DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Will Reportedly Attempt To Trade For Rams QB Sam Bradford

same story different year. If I was STL I'd trade Bradford for a 3rd round pick. He hasn't had a healthy season in years and he never was going to be elite.

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/9776/where-bradford-ranks-among-nfl-qbs



Where Bradford ranks among NFL QBs


EARTH CITY, Mo. -- The short period of the offseason in which NFL teams are between the end of organized team activities and the beginning of training camp leaves a little bit of a void for league-related content. It's a time when lists and rankings become commonplace. And during that time when I was away on vacation, there was at least one list that was really well done by our own Mike Sando.

Sando spent a good chunk of time talking to NFL coaches and executives in an effort to get a closer look at how all 32 NFL starting quarterbacks are viewed by those making the decisions. For those of you with ESPN Insider who might have missed it, you can read Sando's quarterback tiers story here.

[+] EnlargeSam Bradford
AP Photo/Eric GaySam Bradford is hard for analysts to gauge because he has missed so many games in his short career.
For the project, Sando talked to 26 league insiders about the various signal-callers. The idea was to put the players into a one through 32 ranking but also to get a feel for how big the gap is between the guys who might be close to 32 and those who might be near the top. The "tiering" system made clear, for instance, that superstars like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are not only a certain amount of spots ahead of guys like Cam Newton but NFL types actually view them a full two tiers above him. When finished, the quarterbacks were ranked from 1 to 32 with five tiers in place.

It should come as no surprise that St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford didn't place among the top tier or even the second after four mostly unremarkable years, but it's also clear that there are some in the league who still believe in Bradford's potential.

Bradford ended up in a tie with Arizona's Carson Palmer as the No. 21 quarterback in the league, which was still good enough for a soft landing in tier 3. Of the 26 votes cast, Bradford received 20 tier 3 votes, two tier 2 votes, three tier 4 votes and one tier 5 vote.

It's hard to argue with the results given that even four years into his career, nobody really knows who Bradford is as a player. Some of the comments from the part about Bradford made that much clear.

An excerpt from Sando:

"Just about everyone placed Bradford in the third tier, almost as a hedge. They thought he had the talent to be a solid two, if only he could stay on the field."

The last part has obviously been perhaps the biggest reason that Bradford remains a mystery to league personnel. He missed six games in 2011 because of a high ankle sprain, an injury that hampered him for most of that season even when he did play. And Bradford missed nine more games in 2013 because of a torn ACL.

Adding to that, Bradford has also worked with a questionable receiving corps, a sometimes shaky and banged-up offensive line and had three different coordinators in as many seasons to start his career. That's not to say he hasn't had his own struggles in those four years, just that those are some of the reasons given as to why Bradford is a bit of an enigma to league personnel.

Those are also some of the same reasons touched on by Ron Jaworski, who recently revealed his annual quarterback rankings and placed Bradford a few spots below the league executives. Jaworski has Bradford at No. 24 in his rankings with this as part of the explanation:

"Bradford has always been an enigma to me. I loved him coming out of Oklahoma, but he's always been injured. With a big arm, he can make every throw even though he lacks mobility; he just hasn't developed the consistency needed from an elite quarterback, and he doesn't excel when the pocket isn't clean."

If the Rams gain nothing else from the 2014 season, it's time to finally turn the many questions into answers when it comes to Bradford.

Average gets us in the playoffs in 2014.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000205545/article/top-10-quarterbacks-25-or-under-sam-bradford


This is the age of the young quarterback. Buoyed by the draft class of 2012, we have a surplus of promising young signal-callers. Around The League and "NFL Total Access" will count down the top 10 quarterbacks 25 or under we'd want leading our franchise.
Top 10 quarterbacks 25 or under
Buoyed by the draft class of 2012, the NFL has a surplus of promising young passers. Around the League counted down the top 10 QBs 25 years old or under.

» No. 10: Josh Freeman
» No. 9: Andy Dalton
» No. 8: Sam Bradford
» No. 7: Ryan Tannehill
» No. 6: Matthew Stafford
» No. 5: Russell Wilson
» No. 4: Cam Newton
» No. 3: Colin Kaepernick
» No. 2: Robert Griffin III
-» No. 1: Andrew Luck
No. 8: Sam Bradford, St. Louis Rams

Why he's here

Bradford was the No. 1 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft for a reason. (Well, other than the fact the St. Louis Rams badly needed a quarterback and the next QB drafted that year was Tim Tebow.) Bradford came out of Oklahoma known for his accuracy, NFL arm and smarts. After three years and 42 starts, Bradford as a pro is tougher to define.

Evaluating Bradford was harder than any quarterback on this list because of the lack of players around him and his offensive system in 2012. Bradford has played for three dramatically different offenses in three seasons. Blaming the surrounding talent often is a cheap excuse because you can isolate quarterback play, but Bradford's supporting cast often masked solid performances.

The arm strength is still there. And despite the Rams' often frustrating station-to-station offense under coordinator Brian Schottenheimer, Bradford enjoyed his best season in 2012. The play below is a nice example of Bradford's ability to throw on the move and use his natural velocity.

Bradford threw 21 touchdown passes and 13 interceptions last season, dramatically raising his yards per attempt average to 6.7. You had to squint, but there was real progress in 2012. Just not enough to satisfy many Rams fans.
Why he's not higher

It's fair to say Bradford has not elevated the play of those around him. In 2011 especially, he appeared shell-shocked because of all the pressure he saw. Early pressure often was a problem last season, but timing with his young receiver crew was the bigger issue. The Rams did not have receivers who could win against press man coverage, which especially killed them on third downs. Even when his receivers won, Bradford often threw behind them on slant routes.

Perhaps Bradford's biggest issue is the toughest to evaluate for an outsider. Greg Cosell of NFL Films would call it "seeing the field clearly." On plays Bradford got the right protection and what he wanted out of the coverage, he often hesitated. This led to dump-off passes when the play design called for more. The first play in the package below is an example of what I mean:

The Rams rely on option routes, which require Bradford and his receiver to be on the same page. I saw a ton of broken-off routes and passes to nowhere. Bradford and his young wideouts, especially the promising Chris Givens, often saw the field differently. The second play above illustrates that. This is understandable in a new offense, but it's something Bradford must overcome this year.

All of the different systems and numerous hits appear to have slowed down Bradford's processing. Hopefully a second year in Schottenheimer's system speeds things up.
Bradford's floor

The talking point around Bradford this season says it's a make-or-break year. His salary explodes in 2014, but I still don't buy the argument. Even if Bradford stagnated, are the Rams really going to give up on him now with everything they have invested? They passed on Robert Griffin III for him.

The only scenario where Bradford isn't a Ram next year would be if the team bottoms out and the Rams falls in love with a rookie quarterback. That's hard to imagine. The Rams have a dynamic defensive roster that will keep them in almost every game. And Bradford showed signs of emerging last season. He made a ton of huge plays in both contests against the San Francisco 49ers, saving his best throws for when the game was on the line. He also showed far better pocket toughness than I expected over the course of the season.

Bradford delivered a lot of very good passes just before getting smacked around last year. His receivers didn't always make the catch, but Bradford didn't flinch. He stood tall and showed he can deliver with bodies around him. Bradford's going to be an NFL starter for a long time. I'd be surprised if that didn't play out primarily in St. Louis.
Bradford's five-year ceiling

The Rams' defense and coaching staff will give Bradford a chance to start winning playoff games sooner than later. But there's also no denying he's well behind in his development compared to players who reach elite status. Most established top-10 quarterbacks showed more by this point in their career.

Bradford seems to be just missing something, but it's hard to put a finger on what that something is. He's often at his best in the 2-minute drill and when he lets the ball rip on a double move like the touchdown to Chris Givens, shown to the right.

A career like another former No. 1 overall pick who finally emerged -- Alex Smith -- wouldn't be a shock. I think Bradford has an equal chance to raise his game to an Eli Manning-like level where he's always only one crazy playoff run away from immortality.

http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/01/13/nfl-future-qb-rankings/

25. NY Jets NY’s owner still believes in Geno Smith, 24. He had a bad year but finished strong against Miami.
26. Arizona Carson Palmer, 35, still has talent. But it’s not likely he stays healthy in the long run.
27. Washington RGIII, 24, will probably be the QB next year but long term is questionable. It’s a hot mess in DC.
28. Tennessee Titans supposedly like rookie Zach Mettenberger enough to not draft a QB at No. 2. We’ll see.
29. Houston Ryan Fitzpatrick? Ryan Mallett? Tom Savage? Who knows. They should’ve drafted Bridgewater.
30. St. Louis Sam Bradford, 27, will compete for the job. That’s how much the former No. 1 pick has fallen.
31. Cleveland Johnny Manziel looks like a giant bust but Browns will probably give him a year to prove himself.
32. Buffalo EJ Manuel, 24, is not the answer for Buffalo. And Rex Ryan doesn’t have a good history with QBs.




The 2010 class is led by Sam Bradford, who may not even be a starting quarterback next season.

http://cover32.com/rams/2015/02/18/st-louis-rams-qb-sam-bradford-destroyed-in-latest-qb-rankings/

St. Louis Rams QB Sam Bradford destroyed in latest QB rankings

Quarterback is the most important position in all of sports. That’s why teams are so willing to pony up big bucks to a signal caller when they have (or think they have) a guy who can do the job. One look at the highest paid players in the NFL will support this fact; it’s a list littered with QBs.

If the mega-contract is given to a player who is actually worthy of big money, it’s okay; while the dollars limit what a team can do in other areas, the benefit of having a great quarterback is fair trade off. But if the huge dollars end up being tied to a guy who isn’t up to the task, it becomes a drain on the organization, hamstringing their ability to improve.

Thus, the key equation for every team in the league becomes simple: They have to get good value at the quarterback position.

With that as a backdrop, the 32 current starters in the NFL were evaluated based on their salary cap figure for 2015. It made for an interesting list on cover32′s main page.


Free Agents: The top-10 wide receivers on the market

QB Rankings: Rating today’s starters from 1-32 based on their cap value

How did St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford fare?

Very bad. He checked in at No. 32 on the list. Here’s what writer Dean Gomes said about the signal caller:

“Essentially, the Rams have been paying Bradford to hold a clipboard. He can’t stay healthy, which makes the $16.58 million he’ll count toward the cap in 2015 just a huge drag on the franchise. Again.”

Gomes is exactly right. Bradford has been given every opportunity to prove his worth, and he’s failed every time. Unfortunately for Rams fans, it looks like he’s going to be given another opportunity this season.

and average QB play likely won't even get us 5 wins in 2015.

How is our team worse than last year? Theoretically it will be the same or better.

The only argument I can see is that DeFilippo is significantly worse than Shanahan.

This article is from 3 days ago now... Just in case no one posted it already:

Browns reportedly like QB Sam Bradford, but Jeff Fisher debunks trade rumors: 'We're counting on him'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/rams_jeff_fisher_debunks_sam_b.html

So it looks like no Sam Bradford to the Browns... (?)...

I'll disagree with most and give a first rounder if I had to...we need a qb so bad.

I hate the thought of waiting yet another year

If we have a strong free agency and can sign 4 or 5 quality guys (not necessarily the elite ones, but the second tier) then I would have no problem giving up the #19 overall pick for Bradford. Having him would be an instant upgrade to the QB spot and he's still young enough and talented enough to be a franchise guy.

Sure he's an injury risk, but hell any damn QB we have is an injury risk. ANYONE can take a shot to one of the knees and get hurt. Upgrade the offensive line and WR core and he could be REALLY productive.

Bradford showed some very nice flashes of greatness in St. Louis and that was behind a TERRIBLE offensive line and with TERRIBLE wide receivers....

Trading a first round pick for a QB who has never been consistently above-average, is coming off two torn ACLs (to the same knee), and has only one year left on his contract would be Farmer's worst move ever. And this is the guy who just drafted two players in the first round who look like total busts.

What a horrible idea.

How has his protection been in St. Louie? Is part of the reason he's been so injury plagued due to a less than stellar line?

What are you basing your opinion of Bradford being more than an above-average QB on? He has never been more than that, in the NFL, on a consistent basis (above-average is generous). Wouldn't you say that most players are what they are going to be at age 28? If Sam Bradford were an elite QB, he would have done it by now.

Bradford has shown flashes of being elite, to no fault of his own though the Rams have not been able to provide him with adequate protection or receivers. When healthy he's been productive.

What do we have going for us at QB in Cleveland? Absolutely nothing.

If we can trade for Bradford, we absolutely have to.

He's a risk, sure, but going into the season with Johnny and Shaw would be an even bigger risk.

I can agree with trading for Bradford, just not with a 1st rnd pick. I would think a 3rd would be worth it as he has the talent, but also a nagging injury history. His oline has been an Achilles heel for him in StL. I'd have to think our oline will help make him more comfortable and possibly elevate his game play.

Did you see how he tore his knee up against us?

The DL touched him, and let go. He didn't spin him around, or brutally pull him to the ground. (or pull him to the ground at all) He bumped into him, and Bradford fell to the ground with another torn knee ligament. It was scary, because nothing really happened to him on the field, and he was out for the season.

Fixed it for you...

Flashes being what, seven games? That is much too small a sample to call someone elite.

For example, Brian Hoyer through our first seven games in 2014. 57% completion rate, 8 TDs, 2 INTs, 7.86 yards per attempt, and a QB rating of 91.

Bradford's seven game "elite" stretch looks like this:

60%, 14 TDs, 4 INTs, 6.44 yards per attempt, QB rating of 90.9.



This excuse is never used with other "elite" QBs.



By what standard?

Let's compare some QBs on a per game basis (some of these QBs have started more games than Bradford, some have started less. Obviously one of them is Bradford.):

QB A: 60.3% completion, 0.75 TDs per game, 0.69 INTs, 6.6 yards per attempt, 10.9 yards per completion, 165 yards per game, QB rating of 78.2
QB B: 58.6% completion, 1.2 TDs per game, 0.77 INTs, 6.3 yards per attempt, 10.7 yards per completion, 226 yards per game, QB rating of 79.3
QB C: 56.3% completion, 1.1 TDs per game, 1.1 INTs, 6.7 yards per attempt, 11.8 yards per completion, 204 yards per game, QB rating of 74.1
QB D: 59.8% completion, 1 TD per game, 0.94 INTs per game, 6.3 yards per attempt, 10.5 yards per completion, 175 yards per game, QB rating of 75.9
QB E: 57.5% completion, 0.9 TDs per game, 0.73 INTs per game, 7.0 yards per attempt, 12.2 yards per completion, 165.6 yards per game, QB rating of 79.0

Hint #1: All but one of these QBs was taken in the top 12 of the draft.
Hint #2: QB E is the youngest of the five QBs, followed by D, B, A, then C.
Hint #3: All of these QBs are free agents besides one.
Hint #4: Only one of these QBs has ever been to playoffs.
Hint #5: One of the above QBs is a former Cleveland Brown starting QB.

Answers at then end of this post.



Desperation is never a good reason to overpay for something. Especially, as shown above, there are other options that are nearly as good or as good.



If the price is right, yes.



No one is advocating that we don't do anything at QB. There is a 0% chance our only two QBs on the roster going into the season are Manziel and Shaw.

(QB A: Colt McCoy, QB B: Sam Bradford, QB C: Mark Sanchez, QB D: Christian Ponder, QB E: Jake Locker)

I think you are basing what you know about Bradford on what he was in college. That was 2009 (a season in which he only played three games due to injury).

I like Bradford. I think he can be an above-average QB. If he is available and the price is right, I think we should try and get him. He is by no means a sure thing.

I am sorry you are offended. I stand by my statement based on the fact that Bradford has been average (at best) throughout his NFL career. I don't know what you are seeing if you think his college skills have translated to the NFL.

But you can't dispute what eo' was saying solely on statistics...

Right. Which is why is argument is flawed. If what he is saying about Bradford is true, there would be no discussion about trading for him, the Rams would have already signed him to an extension, and we would be lucky to trade both of our first rounders for him.

I trust statistics and the league over some random dude's judgment.

Adding Bradford's last nine games in 2012 to his seven games in 2013 would only make Bradford's numbers worse, are you sure you want me to do that?

Okay, I will do it, but only because you asked nicely.

Bradford's completion rate between the above stated time spans was 60%, he had 28 TDs, 11 INTs, a QB rating of 87.1, a yards per attempt average of 6.4, and 237 yards per game.

For some context I compared those numbers to the 2014 stats of QBs who actually played a regular season game (something Bradford failed to do):

Out of 33 qualified players Bradford would have been 26th in completion percentage, tied for 10th in TDs, tied for 19th in INTs, 20th in QB rating, 32nd in yards per pass attempt, and 18th in yards per game.

Those numbers are decidedly average to above-average. Which is exactly what I have claimed Bradford was all along.

I agree with you that with average QB play we would have made the playoffs in 2014.

I never intended to insult you and I am sorry that you feel that I did. You are obviously passionate about this subject, I think that is clouding your judgment on what I am saying. I will refrain from responding to you in the future so that I don't hurt your feelings any further, but if I do I will try to make the statistics easier for you to understand.

A healthy Sam Bradford is better than anything we've had in a while... this is where I get hung up in the argument, not is he better than what we've had, but is he good enough to get us where we want to go. I think he is, if (and it's a big IF) he can stay on the field.

Indeed it would be. But you don't give up first round picks for average. You sign them as free agents when their teams cut them.

Bradford is due 13 mil and his contract is done. He would become a free agent after one year, he will not be a Brown.

The Browns 2015 schedule breaks down this way:

Home:

Tennessee 2-14
San Francisco 8-8
Oakland 3-13
Denver* 12-4
Arizona*11-5
Pittsburgh*11-5
Cincinnati*10-5-1
Baltimore*10-6

Away:

New York Jets 4-12
San Diego 9-7
Kansas City 9-7
Seattle* 12-4
St. Louis 6-10
Pittsburgh* 11-5
Cincinnati*10-5-1
Baltimore* 10-6

12 out of 16 games are against people in the playoffs/winning records.

6-10 is a real possibility with our team improving.
*Team made playoffs in 2014.

I was being a little over dramatic wasn't I??
I would give the Rams one of our first round picks. But, as has been said at nauseam, this is Bradford's last year on his contract and HE would leave us ASAP.

Got it. The schedule was my guess as to how you thought our record would regress (that rhymes!).

6 of those are against teams in our own division... first we have to start beating those teams.