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I hope, in all of your research, you took the time to factor in how many times the QB was rushed or sacked and had to throw the ball away due to his offensive line play, or lack thereof. I also hope you looked at the receivers to study how many balls were dropped or how many routes were run incorrectly. Oh, and I'm sure you compared the opposing teams' defenses and all of their stats too because, being the football fanatic you are, clearly you know what a misleading stat completion percentages can be when comparing quarterbacks unless you consider all of the aforementioned factors. It'd be interesting to see all that if you have it, so feel free to post information other than merely the stuff that supports your arguments from time to time. 
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and this is exactly why STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!! ...... what a joke ... why dont u post the scores of those games .... my guess is BQ would have had to put up about 45 - 50 pts to win ANY of those games ... your a WASTE OF TIME ... u maybe a mensa but when it comes to football knowledge your definetly a menZa ... 
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Quote:
I hope, in all of your research, you took the time to factor in how many times the QB was rushed or sacked and had to throw the ball away due to his offensive line play, or lack thereof. I also hope you looked at the receivers to study how many balls were dropped or how many routes were run incorrectly.
I'm not knocking Quinn or the premise of your post.
But if people didn't do this for Charlie,why do you expect people will do this for Quinn?
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LOL... Tom Brady had Jeff Backus, Steve Hutchinson and Jon Jansen blocking for him and Chris Howard was no slouch at RB in college. The defense was loaded with future pros Charles Woodson, Ian Gold, Sam Sword, Dhani Jones and Glen Steele etc... Tom Brady wasn't 3-1 in big games, The University of Michigan football team was 3-1 in big games. And they had a loaded college team. Peyton Manning's team had the likes of Terry Fair, Marcus Nash, Leonard Little, Trey Teague, Andy McCullough and was also a much better squad than what was around Brady Quinn.
Ultimately, sure Quinn may not work out and that's yet to be seen. But what you're doing is comparing the two greatest QBs of this generation and what they did with far superior teams 10 years ago in college. Its time to set aside the man crush on Charlie Frye and wait and see what we have in Brady Quinn before calling him a failure.
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That's the thing... no one will ever do this. It's far easier to bash a QB and demand his head on a platter, or like Mensa, point to shallow stats and never even give him a chance before your peanut of a mind is made up about a guy. I hope Charlie and Brady both exceed everyone's expectations.
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I just typed up this long post on stats of both Quinn and Frye (trying to show no bias whatsoever) and the form timed out....  Michigan, USC and LSU all scored 40+ points in those games.
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In 2005, the only 3 losses ND had was Ohio State, USC, and Michigan State. Ohio State scored 34 points, USC scored 34 points, and Michigan State scored 44 points In 2006, the only 3 losses ND had was USC, Michigan, and LSU USC scored 44 points. LSU scored 41 points. Michigan scored 47 points. In Brady Quinn's 6 losses over the last 2 years, Notre Dame gave up an average of 40.6 PPG. Yeah, it was Brady's fault that Notre Dame never won a big game 
Last edited by TopDawg16; 05/03/07 11:03 AM.
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Pretty-boy quarterbacks from Notre Dame are going to cause a certain amount of resentment, apparently even from pretty-boy quarterbacks from Notre Dame.
gotta hand it to him - that was kinda funny.
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Michigan, USC and LSU all scored 40+ points in those games.
Ding, Ding, Ding. 47, 44 and 41 to be exact 
Playing with less talent against better teams is hard enough as it is. Playing BEHIND with less talent in big games is damn near impossible.
When a teams DE's can pin their ears back and rush the passer on every play, against an inferior offensive line, the results are not going to be pretty.
Quinn played pretty well against Michigan. Had a good game against USC's defense, even with his receivers dropping something like 8 balls and obviously didn't play all that well against LSU.
Here's my problem with the whole "Brady Quinn can't win a big game knock." Look at his numbers in his last 6 big games combined (Michigan (2), USC (2), Tennessee and LSU):
2005:
Michigan: 19/30 140 yards, 2 TD's, O INT's
USC: 19/35 264 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Tennessee: 20/33, 295 Yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's
2006:
Michigan: 24/48, 234 yards, 3 TD's, 3 INT's
USC: 22/45, 274 Yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's
LSU: 15/35, 148 yards, 2 TD's, 2 INT's
Combined stats:
119/226, 1,355 yards, 14 TD's, 6 INT's
Per game averages of:
20/37, 226 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT
Am I missing something here?  Is that really THAT bad when you consider those were his "biggest games?" Now that I got all the way through this I forgot I missed the 2005 Fiesta Bowl against OSU:
29/45, 286 yards, 0 TD's, 0 INT's
But again, how is that playing badly? I think the telling stats are in 2005 when he played with a MUCH better group of talent around him (with Fassano at TE and Stovall at WR). In that 05' campaign, he threw 6 TD's and only 1 INT in four total games against Michigan, USC, Tennessee and Ohio State all while carrying a 61% completion percentage. Overall, I'd like the completion % to get a little bump but he comes out the other end of all these "big games" with a 2 to 1 TD/INT ratio and a not so bad 235 YPG average. Was he outstanding across the board? No he wasn't but looking at the numbers objectively doesn't lead me to any of the conclusions some other people have made (i.e. the reason ND didn't win was because of BQ).
I know a lot of people like Chuck. Hell, I do too but bashing Brady at Chuck's expense is so incredibly pointless at this stage in the game. The numbers just rally aren't there to support peoples arguments about Quinn being the reason Notre Dame lost big games. He didn't light the place on fire but he did play fairly well and definitely not as bad as many would lead you to believe.
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how about comparing oranges to oranges
only 3 games for Quinn's stats, but 4 and 5 for Brady and Manning, respectively. 'big games' is a subjective term. you could change those stats to say Manning was 0-2 and Brady was 0-1. also, you're only comparing Brady to Quinn now that he's panned out in the NFL. there was a hell of a lot more doubt about Brady's ability coming into the draft, which is why he went so high. you're using an anomaly to pad your stats.
again.
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nrtu.....I've been wondering where's that Silver Dollar at???
Do or have any of you guys thought about how big that COIN FLIP was??
If TB was in 3rd who would they have taken JT or BQ then who would we pick
anyway we would of gotten only one not two if it was JT/BQ/or AP
Phil said BQ wasn't in his top 3 so who was # 4 
Um, at #3 Tampa would not have touched Brady Quinn, that's a fact. How can I be so positive? Well, they didn't pick him at #4.
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and let's not forget that USC should NEVER have won that game. the 'bush' into the end zone should have negated the touchdown - BOOM - ND wins your big game, and against a far superior foe.
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Not directing this to you NAS,,, But how come when Notre Dame lost it was the talent around Quinn but when the Browns lose, it's all Charlie Frye.. Kinda moot at this point, but I just wanted to ask 
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Well, it's stupid to put the blame on Charlie with the lack of talent on the team. But, what I would say to your question, is... how many games did our D give up 40 points a game like Notre Dame's did?
Like I said, Brady Quinn has 6 losses in two years. In those 6 losses, the ND defense gave up an average of 40.6 PPG.
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:Don't worry Daman, IF the Browns lose when Brady is at QB, many people will treat him the same way they're treating Charlie Frye. :crazy
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Yes ATTACK,we did.  Actually Kardiac,I think "most people" will. Just not people on Browns message boards. See we've had QB contraversy's for years now. And they have varied greatly. Couch/Holcomb,Dilfer/Frye. Now it will be Frye/Quinn at least for a while. And with each passing arguement,the bitterness grows. The judgement grows quicker. The anxiety to win rears its ugly head. The will and desire to win are just fine,but when it turns into anxiety,common sense and perspective gets lost IMO I wasn't a big Holcomb supporter for only one major reason. He was purely a bacdk-up from his skill set. I feel that way about many back-ups. Matt Schaub as well. When you're that back-up,they don't have enough game film to study tendencies on you. To game plan for you in your current system. But once you become the starter,your game will be what they gameplan for. They start aquiring film on you to study. That's when back-ups get exposed. I think Schaub has a much better skill set than most back-ups,but it still makes me a little nervous had I have signed that contract with him. My point is,the Charlie supporters *which I am one of* asked people to consider those same circumstances. So did we as supporters of Couch. But we never got that courtesy. In the case of Charlie,we asked people to take the OC into consideration. I mean if you look at it,under MO,EVERY part of the offense looked bad. We asked they take a look at the HUGE difference in the results on the field from the time Davidson took over and Charlies production under Davidson. No luck. Now I am more of a Browns fan that to let previous "bouts" with other posters get in the way of me doing my utmost in regards to promoting what I feel is "best for the Browns". But there is quite a bit of bad blood and a willingness to throw the very same stats and things in the face of others,as they have done to you. I'm not going down that road myself,because I feel Brady Quinn has far more of a skill set and potential to be a franchise QB than Charlie. So under the circumstances,getting Quinn was a good move for the future of the Browns IMO. Now had we drafted Quinn at #3 and bypassed Thomas,I wouldn't be as supportive. Even Savage said without a Thomas,we weren't ready for Quinn. I agree with that 100%! Is the OL complete? I hope not. But the weaker of the two sides will be the side where Quinn can see what's coming at him. We have invested heavily in what it takes to build an environment that breeds success in developing a QB. Once that had been done on the OL,I have no problem that they drafted Quinn. But I agree with you that to some,this will be a perpetual battle that will spark up at every possible turn. And I think it's very sad. JMHO
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Not directing this to you NAS,,,
But how come when Notre Dame lost it was the talent around Quinn but when the Browns lose, it's all Charlie Frye..
Kinda moot at this point, but I just wanted to ask
Because, as a Browns fan, EVERY play is the QBs fault. If the D let's up a TD - it's the QBs fault, if the WR drops the ball, it's the WBs fault, if the QB runs for his life every play, it's because he holds the ball too long, if the RB gets 150 yds and 3 TDs and the QB is 12-20 with 175 yds 0TDs and 0ints and we win. The QB had nothing to do with it. It's the way of the Browns fan. This year, if Frye starts the year - people will chant for Quinn the first time a WR drops the ball. It's going to be ugly those first few games with people chanting for Quinn. Then he'll make rookie mistakes and people will say Savage is stupid and Quinn will get booed - it's the cycle of Browns fans.
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Not directing this to you NAS,,,
But how come when Notre Dame lost it was the talent around Quinn but when the Browns lose, it's all Charlie Frye..
Kinda moot at this point, but I just wanted to ask
Well we're talking about BIG games, not every game. Chuck was just bad in almost all of them.
There's a big difference in Brady Quinn's numbers with less talent around him then there are with Chuck's numbers with less talent around him. Sorry, I had to get my rib in, I know what you're saying.
We were in a lot of games last season where our offense (mainly chuck) couldn't get it done late in the game. There's a big difference in your defense giving up 40+ points a game against good competition and your defense keeping you in a game and giving you a chance to win in the 4th quarter. Quinn never had a chance to beat Michigan, LSU or USC this season. Well unless you consider spotting each team a 14 point lead giving him a chance.
On the flipside, better play from the QB (mainly decision making) could have easily netted us wins against Pittsburgh, Houston, Baltimore, New Orleans and Carolina (put the damn ball in the end zone). Would it have meant wins in ALL of those games? Obviously not but 9-7 wasn't all that far away when you look back on things and 7-9, 8-8 wasn't neccessairly all that unrealistic. On the flipside 3-13 was pretty close as well when you consider Chuck's little pee wee football impersonation (when he closed his eyes and threw the ball into the endzone off his back foot at the end of that game against Oakland). Anyway...
I like Chuck, I honestly do but may the best man win. If BQ is better in camp let him start. If a 3rd year player can't beat out a rookie QB in a competition then there's obviously a noticable flaw in him as a player. I have no problem going in to this season with Chuck, none whatsoever. I personally just don't think he has what it takes to hold off a guy that is as smart and talented as Brady is. I'd like to think in a perfect world we could sit Brady for a season and have him take over in 2008 but I just don't think Frye or Anderson are good enough to keep him on the bench. I hope I'm wrong because that would be a great position to be in (two potential starting QB's on the same roster) as Atlanta robbed Houston in a trade for Shaub.
Believe me, I'm pulling for Chuck. Having "too many" QB's on your roster would be a great problem to have. I just don't believe in sitting Brady at all costs. If he's better in camp, I think he should play. I also don't believe in throwing him (Charlie) under the bus. If Frye wins the job he sure as hell better not have a short leash. I don't want Charlie looking over his shoulder everytime he makes a mistake. If he's the guy, we better stick with him. In the end, I think every situation is different. Quinn steps in to a pretty positive one with the OL revamped and some good, young targets to throw to. So, if the coaches think he's the guy I don't think he's in a TC situation. I think Brady could be successful given our current roster on offense. With all that said, I really hope Charlie keeps him on the bench.........but in the end, I just wouldn't bet on it.
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There's another angle that may sound a little ugly,but a very real possibility.................................. They may sit Quinn for 6-8 weeks while Thomas gets over some of his "rookie jitters" and settles in a bit. Let Charlie take the abuse he's already used to and lessen the risk of injurring your future franchise QB. I'm not predicting it,but remember where you heard it.
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Not directing this to you NAS,,,
But how come when Notre Dame lost it was the talent around Quinn but when the Browns lose, it's all Charlie Frye..
Kinda moot at this point, but I just wanted to ask
There's a big difference in Brady Quinn's numbers with less talent around him then there are with Chuck's numbers with less talent around him. Sorry, I had to get my rib in, I know what you're saying.
We were in a lot of games last season where our offense (mainly chuck) couldn't get it done late in the game. There's a big difference in your defense giving up 40+ points a game against good competition and your defense keeping you in a game and giving you a chance to win in the 4th quarter. Quinn never had a chance to beat Michigan, LSU or USC this season. Well unless you consider spotting each team a 14 point lead giving him a chance.
On the flipside, better play from the QB (mainly decision making) could have easily netted us wins against Pittsburgh, Houston, Baltimore, New Orleans and Carolina
Pittsburgh and Baltimore he had a 90 rating, Northcutt SPOTTED Carolina 7 when Frye hit him in the hands and he decided to play hot potato and Carolina returned it for a TD. Houston, HE WAS INJURED AND NOT SUPPOSED TO PLAY!!!! New Orleans - are you joking? Some idiot OC called sweeps by a FB on 3rd and inches TWICE in the game and he ran for his life. Without Frye, we get shutout. His rush TD was necessity, not a planned run. You are the epidomy of what I referred to in my post. You blame the QB for everything.
It's his fault that the wrong blocking scheme was called on the Baltimore int, I'm sure it was his fault for the 7 times he got sacked too. It's Frye's fault for the Browns not stopping a 3rd and 20 on the Steelers final drive. COME ON - WAKE THE ...UP!!!!
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You are the epidomy of what I referred to in my post. You blame the QB for everything.!
Soup, you cherry pick one statement in a fairly long post and run with it. If you want to do that, that's fine....I just think you're missing the point. Maybe I missed where I typed the QB lost us 5 games last season? Obviosuly there's more to it then that........BUT, getting better restraint from our signal caller could have made a positive improvement on our overall record.
The main statement in that entire paragraph you posted was that WITH BETTER DECISION MAKING from the QB, we could have easily won 4-5 more games. I guess I don't see how you fail to agree with that? It's not just Chuck but DA as well. If our signal caller makes better decisions late in games, we're a totally different team last season. I'm not laying it all on the QB but it played a big part in losing several close games last year. If you want to try and belittle people because of their opinions be my guest. You just come off as an ass.
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You are the epidomy of what I referred to in my post. You blame the QB for everything.!
Soup, you cherry pick one statement in a fairly long post a run with it. If you want to do that, that's fine....I just think you're missing the point.
The main statement in that entire paragraph you posted was that WITH BETTER DECISION MAKING from the QB, we could have easily won 4-5 more games. I guess I don't see how you fail to agree with that? It's not just Chuck but DA as well. If our signal caller makes better decisions late in games, we're a totally different team last season. I'm not laying it all on the QB but it played a big part in losing several close games last year. If you want to try and belittle people because of their opinions be my guest. You just come off as ass.
x2.
If we could just close out ONE extra drive from those games, our record would be in so much better shape.
Of course, we might have missed out on Thomas. As painful as last year was, Thomas and Quinn make up for it right now.
Was #9 put in a position to fail? Yes. Would he have succeeded if we were better? I highly doubt it. I can't believe how many times last season I caught myself wishing we had Couch under center because at least he was calm with the game on the line.
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I can't believe how many times last season I caught myself wishing we had Couch under center because at least he was calm with the game on the line.
Long live Tim Couch!
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You are the epidomy of what I referred to in my post. You blame the QB for everything.!
Soup, you cherry pick one statement in a fairly long post a run with it. If you want to do that, that's fine....I just think you're missing the point.
The main statement in that entire paragraph you posted was that WITH BETTER DECISION MAKING from the QB, we could have easily won 4-5 more games. I guess I don't see how you fail to agree with that? It's not just Chuck but DA as well. If our signal caller makes better decisions late in games, we're a totally different team last season. I'm not laying it all on the QB but it played a big part in losing several close games last year. If you want to try and belittle people because of their opinions be my guest. You just come off as ass.
I cherry picked your statement because the games you described had ZERO to do with QB decisions. Frye got blindsided as he threw vs. Baltimore. We could have killed time and tried running in, Frye was NOT allowed to audible. In Pittsburgh - well, 90 rating for the QB, 0TDs and 0ints. How is that his fault - what decision could he have done better? Should he have sacked Ben on the 3rd and 20? Should he have completed Easons sack? Should he have tackled Fraser before he blocked Ben? As for New Orleans - what decisions could he have made better? As soon as he dropped back he was hounded by 4 DL, it was a miracle that he got away enought to help us score 14 points. How can Frye put the ball in the endzone vs. Carolina when Norhtcutt throws it in to the defenders hands for 7? How can Frye make a decision on 3rd and inches when a FB is throwing the football? You can pretend like I sound like an ass but look at the games as a whole which you didn't. Frye got SACKEd (not hit, but sacked) 7 times vs. Baltimore. With better OLINE play this team could have put up more points, with a BETTER OC in the first 6 games this team could have been .500. Under Davidson, Frye was 3-4 with a 77 rating. There's your 7-9 or 8-8 record.
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Because, as a Browns fan, EVERY play is the QBs fault Yeah..like every time you trip someone was blocking your view..  There U go with your overgeneralizations again.. The knowledgable posters KNOW there were times the Oline /WR's /play calling was at fault. And these same posters also can look at FRYE and any other QB we've had in a SEPERATE light also. Something U fail to do..U'd rather post stats about how accurate Frye is..
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You are the epidomy of what I referred to in my post. You blame the QB for everything.!
Soup, you cherry pick one statement in a fairly long post a run with it. If you want to do that, that's fine....I just think you're missing the point.
The main statement in that entire paragraph you posted was that WITH BETTER DECISION MAKING from the QB, we could have easily won 4-5 more games. I guess I don't see how you fail to agree with that? It's not just Chuck but DA as well. If our signal caller makes better decisions late in games, we're a totally different team last season. I'm not laying it all on the QB but it played a big part in losing several close games last year. If you want to try and belittle people because of their opinions be my guest. You just come off as ass.
x2.
If we could just close out ONE extra drive from those games, our record would be in so much better shape.
Of course, we might have missed out on Thomas. As painful as last year was, Thomas and Quinn make up for it right now.
Was Frye put in a position to fail? Yes. Would he have succeeded if we were better? I highly doubt it. I can't believe how many times last season I caught myself wishing we had Couch under center because at least he was calm with the game on the line.
Baltimore -- we run instead of throw. We score a TD and win the game - that's on the OC.
New Orleans -- we don't telegraph a draw at the end of the first half, we don't do not 1 but 2 sweeps to a FB on 3rd and inches and we coninue 2 drives. That's on the OC.
Carolina -- we run on 3rd and inches rather than have a FB throw the ball and the drive continues -- that's on the OC.
On 3rd and 20 vs. Pittsburgh - the D stops them and they punt - there's your extra drive.
Now factor in an int for a TD off Northcutts hands vs. Carolina and an int that ended the game off BEs chest vs. New Orleans. So again, what better decisions would have helped the game? THE OCs in 3 of them and a BLITZNG D in the 4th!!!!
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j/c...
Can we all just agree on this?... The O-Line sucked. Charlie Frye sucked. They both sucked! lol.
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Because, as a Browns fan, EVERY play is the QBs fault
Yeah..like every time you trip someone was blocking your view..
There U go with your overgeneralizations again..
The knowledgable posters KNOW there were times the Oline /WR's /play calling was at fault.
And these same posters also can look at FRYE and any other QB we've had in a SEPERATE light also.
Something U fail to do..U'd rather post stats about how accurate Frye is..
I'm the only one who looks at it as a whole. for the situations in the games brought about by Nas. Give me the specific plays that cost us the games. I gave many situations out of the QBs hands that cost us the game. Be specific, if you can't - then nothing sticks out to you and YOU are the ones with "overgeneralizations" like talking about QB decisions costing us games.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
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With better OLINE play this team could have put up more points, with a BETTER OC in the first 6 games this team could have been .500. Under Davidson, Frye was 3-4 with a 77 rating. There's your 7-9 or 8-8 record.
I don't think I've ever said better OL play wouldn't help. That's why I'm still trying to figure out why I was called the epitome of blaming everything on the QB.
Anyway, just because our line play was below average doesn't mean you can't atleast partially evaluate the QB. You point to his record and rating with Davidson as a positive but Chuck still had just 4 TD's and 7 INT's through that stretch of games. DA also finsihed off the win against KC that Chuck is getting credit for. His QB rating is receiving a big boost from his completion percentage alone (down the stretch), which obviously isn't all that relevant if you don't protect the football or put it in the endzone. It looks nice on it's own but it's a pretty hollow stat when you look at his other numbers. I'm not saying completing passes isn't important but when you do nothing else well, it hardly holds a lot of weight in an argument.
I'm sure Chuck will look much better with an improved line in front of him but will that change how jittery he is in the pocket, even when he has protection? Will it stop him from throwing across his body on the run? Across the field in to coverage? Or off his back foot? Protection helps but Chuck also displayed a plethora of bad habbits throughout the entire year. Maybe that's a direct correlation to the offensive line or maybe it's just that he just doesn't have it? I havn't thrown him under the bus but at the same time I don't think he should be handed the starting job. He might look better behind the new line but Quinn might look even better. I guess I don't buy in to the notion that Frye needs to keep the seat warm for Quinn for a season and maybe you disagree with that. If Quinn is better, I personally think he should play. If they're close, I would prefer he sits and Chuck gets a chance to show what he has behind a better offensive unit.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
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With better OLINE play this team could have put up more points, with a BETTER OC in the first 6 games this team could have been .500. Under Davidson, Frye was 3-4 with a 77 rating. There's your 7-9 or 8-8 record.
I don't think I've ever said better OL play wouldn't help. That's why I'm still trying to figure out why I was called the epitome of blaming everything on the QB.
Anyway, just because our line play was below average doesn't mean you can't atleast partially evaluate the QB. You point to his record and rating with Davidson as a positive but Chuck still had just 4 TD's and 7 INT's through that stretch of games. DA also finsihed off the win against KC that Chuck is getting credit for. His QB rating is receiving a big boost from his completion percentage alone (down the stretch), which obviously isn't all that relevant if you don't protect the football or put it in the endzone. It looks nice on it's own but it's a pretty hollow stat when you look at his other numbers. I'm not saying completing passes isn't important but when you do nothing else well, it hardly holds a lot of weight in an argument.
I'm sure Chuck will look much better with an improved line in front of him but will that change how jittery he is in the pocket, even when he has protection? Will it stop him from throwing across his body on the run? Across the field in to coverage? Or off his back foot? Protection helps but Chuck also displayed a plethora of bad habbits throughout the entire year. Maybe that's a direct correlation to the offensive line or maybe it's just that he just doesn't have it? I havn't thrown him under the bus but at the same time I don't think he should be handed the starting job. He might look better behind the new line but Quinn might look even better. I guess I don't buy in to the notion that Frye needs to keep the seat warm for Quinn for a season and maybe you disagree with that. If Quinn is better, I personally think he should play. If they're close, I would prefer he sits and Chuck gets a chance to show what he has behind a better offensive unit.
4 of those ints came vs. Cincy. 1 a Hail Mary down by 17, 2 others down by 24 and the 4th 3 minutes left down by 30 on 4th down from our own 12. There's 4 of your 7 ints. I get the latter part of what you are saying. I'm just so tired of people picking games out that they conveniently forgot the story on. Yes, I "gave" Frye the KC win. He left 11-13 with 1 TD and 0 ints and the game was tied. If we were down, I wouldn't give him credit for it. He also ended the game with a bteer rating than Anderson. Frye showed drastic improvement under a different OC. I have no problems with Quinn as our future QB, I'm just tired of people blaming the QB for everything. After I gave you the "refresher" of the games you mentioned, you can't possibly tell me those losses were on the QB-- they were on the TEAM, 3 of them on the OC's horrendous calls and wrong protections for the entire game.
Anyone notice how my defending of Frye and Couch are the same? We finally did something right and got an anchor for the o-line. It all starts with protection.
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Please all you have to do is watch the games..U know that as well as anyone..
If I could link every freaking play it would take a WHOLE DAY AND I'm not doing that even if I could.
Things do stick out to me but U tend to shield your eyes from it..
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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j/c...
Can we all just agree on this?... The O-Line sucked. Charlie Frye sucked. They both sucked! lol.
No. But we can probably all agree that the O-line SHOULD be better. Therefore Charlie Frye SHOULD be better. And if he's not, it's time for a story about a man named Brady!
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786
All Pro
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All Pro
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Posts: 786 |
The way i see it. A good part of our struggles last year was not Charlies fault. A good part was. This year..we have a Qb who is more talented and prolly at this point as much ready to play as CF is and if all things are a push...START THE ROOK. He has more upside and talent. That is undeniable IMO. IF Savage and Co. feel Brady can do as good as CF out of the box....he will go with Goldon Boy i feel like.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Seriously, if Charlie vs. Brady is a 'PUSH' come September 9th, you do not start the rook. You have him sit behind the veteran QB who has played in the NFL against our bitter division rival. When it's painfully obvious that it is no longer a push, THEN you start the rook.
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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The way i see it. A good part of our struggles last year was not Charlies fault. A good part was.
Like I said, the O-Line sucked, and Charlie sucked! lol.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
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Seriously, if Charlie vs. Brady is a 'PUSH' come September 9th, you do not start the rook. You have him sit behind the veteran QB who has played in the NFL against our bitter division rival. When it's painfully obvious that it is no longer a push, THEN you start the rook.
I completely agree with this.
Furthermore... from a Brees/Rivers viewpoint we will want to let Charlie showcase himself behind a good line with a running game. His trade value, should we choose to trade him, can only go up because it's pretty much zero right now.
If Charlie isn't getting it done, then you look at why.
If it's something other than Charlie, you leave Charlie in and continue as before. If the problem is Charlie however, then ya make the change and go with the rookie.
Give Charlie a chance to prove himself, increase his value and if nothing else.. if things don't work out long term here, he gets to put together an auditionn tape for other teams that might hopefully net us a draft pick equivalent to what we spent on him (which I might note, is a rarity in this league... you almost never get a pick worth what you originally spent).
If things DO work out and Charlie is lighting it up... well, that's a damned fine problem to have and we can cross that bridge when we come to it 
Either way, Charlie is the incumbant and Quinn hasn't proven squat to this coaching staff yet.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 373
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 373 |
Cleveland Browns History Career Completion % - Min. 500 Attempts 1. 62.95% - Charlie Frye2. 59.80% - Tim Couch 3. 58.83% - Bernie Kosar 4. 57.92% - Vinny Testaverde 5. 57.89% - Milt Plum Highest Completion Percentage Season1. 64.73% - Otto Graham (1953) 2. 64.29% - Charlie Frye (2006)3. 63.91% - Kelly Holcomb (2003) 4. 63.72% - Tim Couch (2000) 5. 62.15% - Bernie Kosar (1991) Lowest Interception Percentage - Career - Min. 500 Attempts 1. 2.57% - Bernie Kosar 2. 3.60% - Milt Plum 3. 3.72% - Vinny Testaverde 4. 3.91% - Tim Couch 5. 4.14% - Charlie FryeBut most of you are right. Frye is the most inaccurate passer in the history of the Browns. Frye also throws INTs way more often than anyone else you guys have ever seen. The problem has not been the QB's since 1999, yet we've gone through them faster than the seconds can tick off a clock.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,207
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,207 |
Well,you can do one of two things.................... Dwell on the past untill hell freezes over........................ Or embrace the future................................ You seem to have chosen the former. For me? I'll take the latter of the two.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
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Let Charlie take the abuse he's already used to
bro ... BQ got pounded way more in each of his first two years at ND in 11 or 12 games then Charlie and whoever else played QB did last year in 16 ...
BQ's TOUGH AS NAILS .. not that I want to see him thrown to the wolves ... but he can take a lickin and keep on tickin ...
as for the guys that are sticking up for Charlie (and i have no clue why they are .. he did all he could given his circumstances ... ) ther just myopic ... soup and menza are ... well soup and menza .. same with Daman .. they can spin it any way they want ... when u compare the two QB's ... BQ IS FAR SUPERIOR .. i mean .... well here's the comarision ..
Height = about the same ...
Arm Strength = BQ IN A LANDSLIDE ...
Accuracy = BQ IN A LANDSLIDE ..
Brains = BQ IN A LANDSLIDE ..
Mobility = Frye .. but by not as much as most think ..
Work Ethic = BQ ... and only reason its not by a landslide is because Charlie seems to work his as off ...
Leadership = BQ has the "it" they all talk about .. only reason this isn't a landslide is because they say Frye is a good leader ... while i am sure Charlie is a good leader .. the more TALENT U HAVE the better LEADER U ARE .. people follow TALENT ...
Charlie did all he could .. and deserves to be treated with respect .. its not his fault he doesn't have the skill set to be a starting QB on and NFL team .. u cant fualt him or his OC or OL for that ..
this is all a moot point .. (and people making the Brees/Rivers comparisions are delirious ... Frye cou'dn tcarry Drew's jock .. ) ... and there will be no QB controversy ...
BECAUSE WE HAVE A LEGITE NFL QB NOW ..
let menza and soup drown in their despair .. i know i will .. *L*
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