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I think Skrine will receive close to number 1 money. Too many on this board severely underrate the guy.

We'll see.

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I totally agree Buster Skrine has been a player that has continued to develop and has gotten better each year. I do not think that will be lost on other GM's. He will not be cheap to re-sign and he is an important piece needed for the defensive scheme used by the Browns.

Gipson is another important piece needing to be re-signed. He will also demand a decent salary. He was a ball hawk last year before his injury and is routinely in the right spot.


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I agree w/you that both are worth significant paydays. I also think it is important for the Browns to keep both.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I think Skrine will receive close to number 1 money. Too many on this board severely underrate the guy.
We'll see.


He definitely would if he hits the FA market. Possibly we get a deal done it will be a little less then what he would have pulled in on the FA but it will be a pretty penny.

Wish he was an RFA. Hope he doesn't get away.



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Quote:


The Cleveland Browns, once again, had a disappointing, tumultuous season. But, like usual, their defense was reasonably solid. Even with Pro Bowl safety T.J. Ward departing as a free agent last season and first round draft selection Justin Gilbert contributing a sub-par season, the Browns' defensive unit held tough, particularly in the passing game, as Cleveland was the owners of the NFL's No. 8 ranked pass defense.

Of course, the well-known stalwart of the Browns is All-Pro cornerback Joe Haden, but it's the guy on the opposite side of the field who could garner much attention as a free agent; Buster Skrine.

Skrine had a career year in 2014, intercepting four passes and collecting 64 tackles. In fact, Haden's ability to lock-down half the field meant Skrine was facing a heavier barrage of passes, and he still performed well. The team wants Skrine back. Skrine wants to return to the Browns as well, but has stated he wants to test the free agent market, according to Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal. Skrine should, and most likely will, command some serious attention on the open market. He's only 25-years old, has experience playing against wide receivers on the outside and as a nickel corner guarding slot receivers and he's a willing and ferocious tackler.

Unfortunately for him, he enters a free agent market which will include the likes of Brandon Flowers and Bryon Maxwell, with a possibility of Darrelle Revis joining that list. Simply put, Skrine will be coveted, but he won't be the most coveted, which may drive down his price. Unfortunate for him, yes, but for a team lacking cap space but with a tremendous need for a young, experienced corner? Very fortunate.

The Steelers struggles in the pass defense department have been well-documented. With three of their cornerbacks set to enter free agency, Pittsburgh finds itself thin at the position. Options exist in the first round of the draft which could be immediate fixes, but Gilbert, Skrine's teammate, was the eighth selection of the draft and wound up dropping below an undrafted player on the Browns depth chart, demonstrating the impossibility of depending on a rookie to save the day. Skrine has yet to hit the prime of career and already has four seasons under his belt. He will likely come much cheaper than Flowers or Maxwell, and he could potentially provide a return equal to the investment of either of the aforementioned defensive backs.

Cleveland has a ton of cap room, the third most in the league, to be exact, but owner Jimmy Haslam has said he doesn't expect the Browns to be "major players" in free agency. Even if the Steelers, or any other team, offered Skrine a contract, the Browns could certainly match it, if not exceed it. Shrine, however, might find the opportunity to be a number one corner, which he very well could be in Pittsburgh, too good of an opportunity to pass up.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl...s-list-steelers

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


Cleveland has a ton of cap room, the third most in the league, to be exact, but owner Jimmy Haslam has said he doesn't expect the Browns to be "major players" in free agency.


Not for the first time, but, I really really wish the damn owner would keep his mouth shut about player personnel matters.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Shrine, however, might find the opportunity to be a number one corner...

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl...s-list-steelers


I like Buster and wish to retain him, but if he is your #1 corner, your secondary is probably in a world of hurt...

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buster is a handy person to have. can play both outside and nickle. i think some on the board think he is better than he is because of him being a 5th round pick.

can live with him at #2 corner better at slot.


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How much better is Haden than Skrine?

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If both were free agents, who would get paid more?

(The answer is Haden. By a lot.)

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That wasn't the question.

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Haden is much better than Skrine. Skrine is also good.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That wasn't the question.


haden is one of the best. buster is average at best. could never cover the #1s on a constant bases. jmo


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Originally Posted By: eotab
He definitely would if he hits the FA market. Possibly we get a deal done it will be a little less then what he would have pulled in on the FA but it will be a pretty penny.

Wish he was an RFA. Hope he doesn't get away.



From Buster Skrine's interview on Sirius XM this past week...


SiriusXM NFL Radio
‏@SiriusXMNFL
Buster Skrine: I would love to return to the Browns but I'm going to test the waters in free agency and see what's out there. #Browns

Link

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If you have the option to be on the open market, you should do it.

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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Shrine, however, might find the opportunity to be a number one corner...

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl...s-list-steelers


I like Buster and wish to retain him, but if he is your #1 corner, your secondary is probably in a world of hurt...


He doesn't have to be our #1 though. He fits that #2 role beautifully here. This is a kid who can be a great example for a guy like Gilbert, as he made himself into a top quality CB.


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If thats the case we should transition tag him so we can match anything he signs.

jmho


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Originally Posted By: eotab
If thats the case we should transition tag him so we can match anything he signs.

jmho


I don't consider Skrine a 'tag' candidate. His one year salary would be more than Haden. That's just crazy, IMO.

I do think there is only one worthwhile candidate to 'tag'. That's Cameron. And I think transition tag makes sense just like last year with Mack. Maybe even more sense because, again my opinion, there is no one else worth a tag relative to their position. Last year was a gamble choosing Mack over Ward. Because if you chose not to match Mack, opportunity costs sets in....not this year.

Transition tag Cameron. If he finds a contract elsewhere and you are cool with it, then keep him. If you don't like it, walk away. It's not like there was anyone else worth a tag. No skin lost, so to speak.

Gross thinks there is a 1% chance Cameron stays. Not sure if that is based on Cameron's desire to remain in Cleveland, Cleveland's desire to keep Cameron, or a little bit of column A and B.

Well, the 'tag window' is now open. We'll soon see.

Back to Skrine, I hope he stays, not think he is worth top $ or a tag.


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I thought Transition tag was top 10 CB avg salary.

I thought Haden was the top paid CB? or one of.

I was also thinking most transition tags won't become a one year tag. We would negotiate. Who else did we Transition tag recently and signed? Mack?

He said he wants to play for the Browns but wants to try the FA market to see what he is worth. He signs. We match or let him go to that club with no compensation. I doubt if he would just sign the one year tag and forget any long term contract.

Also on this subject. What is the starting point and ending for that matter on when teams can put TAG & Tenders on their players? I know its before FA starts.

jmho and ?


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Originally Posted By: eotab
I thought Transition tag was top 10 CB avg salary.

I thought Haden was the top paid CB? or one of.

I was also thinking most transition tags won't become a one year tag. We would negotiate. Who else did we Transition tag recently and signed? Mack?

He said he wants to play for the Browns but wants to try the FA market to see what he is worth. He signs. We match or let him go to that club with no compensation. I doubt if he would just sign the one year tag and forget any long term contract.

Also on this subject. What is the starting point and ending for that matter on when teams can put TAG & Tenders on their players? I know its before FA starts.

jmho and ?


It’s President’s Day for the USA. For the NFL, it’s the first day that guys can receive offers to be paid a hell of a lot more than any USA president ever made.

On Monday, the two-week window opens for application of the franchise and transition tags.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/16/franchise-transition-tag-window-opens-monday/

guess its two from today that it ends?


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Originally Posted By: eotab
I thought Transition tag was top 10 CB avg salary.

I thought Haden was the top paid CB? or one of.

I was also thinking most transition tags won't become a one year tag. We would negotiate. Who else did we Transition tag recently and signed? Mack?

He said he wants to play for the Browns but wants to try the FA market to see what he is worth. He signs. We match or let him go to that club with no compensation. I doubt if he would just sign the one year tag and forget any long term contract.

jmho and ?


You're right about the top ten figure for any position, in this case, CB. And I would imagine that would make Skrine's figures look a bit more appealing than an outright franchise tag, as I was alluding to. That's my mistake.

I still question the worth of tagging Skrine as opposed to Cameron, whose transition tag value would also decrease I'd assume relative to franchise tag.

Quote:
I thought Haden was the top paid CB? or one of.


Haden is one of the highest paid CBs in the league....in a total deal and guaranteed money. This year, his base is around $8M according to spotrac but I have no idea if the tag values are based on total cap hit or the base annual salary. I have no clue what other, older CBs are making based on their contract life as they tend to increase as the years go on.

Admittedly, I've seen only values for alleged franchise tag values, and briefly looking on the world wide web, I haven't seen much regarding the transition tag. And I do think it comes with a one-year tag that the playyer can eventually sign. Mack had an option to make 10M+ on a one year deal but would've risked injury...Oddly enough he got injured just not that severe that it could have ruined his career.

Quote:
Also on this subject. What is the starting point and ending for that matter on when teams can put TAG & Tenders on their players? I know its before FA starts.


The window begins today and runs through March 7th, according to the sites I referenced.

I guess it comes down to who you prefer. The Browns are again in a great position to use the transition tag to benefit them because of the large amount of cap space- thus flexibility.


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Cameron has had three concussions in the past two seasons. Says he's not concerned. Of course it's a big contract year for him so what's he supposed to say?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/06/jordan-cameron-not-concerned-about-his-concussions/

Welker is considering retirement after three concussions in ten months.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/20...cos-concussions


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i was hoping to use a transition tag on hoyer if possible if we don't have a vet targeted to bring in.


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Wes Welker is also 33 and none of that report quotes Welker (or even sources close to him) as concussions being the reason why. The writer adds that in after saying he is considering calling it quits.

I'm not saying concussions couldn't be a factor but his diminished role in Denver and age wouldn't surprise me as being equally, if not stronger, reasons.


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Well after the length of time he missed after his last concussion and with knowing that with each concussion the effects worsen, let's just say that it looks as if I'm a little more concerned about it than you are.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Well after the length of time he missed after his last concussion and with knowing that with each concussion the effects worsen, let's just say that it looks as if I'm a little more concerned about it than you are.


That seems like an unfair assumption. But that's cool.


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Cameron & Hoyer way too much money in tagging them.

Hoyer I don't see him signing - he'll take the one year average of the top 10 QBs salary in the NFL.. biggest pay day he will ever have and then bargain FA next year.

Cameron. Surprised we offered what we did. Good weapon but in a different way same type of risk as Gordon. IF NOT Suspended for drugs he can be a weapon. IF NOT out with a career ending concussion he could be a good weapon.

Skrine on the other hand is more apt to sign a long term contract. He could sign a contract that he is worth out on the market I just think it would be prudent to match it. Cameron and Hoyer not so sure depends on the contract.

jmho


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I might have done this completely wrong (very possible) but I avg. the total cap hit of the top ten players at TE and CB. If we transition tagged a TE, it would cost $8.2M. If we tagged a CB, it would cost $13.1M.

I don't know if it's a total cap hit or just the total cash spent that given year that is calculated for the tag...meaning bonuses and such not included. You can run those numbers as well. I just didn't have the time.

These figures are according to overthecap.com. I apologize in advance if I am using incorrect numbers, failed at elementary math I as am rapidly doing this before getting back to work, or if there is a site that already has better info relative to transition tags.

http://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/2015/

Edit: These numbers don't add up for the mere fact they're more than franchise tag numbers....maybe it's total cash spent? Hell, I don't know....Someone else do this smile


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Hoyer I don't see him signing - he'll take the one year average of the top 10 QBs salary in the NFL.. biggest pay day he will ever have and then bargain FA next year.

and if he can play the way he thinks he can for an entire season he will have much more bargaining power next year in FA.


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TE about where I thought and CB a little lower than what I thought which makes it all more possible to tag Skrine. That is just too much money for Cameron the position TE just not as coveted as CB and the concussion thing.

Just good guy stuff - Give him the one year tag and when he has to go on IR he'll get his one year 8 million as a retirement fund. I wouldn't mind that if it didn't have other effects on the team. Plus for the fact he wants out. Why do him a favor i he wants out. I assume he wants to retire on the West Coast.

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Originally Posted By: KNOXDAWG
i was hoping to use a transition tag on hoyer if possible if we don't have a vet targeted to bring in.


Paying Hoyer the average of what the top ten QBs are paid is a horrible idea. Teams struggle when they have to pay good QBs money, let alone below average ones.

What has Hoyer done to deserve a big payday?

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Quote:
What has Hoyer done to deserve a big payday?


10 wins 6 loss as a browns starting QB?


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According to PFT, Josh McCown left Buffalo without a contract.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/16/josh-mccown-leaves-buffalo-without-a-contract/

Arrgh, hope he's not planning on visiting Berea.

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Originally Posted By: Dave
According to PFT, Josh McCown left Buffalo without a contract.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/16/josh-mccown-leaves-buffalo-without-a-contract/

Arrgh, hope he's not planning on visiting Berea.


It's a scary thought. I can honestly say I'd rather have Brian. But, and to the comment of tagging Brian, I don't want him nowhere near that much. Nowhere even close to that

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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
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What has Hoyer done to deserve a big payday?


10 wins 6 loss as a browns starting QB?


Vince Young is also available and his won/loss record is much more impressive.

Crediting the team's overall performance in games we won to Hoyer when he had little (or adverse) impact is laughable.

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It's not laughable. Hoyer helped us win quite a few games.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
It's not laughable. Hoyer helped us win quite a few games.


Don't forget Vers, some people judge a QB's impact based on how many Fantasy Football points they produce.

Retaining Hoyer for at least one more season makes a lot of sense and has the most potential upside vs. signing a new QB or drafting a rookie and throwing him to the fire.
The teams benefits by keeping him because:

1) It gives us continuity at the position. Hoyer has demonstrated he's at minimum fairly competent at his position.

2) It gives continuity to the offense as a whole. So far it appears that Flip is going to build off of what Shanny left behind. Hopefully it will be similar enough and run well enough to give us 2 years in the same system. If Hoyer leaves after next season... not nearly as big a loss because at least the rest of the offense will have experience in the system.

Hoyer benefits because wants a payday. But I have to think even he sees that the way season ended, he's dug himself in to a bit of a hole. He really needs a "show me" season if he wants that big(ger) contract. I just don't see anyone being able to justify signing him to a starter's contract next season, and he'll never get that kind of money if he's only brought on to a team to "compete".

IMO Hoyer and the franchise need each other more than most people think.

AS for Buster... I wouldn't pay him Top 10 CB $$$, but I think he's earned and is worth a healthy, respectable deal. 4 years ago people were ready to burn him in effigy, but he's made huge strides and now is a legit CB in the league. It's guys like this that I think are important to sign (or make an honest attempt at retaining) in order to build a respectable organization. By all means let the kid test the market and if someone wants to pay him something crazy, more power to him! But the Browns ought to be taking him out to a nice steak dinner and making a case.


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Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
1) It gives us continuity at the position. Hoyer has demonstrated he's at minimum fairly competent at his position.

2) It gives continuity to the offense as a whole. So far it appears that Flip is going to build off of what Shanny left behind. Hopefully it will be similar enough and run well enough to give us 2 years in the same system. If Hoyer leaves after next season... not nearly as big a loss because at least the rest of the offense will have experience in the system.


These are the best two arguments for Hoyer's return. The "he was 10-7" argument that Hoyer himself is even trying to make is not valid.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: KNOXDAWG
i was hoping to use a transition tag on hoyer if possible if we don't have a vet targeted to bring in.


Paying Hoyer the average of what the top ten QBs are paid is a horrible idea. Teams struggle when they have to pay good QBs money, let alone below average ones.

What has Hoyer done to deserve a big payday?


Ask Deion Pay Da Man Sanders. Really though, why make a lateral move with someone with similar skill sets and average play ability? Hoyer knows the system, anyone else would need time to learn it. Don't see anyone in FA that would be much of an improvement.


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There's a 3rd reason I think organization benefits but it may be a little more difficult to break down. I've said this before, but while Hoyer may not be the guy you build a franchise around, he is the guy you can build a team around. Pettine gets credit for making good strides in instilling a new culture and mindset as it pertains to the players, but I think Hoyer deserves a fair amount of credit in this area as well. In the beginning of the season he didn't give up on the guys around him and it paid off with those come from behind efforts. In return, even though Hoyer struggled down the stretch, the team didn't give up on him. Even when he played poorly, I think there was always a sense that "we can still win it".

I don't know. When you start to talk about Leadership, it can often be difficult to quantify. Point is the guy has something that the team rallied around, something we really haven't seen in many if any of our other QB's over the years.

The biggest obstacle may be Haslam/Farmer and how Hoyer feels he will be treated. Hopefully if Pettine is getting the guys on staff that he wants it will mean more distance from the FO and more autonomy. We'll see I guess!


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