DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 What If Jamis Winston ...

If he's a sociopath, he probably has a high IQ. I have no idea if that's the case, but the allegations he's faced point to a disregard for other people, the laws & norms of society, and the consequences of his behavior. On the other hand he might just be a spoiled retard with a high sense of entitlement. Or last, he might just be a really immature 22 year old that needs to grow up. I sure don't know, but that's why you meet with these players, right? The question remains whether the Browns FO has the ability to make an accurate assessment of their potential draftees' personality flaws. So far you'd have to say they don't.

what have we won with golden boys like Thomas, Mack, Jackson, and Cribbs?

thats right, nothing. same with the character concern guys, but atleast they have talent to give us hope, and even be close/make the playoffs.

K2, and BE, had our best season since 99. 10-6.
Green ran the ball well enough to help us get into the playoffs at 9-7. Run Willie Run.
West this season helped our run game amass 16 rushing TD's. as well as Crow
Ward has not only been a pro bowl safety on our team, he was this season with the broncos as well. as a STARTER, not an alternate, as well as all pro honors.

notice a trend? our SKILL position players with character concerns helped us have the best seasons/highlights since the browns came back in 99.

Hell, you can throw Cribbs/harrision in the mix since people were crying about them wanting higher contracts and such. the infamous Pay Da Man campaign.

So i'll ask you: what have we won with high character guys?

the "win the draft" award?

We need Souljas.

You are turning things around. I never said we needed to draft choir boys. You acted like that is all we have drafted. That is simply not true.

Guys like Gordon, Manziel, and Gilbert have been worse for this franchise than guys like Joe Thomas, Mack, and DQ. Not sure how you can't see that.

how? for media circus? sure.

but for W-L records, ya know, what actually MATTERS, how many times has Thomas, mack and DQ lead us to the playoffs?

I'm not saying we need bad boys. but the character concerns is something every nfl team has to deal with. that some posters want to avoid that is living in a fantasy. sometimes the best players have character concerns, sometimes the best doesn't. thats my point.

What?

How did Giblert, Gordon, and Manziel help us make the playoffs, or even win games?

I never said we should draft choir boys. NEVER! But, you are making it so black and white.

I do think it would be a bad idea to take Winston, especially since it is so close to having drafted Manziel, and to a lesser extent---Gilbert and Gordon.

I know this is not scientific proof, but Winston's eyes freak me out. He reminds me of a sociopath. It would be very risky to draft him. Can you imagine the backlash if he were to doing something awful----especially since we took Manziel last year?

AT this point, I hate the idea of Jameis, can't pay for his drink, or his crab legs, so much; that

I'd rather Connor Shaw start 16 games, I'd rather A lineman or a Defensive back start 16 games at Qb than the idea of investing in another case of that kind of risk.

It's only one more year of suckage until the 2016 draft, why should the Browns waste the next 3 years with the mistake of that kind of a pick.

I don't want to see Jameis Winston in a Browns uniform, and I don't care if he turns into the next Steve Young, I still don't want to see him on the Browns.

they didn't. at all. but Gordon's talent is undeniable, thats whyANY team he's on is willing to do deal with a head case like that, because the HOPE that they can turn it around and be absolute monsters on the field, like gordon was in 2013.

and:

sometimes the best players have character concerns, sometimes the best doesn't. thats my point.

^^^^ did you not read that part of my post? thats not black and white. thats saying there's a lot of grey area, and sometimes teams have to make the decision on if their character concerns outweighs their talent.

you think if AP wasn't the best RB in the league that the vikings would still have him on the roster?

the bottom line is to win games and make the playoffs, hopefully the SB.

Take what bet?

New Reply. Just reading through the first page,

I don't understand the concept that him available at 12 would be a drop in the draft.

From what I gather, I don't see why any team in the NFL would consider this guy in the top 100.

And I've probably never been against a draft pick as much as I hope the Browns stay away from this guy.. in my memory.

But this goes for anybody on the planet. If you at any time in your past, ordered a water at a fast food place and poured a soda, and stayed around in defiance long enough for the police to make a freaking report,

( and maybe it didn't happen that way, but I can't imagine that if he just walked out of the building that anything would have become of that,)

I can only imagine that it would have to go down, like you'd have to stand around saying this aint soda, for like 3 minutes for the cops to be called, and then another 5 minutes for them to show up, and then, you'd have to tell the cop off for them to make a freaking report.
So if anybody on the planet wants to do that, then I don't want to root for the team that would take you to be their quarterback.
It's not that you have to be a choir boy. Randy Moss wasn't a choir boy, Michael Irvin wasn't, but they'd both have the sense to walk out of the fast food restaurant before they made a freaking report.

If this guy is still available at the end of the 3rd rd, he hasn't fallen, at all in my book. I wouldn't consider that at 12, maybe 112.

Besides, its not smart to give up on the qb they just took last year so quickly. I'd prefer this approach.
Make the completely unfounded assumption that you have the next Andrew luck already on your team, and draft players that you'd put around him, like the #1 TE, the #1 Wr, the #1 LT, the pass catching Rb, and then sometime in the next 2 and a half years turn that into an actual "next Andrew Luck" and you'll already have the pieces around him.

Actually Swish, when this thread started, I advocated taking Winston if he fell to #12. But I have had a change of heart about that. And it's actually not about Winston at all. It's about the environment in Cleveland.

There are established organizations who can take a player with problems and have mentors for players and a coaching staff that can help mold that player and deal with his issues. Who can get the most out of those type of players.

Cleveland can't. So far they've failed pretty miserably at helping players with issues overcome them. Now I'm not trying to blame this FO or coaching staff for the issues players have, but if you look at players like Chris Carter, you see that some teams are much better at dealing with players who have issues. It seems they can help their direction and get the most out of them. Cleveland isn't the place that can do that.

Just heard on the radio that Winston ran 4.97 in the 40. Mariota ran 4.52. FWIW ...

see, i GET that perspective. That we aren't equipped to handle troubled players. These posters haven't made that point. it's simply because he's a troubled player, not because maybe our coaches/FO simply don't know how to handle those kind of players.

it's just....now look. people trying to say anything to rag on the guy. He's on something cause of his eyes? he looks like a psycopath? jesus....

Winston is the best QB to come out in the last 3 years. With no off the field issues he would be seen as a sure fire can't miss prospect.

He has the talent and ability to be a franchise QB and lead a team to a Super Bowl.

That is why he will be the #1 pick in the draft.

Put me on the record. Winston will end up in jail for the rest of his life for something violent he has done or will do again. I will flat out call him evil. When i watched that interview he clearly showed the body language and attitude of someone who has committed violence and feels no remorse or even that he did something wrong. Those eyes don't lie and I have seen that look once too many times in my life not to know it when I see it. Some people are just born with a broken moral compass and my gut tells me he is one of them.

I can't prove it and it's just my opinion. I don't make any claims to scientific proof BUT my gut instincts are seldom wrong about people and he just screams out to me as a violent sociopath wanting to explode.

If he's a sociopath, he probably has a high IQ. I have no idea if that's the case, but the allegations he's faced point to a disregard for other people, the laws & norms of society, and the consequences of his behavior.

Every fiber of my being says this is the case with this young man.

I made that exact point in my initial post on Winston as one of a multitude of reason to stay away from Winston.

at 19 I would consider him

Though, articles of him showing up out of shape, weak arm issues came up yesterday, and a 4.97 40 added to his off the field issues would still make me hesitant

I honestly don't know anything about the background information but his body language in that simple interview set all my internal alarm bells off. I watched it again to make sure I was not over acting and they went off even worse to the point I felt a sense of dread. I know that he is not the person I want on the Browns.

He might be smart enough to know that if he performs poorly it might save him from being drafted by the worst team in the league and have a better future.

Wow! If this message boards were around 50 years ago many of you would not want to touch Jim Brown with a ten foot pole. He has had multiple off the field issues in his life but he was an incredible football player.

Winston is a tremendous talent, good arm, good footwork, can make all the throws, shows touch on the ball, with a high IQ, good student, and someone who is football intelligent. He was accused of a terrible crime but ultimately found innocent of the charges. He did a few other dumb things but nothing that would indicate he is a serial criminal.

If not for the off the field issues he would be talked about like Andrew Luck as a sure fire franchise QB. That is why he will be the #1 pick in this draft. Heck, if he would have came out last year he would have been the #1 player in that draft which was considered much stronger than this year.

I stopped posting on these boards because of the BS but I have to break thru just to say; Day of the Dawg, I finally agree with you on something.

If you want to win, trade up to get Winston regardless what it takes. You want to keep losing, hang your hat on this character crap and watch Tampa become a perennial playoff team.

This is not accurate.

A woman reported being raped, able to describe but didn't know the man. She later recognized him when she saw him in one of her classes. Someone (lawyer, police?) convinced her not to press forward with the charges because of who he is. Then the incident became known to the media 11 months later and questions were asked. Winston had a story and witnesses saying it was consensual. An official investigation found the conflicting stories too muddled to bring official charges. THIS IS NOT the same as being found innocent. The woman insists to this day Winston raped her.

A 4.97, dang, crabs can run faster..

Just Say No.

He probably paid her off. Not him but sombody. Yeah Swish he is a great guy. I'm sure he didn't shave points either. Jamies Winston the victim......Right

I would risk not taking him. The sideshow from last season tells us some issues matter on the field. I don't think he will drop far. Some team desperate enough will feel forced to roll the dice. I would rather we use our firsts and load up for a change.

I don't know he was clearly high on something in that one interview. he was fine again for the combine. That's just stupid. he is going to have problems with the microscope the NFL puts its players under.

I don't think he is a serial killer but I firmly believe he has caused violence on someone and got away with it. I believe he will do it again because he feels he is above the law. maybe he is more like Rapesburger than you think ... I don't need a choir boy but I do need someone I am not disgusted to know is on the team.

I watched the Combine today and the guy surely can throw the ball.

I feel dirty after reading this.

Nobody would give a rat's ass about what Johnny did on his own time or if he does or doesn't need substance abuse assistance, if he had played well.

I still question whether or not it was his choice to check in or not. I hope it was his own as the first step to that type of recovery is admitting you have a problem.

As far as Winston goes. He's talented. He may be a dope when he's out in public, but on the field, he's so damn smart. Everyone will look at his fumble in the Oregon game as some sort of Sanchez moment, but it was one play in a game that his teammates had already let him down numerous times.

He's big, he's strong, he's thick, and he can throw the damn thing. Everyone, both fans and media keep talking about some BS culture that needs to be built. That kind of talk only happens because you aren't winning. You can't have a "culture" of winning if you aren't actually winning. You don't build some group of guys just think "aww gee shucks, we'll get 'em next time guys" over the course of a few years, and then start expecting W's. This team struggles, and has struggled for 15 years because of below average, well below avearage, bad, and putrid QB play.

We have enough guys on this team who have great leadership qualities, and who have voices that will register with younger players (Thomas, Mack, Haden, Whitner, Dansby, Kruger, Hawkins, etc.)

Guys like Gordon who have blown numerous chances will never get it. Maybe Manziel goes down that route, maybe he doesn't.

I think the Browns should explore Jameis. They have to be absolutely sure he can play though. The other stuff you can deal with if he can play.

I love Mariota as a prospect, but just as I said with Johnny, I will say with Mariota. Those guys need to be developed further to really play meaningful snaps.

Johnny played 5 quarters last year, but he played 5 extremely important quarters. Season-deciding quarters. I believe he was the captain of an already sinking ship, but still, he didn't play well, and while his personal issues probably have some effect, he NEEDS to be developed as a QB.

I believe Jameis Winston needs less of that. You can learn on the fly with him.

For Mariota's case, I hope to God for him that he falls a bit and ends up on a team that doesn't want or need him to play. He could use a full year and 2 training camps to learn the NFL. All the stuff that will be different. Coverages, throwing from the pocket, taking the ball under center. Just like Manziel, it will all be new to Mariota. He may be able to get away with a bit more becase of his size, but I think he will have his struggles.

j/c....

On the football side of Winston, here is good video of Mariucci quizzing Winston on a particular red zone play on the white board.

video

He looks great in that video. I don't think anyone ever doubted his football IQ or anything related to his football ability. Hell I myself have championed him for a while now.

But man he sure looked different the other day when he was high or something during that interview. It was like he was completely different in personality. to me that sends up a LOT of red flags.

Can the boy play some football? Hell yes, and at a high level to boot.

Will he be able stay out of trouble? I honestly feel he won't. I sincerely hope the young man proves me wrong. I would love it in fact if he fell to us for some reason and we ended up with him. I just hope its someone else's worry to deal with and not the Browns.

First, I would question why he fell so far. What do others know that I do not know about his off field issues? Who was taken before him? Was another QB taken other than Mariota? Who did the Browns sign as a FA? What are my thoughts about Johnny Football as my future QB? All questions I would need answered.

Secondly, I think I answer my phone because I am sure someone is calling with a trade offer. What is that offer? If we get a first in 2015, 2016 and an additional pick in 2015, I consider trading.

I liked the big tall QB that threw at the combine. Petty was talked about highly at the combine as well. Risk versus reward? If the reward is an additional first round pick and say a 2nd or third round pick? Reward is too high to pick him, IMHO.

I'm gonna puke if we trade out of our pick AGAIN.

This team needs to stop with the trade back/stock up garbage. I know we all love our draft picks, but my god this team needs to stop thinking about the following year and instead the one that sits in front of them.

unless TB feels that glennon is worth the risk of handing over the starting spot this season. then that changes a lot.

Honestly, i think we need to just sit at 12/19, and if winston falls, we grab it.

Tab, i'm tired of "winning" the draft with picks every year, and these guys end up being bums come the regular season. there has to be a point where we take the BPA at whatever slot we are picking at in the 1st round.