DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum What makes the Browns a "Storied Franchise"

1. The origin of the team and team name.

2. Winning the NFL Championship their first year in the league. As an expansion team. Only team in any sport to ever do that.

3. Greatest player in NFL history.

Note: Jim Brown came in 4th place in ESPN's Greatest Athletes of the 20th Century. He was the top-ranked NFL player BY FAR:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Babe Ruth
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jim Brown
5. Wayne Gretzky

(Joe Montana was the next highest NFL player at 25th)

and,

4. The greatest fans in sports history. This is the ONLY reason why there is a Cleveland Browns team today.

Good job brothers and sisters.

No mention of Otto Graham? 10 championship games in 10 years is nothing to sneeze at. I would also put Wayne Gretzky at #1. No one has come close to crushing records or scoring like Gretzky. Jordan would have had to put up triple doubles up for every game to even get close to Gretzky.

It's because all we have now are "stories" about how they used to be competitive.

Otto Graham came in at 86th.

"Imagine a quarterback leading his team to 10 straight Super Bowls today and you have a measure of the kind of man Otto Graham was," wrote the late Los Angeles Times columnist Jim Murray.

Besides Jim Brown and Otto Graham, the only other Cleveland athlete in the top 100 is Satchel Paige.

Bob Feller could easlly be the best pitcher in Major League history.

He would have set records that never would have been broken except that he joined the Navy for four years during WW II. (he did not pitch in the Majors from age 23 to 26-years-old)

That my friends is a sacrifice for country. Big Time.

Sadly, not a thing that occurred during my lifetime.

PrplPplEater:

"Sadly, not a thing that occurred during my lifetime."

WRONG!!! (unless you're under age 17)

The "re-awarding" of an NFL franchise in Cleveland in 1998 was unprecedented. The result of incredible fandom.

Let's face it Cleveland is a podunk town now.

Cleveland comes in as the 48th most populous city in the US (right between
Tulsa and Wichita)

"Oh.... The farmer and the cow man should be friends... The farmer and the cow man should be friends.. One man likes to push a plough, the other likes to chase a cow, But that's no reason why they cain't be friends."

Tulsa and Wichita.

In 1940, Cleveland was the 6th largest US city. Right behind Los Angeles.

Well that's depressing as hell.

Storied franchise? LOL........that is just some mindless posturing by people who are grasping at air.

The Browns are a joke across the country. Believe me on that one.

Hey, aren't you that team that drafted Manziel?

Hey, didn't you guys have The Three Stooges?

Hey, don't people call you the Clowns?

Hey, are you one of the only teams who haven't won a Super Bowl?

Did you really draft TRich and Weeden in the first round?

Did Tim Couch really cry?

Did you really draft Gilbert and Manziel in the first round?

Did you really not draft a WR after you knew about Gordon's suspension?

When was the last time you played in a playoff game?

Did your OC really talk his way out of town for a lateral move?

How many OC's have you had in the last 10 years?

What is "playing like a Brown" really mean?

Storied? Nah man.

Depends on what we mean by athlete. Ali gave everyone the hands including Jim Brown. And Jordan's Bulls never lost 3 games in a row in his career. The odds of that happening are so astronomically low that we're talking in the thousandths of places. Gretzky didn't do that.

Versatile:

Your post is quite perplexing and provincial.

Anybody could list a dozen one-line subjective criticisms of any team.

"Believe me on that one."

I live in Youngstown, and there are many Steelers fans around here.

They aren't laughing about the Browns. We beat the Steelers, when both teams were healthy. That really hasn't happened in a long time. I have heard things liek "You guys got a good coach", and "Your team isn't very far away from being really, really good". Do people jibe too? Of course. Did people jibe Steelers fans about Roethlisberger's problems throughout the years, and the RB who hated everyone, and their WRs' collective insanity .....? Yep.

Most teams have something stupid that happens that others make fun of and smack. We have had a bad off-season in that regard, but are still mainly seen as a team on the rise.

Man, "Tim Couch cried" ...... no one even remembers that one except those truly committed to doing so. I have seen that reference only a couple of times in the past 5 or 6 years ..... and it was the same person who brought it up both times on this very board.

Believe me, in Youngstown, Steelers fans love to blast away at the Browns. For the most part, though, they think that Gordon was an idiot. We did well against the Steelers this year, winning a game against them, so most Steelers fans aren't laughing about our receivers. Most don't care about Shanahan, since they thought he was cracked coming in. Do some make fun about Manziel? Yep. Of course. Do others think that he is doing a great thing by getting help? Yep. Gilbert is largely lost in the wash. I don't think that most Steelers fans even realize we drafted him.

Just giving the local perspective.

All franchises that have been in existence for a long time are storied.

Now it can be a good story or bad story, all plots have twists and turns.

See my signature.

Agreed.

And I agree with many other posters who added details of our history in favor of that honorific. We ARE a 'storied franchise.'

Here's my argument for the proposition:


This team is unique in all of professional sports because of its one-of-a-kind history. I mean... who allows the fans to have a voice in the naming of a professional franchise, before it even takes the field? And of those few, how many choose the name of their Head Coach as their team name? How many other teams' namesake would have objected... and been shouted down, by the will of the people who cheered for him (and the FO who hired him)?

How many franchises picked not just their Head Coach, but a majority of their players from nearby?

How many teams had a true innovator at the helm? A man with the foresight and vision to imagine modern 21st century football... and seek to employ its advantages 50 years earlier (taxi squad, radio communication etc)?

How many teams had a FO that was willing to break not only game tradition but American social barriers, when it came to issues of race and ethnicity... at a time when 2 of its most high-profile players were members of an ethnic group that was still being chased down at night, and hung from trees (-that's 'guts' of the highest order, if you ask me...) ?

How many teams can say that they employed the West Coast Offense DECADES before it even had a name?

How many teams had the vision and foresight enough to hire-as coaches, understudies, sub-coaches and lackeys- names like Don Shula, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, and Bill Belichick?

How many teams can say the strength and loyalty of their fan base FORCED the almighty NFL to capitulate... and grant them a fresh start with a brand new expansion team- yet allow them to retain their team name, colors, AND history after an almost 5-year hiatus?

How many other professional teams of ANY sport have a team-backing fan support club on every single continent on the planet (...yes- there's a 'Browns Backers' club on Antarctica)?

You bet, this is a 'storied' franchise... and half this franchise's "story" rests at the feet (and upon the shoulders) of its fans. There is simply no other professional team that elicits the passion, perseverance, pain and pleasure that this one does. The author of this post owns a 12" pennant from the Browns' last championship year. It hangs in the basement of his home... just like it did in the home where he grew up as a child. His eldest nephew will take ownership of it when I leave this plane of existence.

_________________

There are many factors that go into one's assessment of what makes for a 'storied' franchise. History, tradition, pride... and a sense of family attachment are tops in my criteria. In that regard, there is no other team that has more of a right to the mantle "Storied" than ours, despite recent history.

Not the Yankees
Not the Packers
Not the Red Sox
Not the Lions
Not The Bears
Not the Red Wings, Flyers or Dodgers

Nobody.

Oh, there are some from that list who could be considered 'equals'... but none are MORE deserving than Our Team.

No one.

A living team's story is ongoing... and that story consists of both the high AND low points, as that story unfolds. Because their tale is so fraught with ups and downs, and has persisted for so long on the national scene, I submit that they are one of the top five "storied" franchises of all time.

Trust me: when (yes, I said when) the Browns win it all, it will make for one of the all-time best sports sagas the world has ever seen. For now, it's still a story 'in progress.'

Yes. Definitely.

The Browns are- and will always be- a storied franchise.


just another .02,
Clemmy

So? Here's what Gretzky did.

Context is everything. Consider the following:
•In 1979, Gretzky enters the NHL on a team, Edmonton, that is coming from the World Hockey Association merger. He's not joining an established team. He IS the team. No one seriously expects the Oilers to compete with the NHL; everyone assumes they will be terrible.
•In that 1979-80 season, as an 19 year old rookie, Gretzky led the NHL in total scoring and assists. He went 51-86-137 and a ridiculous +51. He was the league MVP. As a rookie. Process that.
•As a 20 year old, Gretzky shattered the NHL's single season scoring record, going 55-109-164 +60. He broke the mark by 12 points, or 8% above the best single-season is record hockey history. He set the single-season record for assists this year (a record he would subsequently break eight more times). Again, he was the league MVP. This would be a down season for Gretzky when you see what he did next.
•As a 21 year old, Gretzky smashed his own record. By 48 points. He put up a 92 goal (still the record), 120 assist, 212 point barrage. In winning his third MVP, Gretzky beat the pre-Gretzky scoring record by 60 points, or about 40%.

And here we must pause. Let's ballpark this. Imagine someone:
•Batting .580 next year, or hitting 100 home runs;
•Or an NBA player averaging 70 points per game (breaking Wilt's 50.4 points per game record);
•Or an NFL quarterback throwing for 7,500 yards and 70 TDs; imagine a running back running for almost 3,000 yards.
•That's what Gretzky did by age 21, more or less. That's how much he smashed the previous standard.

And then he got better.


•From age 22-25, Gretzky proved it was no fluke, posting 196, 205, 208 and 215 point seasons. The last two of those years he won his first titles in 1984-85 and 1985-86.
•In 1983, Gretzky led the NHL in goals (71) , assists (125), points (196).. . Hall of Famer Peter Stastny was second in scoring..with 124 points, 72 back of Wayne.
•In 1984, Gretzky scored 87 goals. Michel Goulet was second.. with 56. Gretzky added 118 assists.. Paul Coffey was second .. with 86. And Gretzky put up 205 Coffey coming in second, at 126, just 79 behind Wayne.
•In 1985, Gretzky scored a league leading 73 goals (Kurri at 71 was second); put up 135 assists (Coffey's 84 was second, 51 behind) and scored a stunning 208 points, 73 ahead of Kurri's 135, which ranked second. Gretzky would have won the scoring title (or tied for it) had he scored zero goals -- except he also happened to lead the league in goals. A pretty good played named Mario Lemieux was a rookie this year -- he scored 100 points and won Rookie of the Year Honors. Double that, and you are still eight points shy of Gretzky.
•In 1986, Gretzky scored only 52 goals, sixth in the NHL. Of course, he also scored 163 assists, the best single-season assist record in NHL history (49 more than any player not named Gretzky has ever put up in a season). And Gretzky set the all-time points record with 215 points.
•The next two years, he won two more Stanley Cup titles, for a total of four.

link

Serious "ManLove," Erik...

...and well-deserved.

Thanks Board Elders

I didn't quite understand where Versitool was coming from.

Actually, I was already a hockey fan back then. My dad played defenseman on an amateur team before minor league teams had Zambonis. The amateur team would resurface the ice between periods for the minor leagues, and would play the bonus game before the minor league game.

During Gretzky's career, the NHL appeared on ESPN almost every day, and it was the during the rise of the NHL. I was one of the few people in my area that understood the game, and I turned on all my friends to hockey.

I got to see Gretzky score hat tricks, while flying through the air, from behind the goal, and outskate everyone on the ice. I got to see Marty McSorely attempt murder on the ice when someone touched Gretzky. Those were awesome games. I was watching the game when he broke the Rangers goalie's mask with a slap shot. Hell the NHL even changed the coincidental minor rule to prevent the Oilers from playing 4 on 4, as they obviously had the advantage during a 4 on 4. No one comes close to Gretzky as a player in any sport. He was a true phenom.

That was probably the greatest era in hockey, and I'm glad I got to see most of it.

8 Championships, Otto Graham (Played in 10 Championship games and won 7 in 10 years ... No other QB has ever done that) JIM BROWN, 16 Hall of Famers, 37 Winning Seasons 26 Losing Seasons 3 Even Seasons ... (3 Winning 19 Losing since 1989) so before 1990 we had 34 Winning 7 losing and 3 even seasons ... That is why we are called a "Storied Franchise" ...

8 Championships, Ottom Graham, Jim Brown and Eric Metcalf returning three againt the Steelers for a Browns rout!

Two other of our players also played 10 consectutive championship games: Lou "the Toe" Groza and Frank "Gunner" Gatski. "The Toe" played 12 champioship games all with The Browns and "Gunner" Gatski 11 championship games,10 with Browns and 1 w/Detroit vs Browns. Otto has 7 rings,The Toe and Gunner 8 each.

I figured someone had to there with Otto, thanks for the info I bet there are more, I am just amazed when they exclude Otto Graham when talking about the greatest all time QB'S superconfused:

Just another nugget,players and coaches who became head coaches: Players: Don Shula,Otto Graham,Lou Saban,Lou Rymkus,Mike McCormack,Walt Michaels,Monte Clark,Chuck Noll,Bill Cowher,Dick Modzelewski,Jim Shofner,Paul Wiggin, . Coaches to HC: Webb Ewbank,Blanton Collier,Nick Skorich,Lindy Infante,Marty Schottenheimer,Terry Robeski. The Oz and Mike McCormack both had high front office titles.

How forgetful being in hurry to not mention Dante "Glue Fingers" Lavelli in 10 consectutive championship games,seven rings.

Called out again for family duties before finishing reply as to players going into prominent assistant coaching positions we have John Sandusky (intern HC at Balt Colt) and Carl Taseff helping Don Shula,Ed Ulinski,Lou Groza and Ernie Green all coached for Browns,Ed Ulinski and The Toe both served in FO,Babe Parilli as QB coach,Jerry Rhome QB coach,WFL,Arena league HC,Gary Lane was a NFL referee,Pepper Johnson coach,Rick Lyle strength coach. If memory gets over this overload,I believe,Dino Hall and Brian Sipe got into HS and/or college coaching. And Bob Golic and Top Dawg were coaches in the Ladies (Langeire)Football League. ALso had Warren Lahr,George Ratterman,Reggie Rucker as national TV network game commentators,Doug Dieken,Browns,and Dave Logan<Denver,radio commentators.

For me, it's a historic sentiment.

So someone down the line spoke of our OVERALL record, most of that coming prior to 1989. To me that makes it a storied franchise.

Most everything that has happened since Art Modell moved the team has been a detraction for the Good to OUTSTANDING history prior.

We're having problems. We've been having problems since really 1990 except for a couple of years in there.

So we have 43 years of being competitive (even great at times)vs 25 years of mostly horrid history.

Last season, for all the problems that surfaced during and after the season, I still feel optimistic about this team and so much of that relates back to a belief that Pettine is a good coach.

Is there real problems, yes, but to overblow them seems self serving to me.

1. Our History

2. Our Fans

Anybody got a problem with that then bring on Michael Buffer and lets get this party started.

lol! That's sad and pathetic if that is something that counts as making us "storied" (aside from the literal interpretation which means that we have a lot of stories to tell).


Here's more that makes us a storied franchise:

Red Right 88
The Drive
The Fumble
The Move
Art Modell Fires Paul Brown
Don Rogers
Ernie Davis



I'm 43 years old, and none of the stories have a happy ending.

Some of you can get up in arms, get sentimental, belittle an opposing opinion, try and be poetic, but the facts say you are wrong. YTown......I know a ton of Steeler fans. They all laugh at us!

Let's look at the facts, shall we:


1999 1999 NFL AFC Central 6th 2 14 0
2000 2000 NFL AFC Central 6th 3 13 0
2001 2001 NFL AFC Central 3rd[17] 7 9 0
2002 2002 NFL AFC North 2nd 9 7 0 Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Steelers 33–36)
2003 2003 NFL AFC North 4th 5 11 0
2004 2004 NFL AFC North 4th 4 12 0
2005 2005 NFL AFC North 4th[18] 6 10 0
2006 2006 NFL AFC North 4th 4 12 0
2007 2007 NFL AFC North 2nd[19] 10 6 0
2008 2008 NFL AFC North 4th 4 12 0
2009 2009 NFL AFC North 4th 5 11 0
2010 2010 NFL AFC North 3rd 5 11 0
2011 2011 NFL AFC North 4th 4 12 0
2012 2012 NFL AFC North 4th 5 11 0
2013 2013 NFL AFC North 4th 4 12 0
2014 2014 NFL AFC North 4th 7 9 0


That translates to 84 wins and 172 losses for a winning percentage of less than 33 percent.

We have appeared in one playoff game since 1999.

We have not won a playoff game during the time of the New Browns.

We have lost double digit games in 12 out of the 16 years we have been back.

In comparison, we have won double digit games just once in those 16 years.

We have hired and fired more Head Coaches, GMs, Team Presidents, Coordinators, Coaches, and Scouts than we can count.

Storied? Nope..........it is more like Soiled.

The Browns were the "Team of the Decade" during the 50s.

Just because the Browns have sucked since being raped doesn't take that away.

To think it does shows your limited appreciation of sports history.

That's fine.

But don't blow it off like it doesn't count. And Versitool - you're merely an irritant. Kinda like a hemorrhoid.

None of that "ancient" history matters until we win one now. People don't care about that. It doesn't get talked about. It WOULD get talked about it if we won something today though.

Bring up Otto Graham to just about any non-Browns fan and you'll get a "Who?"

Uncle Rockyhill is gonna try to explain.

This thread was meant to be about the past history of the Browns. Not the recent state of affairs of the team.

The Browns have been amazingly horrific since coming back. Unbelievable. Terrible mistakes by all levels of the organization.

But that's all been hashed and rehashed on other forums of this board.

It's OK to be proud of the Browns for a few minutes.

I am and have been a loyal fan of the historic Browns and I'll always view them as one of the league's premier teams.

I don't want to join in bashing, but what we have now is an expansion team that took the name, uniform and colors.

It's like watching an updated and totally lame reissue of one of your old favorite movies or TV shows or listening to a lame version of your favorite song.

I'm hoping this team will reach the level of excellence as the original Browns. I think I'll still consider them 2 different teams, but that might be because I'm old.

Wonder if I could get away w/a comment like that?

And these Browns are not the same Browns as those who won championships.

Our team moved to Baltimore in the late 1990s. A new ownership was handed the franchise in 1999. It was given to a man who actually helped Modell move the Browns to Baltimore.

The Browns of 1999---through the present are the Browns. The Browns who won championships are the Ravens.

Our history is soiled, not storied.

When we kept our name and colors we also kept our history, IMO. That was the whole point. Baltomore thought they were going to get the Baltimore Browns, but they didn't. On the other hand, their history moved to Indianapolis with the Colts.

No, that history belongs to us. Those trophies are in Cleveland. We even kept our name. Baltimore couldn't do that when they lost their team, couldnt even do it when they stole our team. The new team in Houston isn't the Oilers is it? THE NEW TEAM IN BALTIMORE ISNT THE BROWNS EITHER!

Like rocky said, this isn't a knock the Browns thread. There are plenty of other threads doing that.