda) than anything else.

Thankfully we don't live in this fundamentally Biblical world. America would not be able to function with a bunch of blind, handless men. We all would be blind, handless men.

Yet dear lad, Yet.

You know damn well I wasn't responding to you.

Stop trying to pick a fight like some pissed off teenager. You'll lose. Every time.

Just make sure you're replying to the person that you're replying to. That you won't shows just how lazy you really are.

I think he called you stupid, you gonna stand for that?

Well, I think I have essentially called him that and I might have stated it explicitly a time or two. This time, I just called him lazy.

I think he called you lazy, you gonna stand for that?

I would not allow it in my house means that I will not allow the behavior in my house, not my children. My children are always welcome in my home and in my hugs. We may not be able to control how we feel sometimes but we CAN control our actions and we CAN work towards getting our feelings under control as well.

A person is greater than their baser instincts. That is what separates us from animals who can't control themselves. We live by our principles and laws. Doing what is right instead of what is wrong is what makes us better humans. I wont accept gay marriage because it is accepting sin as being ok and its NOT.

You have sex with the person you marry you don't get married because of you had sex. In this day and age where everyone is supposed to act like a slut that is hard for some to grasp. Instead of mastering your animal behavior you're told to indulge it, so long as, it hurts no one but yourself. That's because they don't care about you and they don't care if you hurt yourself. The ones who really care are the ones telling you to stop hurting your self.

You have a soul. Take care of it the way God has told you to and stop hurting yourselves by saying it doesn't matter because it does.

I believe when you continually go on and on and on preaching at people, it serves more to drive them away from God than helps draw them closer to Him.

Y-town that was a well thought out and very well put post. Thank you for sharing that with us =) I know it took you a lot of effort to put all that together to share with us.