DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Pediatrician refuses to treat baby with lesbian parents and there’s nothing illegal about it

Yes, religion is a behavior. Tell, people you're a Christian at a gay bar and see the response you get. You're not going to be welcome 90% of the time. that is their right IMHO. I have no problems with that.

Two women coming into a place and saying,"Hey, we're lesbians!" is flat out throwing their sexual behavior in your face. The only reason they need to mention it is because they are seeking approval or acceptance for their lewd and perverted relationship.

Lewd: sexual in an offensive or rude way
Perverted: 1) having or showing sexual desires that are considered not normal or acceptable. 2)not considered normal or acceptable

What is normal? Homosexual couples are not even 1% of world population. It is still generally only acceptable in countries with a falling moral scale. It is however a growing population with almost an 80% increase in the last 10 years. To be accepted when a sinful activity is made legal and people don't have to feel they need to restrain themselves anymore.

Ask the romans what happened to their society when they decided to turn themselves over to sexual orgies and any other behavior they wanted. Well you can't because they got destroyed ...

When you let your base animal instincts rule you then you are no more than an animal. When as a society you choose to act like animal instead of holding yourself above your animal instincts your society is doomed to fail. History has proven that over and over again. Can you really call yourself an intelligent being if you can't learn from history?

The bible says the wages of sin is death. Yet it is not God who will destroy you. The consequences of your actions are enough to bring about your own suffering. If you lie to people you wont be trusted. If you commit adultery you will destroy your family and lead them into a dangerous life full of emotional destruction that can end up in violence and possibly death. If you kill people then chances are someone else will end up killing you. If you don't honor your mother and father then when you have children chances are they will eventually treat you the same. the 10 commandments are there for a reason. They are there to make you live a safer and healthier life both physically and spiritually.

If you keep what goes on in your bedroom private then it's your own business in my eyes. You start broadcasting it to the public then your asking to be judged for it. You should not then be surprised when they do and should not be upset when they judge you poorly. That goes for homo or hetero. A man or woman starts bragging about sexual conquests then they should not be surprised when they are looked as like they are a slut. Don't want to be judged? Keep your sexual appetites private.

Ah, this must be the crux of your basis: the collectivist mentality. There is no such thing as "the nation's money" or the "nation's economy". You make it sound like it is a privilege to participate in based on someone else's permission. The wealth that I amass, belongs to no one else. Just because it might be a $5 bill printed in U.S. currency in my wallet does not mean that you have some kind of right to it because it 'belongs to the nation'. Subsequently my participation in the economy is mine as well, whether I consume/purchase/barter for goods or services, or provide goods and services. I just bought a candy bar at the BP in NC. Someone in CA has no part or ownership of that.

You can't have a free society by forcing people to succumb to your subjective morality. Those concepts are polar opposites. At some point we have to accept and allow for the fact that we will find other people objectionable for whatever reasons. But there is a difference between being unfairly discriminated against and being offended.

Personally I think it's pretty crappy this Dr. refused to provide care for the baby. It's a friggin baby for crying out loud! (pardon the pun :p)

religion has some of the most barbaric and archaic rules out there.

christians are constantly trying to throw their religious behavior in peoples face, example abound on this very board. yet you have no problem doing that. then turn around and cry when gays seem to do the same thing.

the hypocrisy of you religious nuts is amazing.

I don't think the Romans are a good illustration of your point.. I mean, the Roman Empire lasted around a thousand years and controlled vast amounts of the known world. It absolutely was morally corrupt, even by today's standards. But it was also a society that had a much less regard for life than we do today, with rampant slavery and gladiatorial games. I'm not aware of any revolts because of orgies, but the Empire managed to weather more than a couple slave rebellions (most notably one led by Spartacus) and stay intact.

I'm sorry but I think there is more evidence that the downfall of the Romans was due to politics, homicidal maniac Caesars, and outside forces instead of the local whorehouse.

The Greeks were also known to be pretty promiscuous, yet they were around for awhile and managed to provide great leaps in science and philosophy despite Spartan warriors having sex with other men.

Since he's all about twisting facts. The Roman Empire only fell after they accepted Christ as a state sanctioned religion. You could also saw the darkest times Europe has ever seen was the Dark Ages where Christianity was wide spread. So it stands to reason that believing in Christ = Bad.

There's plenty of gay folk with Christian beliefs. Not everyone who's a "true Christian" is heterosexual. My guess is whoever was randomly spoken to with, "I'm a Christian" would feel the conversation was semi-awkward, say, "Cool", and dance on.



Haha, where to start with this? I'm sure the vast majority of lesbians make it priority to blurt that out as soon as they walk through the door. I'm beginning to think you don't travel, read, or get out much. Most people just live who they are and don't feel the need for senseless declaration or to seek approval from strangers. Just the people closest to them in their lives.



What would be normal- well, let's go with something more valuable like consistent also- would be to be as focused on the perversity of heterosexual folks, too. Do you ask them if they have sex in any position other than the missionary position because you're old school catholic and that would be strictly forbidden? Sodomy laws remained active for quite awhile. I'm sure the doctor also feels it's necessary to screen couples for serious intel, such as if they engage in oral or anal sex or not.

That doesn't happen, though.



I wouldn't say, "Everywhere but developed, better educated countries don't tolerate it," is a good selling point for discrimination. Quite the opposite really.



I'm sure the overly expansive borders (becoming too difficult to defend and maintain), issues with their water, economic trouble (too dependent on slave labor and overspending in the military), inability to recruit enough soldiers, political corruption, etc. played a tiny role in Rome's fall compared to their engaging in orgies.



This is some epic rambling. Satisfying sexual needs (whether or not the purpose is reproductive), eating (no matter to what extent), seeking emotional connection, fighting each other for resources, etc. are base animal instincts. How much time have you spent denouncing the atrocities taking place in wars, or tearing into the gluttony problem in America? You're just railing against a sexual orientation (notice I used that over preference) and its relation to "animalistic behavior" while ignoring a slew of other far more damaging behaviors. And what clear cut lesson do those of such less intelligence not see from history? Because your vague reference to the fall of the Roman empire didn't intelligently demonstrate a point.



More epic rambling. Those are legitimate vices which lead to negative consequences for other parties. What does that have to do with the LGBT community?





You speak as if you're getting a DirecTV channel into a gay bedroom. Be honest. What you really want is for anyone who's gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender to just stay in the closet and pretend they don't exist. That's a far unhealthier behavior than your limited views of improper sexual function. When the right to marry is won, and the discrimination is not allowed to take place anymore, you still won't have a direct view into their bedrooms. Any visuals or angered obsessions you have over that would be your own demons at that point.

I wonder what people would do if a Dr. refused to care for them if they had ever been divorced, had an affair or anything that was considered sinful in the Bible. Why is it this one, single sin seems to be the exception?

Didn't realize my opinion had a crux, but if that's a good thing thanks.

If there's no such thing as "nation's money" then I'm going to go print my own.

I'm not sure if participating in our economy is a privilege but I'm pretty sure there are laws regulating discrimination and if you want to exchange services for money with the backing of our government then you may as well assume you're participating in the nation's economy.

Engaging in discrimination has little to do with you keeping your money. Nobody's saying your money belongs to everybody or California has a right to your Almond Joys. The point is the legality of denying someone's money for your services if those same services are provided to others who are the same except for a characteristic you've discriminated as undeserving of your service.

I'm not sure what you're saying, "there is a difference between being unfairly discriminated against and being offended". If I'm wrong forgive me, but it seems you're saying someone can't discriminate because they're offended and I agree. If you meant that you can't claim discrimination because you're offended by someone's judgement of you and the different treatment justified by that judgement then I disagree.

Maybe the baby is cryin' out loud because it's crappy!

I'm on a forum that is meant for discussion. The topic is a moral and possibly legal one. I didn't go into your place of business and throw my behaviors or beliefs at anyone.

My country was founded on Christian laws and principles so yes I wish for it to remain that way and not turn into a morally bankrupt society that is doomed to fall apart.

This is quite ironic, but perhaps not quite in the way you intended. This is especially true for many who call themselves Christians, but then ignore what the Bible says about certain things, as if to say, "I am a Christian, and I believe Jesus Christ, and in the Bible .... except for all of the parts I don't ....."

So Razor, maybe there should be a questionnaire at every Christian business something like this.......

1. Did you ever have pre-marital sex in your life and not repent?

2. Have you ever cheated on your spouse and didn't repent?

3. Have you ever been divorced for any reason other than adultery?

4. Have you ever lusted and didn't repent?

If you answered yes to any of the above questions, my business refuses to serve you based upon my moral religious beliefs.

Sure sounds like what you are saying. Or is it "just the gays"?

Originally when the Roman Empire was starting out their people had very strong family units and the laws they made protected those families at all costs. As they gained in power and wealth as a nation the people became decadent, indulgent, and lazy. They changed their laws to make it easier for divorce and other harmful things. As a result their society changed. Those strong family ties that held them together fell apart and the spoiled people of the central empire became a leech upon the outer empire. The outer empire which needed support instead got sucked dry and invaders took it from there.

The key pivotal point in their destruction was the falling apart of their core family values. They didn't have to be Christian values to be good family values. The roman Wife while she could not really be a landowner per say could have immense political power and a cheating husband could find himself dead. He had to care for and cherish his family. When they stopped enforcing those laws and indeed abolished them because the rulers(caesars) wanted to be viewed as a God and do whatever they wanted to including the seducing of their general's wives.

Not so different from the so called new age of humanism. We don't have a God. We are our own god. So, now we should be able to do anything we want and who are you to tell us otherwise. It's not anything different or new than what the Romans went through. It is the first signs of a country's impending doom.

The Roman empire is a perfect example of what happens when the family core is destroyed in a society.

Nope.

A deist is much different than a modern day Christian. Also, here's a treaty we once signed which talks about this issue.



The funky F characters are actually S. This is an official document signed by our government which establishes we're not founded on Christian values. These are actual facts and not opinions. It comes from The Treaty of Tripoli.

guess Razor has to move now. He's been living in a sinful country this entire time. I hear the middle east, or some of these eastern european countries would love to have you, bro.

you could even apply for the Vatican. I'll write you a letter of recommendation.

He was talking about the Puritans. You know, the ones who burnt people accused of being witches at the stake. Then found out later they weren't witches at all and said. "My bad."

This is kind of my point in this. But from a different angle, that as much as I can pick and choose what doctor to visit, a doctor can choose to refuse me as a patient.

We are not talking an emergency situation, we are talking about a pediatric visit, one in which the moms researched doctors they wanted to use and probably some they did not want to use, and by the same token, a doctor in a private practice has the right to refuse seeing patients.

Again, this was not an ER visit where the child's life was in danger.

you mean the same puritans who use the bible as the reasoning blacks were dark skinned because they were cursed by god, and thus to be enslaved?

man...those pesky christians.

Then there are those Christians who really don't thirst for the truth. They just regurgitate what they have been spoon fed by the other Christians who hold the same distaste and bigotry for certain groups of people. They cling to an ancient book written by men and translated from ancient languages by men. They don't seek an evolving relationship with God. They don't really want to know the truth as they will have to let go of their near obsessive distaste and dislike of people they so want to burn in hell. They also call themselves Christians, but do not act in any way like what they pretend to be.

I think you most often see this with people who have troubles in their own life and things are very difficult for them. You often also see it in people who are trying to drown out their own latent desires. Whatever reason, they can't see past their own hatred of either others or themselves. It's sad really.

Amazing, ain't it?

WOW talk about horribly twisting facts! There was no one religion of the Roman empire. They just allowed them to exist without murdering them. The rulers were definitely NOT christian at ALL. The only real exception was Constantine who did finally bring some stability back for a while and brought the empire to its greatest point before it then fell apart again after he died.

Ironically it was the barbarians that wiped out the north and the muslims to the south and the east that finished them off.

The brief appearance of Christianity was not long enough to save a ship that had been sinking for hundreds of years.

Also ironic is that one of the things that led to the northern empire falling apart was when they allowed open immigration by the Germanic tribes and then granted citizenship to the dubious citizen who had no real loyalty to Rome and eventually sided with the german invaders providing an army already inside their borders.

Nice one =)

To me a practising Homosexual is a lot like the Devil still calling himself an angel even though he is fallen. Both have the same thing in store for them even though both might believe in God. It's the disobedience to God that is the Sin that leads to the lake of fire.

I rest my case. You can almost feel the joy and glee oozing out of these two loving Christians at the thought of another human burning in Hell. It's palpable. Good times for them!!

Cause, you know, they are the chosen ones. Only their brand of Christianity is right. Even other Christians suck! Hahahaha.

you know whats crazy jules.

the ONLY reason christianity isn't a political system here in the US is because the founding fathers knew better.

because it absolutely was back in the day in Europe. Remember, they collected taxes and made the laws.

if Christianity was a political system here in the US, not only would all of us be oppressed, we'd be the middle east version of the West: different christian spinoffs(baptist, avangelical, etc) bombing each other over power.

smh.

The Bible says it's a sin, but it also says that a lot of other things people do routinely are sins. My problem is not that people say that homosexuality is a sin, as I do believe that the Bible says that it is, but that people somehow single homosexuality out, and place it in its own special category, as if it is somehow a worse sin that any other. The Bible says that all sin offends God, and that means everything from murder to stealing jelly packets from a restaurant. Those who are in Christ still sin, but as I understand the Bible the difference is that they try to overcome their sins, rather than looking for justification of their sins. Their attempt to overcome their sins is not a solo adventure, but rather a surrender t God's will, and it is not a requirement leading to salvation, but rather something that happens as a result of our repentance, and faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that this is the message of 1 John 3: 2-8. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Does this mean that we don't sin? Of course not. However, I do think that it means that our sins should be the "inadvertent" kind, where we just screw up, as opposed to those where we make a conscious decision to violate God's laws. (Like a man who is constantly cheating on his wife, or someone who cheats and/or robs from others on a regular basis, and so on)

Either way its your business and its your choice. The only exception to that law are publically traded companies. Privately held ones do not have the same restrictions. The day you put your company up for public stock sales is the day you sign away your company's freedom for the sake of money. That is the law as it currently stands.

Most good doctors often refuse to have patients. They have more patients than they can handle with sometimes very long waiting lists of people wishing to have them for a doctor. They refuse service ALL the time and for ALL kind of reasons up to and including them just not liking you. If they are in an area that prohibits that they will just make sure they can't schedule you in when you need to see them. "Were sorry sir or madam but the earliest we can see you will be in 3 months from now. Would you like to make an appointment?" To which you will most likely say nevermind. Then if you say yes and they schedule you in you will face, "We're sorry mam but the doctor had to perform a minor surgery today and it went over. We can reschedule you 2 months from now. Would you like to make that appointment?"

It happens all the time. It's almost more amazing that so many of you would even care about this particular case of it. My mother was turned away from several doctors because she was on disability insurance. So I am more than used to seeing a doctor turn away people. I am certainly not going to pity someone because they got refused due to their physician not looking them for personal reasons.

Actually I have stated many, many times that I have very little use for religion. I have a strong faith in God but i have no use for these country club churches that do not follow the teachings of the bible and instead conform to what is convenient to get along with society that is becoming more and more sinful.

I have also stated that there is no Hell. Sinners will not burn for all eternity in fire. They will be cast into the Lake of Fire where you will be utterly and totally erased from existence. I personally take no joy from knowing most people in this world will not have eternal life when they die but simply cease to exist. The only ones happy about that will be atheist because they will gain what they wish for.

Actually, I have to wonder if there isn't a hell, only not the hell we all think of as far as it being eternal punishment. The Bible says that the repentant sinner, who accepts Christ as his Savior, will be taken to a place of comfort, awaiting the 2nd coming of Jesus. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus was told by Jesus Himself, and so the more I consider it, the more weight I give it. He spoke of the rich man, who ignored the suffering of the leper, being tormented. The man begged to be allowed to warn his sons, implying that there was still live on earth for whom it was not too late, which would further imply that the final judgment had not yet happened.

I am leaning towards a belief that there is a hell, a place of punishment for the unrepentant unbeliever, but not that it is an eternal place. (as the Bible says, in Revelation, that hell will be thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed)

Anyway, I am still studying this, because aI do not want to tell anyone something that is not 100% Biblically supported. My view on this may change as I continue my studies, and gain more information regarding the original meanings of words and such.

thats boring.

sounds like you guys are gonna have a lot of waiting around to do.

i rather be reincarnated like the buddhist believe. sounds way better.

NO! One of you has been quite enough!

I don't agree in pointing out just one sin over another. One needs to try and live without sinning. Still this is a discussion about why a doctor refused to have a homosexual "family" as part of her limited list of patients so that is why we are talking about it here.

Hell, outside of this forum I don't care enough about people in general to bother to discuss it and just keep it to myself. I simply don't need the aggravation of dealing with people hell bent on their own destruction. If someone asks about something or starts a conversation about it with me then I am happy to oblige. Of course most people start those conversation comfortable with their excuses to sin. When you provide scripture that shows their excuse are useless they don't really like it because now they have no more excuse and are force to either change or continue to sin knowing they are damning themselves.

People REALLY love their excuse to sin almost, as much as, they love to sin itself.

I just can't stand reading total nonsense and constant misinterpretations of the Bible and using one person's sin to justify even more sinning. I definitely don't agree with telling people their sinful lives are ok and that there is nothing wrong with it. I hold the churches more responsible for being too cowardly to preach what the bible says and instead telling the lost what they want to hear far more than I blame a sinner who is lost and needs help to find their way.

To be clear, I don't hate people who practice homosexuality. I just refuse to accept their sinful lifestyle. I sincerely try not to hate anyone if I can help it.

What part do you find boring?

The saved, upon death, are taken to a place of joy and comfort. When Jesus returns to the earth on His 2nd coming, they then receive their new, eternal and perfect bodies, and enter into heaven, which is just that, eternal happiness and love, and communion with god.

The unsaved person, as I believe from my studies so far, goes from this life into punishment. The penalty for the sins of the unsaved are extracted from the unsaved person. They pay the price for their sins. They suffer untold torment as a result. I am not sure, but the saved are joined with their new, "glorious" bodies when Jesus returns, and I wonder what happens to the unsaved. Are they rejoined with their ruined, rotted mortal bodies, and then discarded like the garbage? The unsaved go to a place translated often as hell, but which was originally "Gehenna" in the original texts. This was a trash dump outside the city, where the trash burned day and night, and where the unclaimed bodies of executed criminals would also wind up. That is why I make that comparison. However, I suppose that we'll all find out what happens after this life when the time comes. My belief is that the Bible is true, and as such, I know which side I want to wind up on, and where I want to wind up.

There will never be enough.

cause we don't die and do any cool stop like fight demons or something. lol i bet if y'all started promising that, you'd have sooo many more people converting to christians. That be bad ass. I'd actually go out of my way to learn the bible and be some type of warrior.

but sense that ain't the case, sorry.

And that's the wonderful thing .... God gave us all free will, so we can decide for ourselves. When the time comes, we each get the reward or penalty we desired and earned by virtue of our decision to either follow Christ, or not.

The biggest fight is one happening right now. You're in a war to save yourself from oblivion. The only way to win it is to give up your sin and accept the sacrifice Christ made to save you from it and then life a life trying not to sin anymore. that is the hardest fight that will ever happen in your existence. Most of the world will fail.

anyways peace I am exhausted =P

BAM! Right on the mark! Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's cuz the whole world matters not!

It seems to me that the base of this thread's disconnect stems from one line of demarcation:

One group believes that sexual orientation is a choice. The other believes that sexual orientation is determined by biology.

Belief #1 allows its proponents to easily see this 'lifestyle' as an aberration, an abomination.

Belief #2 allows its proponents to easily see this 'lifestyle' as a natural manifestation of who they've been since birth.

I personally subscribe to Belief #2. I've known gays and lesbians since Jr High, and witnessed their attractions from the onset of puberty. As I began lusting after Susan Huffman and Karen Kincaid, one of my friends began lusting after Timmy Thomas, my neighbor and captain of the varsity BB team. Neither of us had any control over who we found attractive- we just developed that way.

Another friend ironically had a thing for Sue, as well. We busted each other staring at her in the cafeteria (that girl was stunning). She was mortified. I was asked- no, BEGGED to keep both friends' secrets. Until we graduated, I think I was the only one they trusted enough to come out to.

In both cases, these young people didn't CHOOSE a thing... and they lived in abject terror of being discovered. No one chooses to live his/her life under those conditions. That fear that hung over their heads: judgement and recrimination from society at large... including some of the most pious people in town and even leaders in the clergy.

Two members of my own family struggled for years with their identities before coming out. I'm thankful that my family found it in their hearts to continue loving them both. For some, it required work, time and effort. For me, it was never really an issue. People are who they are.



Others can believe what the Bible tells them, I won't argue with them; I know what I've seen in Real Life.


.02

I think at the end of the day this Doctor will not feel any lasting negative effects of her choice, I feel she is legally entitled to make. Societies attention span is to short for any lasting boycott by those that are outraged by her choice.

Life has shown me, when you have two sides, the truth is in the middle. Everybody is bisexual, but there is to much to lose if we embrace that truth.